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computers / news.software.nntp / Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

SubjectAuthor
* How may I install INN w/o Exim?711 Spooky Mart
+* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Russ Allbery
|`* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?711 Spooky Mart
| +* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Russ Allbery
| |`* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?711 Spooky Mart
| | `- Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Russ Allbery
| `* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Grant Taylor
|  `* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?711 Spooky Mart
|   +- Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Grant Taylor
|   `* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Martin Burmester
|    `* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Nigel Reed
|     +* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Russ Allbery
|     |`* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Nigel Reed
|     | `- Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Russ Allbery
|     +* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?711 Spooky Mart
|     |`* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Nigel Reed
|     | `- Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Retro Guy
|     +* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Grant Taylor
|     |`* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Nigel Reed
|     | `* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Grant Taylor
|     |  `* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Nigel Reed
|     |   `- Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?The Doctor
|     `* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Julien ÉLIE
|      `- Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Nigel Reed
+* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Ted Heise
|`- Re: [SOLVED] How may I install INN w/o Exim?711 Spooky Mart
`* Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Nigel Reed
 `- Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?Richard Kettlewell

Pages:12
How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: 711...@spooky.mart (711 Spooky Mart)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:30:45 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: 711 Spooky Mart - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 04:30 UTC

Arch is Debian. Goal is to set up inn to serve some local groups and to
feed with other nntp hosts with a few text groups.

When I try to apt-get install inn or inn2 the package manager wants to
pull down and install exim4. Why does inn need exim packages?

Can I install inn or inn2 without exim4? I really do not want this
mailer on my server as I already have dovecot set up and running and I
don't want to spend a month of Sundays learning the internals of exim.

How may I proceed to install and set up inn without this extra bloat?

As an alternative would there be some other nntp server that fits my
requirements, that does not require studying for a new virtual degree
just to install it?

--
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓── ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃── │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─ │ https://bitmessage.org │ │ open │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─ └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 21:41:33 -0700
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Russ Allbery - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 04:41 UTC

711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:

> Arch is Debian. Goal is to set up inn to serve some local groups and to
> feed with other nntp hosts with a few text groups.

> When I try to apt-get install inn or inn2 the package manager wants to
> pull down and install exim4. Why does inn need exim packages?

INN needs a way to send mail (something providing mail-transport-agent).
exim is just the Debian default. You can pick any other package that
provides mail-transport-agent (apt-cache search mail-transport-agent may
help).

(It has to be able to send mail to submit posts to moderated newsgroups,
and also by default to send you nightly reports.)

If you don't otherwise need a mail transport agent on that system,
nullmailer and ssmtp both try to be as minimal and easy to set up as
possible.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl049o$uqr$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: 711...@spooky.mart (711 Spooky Mart)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:51:23 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: 711 Spooky Mart - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 04:51 UTC

On 10/22/21 11:41 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>
>> Arch is Debian. Goal is to set up inn to serve some local groups and to
>> feed with other nntp hosts with a few text groups.
>
>> When I try to apt-get install inn or inn2 the package manager wants to
>> pull down and install exim4. Why does inn need exim packages?
>
> INN needs a way to send mail (something providing mail-transport-agent).
> exim is just the Debian default. You can pick any other package that
> provides mail-transport-agent (apt-cache search mail-transport-agent may
> help).

Debian dpkg does not give me a choice. It requires the exim4 packages.
And why does inn need to send mail? I thought the nntp servers were
supposed to exchange control messages and feeds only at static IP addresses.

--
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓── ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃── │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─ │ https://bitmessage.org │ │ open │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─ └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<87v91ol2f1.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 22:45:38 -0700
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <87v91ol2f1.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Russ Allbery - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 05:45 UTC

711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
> On 10/22/21 11:41 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:

>> INN needs a way to send mail (something providing
>> mail-transport-agent). exim is just the Debian default. You can pick
>> any other package that provides mail-transport-agent (apt-cache search
>> mail-transport-agent may help).

> Debian dpkg does not give me a choice. It requires the exim4 packages.

