Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)

So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.

Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?

Andy

On 6/22/2023 10:03 PM, Andy Green wrote:
> Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
>
> So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
>
> Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
>
> Andy
>

My understanding is that somewhere along the path you're going to run into a
device that does not handle DECnet. Perhaps every device you run into. You'd
need IP addresses to even reach remote systems.

Perhaps an IP tunnel would work. Not familiar with that.

Multinet is reputed to route DECnet using IP packets, I've been told. Never
used it myself.

While I don't recommend phase V, I'm told it will route using IP.

I guess it depends upon your intentions, however, using TCP/IP you should be
able to talk between the systems. But not phase IV DECnet.

Me, I'd much prefer V7.3 over earlier versions. V7.2 I believe enhanced
directory operations.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

I use this to connect my home decnet to hecnet network:
http://mim.stupi.net/pydecnet.htm .
Works very well.

Dana petak, 23. lipnja 2023. u 07:38:55 UTC+2 korisnik Dave Froble napisao je:
> On 6/22/2023 10:03 PM, Andy Green wrote:
> > Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
> >
> > So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
> >
> > Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> My understanding is that somewhere along the path you're going to run into a
> device that does not handle DECnet. Perhaps every device you run into. You'd
> need IP addresses to even reach remote systems.
>
> Perhaps an IP tunnel would work. Not familiar with that.
>
> Multinet is reputed to route DECnet using IP packets, I've been told. Never
> used it myself.
>
> While I don't recommend phase V, I'm told it will route using IP.
>
> I guess it depends upon your intentions, however, using TCP/IP you should be
> able to talk between the systems. But not phase IV DECnet.
>
> Me, I'd much prefer V7.3 over earlier versions. V7.2 I believe enhanced
> directory operations.
>
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 2023-06-23 04:03, Andy Green wrote:
> Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)

There are still crazy people around. ;-)

> So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
>
> Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?

Several ways. As mentioned, if you have Multinet installed instead of
UCX, then you can setup DECnet circuits that runs over IP. So you can
connect any nodes that can just talk IP to each other.

Another option mentioned is PyDECnet. This also runs Multinet-compatible
links over IP. But in addition, it's a full phase IV routing node. So
you can have that on an adjacent machine with ethernet connectivity to
your VMS host. And then have PyDECnet route the packets from your local
ethernet over a link on IP to the remote end. Remote end can run
PyDECnet, or Multinet on VMS (or even RSX, which also support this).

Johnny

Den 2023-06-23 kl. 04:03, skrev Andy Green:

> I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other.

What does "talk" mean more specifically?
Application to application?
File transfer?
Or what?

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 1:38:55 AM UTC-4, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 6/22/2023 10:03 PM, Andy Green wrote:
> > Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
> >
> > So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
> >
> > Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> My understanding is that somewhere along the path you're going to run into a
> device that does not handle DECnet. Perhaps every device you run into. You'd
> need IP addresses to even reach remote systems.
>
> Perhaps an IP tunnel would work. Not familiar with that.
>
> Multinet is reputed to route DECnet using IP packets, I've been told. Never
> used it myself.
>
> While I don't recommend phase V, I'm told it will route using IP.
>
> I guess it depends upon your intentions, however, using TCP/IP you should be
> able to talk between the systems. But not phase IV DECnet.
>
> Me, I'd much prefer V7.3 over earlier versions. V7.2 I believe enhanced
> directory operations.
>
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

You are correct. Back in 2012 my employer was told that Cisco would no longer be supporting DECnet packets in their routers so we had better prepare for that change. At the time we had a lot of VAX/VMS (some emulated) and Alpha/OpenVMS machines that were copying message files via DECnet so I was invited to be part of the team that would keep those systems running. At that time most machines were running TCPware but some had only licensed the basic stack along with a few apps like telnet and ftp. Anyway, all these systems were upgraded to full licenses so we could implement DECnet tunneling and it worked like a charm.

A few years later my employer began getting serious with IPv6. Not sure if things have changed at PSC (Process Software Corp) but they informed me that TCPware would never support IPv6 while their other product called MultiNet already did. So in 2015 when we migrated one of our systems from Alpha to Itanium, we also migrated from TCPware to MultiNet. That product employs a different configuration paradigm but it has never given me any problems.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net
http://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

So your post got me curious and I checked out hecnet... how can I get connected? I emailed the guy to see about getting connected but haven't heard back from him yet... is it very active?

