I have 3 300Gb SAS drives running raid 5. It's almost out of space. I have added a new matching drive I can see with the MSA$UTIL show options. The new drive is disk 4. Can I add it to the existing RAID 5 without hurting the data and get more free blocks? I do not know how this works. 2. The firmware on the new drive is HPD2. On the older ones it HPD5. Will that matter? 3. My cache battery is dead can I safely work on these drives? Here is what I see in MSA:

RUN SYS$SYSTEM:MSA$UTIL
MSA> SET CONTROLLER
MSA> SHOW CONTROLLER/FULL

Adapter: _PKB0: (DEFAULT)
P400 (c) HP PAFGK0R9VXN2FL Software 5.22
Port Address: 50014380-04af0170
Supported Redundancy Mode: Dual Domain.
Dual Domain Mode: Not Redundant.
Cache:
52 megabyte read cache 156 megabyte write cache
Cache is Less than 75% of battery packs are at sufficient voltage, and Cache
is disabled.
No unflushed data in cache.
Battery:
Battery is not fully charged.
3 logical drives configured
Physical Drive Map:
Port: 1I, Bus: 1, Bay: 8
Port: 1I, Bus: 1, Bay: 7
Port: 1I, Bus: 1, Bay: 6
Port: 1I, Bus: 1, Bay: 5
Port: 2I, Bus: 1, Bay: 4
Port: 2I, Bus: 1, Bay: 2
Port: 2I, Bus: 1, Bay: 1
Disk 8, # 0, size 585871676 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 1.
Disk 8, # 1, size 288 blocks, (0.14 [0.15] MB), Unused.
Disk 7, # 0, size 585871676 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 1.
Disk 7, # 1, size 288 blocks, (0.14 [0.15] MB), Unused.
Disk 6, # 0, size 585871676 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 1.
Disk 6, # 1, size 288 blocks, (0.14 [0.15] MB), Unused.
Disk 5, # 0, size 585871964 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 2.
Disk 4, # 0, size 585871964 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unused.
Disk 2, # 0, size 143305920 blocks, (68.33 [73.37] GB), Unit 0.
Disk 2, # 1, size 3282 blocks, (1.60 [1.68] MB), Unused.
Disk 1, # 0, size 143305920 blocks, (68.33 [73.37] GB), Unit 0.
Disk 1, # 1, size 3282 blocks, (1.60 [1.68] MB), Unused

MSA> SHOW DISKS/FULL

SAS device [Disk]
Disk 8: bus: 1, Target id: 0, Port: 1I, Box/Enclosure: 0, Bay: 8, size 279.40
[300.00]GB
Disk 8, # 0, size 585871676 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 1.
Disk 8, # 1, size 288 blocks, (0.14 [0.15] MB), Unused.
Connector Location Internal
Connector 1I.
Enclosure 0.
Bay 8
WWID 0x5000cca0123bdaf5
Device Type Disk
Device Vendor ID HP
Device Product ID EG0300FBDBR
Device Serial Number PMH1XGHB
Device Firmware Version HPD5
Reserved blocks 65536. (32.000000 MB)
Block Size(bytes/sector) 512.
RPM 10020.
Compaq Drive Stamp(M&P Data Stamp) Yes
Last Failure Reason None.
Physical Disk Flags:
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure supported Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the factory M&P data No..
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure is enabled Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the since power M&P data No..
Drive attached to external connector No..
Drive is configured as part of a logical volume.
write cache is changeable and drive has a "safe" write cache.

SAS device [Disk]
Disk 7: bus: 1, Target id: 1, Port: 1I, Box/Enclosure: 0, Bay: 7, size 279.40
[300.00]GB
Disk 7, # 0, size 585871676 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 1.
Disk 7, # 1, size 288 blocks, (0.14 [0.15] MB), Unused.
Connector Location Internal
Connector 1I.
Enclosure 0.
Bay 7
WWID 0x5000cca01284b195
Device Type Disk
Device Vendor ID HP
Device Product ID EG0300FBDBR
Device Serial Number PMJAZ8SB
Device Firmware Version HPD5
Reserved blocks 65536. (32.000000 MB)
Block Size(bytes/sector) 512.
RPM 10020.
Compaq Drive Stamp(M&P Data Stamp) Yes
Last Failure Reason None.
Physical Disk Flags:
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure supported Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the factory M&P data No..
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure is enabled Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the since power M&P data No..
Drive attached to external connector No..
Drive is configured as part of a logical volume.
write cache is changeable and drive has a "safe" write cache.