Install a different package that provides mail-transport-agent first (or
at the same time) and then it won't do that. The inn2 package depends on
default-mta | mail-transport-agent, so if the dependency isn't already
satisfied, it installs default-mta, which is exim4 on Debian.

> And why does inn need to send mail?

>> (It has to be able to send mail to submit posts to moderated newsgroups,
>> and also by default to send you nightly reports.)

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl08bk$9db$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:54:15 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <sl08bk$9db$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
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 by: Grant Taylor - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 05:54 UTC

On 10/22/21 10:51 PM, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
> And why does inn need to send mail?

I'll argue that INN itself doesn't /need/ an MTA. The INN /package/ on
Debian apparently is configured to require an MTA, even if the
newsmaster will never utilize said MTA. To me that's the fault of the
package maintainer's decisions.

> I thought the nntp servers were supposed to exchange control messages
> and feeds only at static IP addresses.

It can use names which are resolved to IPs as well as UUCP. Neither of
which require static IPs.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl0a7h$k70$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: 711...@spooky.mart (711 Spooky Mart)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 01:32:39 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: 711 Spooky Mart - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 06:32 UTC

On 10/23/21 12:45 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>> On 10/22/21 11:41 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>>> INN needs a way to send mail (something providing
>>> mail-transport-agent). exim is just the Debian default. You can pick
>>> any other package that provides mail-transport-agent (apt-cache search
>>> mail-transport-agent may help).
>
>> Debian dpkg does not give me a choice. It requires the exim4 packages.
>
> Install a different package that provides mail-transport-agent first (or
> at the same time) and then it won't do that. The inn2 package depends on
> default-mta | mail-transport-agent, so if the dependency isn't already
> satisfied, it installs default-mta, which is exim4 on Debian.
>
>> And why does inn need to send mail?
>
>>> (It has to be able to send mail to submit posts to moderated newsgroups,
>>> and also by default to send you nightly reports.)
>

Ah, I think dma or some other barebones mta with a config to locked down
to localhost will be ok. They still shouldn't have a require in the dpkg
manifest. It should just be in suggests.

--
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓── ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃── │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─ │ https://bitmessage.org │ │ open │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─ └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl0ad6$lvm$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: 711...@spooky.mart (711 Spooky Mart)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 01:35:40 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: 711 Spooky Mart - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 06:35 UTC

On 10/23/21 12:54 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 10/22/21 10:51 PM, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
>> And why does inn need to send mail?
>
> I'll argue that INN itself doesn't /need/ an MTA.  The INN /package/ on
> Debian apparently is configured to require an MTA, even if the
> newsmaster will never utilize said MTA.  To me that's the fault of the
> package maintainer's decisions.

Agreed. Bloat is bad.

>> I thought the nntp servers were supposed to exchange control messages
>> and feeds only at static IP addresses.
>
> It can use names which are resolved to IPs as well as UUCP.  Neither of
> which require static IPs.

I see. Do some sysops require a static IP before they will agree to
sync? I presume some just care about the FQDN, then?

--
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓── ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃── │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─ │ https://bitmessage.org │ │ open │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─ └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 01:44:07 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
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 by: Grant Taylor - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 07:44 UTC

On 10/23/21 12:35 AM, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
> Agreed. Bloat is bad.

I agree that the strict requirement for INN is ... sub-optimal.

But I have an MTA on every single Unix system that I administer if for
nothing other than getting emails from cron or the ability to pipe
command output into mail so that I can send myself notes.

Note: Having an MTA does not mean that the system is an email server.

> I see. Do some sysops require a static IP before they will agree to
> sync? I presume some just care about the FQDN, then?

I assume that most news masters will want a static IP. Some news
masters are more flexible and willing to work with peers. I don't
/know/ what the actual ratio is.

I think that INN needs to be kicked in the bits (HUP?) or even restarted
to see names resolve to new IPs.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: mar...@burmester.org (Martin Burmester)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:59:01 +0200
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In-Reply-To: <sl0ad6$lvm$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 by: Martin Burmester - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 12:59 UTC

Hi,

Am 23.10.2021 um 08:35 schrieb 711 Spooky Mart:
>>> I thought the nntp servers were supposed to exchange control messages
>>> and feeds only at static IP addresses.
>> It can use names which are resolved to IPs as well as UUCP.  Neither of
>> which require static IPs.
> I see. Do some sysops require a static IP before they will agree to
> sync? I presume some just care about the FQDN, then?