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 1:46:11 AM UTC-4, Crni Mrki wrote:
> I use this to connect my home decnet to hecnet network:
> http://mim.stupi.net/pydecnet.htm .
> Works very well.
> Dana petak, 23. lipnja 2023. u 07:38:55 UTC+2 korisnik Dave Froble napisao je:
> > On 6/22/2023 10:03 PM, Andy Green wrote:
> > > Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
> > >
> > > So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
> > >
> > > Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > My understanding is that somewhere along the path you're going to run into a
> > device that does not handle DECnet. Perhaps every device you run into. You'd
> > need IP addresses to even reach remote systems.
> >
> > Perhaps an IP tunnel would work. Not familiar with that.
> >
> > Multinet is reputed to route DECnet using IP packets, I've been told. Never
> > used it myself.
> >
> > While I don't recommend phase V, I'm told it will route using IP.
> >
> > I guess it depends upon your intentions, however, using TCP/IP you should be
> > able to talk between the systems. But not phase IV DECnet.
> >
> > Me, I'd much prefer V7.3 over earlier versions. V7.2 I believe enhanced
> > directory operations.
> >
> > --
> > David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> > DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> > 170 Grimplin Road
> > Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Basically just the ability to "set host" into various machines and copy files back and forth...

(I've been tinkering with PyDECnet as someone else suggest, in the middle of giving that a go)

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 4:13:17 AM UTC-4, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2023-06-23 kl. 04:03, skrev Andy Green:
>
> > I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other.
> What does "talk" mean more specifically?
> Application to application?
> File transfer?
> Or what?

Den 2023-06-26 kl. 04:28, skrev Andy Green:
> Basically just the ability to "set host" into various machines and copy files back and forth...

OK. Haven't used DECnet for anything for over 20 years.

To login to "another machine", I simply open a new Putty session.
To copy files, we use FTP.

I just asked to see if you used any unique features of DECnet.

You mailed me? I haven't seen anything.

Johnny

On 2023-06-26 04:27, Andy Green wrote:
> So your post got me curious and I checked out hecnet... how can I get connected? I emailed the guy to see about getting connected but haven't heard back from him yet... is it very active?
>
>
>
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 1:46:11 AM UTC-4, Crni Mrki wrote:
>> I use this to connect my home decnet to hecnet network:
>> http://mim.stupi.net/pydecnet.htm .
>> Works very well.
>> Dana petak, 23. lipnja 2023. u 07:38:55 UTC+2 korisnik Dave Froble napisao je:
>>> On 6/22/2023 10:03 PM, Andy Green wrote:
>>>> Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
>>>>
>>>> So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
>>>>
>>>> Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>> My understanding is that somewhere along the path you're going to run into a
>>> device that does not handle DECnet. Perhaps every device you run into. You'd
>>> need IP addresses to even reach remote systems.
>>>
>>> Perhaps an IP tunnel would work. Not familiar with that.
>>>
>>> Multinet is reputed to route DECnet using IP packets, I've been told. Never
>>> used it myself.
>>>
>>> While I don't recommend phase V, I'm told it will route using IP.
>>>
>>> I guess it depends upon your intentions, however, using TCP/IP you should be
>>> able to talk between the systems. But not phase IV DECnet.
>>>
>>> Me, I'd much prefer V7.3 over earlier versions. V7.2 I believe enhanced
>>> directory operations.
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
>>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
>>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
>>> 170 Grimplin Road
>>> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 10:03:58 PM UTC-4, Andy Green wrote:
> Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
>
> So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
>
> Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
>
> Andy

I ran Decnet Phase IV over IP for over 30 nodes back in the early 2000s. It ran on TCPware beautifully.

You can run it in an encrypted tunnel for a cost I was told by a TCPware rep.

Yeah! Just emailed you again! To an email address that has "mim" in it!

