I have a hotmail account set up and working on my PC.
I got eMails today.

New PC and trying to get this hotmail to set up there.

Thunderbird on both.

Thunderbird says it cannot find server.
I tried several times and verified my @hotmail.com and password but no go.

Tried IMAP and POP.

Working from new computers so enet connection is good.

What do I do ?

Renting wrote:
> I have a hotmail account set up and working on my PC.
> I got eMails today.
>
> New PC and trying to get this hotmail to set up there.
>
> Thunderbird on both.
>
> Thunderbird says it cannot find server.
> I tried several times and verified my @hotmail.com and password but no go.
>
> Tried IMAP and POP.
>
> Working from new computers so enet connection is good.
>
> What do I do ?

Assuming you have the port, ssl/tls, inbound/outbound, etc, set right,
then see if some virus, anti-virus, or firewall(s) are blocking T-bird.

"Renting" <Renting@Spamnot.com> wrote

|
| Tried IMAP and POP.
| | Working from new computers so enet connection is good.
| | What do I do ?

The first thing would be to confirm settings. Go to hotmail
and/or check your settings on the old computer. You need
to get the port # right, as well as the encryption type, the
server name, and your user name. (It may be "someone" or
it may be "someone@hotmail.com" for example.)

Also, TBird is badly designed, with separate settings for
incoming and outgoing. So you need to make sure you get
all the settings right on each and that the account is set
to use the right outgoing server.... This is why people use
webmail. :)

On 10/9/2021 6:35 PM, Renting wrote:
> I have a hotmail account set up and working on my PC.
> I got eMails today.
>
> New PC and trying to get this hotmail to set up there.
>
> Thunderbird on both.
>
> Thunderbird says it cannot find server.
> I tried several times and verified my @hotmail.com and password but no go.
>
> Tried IMAP and POP.
>
> Working from new computers so enet connection is good.
>
> What do I do ?

Many e-mail providers now require a sort of mail key, I had to do that
with both of my Yahoo powered accounts to use in a Thunderbird.
However, hotmail/MSN does not require that, and mine is still working
with "normal" whatever security password authentication.

Post in alt.comp.software.thunderbird for further help; cross-posted.

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 at 20:24:30, Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
> Also, TBird is badly designed, with separate settings for
>incoming and outgoing. So you need to make sure you get
>all the settings right on each and that the account is set
>to use the right outgoing server.... This is why people use
>webmail. :)
>
Why is that "badly designed"? I know plenty of mail providers who use
(or at least appear to use) different servers for incoming and outgoing
email. OK, probably the username and password might be the same for
each, and it wouldn't hurt if TB had a "copy from incoming/outgoing"
button next to each of those, but I don't think that in itself is bad
design: on the contrary, a client that only allowed a common setting for
server name, username, or password for the two would be unusable with a
provider where they _are_ different.

One way in which TB was IMO badly designed (not necessarily badly, but
different to other clients) is that it didn't have a slot for password
in the settings window(s) for one or other (I forget which - maybe both)
incoming or outgoing, instead popping up a box for it (including a
"remember" tickbox) the first time you used it. I speak in past tense as
it's a while since I set up TB for anyone, so I don't know if it still
does that.
>
2 --
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!

On 10/9/2021 5:24 PM, Mayayana wrote:

> Also, TBird is badly designed, with separate settings for
> incoming and outgoing. So you need to make sure you get
> all the settings right on each and that the account is set
> to use the right outgoing server.... This is why people use
> webmail. :)

No way! People use webmail either because they think they have to and
there is no other choice (most gmail users, for example) or they don't
realize it's a poor choice there are many much better choices.

--
Ken

On 10/9/2021 8:24 PM, Mayayana wrote:

> Also, TBird is badly designed, with separate settings for
> incoming and outgoing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol

"Cleanly separating mail into submission and relay was seen
as a way to permit and encourage rewriting submissions while
prohibiting rewriting relay.

As spam became more prevalent, it was also seen as a way to
provide authorization for mail being sent out from an organization,
as well as traceability.

This separation of relay and submission quickly became a
foundation for modern email security practices.
"

It's the discovery that the separation had a convenient usage
(anti-spam), that continued to make the separation worthwhile.

