Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation as a dependable, mission-critical RDBMS. One of its benefit is that it’s Open Source, ie, license free. You can install it on as many servers as you want, with any number of CPUs, for any number of users, no charge.

A few years back, VSI released the Postgres client on VMS, and we at Sector7 worked with them to expand a few limitations for handling large schemas. We used our automated tool to transform the SQLMODs into equivalent procedures that access Postgres instead of Rdb. The argument list for the procedures was the exact same as the SQLMODs, so the application programs did not need any modification. Just link the executables with Postgres library and the converted procedures and run the program as before.

The Postgres server runs on Linux, and the application access the Postgres database over the network. We used this technology to migrate IKEA’s store application that runs on OpenVMS on a server at every store around the world, to access a new Postgres server in every store. The application remained on OpenVMS and the Rdb service could be stopped, returning a bunch of cycles back to the application.

This was all using Open Source Postgres and the Open Source client, supported by VSI, on OpenVMS. The application got a performance improvement, and in certain cases, a sizable improvement and best of all, now that the application data is in Postgres, it can be accessed by a multitude of tools and apps on various platforms. The application running on OpenVMS is no longer an island in the enterprise.

On 2023-02-24, Denys Beauchemin <denysftr@gmail.com> wrote:
> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation as a
> dependable, mission-critical RDBMS. One of its benefit is that it?s Open
> Source, ie, license free. You can install it on as many servers as you want,
> with any number of CPUs, for any number of users, no charge.
>

Well, that's a load of bollocks.

Open Source software is not the same thing as licence-free software
and the vast majority of it _is_ released under a licence.

I hope you have more respect for Open Source software elsewhere than
that if you use any of it in your own software.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Den 2023-02-24 kl. 22:13, skrev Simon Clubley:
> On 2023-02-24, Denys Beauchemin <denysftr@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation as a
>> dependable, mission-critical RDBMS. One of its benefit is that it?s Open
>> Source, ie, license free. You can install it on as many servers as you want,
>> with any number of CPUs, for any number of users, no charge.
>>
>
> Well, that's a load of bollocks.
>
> Open Source software is not the same thing as licence-free software
> and the vast majority of it _is_ released under a licence.
>
> I hope you have more respect for Open Source software elsewhere than
> that if you use any of it in your own software.
>
> Simon.
>

I would not say "loads of bollocks".
I'm sure anyone understand that it meant "a license with no cost"...
And we all know that OSS normaly comes with some kind of license.

Anyway...

Not all applications using Rdb are using SQLMOD.

On 2/24/2023 5:33 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2023-02-24 kl. 22:13, skrev Simon Clubley:
>> On 2023-02-24, Denys Beauchemin <denysftr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation
>>> as a
>>> dependable, mission-critical RDBMS.  One of its benefit is that it?s
>>> Open
>>> Source, ie, license free.  You can install it on as many servers as
>>> you want,
>>> with any number of CPUs, for any number of users, no charge.
>>
>> Well, that's a load of bollocks.
>>
>> Open Source software is not the same thing as licence-free software
>> and the vast majority of it _is_ released under a licence.
>>
>> I hope you have more respect for Open Source software elsewhere than
>> that if you use any of it in your own software.
>
> I would not say "loads of bollocks".
> I'm sure anyone understand that it meant "a license with no cost"...

I did not even notice it.

I just read "license-fee-free" instead of "license-free".

> And we all know that OSS normaly comes with some kind of license.

And PostgreSQL comes under its own license - a permissive
license similar to BSD and MIT licenses.

> Not all applications using Rdb are using SQLMOD.

Some use embedded SQL.

Some use JDBC.

Maybe there are even some that are using the SQL Services
API.

Arne

On 2/24/2023 2:44 PM, Denys Beauchemin wrote:
> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation
> as a dependable, mission-critical RDBMS. One of its benefit is that
> it’s Open Source, ie, license free. You can install it on as many
> servers as you want, with any number of CPUs, for any number of
> users, no charge.

The cost is right.

:-)

And PostgreSQL has excellent support from cloud vendors as
managed service, which matters today.