For peerings using the NNTP protocol people usually require static a IP.
An NNTP peering with a dynamic IP can become unstable if the address
changes.

Peerings using the UUCP protocol works well with dynamic IP addresses,
so this is usually the better choice when dynamic IPs are involved.

Cheers
Martin

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<slrnsn82r0.f41.theise@panix2.panix.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=279&group=news.software.nntp#279

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!.POSTED.panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail
From: the...@panix.com (Ted Heise)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:17:20 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: My own, such as it is
Message-ID: <slrnsn82r0.f41.theise@panix2.panix.com>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:17:20 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader1.panix.com; posting-host="panix2.panix.com:166.84.1.2";
logging-data="3005"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com"
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (NetBSD)
 by: Ted Heise - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:17 UTC

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:30:45 -0500,
711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
> Arch is Debian. Goal is to set up inn to serve some local
> groups and to feed with other nntp hosts with a few text
> groups.

> How may I proceed to install and set up inn without [exim]?
>
> As an alternative would there be some other nntp server that
> fits my requirements, that does not require studying for a new
> virtual degree just to install it?

If you are only wanting a small subset of news, leafnode might
suit your needs.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<87tuh7vj8y.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 08:44:13 -0700
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <87tuh7vj8y.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
<sl049o$uqr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <87v91ol2f1.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
<sl0a7h$k70$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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Cancel-Lock: sha1:m0weR4eoPmPTp7XFtWXDOla+P7E=
 by: Russ Allbery - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 15:44 UTC

711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:

> Ah, I think dma or some other barebones mta with a config to locked down
> to localhost will be ok.

I use msmtp myself (but the host on which inn2 is installed also has
postfix installed for other reasons).

> They still shouldn't have a require in the dpkg manifest. It should just
> be in suggests.

I can see arguments either way, but I'm also not the package maintainer
and therefore don't have to make that decision. :) You could file a bug
against the Debian package and see if you can convince Marco.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: [SOLVED] How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl1ln9$kk3$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: 711...@spooky.mart (711 Spooky Mart)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: [SOLVED] How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:54:55 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sl1ln9$kk3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: 711 Spooky Mart - Sat, 23 Oct 2021 18:54 UTC

On 10/23/21 8:17 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:30:45 -0500,
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> Arch is Debian. Goal is to set up inn to serve some local
>> groups and to feed with other nntp hosts with a few text
>> groups.
>
>> How may I proceed to install and set up inn without [exim]?
>>
>> As an alternative would there be some other nntp server that
>> fits my requirements, that does not require studying for a new
>> virtual degree just to install it?
>
> If you are only wanting a small subset of news, leafnode might
> suit your needs.

I already looked at leafnode. It is nice in concept except one must set
up all their own access controls with Linux primitives (like inetd),
which is quite a lot more work than configuring inn.

In my test container I installed dma first and configured it so the
Internet can never reach it, then inn installed without pulling down a
bucket of exim binaries.

--
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓── ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃── │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─ │ https://bitmessage.org │ │ open │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─ └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<20211024182428.3878fa1f@wibble.sysadmininc.com>

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From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 18:24:28 -0500
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211024182428.3878fa1f@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
<sl049o$uqr$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<sl08bk$9db$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
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X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 by: Nigel Reed - Sun, 24 Oct 2021 23:24 UTC

On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:59:01 +0200
Martin Burmester <martin@burmester.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am 23.10.2021 um 08:35 schrieb 711 Spooky Mart:
> >>> I thought the nntp servers were supposed to exchange control
> >>> messages and feeds only at static IP addresses.
> For peerings using the NNTP protocol people usually require static a
> IP. An NNTP peering with a dynamic IP can become unstable if the
> address changes.
>
> Peerings using the UUCP protocol works well with dynamic IP
> addresses, so this is usually the better choice when dynamic IPs are
> involved.

