On 4/18/2023 9:14 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
> I have edited various configuration files with EDIT on OpenVMS 9.2 x86
> a few times. Each time I edit one of these files, EDIT appears to
> delete the first word on the first line when it opens the file on my
> terminal! I can fix it by putting that back in before saving but it's
> just annoying.
>
> Any ideas?
>

Which editor? EDT? Others?

If EDT, is there an EDTINI file?

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 10:25 -0400, Dave Froble wrote:
> > I have edited various configuration files with EDIT on OpenVMS 9.2
> > x86 a few times. Each time I edit one of these files, EDIT appears
> > to delete the first word on the first line when it opens the file
> > on my terminal! I can fix it by putting that back in before saving
> > but it's just annoying.
> >
>
> Which editor?  EDT?  Others?
>
> If EDT, is there an EDTINI file?

The default editor on the system which happens to be EDIT. No
qualifiers supplied except the file name. I wasn't aware there was an
EDTINI file, I'll have to look on the VSI wiki.

Thanks.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On 4/18/2023 10:41 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 10:25 -0400, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> I have edited various configuration files with EDIT on OpenVMS 9.2
>>> x86 a few times. Each time I edit one of these files, EDIT appears
>>> to delete the first word on the first line when it opens the file
>>> on my terminal! I can fix it by putting that back in before saving
>>> but it's just annoying.
>>>
>>
>> Which editor?  EDT?  Others?
>>
>> If EDT, is there an EDTINI file?
>
> The default editor on the system which happens to be EDIT. No
> qualifiers supplied except the file name. I wasn't aware there was an
> EDTINI file, I'll have to look on the VSI wiki.

Once upon a time EDT was default.

But EVE has been default for quite some time by now.

It is of course possible to have $ EDIT :== EDIT/EDT and I
expect several old VMS'ers to have so.

But EDT and no EDTINI does not sound likely. EDT start up
in line mode. Practically all EDT users will have an
EDTINI with SET MODE CHANGE.

If not I consider them really hard core. Line mode editing
in 2023 is extreme.

Arne

On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 10:54 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> > The default editor on the system which happens to be EDIT. No
> > qualifiers supplied except the file name. I wasn't aware there was
> > an EDTINI file, I'll have to look on the VSI wiki.
>
> Once upon a time EDT was default.
>
> But EVE has been default for quite some time by now.
>
> It is of course possible to have $ EDIT :== EDIT/EDT and I
> expect several old VMS'ers to have so.
>
> But EDT and no EDTINI does not sound likely. EDT start up
> in line mode. Practically all EDT users will have an
> EDTINI with SET MODE CHANGE.
>
> If not I consider them really hard core. Line mode editing
> in 2023 is extreme.

Maybe it's time to get vim installed. At least I know where I am with
that :-D
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

:
> I have edited various configuration files with EDIT on OpenVMS 9.2 x86
> a few times. Each time I edit one of these files, EDIT appears to
> delete the first word on the first line when it opens the file on my
> terminal! I can fix it by putting that back in before saving but it's
> just annoying.
>
> Any ideas?

A wild guess is that your terminal emulator is sending an extra linefeed
character when you start the editor. In EVE, a CTRL/J (LF) deletes the
current word.

tom dot wade at tomwade dot eu

On 4/18/2023 11:06 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 10:54 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> The default editor on the system which happens to be EDIT. No
>>> qualifiers supplied except the file name. I wasn't aware there was
>>> an EDTINI file, I'll have to look on the VSI wiki.
>>
>> Once upon a time EDT was default.
>>
>> But EVE has been default for quite some time by now.
>>
>> It is of course possible to have $ EDIT :== EDIT/EDT and I
>> expect several old VMS'ers to have so.
>>
>> But EDT and no EDTINI does not sound likely. EDT start up
>> in line mode. Practically all EDT users will have an
>> EDTINI with SET MODE CHANGE.
>>
>> If not I consider them really hard core. Line mode editing
>> in 2023 is extreme.
>
> Maybe it's time to get vim installed. At least I know where I am with
> that :-D

Using vim on VMS would be heretic.

