Just a shot in the dark, but has anyone had the problem with a Toshiba CD drive (specifically the XM-5701B) where it immediately spits out the CD after loading? I've watched the CD label and it doesn't change so it's not even spinning the disk. I was using the drive and have been for a week or so copying some SPL disks to my MicroVAX 3100 and had no issues. In fact, I had just copied one disk, ejected it and put in the next when this started happening. Literally less than a minute in between success and failure.

So I started to investigate. I removed the drive from the MV and I was using some canned air to blow around in it just to make sure there was no dust. However, the danged canned air decided to shoot the red tube straight into the opening slot of the CD drive! WTF! Then when I tipped the drive face down to see if I'd get luck and it would fall out, I got a small white gear instead. Sh*t, my canned air was trying to kill my CD drive! I shined a flashlight into the opening and I could see the red tube off to the side, hiding after doing it's dirty work. I saw no obvious place where the gear could have come from. Now I had to open the case and dig. I had never taken one of these apart before so I went carefully. It wasn't too bad and most things were pretty obvious if you've dug around in things like these.

The short story is that I got it apart and after peeling off a couple layers of plastic case and the circuit board I found where the gear was supposed to go. It slipped right on and seemed to work. It was part of the mechanism that lowers the LED read head so that the CD tray can slide in and out. Pushing on the lever you hit with the unfolded paperclip in that little hole on the faceplate cause it to move and turn and the LED platform dropped like it was supposed to and the CD tray slid out. It also meas that the gear wasn't the problem because with it gone, the LED platform won[t drop and the tray won't come out - which it was doing quite well. Too well, if you remember. I poked around a little more and made sure everything looked clean and nothing appeared broken - snapped plastic and such. Then I closed it back up without any more problems encountered. However, it still does the eject right after the ingest.

Any suggestions?

For what it's worth, I believe the Toshiba XM-5701B is what DEC labeled their RRD46, possibly the RRD47.

I do have a couple of possible replacements coming from Ebay but these things are rare enough now I don't want to think it's toast.

John H. Reinhardt

> [...] It slipped right on and seemed to work. [...]

Until it slips right off? Or just slips? In my (limited)
experience, it's not unusual for an old/embrittled press-fit plastic
gear to crack (radially) from its long, stressful life. If it's not an
idler, and it's loose on its shaft (because it's cracked), then you
might try a micro-drop of super glue on the shaft (not on the gear
teeth), to get it re-attached (for a few minutes, perhaps?). if a gear
has a (radial) crack which extends all the way from its shaft hole to
its teeth, then the resulting increase in tooth spacing at that one
point can cause it to jam when that spot tries to mesh with its mate.
(Making a simple glue repair impossible.)

I wouldn't bet much on success if I were attempting this kind of
repair. On the other hand, it's already defective, so there may not be
much to lose by trying.

> [...] copying some SPL disks to my MicroVAX 3100 [...]

Read the disks on a different system with a working drive, and move
the contents to the old system?

> [...] Literally less than a minute in between success and failure.
> [...]

Many things which are not broken can become broken quickly. (When
they break.)

> [...] possible replacements coming from Ebay [...]

My dim recollection is that almost anything works on an Alpha, but an
old VAX might need a block-size jumper set to 512.

> [...] I don't want to think it's toast.

In the words of the philosopher, Jagger (or was it the philosopher,
Richards?), "You can't always get what you want."

On 4/30/2023 2:03 AM, Steven Schweda wrote:
>> [...] It slipped right on and seemed to work. [...]
>
> Until it slips right off? Or just slips? In my (limited)
> experience, it's not unusual for an old/embrittled press-fit plastic
> gear to crack (radially) from its long, stressful life. If it's not an
> idler, and it's loose on its shaft (because it's cracked), then you
> might try a micro-drop of super glue on the shaft (not on the gear
> teeth), to get it re-attached (for a few minutes, perhaps?). if a gear
> has a (radial) crack which extends all the way from its shaft hole to
> its teeth, then the resulting increase in tooth spacing at that one
> point can cause it to jam when that spot tries to mesh with its mate.
> (Making a simple glue repair impossible.)

Probably not going to work well. If one spot is weak, so might be the rest of
the "spots".

> I wouldn't bet much on success if I were attempting this kind of
> repair. On the other hand, it's already defective, so there may not be
> much to lose by trying.
>
>> [...] copying some SPL disks to my MicroVAX 3100 [...]
>
> Read the disks on a different system with a working drive, and move
> the contents to the old system?