SAS device [Disk]
Disk 6: bus: 1, Target id: 2, Port: 1I, Box/Enclosure: 0, Bay: 6, size 279.40
[300.00]GB
Disk 6, # 0, size 585871676 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 1.
Disk 6, # 1, size 288 blocks, (0.14 [0.15] MB), Unused.
Connector Location Internal
Connector 1I.
Enclosure 0.
Bay 6
WWID 0x5000cca0127eb551
Device Type Disk
Device Vendor ID HP
Device Product ID EG0300FBDBR
Device Serial Number PMJ7P7BB
Device Firmware Version HPD5
Reserved blocks 65536. (32.000000 MB)
Block Size(bytes/sector) 512.
RPM 10020.
Compaq Drive Stamp(M&P Data Stamp) Yes
Last Failure Reason None.
Physical Disk Flags:
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure supported Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the factory M&P data No..
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure is enabled Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the since power M&P data No..
Drive attached to external connector No..
Drive is configured as part of a logical volume.
write cache is changeable and drive has a "safe" write cache.

SAS device [Disk]
Disk 5: bus: 1, Target id: 3, Port: 1I, Box/Enclosure: 0, Bay: 5, size 279.40
[300.00]GB
Disk 5, # 0, size 585871964 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unit 2.
Connector Location Internal
Connector 1I.
Enclosure 0.
Bay 5
WWID 0x5000cca0128aa271
Device Type Disk
Device Vendor ID HP
Device Product ID EG0300FBDBR
Device Serial Number PMJG7KLB
Device Firmware Version HPD5
Reserved blocks 65536. (32.000000 MB)
Block Size(bytes/sector) 512.
RPM 10020.
Compaq Drive Stamp(M&P Data Stamp) Yes
Last Failure Reason None.
Physical Disk Flags:
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure supported Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the factory M&P data No..
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure is enabled Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the since power M&P data No..
Drive attached to external connector No..
Drive is configured as part of a logical volume.
write cache is changeable and drive has a "safe" write cache.

SAS device [Disk]
Disk 4: bus: 1, Target id: 4, Port: 2I, Box/Enclosure: 1, Bay: 4, size 279.40
[300.00]GB
Disk 4, # 0, size 585871964 blocks, (279.37 [299.97] GB), Unused.
Connector Location Internal
Connector 2I.
Enclosure 1.
Bay 4
WWID 0x5000c50068a70b91
Device Type Disk
Device Vendor ID HP
Device Product ID EG0300FCVBF
Device Serial Number S0K0JPFV0000B351E6B2
Device Firmware Version HPD2
Reserved blocks 65536. (32.000000 MB)
Block Size(bytes/sector) 512.
RPM 10500.
Compaq Drive Stamp(M&P Data Stamp) Yes
Last Failure Reason Removed in hot plug.
Physical Disk Flags:
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure supported Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the factory M&P data No..
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failure is enabled Yes.
S.M.A.R.T. predictive failures recorded in the since power M&P data No..
Drive attached to external connector No..
write cache is changeable and drive has a "safe" write cache.

On 4/4/2023 5:21 PM, Russell Allred wrote:
> I have 3 300Gb SAS drives running raid 5. It's almost out of space. I
> have added a new matching drive I can see with the MSA$UTIL show
> options. The new drive is disk 4. Can I add it to the existing RAID
> 5 without hurting the data and get more free blocks? I do not know
> how this works. 2. The firmware on the new drive is HPD2. On the
> older ones it HPD5. Will that matter? 3. My cache battery is dead
> can I safely work on these drives? Here is what I see in MSA:

A major reorg of data will be needed, but whether that requires:

old RAID-5 disk system -> other media -> new RAID-5 disk system

or the RAID controller can actually handle it automatically I don't
know. Someone that know that RAID controller may be able to tell.

