So today, I decided on another adventure this time freshly installing
the latest 22.04 on my desktop. You may recall last week that I simply
did an upgrade initially from 18.04, but I thought I'd go ahead and try
a fresh install. All proceeded fairly smoothly and then I found that
some of my apps wouldn't work. One even had a message saying that it
wasn't compatible with Wayland and to switch to X11 instead; another
astronomical app wouldn't display correctly as I couldn't see my cursor.
After browsing the net, a suggestion I came across was to simply alter
the config file to force reboot into X11. I was originally going to try
it at log in, but I didn't see any option for selecting anything
present. Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
working now are. However, what's the difference between X11 and Wayland
as I don't see anything visually?

On 9/13/22 18:36, wAYNE wrote:
> <snip> However, what's the difference between X11 and Wayland
> as I don't see anything visually?

And exactly what did your own research say? I mean before you actually
asked in here, surely you did some basic research on your own. What did
that say?

On 9/13/2022 9:36 PM, wAYNE wrote:
> So today, I decided on another adventure this time freshly installing the latest 22.04 on my desktop.  You may recall last week that I simply did an upgrade initially from 18.04, but I thought I'd go ahead and try a fresh install.  All proceeded fairly smoothly and then I found that some of my apps wouldn't work.  One even had a message saying that it wasn't compatible with Wayland and to switch to X11 instead; another astronomical app wouldn't display correctly as I couldn't see my cursor.  After browsing the net, a suggestion I came across was to simply alter the config file to force reboot into X11.  I was originally going to try it at log in, but I didn't see any option for selecting anything present.  Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't working now are.  However, what's the difference between X11 and Wayland as I don't see anything visually?

Wayland is a replacement for X11, and has an X11 compatibility
mode to smooth the transition.

But it's a bit more complicated than that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)

Compare this diagram (which does not admit that X11 exists)...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Wayland_display_server_protocol.svg

with this diagram (which shows how some X11 can run).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/The_Linux_Graphics_Stack_and_glamor.svg

( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29 )

Some day, they will remove XWayland and cut off X11 compatibility. Like a PulseAudio
removing the Alsa-compatibility plugin and causing TVTime to break (my TV set).
So some day, XClock and XEyes won't run.

Paul

Am Dienstag, 13. September 2022, um 21:36:00 Uhr schrieb wAYNE:

> Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
> working now are. However, what's the difference between X11 and
> Wayland as I don't see anything visually?

Wayland is different and causes many problems with certain applications
and desktop environments.
IIRC it also doesn't support window mangers like twm/mwm.

I also use X11 and will use it in future.

Marco Moock wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 13. September 2022, um 21:36:00 Uhr schrieb wAYNE:
>
>> Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
>> working now are. However, what's the difference between X11 and
>> Wayland as I don't see anything visually?
>
> Wayland is different and causes many problems with certain applications
> and desktop environments.
> IIRC it also doesn't support window mangers like twm/mwm.
>
> I also use X11 and will use it in future.
>
+1, but

Wayland FAQ - What is wrong with X?
https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_6

Am Mittwoch, 14. September 2022, um 11:22:02 Uhr schrieb Andrei Z.:

> Wayland FAQ - What is wrong with X?
> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_6

Interesting, thanks fo the link.

Thanks, all. I guess I'll be sticking with X11 for a while,
occasionally switching back to Wayland to check compatibility.

On 9/14/22 01:22, Andrei Z. wrote:
> Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am Dienstag, 13. September 2022, um 21:36:00 Uhr schrieb wAYNE:
>>
>>> Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
>>> working now are.  However, what's the difference between X11 and
>>> Wayland as I don't see anything visually?
>>
>> Wayland is different and causes many problems with certain applications
>> and desktop environments.
>> IIRC it also doesn't support window mangers like twm/mwm.
>>
>> I also use X11 and will use it in future.
>>
> +1, but
>
> Wayland FAQ - What is wrong with X?
> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_6
>
>
There whould be a FAQ on wehat is wrong with Wayland so far.
And a FAQ on why systemd is a bad idea.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

wAYNE wrote:
> what's the difference between X11 and Wayland as I don't see anything
> visually?

My sense of it is...

.... there are a lot of things 'wrong w/' the old X (x11 since 1987),
and, theoretically at least, there should/could be a better way of doing it,

.... *BUT* ...

.... Wayland has been *trying* and trying and trying to get it done since
2008, and considering that it hasn't actually gotten it properly done in
all that time,...

.... there must be 'something wrong' between the theory and the reality.

So, maybe Wayland isn't the 'best' idea after all; but apparently there
isn't an alternative plan in the works. All that seems pretty flakey to me.

--
Mike Easter

On 9/14/22 09:20, Mike Easter wrote:

> So, maybe Wayland isn't the 'best' idea after all; but apparently there
> isn't an alternative plan in the works. All that seems pretty flakey to me.
>

There was an alternative. Ubuntu forked Wayland with Mir to make Unity
nice and smooth. But nobody followed suite so both Mir and Unity died.
Shame. I liked both. and still like Unity now that it's been picked back
up and coming back to the Ubuntu family again.