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computers / comp.mobile.android / How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

SubjectAuthor
* How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
|+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
|| +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
|| | `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Theo
|| |  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
|| `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
|+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thFox McCloud45
||`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
|`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022VanguardLH
| +- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
| `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022NY
|+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
|| +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
|| |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
|| | +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| | |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
|| | | `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
|| | |  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
|| | `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thThe Real Bev
|| |  +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
|| |  |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| |  ||`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
|| |  |+- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
|| |  |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thThe Real Bev
|| |  | `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thJoerg Lorenz
|| |  |  `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thThe Real Bev
|| |  |   `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thJoerg Lorenz
|| |  +- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
|| |  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thBob F
|| `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
||  |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  ||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
||  || `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  ||  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ant
||  |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAndy Burns
||  | `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  |  `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
||  |   `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  |    +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thJoerg Lorenz
||  |    |`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
||  |    `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
||  |     `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  |      `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
||  |       `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  |        `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Heron
||  |         `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
||  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thBig Al
||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| +- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Chris Green
|| `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022NY
||  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022NY
|| +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|| |`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|| ||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022mechanic
|| || +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| || |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|| || ||`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| || |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| || | `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thPaul
|| || `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
|| ||  +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|| ||  |`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli
|| ||  `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| ||   +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| ||   |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| ||   | `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| ||   |  +- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
|| ||   |  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| ||   `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| ||    +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thJoerg Lorenz
|| ||    |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| ||    ||+- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| ||    ||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Frank Slootweg
|| ||    || `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|| ||    |`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| ||    `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thThe Real Bev
|| ||+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|| |||`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| ||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thChris
|| || `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on MayRob
|| ||  `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| ||   +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| ||   |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Rob
|| ||   | `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Ken Blake
|| ||   +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thsms
|| ||   |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thThe Real Bev
|| ||   ||`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thJoerg Lorenz
|| ||   || `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thThe Real Bev
|| ||   ||  +* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on MayRob
|| ||   ||  +- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022nospam
|| ||   ||  +- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thAJL
|| ||   ||  `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thJoerg Lorenz
|| ||   |+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| ||   |`* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022mechanic
|| ||   `- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022J. P. Gilliver (John)
|| |`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
|| +- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022mechanic
|| `* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Mayayana
|`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thCarlos E.R.
+* Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30thJoerg Lorenz
`- Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022Andy Burnelli

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How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<svtg5b$r3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=28610&group=comp.mobile.android#28610

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone alt.comp.os.windows-10
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!Gj+613xB9sVIQxAtFideEw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2022 16:52:56 +0000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Fri, 4 Mar 2022 16:52 UTC

Do you have a solution that allows us to keep using a passwd in an MUA?

Did you get this message today in all your Google email accounts?
<https://i.postimg.cc/2yBvxJhJ/gmailpasswd02.jpg>

It implies Google is dropping third-party mail user agent passwd support.
<https://i.postimg.cc/MGfN2Z7r/gmailpasswd01.jpg>

Verbatim:
"On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using
less secure sign-in technology
To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support
the use of third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in
to your Google Account using only your username and password.

Instead, you'll need to sign in using Sign in with Google
or other more secure technologies, like OAuth 2.0."

I'm sure I'm like others in that I do _not_ want to use my phone to
authorize anything (not text, not 2FA, not my IP, nothing). I simply want a
login and a password and I don't want anything more than only that.

I'm not even sure if I want to use OATH2 (only if there is no other way).

I don't use Google applications if I can help it, so I use 3rd party MUAs on
all my platforms (K-9 Mail, Thunderbird, FairEmail, etc.).

Do you have any solution that allows us to keep using a password in an MUA?
--
Usenet is a team sport where each of us pitches in to help all the others.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<j8f40vF8gf1U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2022 18:27:42 +0000
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 by: Andy Burns - Fri, 4 Mar 2022 18:27 UTC

Andy Burnelli wrote: > I'm not even sure if I want to use OATH2 (only if there
is no other way).

I don't understand the reluctance to use oAuth2, it uses your same gmail
username and after you enter the same password once, it substitutes a "token",
then in future it logs in using username+token, instead of username+passord,
what's objectionable about that?

How does google suddenly invade your privacy any more than it does as an
IMAP/POP user?