This issue has just come up for me. I've setup a new innd server and
currently have one peer and I'd like to add a few more non-binary
peers (feel free to contact me), however my ipv4 is dynamic however my
ipv6 is static, but, of course, not everyone has ipv6.

Now, whenever my IP changes, my router instantly updates the DNS via
nsupdate and I have a short ttl on the domain name. Is that likely to
be an issue?

I'd be happy to setup uucp but does anyone use it any more? It's
probably 30 years since I last tinkered with is, so it'll be a learning
process, again.

Thanks,
Nigel

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<87k0i2gd71.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 17:28:34 -0700
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <87k0i2gd71.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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Cancel-Lock: sha1:0l+N6sbQ8h20REypKqgT6DIIH5I=
 by: Russ Allbery - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 00:28 UTC

Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes:

> Now, whenever my IP changes, my router instantly updates the DNS via
> nsupdate and I have a short ttl on the domain name. Is that likely to be
> an issue?

INN hangs on to peer IP addresses for incoming.conf forever. Best
practices (implemented by at least the Debian inn2 package and probably
others) is to periodically reload incoming.conf (such as from cron) to
pick up new IP addresses. Given that, you probably won't have a problem,
although it will vary by peer.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl58lr$1qfo$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: 711...@spooky.mart (711 Spooky Mart)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 22:36:39 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sl58lr$1qfo$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: 711 Spooky Mart - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 03:36 UTC

On 10/24/21 6:24 PM, Nigel Reed wrote:

> I'd be happy to setup uucp but does anyone use it any more? It's
> probably 30 years since I last tinkered with is, so it'll be a learning
> process, again.

I was discussing in another group with a netizen who was posting to
Usenet via a BBS over Fidonet. He told me he was reading our Usenet
thread via a BBS. I think some are still syncing via UUCP. You might
find a couple of BBS sysops willing to sync up.

I still have to solve all of my problems with inn config for my strange
project requirements. Then I'll be in touch about syncing. I have to
make sure everything is perfect and tests out.

--
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓── ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃── │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─ │ https://bitmessage.org │ │ open │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─ └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<20211025000002.59350305@wibble.sysadmininc.com>

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From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 00:00:02 -0500
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211025000002.59350305@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Nigel Reed - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 05:00 UTC

On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 22:36:39 -0500
711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:

> On 10/24/21 6:24 PM, Nigel Reed wrote:
>
> > I'd be happy to setup uucp but does anyone use it any more? It's
> > probably 30 years since I last tinkered with is, so it'll be a
> > learning process, again.
>
> I was discussing in another group with a netizen who was posting to
> Usenet via a BBS over Fidonet. He told me he was reading our Usenet
> thread via a BBS. I think some are still syncing via UUCP. You might
> find a couple of BBS sysops willing to sync up.

There's a couple of ways BBS's are using newsfeeds these days. One of
them is as a fido group that's propagated through the FTN method. This
is what I was using on my BBS until my uplink shut down his news
service account.

With Synchronet, the method I'll be using is to import newsgroups into
an echo group so members can read usenet just like any other echo
group. I dount any of them are using uucp and most of us that are
getting newsfeeds are probably using one of two other sysop's feeds
which is why I want to find some independent ones.
> I still have to solve all of my problems with inn config for my
> strange project requirements. Then I'll be in touch about syncing. I
> have to make sure everything is perfect and tests out.

If you're wanting to peer, I'm fine with that. My feeder didn't have
the original article so I'm not sure what your issue may be.

Thanks,
Nigel

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<20211025000136.6fc822ca@wibble.sysadmininc.com>

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From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 00:01:36 -0500
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211025000136.6fc822ca@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Nigel Reed - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 05:01 UTC

On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 17:28:34 -0700
Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:

> INN hangs on to peer IP addresses for incoming.conf forever. Best
> practices (implemented by at least the Debian inn2 package and
> probably others) is to periodically reload incoming.conf (such as
> from cron) to pick up new IP addresses. Given that, you probably
> won't have a problem, although it will vary by peer.