In Thunderbird, you can have three incoming accounts set up,
and only one outgoing "smtp.isp.com" in the setup, and it
all works fine.

Paul

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| Why is that "badly designed"? I know plenty of mail providers who use
| (or at least appear to use) different servers for incoming and outgoing
| email.

As you noted, the missing password field is also a problem.
The server setup is badly designed because for incoming you have
to set the server in the account, but for outgoing you have
to set the account in the server. It should just be one window
for all settings, for each account.

Incoming POP3 or IMAP
server: mail.somehwere.com
port: xxx
username: xxx
encryption: xxx

Outgoing SMTP
server: smtp.somewhere.com
port: xxx
username: xxx
encryption: xxx

That's how people get the info from their ISP.
They should be able to enter it all in one place. Instead
the outgoing server(s) is in an entirely different
section, often not visible without scrolling. And it's
not clear that the account server settings are only
for incoming. Also, I don't know of any way to change
between POP and IMAP without starting over.
The process is confusing enough without complicating
it further. Then there's also the attempt to do it
for you, which is fine if you want that, but then it's
confusing trying to set it up yourself when TBird
fails. Having TBird try to do it should be an option
that's offered, not a default that's hard to bypass.

I find endless little things about TBird that seem poorly
designed to me. It's not a big deal, but it all makes it
harder for inexperienced people to set up email.

Awhile back I discovered the password storage, which
can be shown in plain text, which makes things a lot easier.
(Tools -> Options -> Securrity -> Passwords ->
Saved Passwords) But as you said, that should be set
on the account page.

"Ken Blake" <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
| | No way! People use webmail either because they think they have to and
| there is no other choice (most gmail users, for example) or they don't
| realize it's a poor choice there are many much better choices.
|

Yes, but part of the reason they don't know any better
is that it's nearly impossible for the average person to set
up an email account in client software. The whole thing is
crazy. It should have been standardized a long time ago.
I once tried to write code to fetch the setting automatically,
but it turned out there was no standard. POP might be
pop.somewhere.com, or mail.somehwere.com, or something else.
There's no way to know. Servers can be queried for MX
records but the results are inconsistent and usually
not adequate.

So a person who probably doesn't even know enough to
install TBird then has to know how to visit their ISP to
search for sever settings. Then they have to correctly
enter port, encryption, password, server, username for
both POP3 and SMTP. Then, of course, they also have
to figure out how to use the client software.

On 10/10/2021 3:16 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Ken Blake" <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
> |
> | No way! People use webmail either because they think they have to and
> | there is no other choice (most gmail users, for example) or they don't
> | realize it's a poor choice there are many much better choices.
> |
>
> Yes, but part of the reason they don't know any better
> is that it's nearly impossible for the average person to set
> up an email account in client software. The whole thing is
> crazy. It should have been standardized a long time ago.
> I once tried to write code to fetch the setting automatically,
> but it turned out there was no standard. POP might be
> pop.somewhere.com, or mail.somehwere.com, or something else.
> There's no way to know. Servers can be queried for MX
> records but the results are inconsistent and usually
> not adequate.
>
> So a person who probably doesn't even know enough to
> install TBird then has to know how to visit their ISP to
> search for sever settings. Then they have to correctly
> enter port, encryption, password, server, username for
> both POP3 and SMTP. Then, of course, they also have
> to figure out how to use the client software.
>
>

They have some logic onboard for it.
But the result will not necessarily be perfect.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/automatic-account-configuration

https://web.archive.org/web/20140822082824/https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Thunderbird/Autoconfiguration

I used an archive.org for the second link, as it appears
the page was removed.