> The Postgres server runs on Linux, and the application access the
> Postgres database over the network. We used this technology to
> migrate IKEA’s store application that runs on OpenVMS on a server at
> every store around the world, to access a new Postgres server in
> every store. The application remained on OpenVMS and the Rdb service
> could be stopped, returning a bunch of cycles back to the
> application.

If PostgreSQL has been available (production ready) for VMS,
then the database could have stayed on VMS.

> This was all using Open Source Postgres and the Open Source client,
> supported by VSI, on OpenVMS. The application got a performance
> improvement, and in certain cases, a sizable improvement and best of
> all, now that the application data is in Postgres, it can be accessed
> by a multitude of tools and apps on various platforms. The
> application running on OpenVMS is no longer an island in the
> enterprise.

Rdb on VMS is very much accessible from tools and apps
on various platforms.

Oracle provide:
* ODBC driver
* JDBC driver
* ADO.NET provider
* SQL Services C API

That covers most use cases.

Arne

Den 2023-02-25 kl. 00:29, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
> On 2/24/2023 5:33 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2023-02-24 kl. 22:13, skrev Simon Clubley:
>>> On 2023-02-24, Denys Beauchemin <denysftr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation as a
>>>> dependable, mission-critical RDBMS.  One of its benefit is that it?s Open
>>>> Source, ie, license free.  You can install it on as many servers as you
>>>> want,
>>>> with any number of CPUs, for any number of users, no charge.
>>>
>>> Well, that's a load of bollocks.
>>>
>>> Open Source software is not the same thing as licence-free software
>>> and the vast majority of it _is_ released under a licence.
>>>
>>> I hope you have more respect for Open Source software elsewhere than
>>> that if you use any of it in your own software.
>>
>> I would not say "loads of bollocks".
>> I'm sure anyone understand that it meant "a license with no cost"...
>
> I did not even notice it.
>
> I just read "license-fee-free" instead of "license-free".
>
>> And we all know that OSS normaly comes with some kind of license.
>
> And PostgreSQL comes under its own license - a permissive
> license similar to BSD and MIT licenses.
>
>> Not all applications using Rdb are using SQLMOD.
>
> Some use embedded SQL.
>
> Some use JDBC.
>
> Maybe there are even some that are using the SQL Services
> API.

Any Windows application using ODBC is normally using SQL/Services.

We have a couple of VB6/ODBC applicatiuons that are now evaluated
for replacement. Will probably be a web frontend and Python backend
connected through WASD.

>
> Arne
>
>

Den 2023-02-25 kl. 00:34, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
> On 2/24/2023 2:44 PM, Denys Beauchemin wrote:
>> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation
>> as a dependable, mission-critical RDBMS.  One of its benefit is that
>> it’s Open Source, ie, license free.  You can install it on as many
>> servers as you want, with any number of CPUs, for any number of
>> users, no charge.
>
> The cost is right.
>
> :-)
>
> And PostgreSQL has excellent support from cloud vendors as
> managed service, which matters today.
>
>> The Postgres server runs on Linux, and the application access the
>> Postgres database over the network.  We used this technology to
>> migrate IKEA’s store application that runs on OpenVMS on a server at
>> every store around the world, to access a new Postgres server in
>> every store. The application remained on OpenVMS and the Rdb service
>> could be stopped, returning a bunch of cycles back to the
>> application.
>
> If PostgreSQL has been available (production ready) for VMS,
> then the database could have stayed on VMS.
>
>> This was all using Open Source Postgres and the Open Source client,
>> supported by VSI, on OpenVMS.  The application got a performance
>> improvement, and in certain cases, a sizable improvement and best of
>> all, now that the application data is in Postgres, it can be accessed
>> by a multitude of tools and apps on various platforms.  The
>> application running on OpenVMS is no longer an island in the
>> enterprise.
>
> Rdb on VMS is very much accessible from tools and apps
> on various platforms.
>
> Oracle provide:
> * ODBC driver
> * JDBC driver
> * ADO.NET provider
> * SQL Services C API
>

And OCI, which makes an Rdb DB to look like a Oracle DBMS DB
to the application.