Ah, if it's cached that it will eventually be an issue. My ip only
changes after an extended outage, but it could still happen at any
time. I doubt any news admin is going to want to make changes to
accommodate me. As I said, my ipv6 is static so I can, and do right
now, peer with ipv6 enabled sites.

Thanks,
Nigel

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: retro....@rocksolidbbs.com (Retro Guy)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 05:14:44 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <345e351235fa33311a82706899f70d6a@news.novabbs.com>
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 by: Retro Guy - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 05:14 UTC

Nigel Reed wrote:

> There's a couple of ways BBS's are using newsfeeds these days. One of
> them is as a fido group that's propagated through the FTN method. This
> is what I was using on my BBS until my uplink shut down his news
> service account.

> With Synchronet, the method I'll be using is to import newsgroups into
> an echo group so members can read usenet just like any other echo
> group. I dount any of them are using uucp and most of us that are
> getting newsfeeds are probably using one of two other sysop's feeds
> which is why I want to find some independent ones.

Yes, Synchronet provides a nntp gateway which makes it reasonably simple:
http://wiki.synchro.net/module:newslink

You can connect to an nntp server and keep your echo in sync with the server
and read/post as normal. It works pretty well, is use it myself.

Retro Guy

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<sl5gij$2r0$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 23:45:06 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <sl5gij$2r0$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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logging-data="2912"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
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In-Reply-To: <20211024182428.3878fa1f@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 05:45 UTC

On 10/24/21 5:24 PM, Nigel Reed wrote:
> This issue has just come up for me. I've setup a new innd server and
> currently have one peer and I'd like to add a few more non-binary
> peers (feel free to contact me), however my ipv4 is dynamic however my
> ipv6 is static, but, of course, not everyone has ipv6.

Send me an email directly. I'd be happy to peer with you.

I'm good with IPv6, dynamic IPv4, and UUCP. Whatever works best.

> Now, whenever my IP changes, my router instantly updates the DNS via
> nsupdate and I have a short ttl on the domain name. Is that likely to
> be an issue?

It may mean that INN ends up trying to connect to an old IP until it's
kicked in the bits (HUPed / restarted). But if you can live with at
worst a "hey ... hulp ..." type email on occasion, then I think things
can work.

> I'd be happy to setup uucp but does anyone use it any more? It's
> probably 30 years since I last tinkered with is, so it'll be a learning
> process, again.

I've got UUCP on my transit news server. I'd be happy to set that up.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

<20211025011904.4fbaaa72@wibble.sysadmininc.com>

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From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 01:19:04 -0500
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211025011904.4fbaaa72@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
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X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 by: Nigel Reed - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 06:19 UTC

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:30:45 -0500
711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:

> Can I install inn or inn2 without exim4? I really do not want this
> mailer on my server as I already have dovecot set up and running and I
> don't want to spend a month of Sundays learning the internals of exim.

Ok, I found the original article. Three options.

1. Install inn from source and not have to deal with any of that. Plus
you get the latest and greatest.

2. Make use of the equivs package, which will basically allow you to
create dummy packages that will satisfy a dependency.

3. Get the package, uncompress it, remove the dependency and then
repack it and install. Someone with a similar issue with exim asked
this question almost 11 years ago if you point your browser here:
https://serverfault.com/questions/250224/how-do-i-get-apt-get-to-ignore-some-dependencies

Good luck.

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 08:59:43 +0100
Organization: terraraq NNTP server
Message-ID: <87wnm1bkls.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 07:59 UTC

Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes:
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>
>> Can I install inn or inn2 without exim4? I really do not want this
>> mailer on my server as I already have dovecot set up and running and I
>> don't want to spend a month of Sundays learning the internals of exim.
>
> Ok, I found the original article. Three options.
>
> 1. Install inn from source and not have to deal with any of that. Plus
> you get the latest and greatest.
>
> 2. Make use of the equivs package, which will basically allow you to
> create dummy packages that will satisfy a dependency.
>
> 3. Get the package, uncompress it, remove the dependency and then
> repack it and install. Someone with a similar issue with exim asked
> this question almost 11 years ago if you point your browser here:
> https://serverfault.com/questions/250224/how-do-i-get-apt-get-to-ignore-some-dependencies

Are these really easier options than just installing nullmailer or
similar?