Paul

Op 10-10-2021 om 03:56 schreef Michael Trew:
> On 10/9/2021 6:35 PM, Renting wrote:
>> I have a hotmail account set up and working on my PC.
>> I got eMails today.
>>
>> New PC and trying to get this hotmail to set up there.
>>
>> Thunderbird on both.
>>
>> Thunderbird says it cannot find server.
>> I tried several times and verified my @hotmail.com and password but no
>> go.
>>
>> Tried IMAP and POP.
>>
>> Working from new computers so enet connection is good.
>>
>> What do I do ?
>
> Many e-mail providers now require a sort of mail key, I had to do that
> with both of my Yahoo powered accounts to use in a Thunderbird. However,
> hotmail/MSN does not require that, and mine is still working with
> "normal" whatever security password authentication.
>
> Post in alt.comp.software.thunderbird for further help; cross-posted.
Don't forget to mention the version and operating system.

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

| They have some logic onboard for it.
| But the result will not necessarily be perfect.
|

Yes, they can sometimes set it up if it's a common
ISP. But as I said, there's no real system in place for
autodiscovery. When they can't set it up it just
confuses things all the more. If I remember correctly
it just spits out a message like "account setup failed"
and quits. What it should do is to lead a person through
setting it up, explain it, and if the person doesn't have
the info needed then TBird could offer to try and fetch
it, after showing a brief explanation of what's needed.

The way they set it up is more like getting into a car
to go to NYC and the car's computer won't let you drive.
It just forges ahead. Then when it hits a dead end
somehwhere in northern New Jersey it just says, "never
mind" and drives back home. All of that with no help file
and no guidance.

OE dates back to the mid-90s, long before TBird, and even
it's original design was not bad. It didn't provide options if
you didn't know the settings, but at least it would walk you
through entering them. Both programs should provide some
kind of basic guide explaining how to find the settings at your
ISP and what settings are needed.

On 10/10/2021 21:11, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
> Op 10-10-2021 om 03:56 schreef Michael Trew:
>> On 10/9/2021 6:35 PM, Renting wrote:
>>> I have a hotmail account set up and working on my PC.
>>> I got eMails today.
>>>
>>> New PC and trying to get this hotmail to set up there.
>>>
>>> Thunderbird on both.
>>>
>>> Thunderbird says it cannot find server.
>>> I tried several times and verified my @hotmail.com and password but
>>> no go.
>>>
>>> Tried IMAP and POP.
>>>
>>> Working from new computers so enet connection is good.
>>>
>>> What do I do ?
>>
>> Many e-mail providers now require a sort of mail key, I had to do that
>> with both of my Yahoo powered accounts to use in a Thunderbird.
>> However, hotmail/MSN does not require that, and mine is still working
>> with "normal" whatever security password authentication.
>>
>> Post in alt.comp.software.thunderbird for further help; cross-posted.
> Don't forget to mention the version and operating system.

Start by checking that you have the correct server address, port and
connection security (for both the incoming and outgoing servers).

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
news:sjv5ga$7cl$1@dont-email.me:

> On 10/9/2021 8:24 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>
>> Also, TBird is badly designed, with separate settings
>> for
>> incoming and outgoing.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol
>
> "Cleanly separating mail into submission and relay was
> seen
> as a way to permit and encourage rewriting
> submissions while prohibiting rewriting relay.
>
> As spam became more prevalent, it was also seen as a
> way to provide authorization for mail being sent out
> from an organization, as well as traceability.
>
> This separation of relay and submission quickly
> became a foundation for modern email security
> practices.
> "
>
> It's the discovery that the separation had a convenient
> usage (anti-spam), that continued to make the separation
> worthwhile.
>
> In Thunderbird, you can have three incoming accounts set
> up, and only one outgoing "smtp.isp.com" in the setup, and
> it all works fine.
>
> Paul

And in fact, in T-Bird, you can have multiple outgoing servers setup also, and use a
specfic SMTP server for specfifc accounts.

I went to another third computer with thunderbird and all I did to
create an account on thunderbid was to enter the email address and the
password and it immediately connected and loaded my current emails.

I check and saw that the thunderbird versions were differet.
Maybe this is the problem ?

Renting wrote:
> I have a hotmail account set up and working on my PC.
> I got eMails today.
>
> New PC and trying to get this hotmail to set up there.
>
> Thunderbird on both.
>
> Thunderbird says it cannot find server.
> I tried several times and verified my @hotmail.com and password but no go.
>
> Tried IMAP and POP.
>
> Working from new computers so enet connection is good.
>
> What do I do ?