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<svua52$qh9$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 00:16:31 +0000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 00:16 UTC

Andy Burns wrote:

> I don't understand the reluctance to use oAuth2,

Hi Andy,

Thanks for trying to help as I just want the simplest login that preserves
as much of my privacy as possible, where I'll _never_ want the phone to be
part of that authentication process. Never. Never. Never. Never. Never.

Google locks me out a lot (they _hate_ VPN for example), but even so, it may
be more complicated than you (or Google) intimate though as I just looked
and I _already_ have OATH2 set (or so it seems) on my Windows TB setup.
[Tools/AccountSettings/YourGmailAccount/ServerSettings/SecuritySettings/AuthenticationMethod]

Do you see anything wrong with this TB setup I just snapshotted for you?
<https://i.postimg.cc/432zCNgx/gmailpasswd03.jpg> Current Gmail OATH2 setup
--
Usenet isn't for amusement; it's for learning from and helping each other.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<j8glncFhb28U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 08:35:53 +0000
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In-Reply-To: <svua52$qh9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 08:35 UTC

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I don't understand the reluctance to use oAuth2,
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Thanks for trying to help as I just want the simplest login that preserves
> as much of my privacy as possible, where I'll _never_ want the phone to be
> part of that authentication process. Never. Never. Never. Never. Never.

so you should be happy enough, because the phone isn't involved in pop/imap
authentication

> Google locks me out a lot (they _hate_ VPN for example), but even so, it may
> be more complicated than you (or Google) intimate though as I just looked
> and I _already_ have OATH2 set (or so it seems) on my Windows TB setup.
> [Tools/AccountSettings/YourGmailAccount/ServerSettings/SecuritySettings/AuthenticationMethod]

yep, looks right.

> Do you see anything wrong with this TB setup I just snapshotted for you?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/432zCNgx/gmailpasswd03.jpg> Current Gmail OATH2 setup

same setup as mine, plus if you look in Tools/Preferences/Privacy/SavedPasswords
you'll see the token itself corresponding to the username, so TB knows it, it'll
only ever be sent within a TLS session, google can confirm it, nobody else sees it.

I would be reluctant to use oAuth2 to allow google to authenticate me to
non-google services, or any of the other "we trust them to authenticate you for
us" services.

You may be aware that Eran Hammer walked away from it? I don't know why Vimeo
wants people to login just to watch, but apparently it can be watched
anonymously when it's embedded in another page.

<https://hustoknow.blogspot.com/2012/12/oauth2-road-to-hell.html>

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 12:18:02 +0000
From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Reply-To: G6JPG@255soft.uk
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
References: <svtg5b$r3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j8f40vF8gf1U1@mid.individual.net>
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 12:18 UTC

On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 at 08:35:53, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
[]
>You may be aware that Eran Hammer walked away from it? I don't know
>why Vimeo wants people to login just to watch, but apparently it can be
>watched anonymously when it's embedded in another page.
>
><https://hustoknow.blogspot.com/2012/12/oauth2-road-to-hell.html>
>
So can you make your own such page (e. g. on your own computer?), or is
the "embedding" more complicated than that? If you can, I'm sure someone
with a little skill could automate the process of doing so into a batch
file or similar (even a browser extension?).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Do you want to be right, or friends?"
- a friend quoted by Vicky Ayech in UMRA, 2018-12-4

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<j8h5d4Fk82lU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:03:29 +0000
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In-Reply-To: <8CNPn5B6T1IiFwFz@a.a>
 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:03 UTC

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> So can you make your own such page (e. g. on your own computer?), or is the
> "embedding" more complicated than that?

Don't know, today is the first time I've noticed it wanting me to login (I could
understand if I wanted to thumbs-up videos, or save favourites) I've generally
regarded Vimeo as being for more-professional use than youtube ... e.g. creator
pays for hosting, no adverts, no recommendation of other people's videos)

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
Date: 05 Mar 2022 13:40:57 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Theo - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:40 UTC

In comp.mobile.android Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
> > So can you make your own such page (e. g. on your own computer?), or is the
> > "embedding" more complicated than that?
>
> Don't know, today is the first time I've noticed it wanting me to login (I could
> understand if I wanted to thumbs-up videos, or save favourites) I've generally
> regarded Vimeo as being for more-professional use than youtube ... e.g. creator
> pays for hosting, no adverts, no recommendation of other people's videos)

Apparently it's due to old videos not being 'rated'. Seems like they've
decided everything unrated (could be adult content etc) needs a login. And
so old videos that weren't rated because that wasn't a necessity at the time
are stuck behind a login wall.