Now here is the best advice. It's what I've been doing for some while. Make a
file that can be used as an LD device, and you got what you need. Oh, yeah, and
while reviled by some, FTP still does what you need.

>> [...] Literally less than a minute in between success and failure.
>> [...]
>
> Many things which are not broken can become broken quickly. (When
> they break.)
>
>> [...] possible replacements coming from Ebay [...]
>
> My dim recollection is that almost anything works on an Alpha, but an
> old VAX might need a block-size jumper set to 512.
>
>> [...] I don't want to think it's toast.
>
> In the words of the philosopher, Jagger (or was it the philosopher,
> Richards?), "You can't always get what you want."
>

And there is the sad reality. Older devices ain't coming back. Got to learn
alternative methods.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

> Probably not going to work well. If one spot is weak, so might be the
> rest of the "spots".

Sure, but when the first radial crack occurs, the stress is relieved,
so I wouldn't expect more than one such crack. The crack would normally
appear between teeth, where the gear is weakest, and that would spread
the two neighboring teeth. The problem which I'd expect (aside from
slippage on the shaft) is that the spread teeth won't mesh well with the
mating gear. (Working gears tend to have uniform tooth spacing, with no
exceptions.)

> [...] Older devices ain't coming back. Got to learn alternative
> methods.

Or buy a lifetime supply of junk while it's still available.

And store it under conditions where the plastic parts won't become
brittle or gooey. When I was young, I bought an over-priced belt-drive
phonograph turntable. After not using it for many years, I discovered
that the (polyurethane?) drive belt had turned into two bands of goo,
which had fallen onto the platform below. (Plus the smears of goo which
had stayed in the pulleys.) Polymers are wonderful, but often unstable
over time ranges measured in years. (I chose belt-drive over
direct-drive because I was worried about the lifetime of the
electronics. What could go wrong with a belt? Trust no one, I always
say. _Now_, I always say that.)

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 01:33:05 UTC+1, John H Reinhardt wrote:
> Just a shot in the dark, but has anyone had the problem with a Toshiba CD drive (specifically the XM-5701B) where it immediately spits out the CD after loading? I've watched the CD label and it doesn't change so it's not even spinning the disk. I was using the drive and have been for a week or so copying some SPL disks to my MicroVAX 3100 and had no issues. In fact, I had just copied one disk, ejected it and put in the next when this started happening. Literally less than a minute in between success and failure.
>
> So I started to investigate. I removed the drive from the MV and I was using some canned air to blow around in it just to make sure there was no dust. However, the danged canned air decided to shoot the red tube straight into the opening slot of the CD drive! WTF! Then when I tipped the drive face down to see if I'd get luck and it would fall out, I got a small white gear instead. Sh*t, my canned air was trying to kill my CD drive! I shined a flashlight into the opening and I could see the red tube off to the side, hiding after doing it's dirty work. I saw no obvious place where the gear could have come from. Now I had to open the case and dig. I had never taken one of these apart before so I went carefully. It wasn't too bad and most things were pretty obvious if you've dug around in things like these.
>
> The short story is that I got it apart and after peeling off a couple layers of plastic case and the circuit board I found where the gear was supposed to go. It slipped right on and seemed to work. It was part of the mechanism that lowers the LED read head so that the CD tray can slide in and out. Pushing on the lever you hit with the unfolded paperclip in that little hole on the faceplate cause it to move and turn and the LED platform dropped like it was supposed to and the CD tray slid out. It also meas that the gear wasn't the problem because with it gone, the LED platform won[t drop and the tray won't come out - which it was doing quite well. Too well, if you remember. I poked around a little more and made sure everything looked clean and nothing appeared broken - snapped plastic and such. Then I closed it back up without any more problems encountered. However, it still does the eject right after the ingest.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> For what it's worth, I believe the Toshiba XM-5701B is what DEC labeled their RRD46, possibly the RRD47.
>
> I do have a couple of possible replacements coming from Ebay but these things are rare enough now I don't want to think it's toast.
>
> John H. Reinhardt

I've had the same problem previously. My issue appeared to be caused by some slightly extra pressure on the drive casing when it was installed in the case. It was sufficient to cause the drive tray to do exactly what you described.
I don't recall exactly how I solved it, but I think I removed the front panel and/or used the drive slightly protuding from being flush with the case. I'm not sure if its weather dependent?!

I very nearly ended up buying a replacement drive from ebay for the same reasons.

HTH

Ben.