On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 3:04:28 PM UTC-4, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> You mailed me? I haven't seen anything.
>
> Johnny
> On 2023-06-26 04:27, Andy Green wrote:
> > So your post got me curious and I checked out hecnet... how can I get connected? I emailed the guy to see about getting connected but haven't heard back from him yet... is it very active?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 1:46:11 AM UTC-4, Crni Mrki wrote:
> >> I use this to connect my home decnet to hecnet network:
> >> http://mim.stupi.net/pydecnet.htm .
> >> Works very well.
> >> Dana petak, 23. lipnja 2023. u 07:38:55 UTC+2 korisnik Dave Froble napisao je:
> >>> On 6/22/2023 10:03 PM, Andy Green wrote:
> >>>> Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
> >>>>
> >>>> So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
> >>>>
> >>>> Andy
> >>>>
> >>> My understanding is that somewhere along the path you're going to run into a
> >>> device that does not handle DECnet. Perhaps every device you run into.. You'd
> >>> need IP addresses to even reach remote systems.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps an IP tunnel would work. Not familiar with that.
> >>>
> >>> Multinet is reputed to route DECnet using IP packets, I've been told. Never
> >>> used it myself.
> >>>
> >>> While I don't recommend phase V, I'm told it will route using IP.
> >>>
> >>> I guess it depends upon your intentions, however, using TCP/IP you should be
> >>> able to talk between the systems. But not phase IV DECnet.
> >>>
> >>> Me, I'd much prefer V7.3 over earlier versions. V7.2 I believe enhanced
> >>> directory operations.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> >>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> >>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> >>> 170 Grimplin Road
> >>> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Thanks for the tip on this, I set it up and got it to work! I have two Raspberry Pi's running as routers on either end of the network, and I got DECnet running between my home systems and the ones in our office! Really neat!

Andy

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 5:10:07 AM UTC-4, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On 2023-06-23 04:03, Andy Green wrote:
> > Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
> There are still crazy people around. ;-)
> > So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
> >
> > Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
> Several ways. As mentioned, if you have Multinet installed instead of
> UCX, then you can setup DECnet circuits that runs over IP. So you can
> connect any nodes that can just talk IP to each other.
>
> Another option mentioned is PyDECnet. This also runs Multinet-compatible
> links over IP. But in addition, it's a full phase IV routing node. So
> you can have that on an adjacent machine with ethernet connectivity to
> your VMS host. And then have PyDECnet route the packets from your local
> ethernet over a link on IP to the remote end. Remote end can run
> PyDECnet, or Multinet on VMS (or even RSX, which also support this).
>
> Johnny

And now you are online. :-D

Johnny

On 2023-07-22 13:56, Andy Green wrote:
> Yeah! Just emailed you again! To an email address that has "mim" in it!
>
>
> On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 3:04:28 PM UTC-4, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> You mailed me? I haven't seen anything.
>>
>> Johnny
>> On 2023-06-26 04:27, Andy Green wrote:
>>> So your post got me curious and I checked out hecnet... how can I get connected? I emailed the guy to see about getting connected but haven't heard back from him yet... is it very active?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 1:46:11 AM UTC-4, Crni Mrki wrote:
>>>> I use this to connect my home decnet to hecnet network:
>>>> http://mim.stupi.net/pydecnet.htm .
>>>> Works very well.
>>>> Dana petak, 23. lipnja 2023. u 07:38:55 UTC+2 korisnik Dave Froble napisao je:
>>>>> On 6/22/2023 10:03 PM, Andy Green wrote:
>>>>>> Holy cow, I'm so happy to see such an active community here after all these years :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I have a question for the experts; I have two VMS 5.5-2 systems that I'd like to have talk to each other. The problem is they're in different locations, but they are connected over the Internet. They are both Phase IV end nodes and they're both running UCX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there some way I can get the two of them to talk DECnet Phase IV to each other over the Internet? I have the option of putting OpenVMS 7.3 full routing nodes (running Phase IV, preferably) in between them to act as "translators", if that would work?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding is that somewhere along the path you're going to run into a
>>>>> device that does not handle DECnet. Perhaps every device you run into. You'd
>>>>> need IP addresses to even reach remote systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps an IP tunnel would work. Not familiar with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Multinet is reputed to route DECnet using IP packets, I've been told. Never
>>>>> used it myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I don't recommend phase V, I'm told it will route using IP.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess it depends upon your intentions, however, using TCP/IP you should be
>>>>> able to talk between the systems. But not phase IV DECnet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me, I'd much prefer V7.3 over earlier versions. V7.2 I believe enhanced
>>>>> directory operations.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
>>>>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
>>>>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
>>>>> 170 Grimplin Road
>>>>> Vanderbilt, PA 15486