Your page with embedded video didn't work for me - just got a blank space,
even with adblock turned off.

It may be a Europe-only thing:
https://cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/topic/89086-vimeo-enforcing-content-rating-for-all-public-videos/
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-tech-twitter-idUKKBN28J0I6

Theo

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
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 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:51 UTC

Theo wrote:

> Your page with embedded video didn't work for me - just got a blank space,
> even with adblock turned off.

ยฏ\_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

I have uBlock enabled, but all it blocks on that page is googleadsyndication.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:48 UTC

Andy Burns wrote:

>> Do you see anything wrong with this TB setup I just snapshotted for you?
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/432zCNgx/gmailpasswd03.jpg> Current Gmail OATH2 setup
>
> same setup as mine

Thank you for confirming as I am confused _why_ I'm getting this message.
a. It could be about Thunderbird or it could be about K-9 or some other MUA
b. Or, it may be only about my settings inside of my Google Account perhaps?

To check, on a VPN browser I logged into Google (which gave me hell but at
least they didn't disable my computer like Apple did for the same offense).

I seem to have "Less secure app access" turned on in my Google Account:
<https://i.postimg.cc/cL9r9qFW/gmailpasswd05.jpg>

Thunderbird is on but not K-9 for "Apps with access to your account".
<https://i.postimg.cc/MGs3HSyn/gmailpasswd04.jpg>
Yet, for now, both TB and K9 (Android) work just fine as far as I can tell.

I'm not sure what to do there, but I'm sure others have the same confusion.
Any advice is welcome as all I want is the minimum invasion & most utility.

> plus if you look in Tools/Preferences/Privacy/SavedPasswords
> you'll see the token itself corresponding to the username, so TB knows it, it'll
> only ever be sent within a TLS session, google can confirm it, nobody else sees it.

Ah. That helped a lot! Now I see it was last changed on July 7th, 2021, most
likely in response to a nastigram by Google as I don't usually touch it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/RhHkj4gJ/gmailpasswd06.jpg>
Which, transcribed, amounts to the following (I would think typical) setup:
imap://imap.gmail.com (imap://imap.gmail.com) login@gmail.com 7/7/2021
oauth://accounts.google.com (https://mail.google.com.com) login@gmail.com 7/7/2021
smtp://smtp.gmail.com (smtp://imap.gmail.com) login@gmail.com 7/7/2021
> I would be reluctant to use oAuth2 to allow google to authenticate me to
> non-google services, or any of the other "we trust them to authenticate you for
> us" services.

I don't even understand what you meant by that, but I don't use _any_ Google
Services (such as their gCloud services) in the least that I know of anyway.
> You may be aware that Eran Hammer walked away from it?

I'm never afraid to admit I don't know something (unless it's a cop asking
me if I know how fast I was going and then I'll claim the speed limit).

I am ignorant of who Eran Hammer is, but, luckily, ignorance can be cured...
*OAuth 2.0 leader resigns, says standard is 'bad'*
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/oauth-2-0-leader-resigns-says-standard-is-bad/>
"The standard grew too far away from its roots as a simple Web
authentication technology, author Eran Hammer-Lahav says,
and now is insecure and overly broad."

> I don't know why Vimeo
> wants people to login just to watch, but apparently it can be watched
> anonymously when it's embedded in another page.
> <https://hustoknow.blogspot.com/2012/12/oauth2-road-to-hell.html>

Thanks for that last ever OAuth talk video. "Death by a million cuts".
Unfortunately he can't wear his own Oath branded t-shirt in his own house!

He seems to be much like I am in terms of brutal honesty, both self honesty,
and in unafraid condemnation of the actions by the big powers that control.
--
Usenet is a team sport where each person adds unique value in their own way.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: me...@privacy.invalid (NY)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:08:33 -0000
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 by: NY - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:08 UTC

"Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:svtg5b$r3a$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> Do you have a solution that allows us to keep using a passwd in an MUA?
>
> Did you get this message today in all your Google email accounts?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/2yBvxJhJ/gmailpasswd02.jpg>
>
> It implies Google is dropping third-party mail user agent passwd support.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/MGfN2Z7r/gmailpasswd01.jpg>
>
> Verbatim:
> "On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in
> technology
> To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use
> of third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google
> Account using only your username and password.
> Instead, you'll need to sign in using Sign in with Google or other more
> secure technologies, like OAuth 2.0."
>
> I'm sure I'm like others in that I do _not_ want to use my phone to
> authorize anything (not text, not 2FA, not my IP, nothing). I simply want
> a
> login and a password and I don't want anything more than only that.
>
> I'm not even sure if I want to use OATH2 (only if there is no other way).
>
> I don't use Google applications if I can help it, so I use 3rd party MUAs
> on
> all my platforms (K-9 Mail, Thunderbird, FairEmail, etc.).