> That covers most use cases.
>
> Arne
>
>
>

On 2/25/2023 7:18 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2023-02-25 kl. 00:34, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>> On 2/24/2023 2:44 PM, Denys Beauchemin wrote:
>>> This was all using Open Source Postgres and the Open Source client,
>>> supported by VSI, on OpenVMS.  The application got a performance
>>> improvement, and in certain cases, a sizable improvement and best of
>>> all, now that the application data is in Postgres, it can be accessed
>>> by a multitude of tools and apps on various platforms.  The
>>> application running on OpenVMS is no longer an island in the
>>> enterprise.
>>
>> Rdb on VMS is very much accessible from tools and apps
>> on various platforms.
>>
>> Oracle provide:
>> * ODBC driver
>> * JDBC driver
>> * ADO.NET provider
>> * SQL Services C API
>
> And OCI, which makes an Rdb DB to look like a Oracle DBMS DB
> to the application.

That is another C API. I am aware of it.

But I chose to mention SQL Services over OCI, because
I can get SQL Services to work on Windows and Linux,
but not OCI. Must likely that is due to my lack of
experience with OCI, but ...

Arne

On 2023-02-24, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:
> Den 2023-02-24 kl. 22:13, skrev Simon Clubley:
>> On 2023-02-24, Denys Beauchemin <denysftr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation as a
>>> dependable, mission-critical RDBMS. One of its benefit is that it?s Open
>>> Source, ie, license free. You can install it on as many servers as you want,
>>> with any number of CPUs, for any number of users, no charge.
>>>
>>
>> Well, that's a load of bollocks.
>>
>> Open Source software is not the same thing as licence-free software
>> and the vast majority of it _is_ released under a licence.
>>
>> I hope you have more respect for Open Source software elsewhere than
>> that if you use any of it in your own software.
>>
>> Simon.
>>
>
> I would not say "loads of bollocks".

I would, Jan-Erik.

> I'm sure anyone understand that it meant "a license with no cost"...
> And we all know that OSS normaly comes with some kind of license.
>

Unfortunately, there really are some people who seem to think that when
something is Open Source, then that means they can do whatever they want
with it.

I hope the OP isn't one of them, but that's how the above comes across,
especially when you have seen people express those opinions in the past.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Den 2023-02-27 kl. 01:28, skrev Simon Clubley:
> On 2023-02-24, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:
>> Den 2023-02-24 kl. 22:13, skrev Simon Clubley:
>>> On 2023-02-24, Denys Beauchemin <denysftr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Over the last several years, Postgres has acquired a solid reputation as a
>>>> dependable, mission-critical RDBMS. One of its benefit is that it?s Open
>>>> Source, ie, license free. You can install it on as many servers as you want,
>>>> with any number of CPUs, for any number of users, no charge.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, that's a load of bollocks.
>>>
>>> Open Source software is not the same thing as licence-free software
>>> and the vast majority of it _is_ released under a licence.
>>>
>>> I hope you have more respect for Open Source software elsewhere than
>>> that if you use any of it in your own software.
>>>
>>> Simon.
>>>
>>
>> I would not say "loads of bollocks".
>
> I would, Jan-Erik.
>
>> I'm sure anyone understand that it meant "a license with no cost"...
>> And we all know that OSS normaly comes with some kind of license.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, there really are some people who seem to think that when
> something is Open Source, then that means they can do whatever they want
> with it.
>
> I hope the OP isn't one of them, but that's how the above comes across,...

It was quite obvious that what was meant was "with no cost".
And I think that that was how most read it.
You just read too much into it. Cool down...

> especially when you have seen people express those opinions in the past.
>
> Simon.
>

I have used PostgreSQL for some intensive work. It performs well given a good platform to run on. Cannot say anything bad about it.

However, I would be curious to know if Oracle Rdb and related products will get ported to VMS on X86.

Contract I am currently working uses Rdb and CDD. Workspaces all defined in CDD and used in the database definitions, C, DECforms and ACMS. Moving to anything is a political mess.

P

On 3/2/2023 2:11 PM, Paul Gavin wrote:
> I have used PostgreSQL for some intensive work. It performs well
> given a good platform to run on. Cannot say anything bad about it.
>
> However, I would be curious to know if Oracle Rdb and related
> products will get ported to VMS on X86.

Ask Oracle; I work for VSI and cannot speak for Oracle.

--
-- Rob