But just to understand the basics:

old system:

disk1 disk2 disk3
blk 1 blk 2 blk 1 xor 2
blk 3 blk 3 xor 4 blk 4
blk 5 xor 6 blk 5 blk 6

new system:

disk1 disk2 disk3 disk4
blk 1 blk 2 blk 3 blk 1 xor 2 xor 3
blk 4 blk 5 blk 4 xor 5 xor 6 blk 6

Arne

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 4:04:59 PM UTC-7, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
(snip)

> or the RAID controller can actually handle it automatically I don't
> know. Someone that know that RAID controller may be able to tell.
>
> But just to understand the basics:
>
> old system:
>
> disk1 disk2 disk3
> blk 1 blk 2 blk 1 xor 2
> blk 3 blk 3 xor 4 blk 4
> blk 5 xor 6 blk 5 blk 6
>
> new system:
>
> disk1 disk2 disk3 disk4
> blk 1 blk 2 blk 3 blk 1 xor 2 xor 3
> blk 4 blk 5 blk 4 xor 5 xor 6 blk 6
Some controller (or computer) might be able to do that.

It isn't obvious that an intermediate state is good, though,
so you probably want a full backup before starting it.

Seems to me that with appropriate checkpoint, so that it
remembers how for it has gone, and how far still to go,
that it words. And likely when no-one else is writing.

You can generate the whole new contents of disk4,
without changing the other ones. Some disk space,
somewhere else, for temporary use would be nice.
Copy some blocks to temporary space, record that
you did that somewhere, generate new blocks for
those parts of the disks. Repeat until done.

If it fails partway through, continue on based on
the known stored temporary blocks.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 4:36:25 PM UTC-7, gah4 wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 4:04:59 PM UTC-7, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>
> (snip)
> > or the RAID controller can actually handle it automatically I don't
> > know. Someone that know that RAID controller may be able to tell.
> >
> > But just to understand the basics:
> >
> > old system:
> >
> > disk1 disk2 disk3
> > blk 1 blk 2 blk 1 xor 2
> > blk 3 blk 3 xor 4 blk 4
> > blk 5 xor 6 blk 5 blk 6
> >
> > new system:
> >
> > disk1 disk2 disk3 disk4
> > blk 1 blk 2 blk 3 blk 1 xor 2 xor 3
> > blk 4 blk 5 blk 4 xor 5 xor 6 blk 6
> Some controller (or computer) might be able to do that.
>
> It isn't obvious that an intermediate state is good, though,
> so you probably want a full backup before starting it.
>
> Seems to me that with appropriate checkpoint, so that it
> remembers how for it has gone, and how far still to go,
> that it words. And likely when no-one else is writing.
>
> You can generate the whole new contents of disk4,
> without changing the other ones. Some disk space,
> somewhere else, for temporary use would be nice.
> Copy some blocks to temporary space, record that
> you did that somewhere, generate new blocks for
> those parts of the disks. Repeat until done.
>
> If it fails partway through, continue on based on
> the known stored temporary blocks.

I get the theory part ok. It's can the MSA$UTIL program and my P400 controller do it? If so, what are the commands? I have found this link which helps:

http://h41379.www4.hpe.com/doc/84final/6048/6048pro_052.html#bottom_052

I hope someone has tried this and can show me examples of the commands to use and pitfalls to avoid.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 8:12:08 PM UTC-4, Russell Allred wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 4:36:25 PM UTC-7, gah4 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 4:04:59 PM UTC-7, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> >
> > (snip)
> > > or the RAID controller can actually handle it automatically I don't
> > > know. Someone that know that RAID controller may be able to tell.
> > >
> > > But just to understand the basics:
> > >
> > > old system:
> > >
> > > disk1 disk2 disk3
> > > blk 1 blk 2 blk 1 xor 2
> > > blk 3 blk 3 xor 4 blk 4
> > > blk 5 xor 6 blk 5 blk 6
> > >
> > > new system:
> > >
> > > disk1 disk2 disk3 disk4
> > > blk 1 blk 2 blk 3 blk 1 xor 2 xor 3
> > > blk 4 blk 5 blk 4 xor 5 xor 6 blk 6
> > Some controller (or computer) might be able to do that.
> >
> > It isn't obvious that an intermediate state is good, though,
> > so you probably want a full backup before starting it.
> >
> > Seems to me that with appropriate checkpoint, so that it
> > remembers how for it has gone, and how far still to go,
> > that it words. And likely when no-one else is writing.
> >
> > You can generate the whole new contents of disk4,
> > without changing the other ones. Some disk space,
> > somewhere else, for temporary use would be nice.
> > Copy some blocks to temporary space, record that
> > you did that somewhere, generate new blocks for
> > those parts of the disks. Repeat until done.
> >
> > If it fails partway through, continue on based on
> > the known stored temporary blocks.
> I get the theory part ok. It's can the MSA$UTIL program and my P400 controller do it? If so, what are the commands? I have found this link which helps:
>
> http://h41379.www4.hpe.com/doc/84final/6048/6048pro_052.html#bottom_052
>
> I hope someone has tried this and can show me examples of the commands to use and pitfalls to avoid.

I'm just running out the door so do not know if these examples meet your needs. But they might be worth a look

https://neilrieck.net/docs/openvms_notes_itanium_diary.html#msa

OpenVMS systems can run unattended for years which means that companies forget about them until they run into trouble (like running out of storage space) so selective purging might help you in the sort term until you decide what to do next.

For example, you might wish to consider JUST the first tip on this page:
https://neilrieck.net/docs/openvms_notes_system_manager.html

In an emergency you might wish to purge all the log files everywhere.
Next, consider purging all the datafiles everywhere.
I assisted on an emergency last year where where I was required to purge everything (but I did a "keep 3" just to be safe)

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:21:35 PM UTC-4, Russell Allred wrote:
> I have 3 300Gb SAS drives running raid 5. It's almost out of space. I have added a new matching drive I can see with the MSA$UTIL show options. The new drive is disk 4. Can I add it to the existing RAID 5 without hurting the data and get more free blocks? I do not know how this works. 2. The firmware on the new drive is HPD2. On the older ones it HPD5. Will that matter? 3. My cache battery is dead can I safely work on these drives? Here is what I see in MSA:
>

The answer to question 2 - I've never seen disk firmware in a p4x0 controller make any difference operationally

On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 7:55:19 AM UTC-4, Kenneth Randell wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:21:35 PM UTC-4, Russell Allred wrote:
> > I have 3 300Gb SAS drives running raid 5. It's almost out of space. I have added a new matching drive I can see with the MSA$UTIL show options. The new drive is disk 4. Can I add it to the existing RAID 5 without hurting the data and get more free blocks? I do not know how this works. 2. The firmware on the new drive is HPD2. On the older ones it HPD5. Will that matter? 3. My cache battery is dead can I safely work on these drives? Here is what I see in MSA:
> >
> The answer to question 2 - I've never seen disk firmware in a p4x0 controller make any difference operationally

From OpenVMS it is possible to create a larger new RAID-based volume then copy to it provided you have spare slots.
If the volume you want to enlarge contains system software then you will be rebooting (obviously)
If the volume you want to enlarge does not contain system software then it is a little easier (you will still need to stop processes on a user volume, dismount the old volume, mount the new volume then continue.)

https://neilrieck.net/docs/openvms_notes_itanium_diary.html#reconfig2600
https://neilrieck.net/docs/openvms_notes_itanium_diary.html#reconfig2800

Some of these steps are available from ROM (ORCA) during boot but I suspect you would need to bring your system up in conversational mode in order to copy from old to new then reboot again.

comment: On both my rx2600 and rx2800 systems I am doing weekly backups of both my system disk and user disk (I pull those destination drives every month to move them off site). I see no reason why I couldn't reconfig those destinations with larger drives, do a backup to them, then boot the new system disk.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net

Answer question 3. Battery answer here: https://vmssoftware.com/docs/VSI_SYS_MAN_UTIL_REF_VOL_II.pdf

"EXTEND, MIGRATE, and EXPAND commands on Smart Array systems will fail if the controller
cache is bad or the cache battery is less than 75%."

A new battery will be here next week.

Thanks for all the great feedback thus far!!!!! :) Still working on the sequence of commands for the upgrade.