What POP email clients are there which will support the new authentication
which Gmail will introduce?

I currently use Windows Live Mail on Windows 7 and Thunderbird on Windows
10. I also use the default email client (just called "Email") V6.1.61.1 that
is supplied with my Samsung Galaxy S7 Android phone.

I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC (using
POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for backing them
up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally deleted), rather than
webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the server and you have to be
online whenever you want to read them.

Will I have to switch to Webmail and/or a proprietary Gmail email client for
accessing that account (and a separate POP email client such as Thunderbird
for my various other email accounts)?

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
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 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:21 UTC

NY wrote:

>
> What POP email clients are there which will support the new authentication
> which Gmail will introduce?

Thunderbird certainly supports oAuth

WLM ... no idea if it supports oAuth, but even after "less secure apps" goes
away, if you have 2FA enabled on your google account you should be able to
create an "app specific password" for any IMAP/POP client.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: Bea...@invalid.com (Big Al)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:22:35 -0500
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 by: Big Al - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 19:22 UTC

On 3/5/22 13:08, this is what NY wrote:
> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC (using POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for
> backing them up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally deleted), rather than webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the
> server and you have to be online whenever you want to read them.

That was a feature I did like but I have too many devices I need my mail on so IMAP seems to solve that issue. However I have local folders
on my laptop (the main device) and anything that is worth noting is dragged into those folders and saved. So at least get 1/2 of your plan
by copying them there so I can back them up. If gmail wants to lose my How-To-Geek daily newsletter and reminder for my doc visit next
week, they can.

Al

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Reply-To: G6JPG@255soft.uk
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 19:30 UTC

On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 at 14:22:35, Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
>On 3/5/22 13:08, this is what NY wrote:
>> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC
>>(using POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for
>>backing them up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally
>>deleted), rather than webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the
>>server and you have to be online whenever you want to read them.
>
>That was a feature I did like but I have too many devices I need my
>mail on so IMAP seems to solve that issue. However I have local

Unless you have a folder structure, you can have POP on multiple devices
- just set them all to "leave messages on server" (or, as my friend
does, all but one, and only get email[s] on that one last). That's
assuming you can actually _find_ a POP client on all the devices you
want email on.

>folders on my laptop (the main device) and anything that is worth
>noting is dragged into those folders and saved. So at least get 1/2 of
>your plan by copying them there so I can back them up. If gmail wants
>to lose my How-To-Geek daily newsletter and reminder for my doc visit
>next week, they can.

I'd worry about the doc reminder, if I was relying on it as the only
reminder. (I have a paper written-on calendar!)
>
>Al
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Eve had an Apple, Adam had a Wang...

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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 by: Chris Green - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 19:39 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 at 14:22:35, Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote (my
> responses usually FOLLOW):
> >On 3/5/22 13:08, this is what NY wrote:
> >> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC
> >>(using POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for
> >>backing them up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally
> >>deleted), rather than webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the
> >>server and you have to be online whenever you want to read them.
> >
> >That was a feature I did like but I have too many devices I need my
> >mail on so IMAP seems to solve that issue. However I have local
>
> Unless you have a folder structure, you can have POP on multiple devices
> - just set them all to "leave messages on server" (or, as my friend
> does, all but one, and only get email[s] on that one last). That's
> assuming you can actually _find_ a POP client on all the devices you
> want email on.
>
> >folders on my laptop (the main device) and anything that is worth
> >noting is dragged into those folders and saved. So at least get 1/2 of
> >your plan by copying them there so I can back them up. If gmail wants
> >to lose my How-To-Geek daily newsletter and reminder for my doc visit
> >next week, they can.
>
> I'd worry about the doc reminder, if I was relying on it as the only
> reminder. (I have a paper written-on calendar!)

.... or do what I do. Have E-Mail delivered to my server (actually my
desktop machine at home) and read it remotely by logging in using ssh.