:-)

For system management I would recommend that you use an editor
always there aka not vim. EVE out of the box is not a powerful
editor, but it should do the job and behave unsurprisingly.

If your are going to write code then you need something
you like. EVE with a lot of extensions or LSE or vim
or emacs or whatever.

Arne

I have edited various configuration files with EDIT on OpenVMS 9.2 x86
a few times. Each time I edit one of these files, EDIT appears to
delete the first word on the first line when it opens the file on my
terminal! I can fix it by putting that back in before saving but it's
just annoying.

Any ideas?
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 16:14 +0100, Tom Wade wrote:
> > Any ideas?
>
> A wild guess is that your terminal emulator is sending an extra
> linefeed character when you start the editor.  In EVE, a CTRL/J (LF)
> deletes the current word.

That's a pretty good guess, I'll check my terminal emulation settings.
I've been using device_type=vt132 with /page=43 and /width=143 as
that's my favourite gnome terminal settings.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On 4/18/2023 11:33 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 16:14 +0100, Tom Wade wrote:
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>> A wild guess is that your terminal emulator is sending an extra
>> linefeed character when you start the editor.  In EVE, a CTRL/J (LF)
>> deletes the current word.
>
> That's a pretty good guess, I'll check my terminal emulation settings.
> I've been using device_type=vt132 with /page=43 and /width=143 as
> that's my favourite gnome terminal settings.

I will strongly recommend VT200/300/400/500 over
VT100 and derivatives for VMS.

Arne

On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 11:44 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> > That's a pretty good guess, I'll check my terminal emulation
> > settings.
> > I've been using device_type=vt132 with /page=43 and /width=143 as
> > that's my favourite gnome terminal settings.
>
> I will strongly recommend VT200/300/400/500 over
> VT100 and derivatives for VMS.

I'd use VT200 if I could but it's not accepted.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On 2023-04-18, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>
> But EDT and no EDTINI does not sound likely. EDT start up
> in line mode. Practically all EDT users will have an
> EDTINI with SET MODE CHANGE.
>
> If not I consider them really hard core. Line mode editing
> in 2023 is extreme.
>

So, in that case, what do _you_ call the TECO users ? :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

=?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>Using vim on VMS would be heretic.

I did for a while and it was interesting because everything became
stream_lf and sometimes that was good and sometimes it was not.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 2023-04-18, Single Stage to Orbit <alex.buell@munted.eu> wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 16:14 +0100, Tom Wade wrote:
>> > Any ideas?
>>
>> A wild guess is that your terminal emulator is sending an extra
>> linefeed character when you start the editor.  In EVE, a CTRL/J (LF)
>> deletes the current word.
>
> That's a pretty good guess, I'll check my terminal emulation settings.
> I've been using device_type=vt132 with /page=43 and /width=143 as
> that's my favourite gnome terminal settings.

Have you successfully used gnome-terminal to edit files on other VMS
systems ?

Unless gnome-terminal has massively improved in the last few years,
I would strongly recommend that you not use it with VMS systems and
that you use an alternative instead.

I would suggest either xterm with a suitable keyboard mapping script,
or PuTTY (which does indeed run under Linux and also comes with a
pterm component).

If using pterm, you will probably have to use options on the command
line to set it up how you want, and you _may_ need to force application
keypad mode.

Using vttest at https://invisible-island.net/vttest/ used to be rather
interesting when trying it against the various open source terminal
emulators other than xterm or PuTTY but that's not something I've had
the need to do in recent years.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 17:29 +0000, Simon Clubley wrote:
> > That's a pretty good guess, I'll check my terminal emulation
> > settings. I've been using device_type=vt132 with /page=43 and
> > /width=143 as that's my favourite gnome terminal settings.
>
> Have you successfully used gnome-terminal to edit files on other VMS
> systems ?