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 09:01:37 -0700
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <874k95drfi.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <sl033d$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <87zgr0l5du.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Russ Allbery - Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:01 UTC

Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes:
> Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:

>> INN hangs on to peer IP addresses for incoming.conf forever. Best
>> practices (implemented by at least the Debian inn2 package and
>> probably others) is to periodically reload incoming.conf (such as
>> from cron) to pick up new IP addresses. Given that, you probably
>> won't have a problem, although it will vary by peer.

> Ah, if it's cached that it will eventually be an issue. My ip only
> changes after an extended outage, but it could still happen at any
> time. I doubt any news admin is going to want to make changes to
> accommodate me. As I said, my ipv6 is static so I can, and do right
> now, peer with ipv6 enabled sites.

To be clear, my point is that INN is normally installed to reload
incoming.conf from cron on some schedule (often nightly), which will fix
all of the peers of that host. So it's not something special for you, but
it may be broken for up to a day depending on the schedule (and some INN
sites may not run such a cron job).

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: iul...@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid (Julien ÉLIE)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 09:25:51 +0200
Organization: Groupes francophones par TrigoFACILE
Message-ID: <sl8ahv$1nbkd$1@news.trigofacile.com>
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 by: Julien ÉLIE - Tue, 26 Oct 2021 07:25 UTC

Hi Nigel,
> I'd be happy to setup uucp but does anyone use it any more? It's
> probably 30 years since I last tinkered with is, so it'll be a learning
> process, again.

In case you set up a UUCP feed, you can have a look at the instructions
in the "Setting up UUCP feeds" section here:
https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/inn/docs/send-uucp.html

In case you see any improvements to add to that documentation, do not
hesitate to tell.

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Vous savez, les idées, elles sont dans l'air. Il suffit que quelqu'un
vous en parle de trop près, pour que vous les attrapiez ! » (Raymond
Devos)

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 16:18:56 -0500
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211026161856.24732cdb@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
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 by: Nigel Reed - Tue, 26 Oct 2021 21:18 UTC

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 09:25:51 +0200
Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

>
> In case you set up a UUCP feed, you can have a look at the
> instructions in the "Setting up UUCP feeds" section here:
> https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/inn/docs/send-uucp.html
>
> In case you see any improvements to add to that documentation, do not
> hesitate to tell.

Thanks for the link. I was going to go and search for one but this
looks pretty comprehensive. I'll take a look.

Thanks,
Nigel

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?

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From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: How may I install INN w/o Exim?
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 17:53:31 -0500
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211026175331.0ca4b864@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
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 by: Nigel Reed - Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:53 UTC

On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 23:45:06 -0600
Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

> Send me an email directly. I'd be happy to peer with you.
>
> I'm good with IPv6, dynamic IPv4, and UUCP. Whatever works best.

I have done. Let me know if you don't get it (or a response from me in
a reasonable time). my BBS email can be a little finicky at time.
> > Now, whenever my IP changes, my router instantly updates the DNS via
> > nsupdate and I have a short ttl on the domain name. Is that likely
> > to be an issue?
>
> It may mean that INN ends up trying to connect to an old IP until
> it's kicked in the bits (HUPed / restarted). But if you can live
> with at worst a "hey ... hulp ..." type email on occasion, then I
> think things can work.

The usenet server is behind a NAT (gosh horror) so as far as it's
concerned, it has the same IP. It's the other end that may have the
issues, I'm not sure.

> > I'd be happy to setup uucp but does anyone use it any more? It's
> > probably 30 years since I last tinkered with is, so it'll be a
> > learning process, again.
>
> I've got UUCP on my transit news server. I'd be happy to set that up.

Well, let's give it a whirl, I'm all for helping old technology avoid
being dead and buried...otherwise I wouldn't run a fido BBS :)

Thanks,
Nigel

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

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