To do this from Android I have termux on my Android phone.

--
Chris Green
ยท

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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 by: nospam - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 19:58 UTC

In article <t0091r$n8t$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC (using
> POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for backing them
> up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally deleted), rather than
> webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the server and you have to be
> online whenever you want to read them.

imap can easily download email to your computer.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: me...@privacy.invalid (NY)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
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 by: NY - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:47 UTC

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message
news:k+BJoyLJp7IiFwl+@a.a...
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 at 14:22:35, Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote (my
> responses usually FOLLOW):
>>On 3/5/22 13:08, this is what NY wrote:
>>> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC (using
>>> POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for backing
>>> them up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally deleted),
>>> rather than webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the server and
>>> you have to be online whenever you want to read them.
>>
>>That was a feature I did like but I have too many devices I need my mail
>>on so IMAP seems to solve that issue. However I have local
>
> Unless you have a folder structure, you can have POP on multiple devices -
> just set them all to "leave messages on server" (or, as my friend does,
> all but one, and only get email[s] on that one last). That's assuming you
> can actually _find_ a POP client on all the devices you want email on.

That's what I do. My Windows 7 / WLM PC is the "master" which is set to
delete messages 28 days after downloading. My Win 10 / Thunderbird laptop
and my Android phone are set to "never delete" so they can be the first
device that sees a new incoming message, but I can be confident that it will
remain on the POP server to be downloaded onto WLM for filing (if necessary)
or else deletion.

IMAP is a great idea but it is too prone to one of the devices accidentally
deleting a message such that is it no longer available for filing. And it
means you cannot read your existing messages (especially on the phone) in a
place that has no internet access. IMAP and a mail client is little better
than webmail.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
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 by: NY - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:49 UTC

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:050320221458163330%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <t0091r$n8t$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC (using
>> POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for backing
>> them
>> up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally deleted), rather
>> than
>> webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the server and you have to
>> be
>> online whenever you want to read them.
>
> imap can easily download email to your computer.

Can it? How do you configure it to do that? I thought that if you received
your email by IMAP it never left the server, apart from when the client
downloads a transient copy of it to read, which was erased when you closed
the mail app.

What is the big advantage of IMAP over POP?

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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 by: nospam - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:12 UTC

In article <t00lv9$tdr$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> IMAP is a great idea but it is too prone to one of the devices accidentally
> deleting a message such that is it no longer available for filing.

deleting email normally moves it to the trash folder, where it can be
retrieved, usually within 30 days.

> And it
> means you cannot read your existing messages (especially on the phone) in a
> place that has no internet access.

if you don't have internet access, email won't be the only thing you
can't do.

> IMAP and a mail client is little better
> than webmail.

webmail is a front end to imap.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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 by: nospam - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:12 UTC

In article <t00lv9$tdr$2@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> >> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC (using
> >> POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for backing
> >> them
> >> up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally deleted), rather
> >> than
> >> webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the server and you have to
> >> be
> >> online whenever you want to read them.
> >
> > imap can easily download email to your computer.
>
> Can it?

absolutely.

> How do you configure it to do that?

by creating filters to automatically move messages to one or more local
mailboxes, manually move them if you prefer, or a mix of both.

the filters can help sort email into different mailboxes based on
whatever criteria you want, such as who the sender is, keywords in the
subject, etc.

> I thought that if you received
> your email by IMAP it never left the server,

that's how it's commonly used because it's the most flexible, but it's
not the only way.

> apart from when the client
> downloads a transient copy of it to read, which was erased when you closed
> the mail app.

email apps keep a local copy of what's on the server and can be used
offline, including after being closed and re-opened.

> What is the big advantage of IMAP over POP?

that it does everything pop can do and quite a bit more as well as not
being obsolete.

some mail providers and email clients no longer support pop at all.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 01:37 UTC

On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 at 21:49:43, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
[]
>What is the big advantage of IMAP over POP?

Oh, you'll start religion-type wars with that question (-:!

IMAP is more modern and more complicated, "and therefore better". It
allows you to set up folder structure, filtering rules, etc., that
synchronise across multiple devices; if you're the sort of person who
does that (or would like to), then it's for you. It has intrinsically a
_sort of_ backup - equally, there's the danger that deleting an email
accidentally on one machine will eventually (possibly immediately,
depending on how you configure things) cause it to be deleted on all
your devices. In its purest form, it requires an always-on connection,
but several IMAP clients _do_ enable some local offline storage.