Yes, SimH and AXPBox were flawless. :(

> I would suggest either xterm with a suitable keyboard mapping script,
> or PuTTY (which does indeed run under Linux and also comes with a
> pterm component).

As it happens, there's a PuTTY package, I'll install and try it out.

> Using vttest at https://invisible-island.net/vttest/ used to be
> rather interesting when trying it against the various open source
> terminal emulators other than xterm or PuTTY but that's not something
> I've had the need to do in recent years.

OK, grabbed the sources too, this should be interesting.

Cheers!
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 17:17 +0000, Simon Clubley wrote:
> > If not I consider them really hard core. Line mode editing
> > in 2023 is extreme.
> >
>
> So, in that case, what do _you_ call the TECO users ? :-)

Perl (ab)users. ;-D
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On 2023-04-18, Single Stage to Orbit <alex.buell@munted.eu> wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-04-18 at 17:29 +0000, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> > That's a pretty good guess, I'll check my terminal emulation
>> > settings. I've been using device_type=vt132 with /page=43 and
>> > /width=143 as that's my favourite gnome terminal settings.
>>
>> Have you successfully used gnome-terminal to edit files on other VMS
>> systems ?
>
> Yes, SimH and AXPBox were flawless. :(
>

One idea that occurred to me is for you to see if the gnome-terminal
session is running in 8-bit mode (visible in $ show term) and if so,
try switching from 8-bit mode to 7-bit mode using "$ set term/noeight"
and see if that improves things.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

I have not seen that behavior.

I use PuTTY on my W10 and W11 machines to Virtual Box. I connect to my localhost:2023 port with "raw" (not "telnet") connection type and force off the local echo and local line editing settings in PuTTY (under the "terminal" settings). I connect to OPA0 (I will sometimes do a 2nd connection to TTA0 as I enable other serial ports in Virtual Box), a SET TERM/INQ gives me a VT102 setting (based on PuTTY's answerback). I do not have to use any other settings (7-bit vs 8-bit, etc).

The only thing I see is that if I cut-n-paste into the console connection, you can overrun some control-flow buffer. I'm not a driver expert but I do know that others know about it. I don't think it is unique to x86.

John

On 2023-04-19, John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The only thing I see is that if I cut-n-paste into the console connection, you can overrun some control-flow buffer. I'm not a driver expert but I do know that others know about it. I don't think it is unique to x86.
>

See if /HOSTSYNC is enabled on the terminal and if not, try enabling it.

If that doesn't work, C-Kermit's TRANSMIT command allows a rate-limited
transfer of the contents of a file. I use it when I need to send licence
PAKs over to a system and there isn't an available file transfer protocol
available yet on the target system.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2023-04-18 19:17, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-04-18, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>
>> But EDT and no EDTINI does not sound likely. EDT start up
>> in line mode. Practically all EDT users will have an
>> EDTINI with SET MODE CHANGE.
>>
>> If not I consider them really hard core. Line mode editing
>> in 2023 is extreme.
>>
>
> So, in that case, what do _you_ call the TECO users ? :-)

Just don't go there... :-D

(I actually still use TECO to edit stuff from time to time. It's very
nice for some things...)

Johnny

On 4/19/2023 4:54 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On 2023-04-18 19:17, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-04-18, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>> But EDT and no EDTINI does not sound likely. EDT start up
>>> in line mode. Practically all EDT users will have an
>>> EDTINI with SET MODE CHANGE.
>>>
>>> If not I consider them really hard core. Line mode editing
>>> in 2023 is extreme.
>>>
>>
>> So, in that case, what do _you_ call the TECO users ? :-)
>
> Just don't go there... :-D
>
> (I actually still use TECO to edit stuff from time to time. It's very
> nice for some things...)
>

I haven't used TECO in decades but I use line editors all the time.
Sometimes full screen editors are just overkill.

bill