Each protocol suits some people better. Service providers seem to prefer
IMAP - at least, use it by default, and assume you're using it. (I'm not
sure if there are some providers who _only_ do IMAP; I wouldn't be at
all surprised if someone found a _device_ [OS] for which only IMAP is
available.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You can believe it if it helps you to sleep. - Quoted by Tom Lehrer (on
religion, in passing), April 2013.
(Apparently he was quoting James Taylor's "Sweet Baby James".)

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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 by: nospam - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 01:42 UTC

In article <lDVZnXVdBBJiFwOg@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> Each protocol suits some people better. Service providers seem to prefer
> IMAP - at least, use it by default, and assume you're using it. (I'm not
> sure if there are some providers who _only_ do IMAP; I wouldn't be at
> all surprised if someone found a _device_ [OS] for which only IMAP is
> available.)

it's not the device or os that limits it, but rather the email client
and/or email provider, some of which are only imap.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
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 by: The Real Bev - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 06:03 UTC

On 03/05/2022 05:37 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> In its purest form, it requires an always-on connection,
> but several IMAP clients _do_ enable some local offline storage.

That in itself is frightening. My email is, in effect, a record of my
life. It's MINE.

If I switch my gmail accounts to IMAP, will I no longer have my incoming
mail stored by Thunderbird on my own computer?

> Each protocol suits some people better. Service providers seem to prefer
> IMAP - at least, use it by default, and assume you're using it. (I'm not
> sure if there are some providers who _only_ do IMAP; I wouldn't be at
> all surprised if someone found a _device_ [OS] for which only IMAP is
> available.)

Chromebooks?

--
Cheers, Bev
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
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Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<060320220107021819%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=28743&group=comp.mobile.android#28743

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2022 01:07:02 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Message-ID: <060320220107021819%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <svtg5b$r3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t0091r$n8t$1@dont-email.me> <050320221458163330%nospam@nospam.invalid> <t00lv9$tdr$2@dont-email.me> <lDVZnXVdBBJiFwOg@a.a> <t01iqo$dcs$1@dont-email.me>
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logging-data="15038"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/EmJYMZmonbx7l3kGUQ0VY"
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 by: nospam - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 06:07 UTC

In article <t01iqo$dcs$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> If I switch my gmail accounts to IMAP, will I no longer have my incoming
> mail stored by Thunderbird on my own computer?

there's nothing to switch and mail can be stored wherever you want,
regardless of protocol used to access it.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<e85efi-hj1.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=28750&group=comp.mobile.android#28750

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2022 08:42:38 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <t0091r$n8t$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Carlos E.R. - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 07:42 UTC

On 2022-03-05 19:08, NY wrote:
> "Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:svtg5b$r3a$1@gioia.aioe.org...

> What POP email clients are there which will support the new authentication
> which Gmail will introduce?
>
> I currently use Windows Live Mail on Windows 7 and Thunderbird on Windows
> 10. I also use the default email client (just called "Email") V6.1.61.1
> that
> is supplied with my Samsung Galaxy S7 Android phone.
>
> I much prefer a mail client which transfers the messages to my PC (using
> POP) so I can read them offline and so I can be responsible for backing
> them up (and retrieving a message that I have accidentally deleted),
> rather than webmail or IMAP where the messages remain on the server and
> you have to be online whenever you want to read them.

This is not exact.

On some clients, the messages on the imap folders can be locally cached
and read offline. For example, Thunderbird supports this.

Another strategy is to move email from the imap folder into a local
folder. This can be manual or automatic; it can be done as soon as email
arrives, or after being read. Again, Thunderbird supports this.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th 2022

<k38efi-d94.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=28752&group=comp.mobile.android#28752

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: How to recover from Google dropping password support on May 30th
2022
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2022 09:31:16 +0100
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<050320221458163330%nospam@nospam.invalid> <t00lv9$tdr$2@dont-email.me>
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In-Reply-To: <060320220107021819%nospam@nospam.invalid>
 by: Carlos E.R. - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 08:31 UTC

On 2022-03-06 07:07, nospam wrote:
> In article <t01iqo$dcs$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If I switch my gmail accounts to IMAP, will I no longer have my incoming
>> mail stored by Thunderbird on my own computer?
>
> there's nothing to switch and mail can be stored wherever you want,
> regardless of protocol used to access it.

Correct.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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