On 2023-06-22, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 6/22/2023 9:09 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> They now have said that the VMS systems can be left to the Indian
>> company that they have an agreement with.
>> I?d say that ?the jury is still out? on that one? ?
>
> I predict problems.
>
> Based on what you have posted over the years then they will
> need people with skills in: VMS system management,
> Cobol, Rdb, VMS programming (system services), Python,
> WASD, message queues.
>
> That means either a rare skill combo or a mid size team.
>

On the plus side, there's likely to be a new set of people around
here asking newcomer questions, so we can have a different set of
discussions. :-)

On the bad side, I really hope Jan-Erik has made a _permanent_ copy
of his current system and network configuration documentation that
cannot be changed by these newcomers.

I can see people trying to somehow blame him if they screw it up.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 6/23/2023 8:06 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-06-22, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 6/22/2023 9:09 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> They now have said that the VMS systems can be left to the Indian
>>> company that they have an agreement with.
>>> I?d say that ?the jury is still out? on that one? ?
>>
>> I predict problems.
>>
>> Based on what you have posted over the years then they will
>> need people with skills in: VMS system management,
>> Cobol, Rdb, VMS programming (system services), Python,
>> WASD, message queues.
>>
>> That means either a rare skill combo or a mid size team.
>>
>
> On the plus side, there's likely to be a new set of people around
> here asking newcomer questions, so we can have a different set of
> discussions. :-)
>
> On the bad side, I really hope Jan-Erik has made a _permanent_ copy
> of his current system and network configuration documentation that
> cannot be changed by these newcomers.
>
> I can see people trying to somehow blame him if they screw it up.
>
> Simon.
>

I don't see where it matters.

It appears that some "management decision" has occurred. No matter how good, or
bad, don't expect such management types to ever admit they were wrong, or made a
bad decision. It just won't happen. Been there, seen that. The story will
always be that "it is someone else's fault".

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 2023-06-23, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>
> I don't see where it matters.
>

If the people who have taken over Jan-Erik's job screw up, they may try
to somehow wrongly blame him for their own mistake. That's why it matters.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 6/23/2023 1:18 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-06-23, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't see where it matters.
>>
>
> If the people who have taken over Jan-Erik's job screw up, they may try
> to somehow wrongly blame him for their own mistake. That's why it matters.
>
> Simon.
>

Oh, I agree. But do you think that Jan-Erik will even hear about it, let alone
be asked about it? The last thing the new consultants would want to do is give
anyone a chance to show that they should not have been given the new contract.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 6/23/2023 1:18 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-06-23, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't see where it matters.
>>
>
> If the people who have taken over Jan-Erik's job screw up, they may try
> to somehow wrongly blame him for their own mistake. That's why it matters.
>
> Simon.
>

Just thinking, what if the new people come to JAn-Erik for any help. I'd hope
he would quote them some outrageous price.

:-)

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 23/06/2023 21:51, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 6/23/2023 1:18 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-06-23, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see where it matters.
>>>
>>
>> If the people who have taken over Jan-Erik's job screw up, they may try
>> to somehow wrongly blame him for their own mistake. That's why it
>> matters.
>>
>> Simon.
>>
>
> Just thinking, what if the new people come to JAn-Erik for any help.
> I'd hope he would quote them some outrageous price.
>
> :-)
>

Surely only a slightly outrageous price ;)

--
Chris

Den 2023-06-23 kl. 22:49, skrev Dave Froble:
> On 6/23/2023 1:18 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-06-23, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see where it matters.
>>>
>>
>> If the people who have taken over Jan-Erik's job screw up, they may try
>> to somehow wrongly blame him for their own mistake. That's why it matters.
>>
>> Simon.
>>
>
> Oh, I agree.  But do you think that Jan-Erik will even hear about it, let
> alone be asked about it?  The last thing the new consultants would want to
> do is give anyone a chance to show that they should not have been given the
> new contract.
>

There is no "new" people or consultans. The same group that I have been
helping over the years just continues, without my help. The only change
is that I will not be around to help after Friday 30 June.

Simon wrote:
> I really hope Jan-Erik has made a _permanent_ copy
> of his current system and network configuration documentation

Documentation? :-)

My work is mainly around application design and knowledge around the
production processes. And I'm also the Rdb DBA. The basic VMS system
admin tasks was moved to another group 1-2 years ago.

We'll see. Either everything works just fine. Or there might come a
request for some on-call contract. Will be evaluated if that happens.

Apart from that, I'll focus on hobbies, family and such.

On 6/22/2023 2:48 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2023-06-22 kl. 02:03, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>> Just for fun I tried writing some code.
>>
>> I tested with read, because it is easy to recreate timeout
>> for read.
>>
>> First the standard IO$M_TIMED as baseline:
>>
>>        program r
>>        implicit none
>>        include '($ssdef)'
>>        include '($iodef)'
>>        integer*1 buf(1)
>>        integer*2 chan, iosb(4)
>>        integer*4 stat, tmo
>>        integer*4 sys$assign, sys$qiow, sys$dassgn
>>        external sys$assign, sys$qiow, sys$dassgn
>>        stat = sys$assign('TT:', chan, , , )
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        tmo = 10
>>        write(*,*) 'Press a key within ', tmo, ' seconds'
>>        stat = sys$qiow(, %val(chan), %val(IO$_READVBLK+IO$M_TIMED),
>>       +                iosb, , ,
>>       +                buf, %val(1), %val(tmo), , , )
>>        if(stat.eq.SS$_NORMAL.and.iosb(1).eq.SS$_TIMEOUT) then
>>          write(*,*) 'Arne you are too slow'
>>          goto 100
>>        end if
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        if(iosb(1).ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(iosb(1))
>>        write(*,*) 'You entered code: ', buf
>> 100   stat = sys$dassgn(%val(chan))
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        end
>> c
>>        subroutine ooops(stat)
>>        implicit none
>>        integer*4 stat
>>        write(*,*) 'status = ', stat
>>        stop
>>        end
>>
>> Now an implementation of my idea:
>>
>>        program r1
>>        implicit none
>>        include '($ssdef)'
>>        include '($iodef)'
>>        integer*1 buf(1)
>>        integer*2 chan, iosb(4)
>>        integer*4 stat, tmo
>>        integer*8 tmo2
>>        integer*4 sys$assign, sys$qiow, sys$dassgn
>>        external sys$assign, sys$qiow, sys$dassgn
>>        external done
>>        stat = sys$assign('TT:', chan, , , )
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        tmo = 10
>>        write(*,*) 'Press a key within ', tmo, ' seconds'
>>        tmo2 = -tmo * 10000000
>>        call sys$setimr(, tmo2, done, chan, )
>>        stat = sys$qiow(, %val(chan), %val(IO$_READVBLK),
>>       +                iosb, , ,
>>       +                buf, %val(1), , , , )
>>        if(stat.eq.SS$_NORMAL.and.iosb(1).eq.SS$_ABORT) then
>>          write(*,*) 'Arne you are too slow'
>>          goto 100
>>        end if
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        if(iosb(1).ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(iosb(1))
>>        call sys$cantim(0, )
>>        write(*,*) 'You entered code: ', buf
>> 100   stat = sys$dassgn(%val(chan))
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        end
>> c
>>        subroutine ooops(stat)
>>        implicit none
>>        integer*4 stat
>>        write(*,*) 'status = ', stat
>>        stop
>>        end
>> c
>>        subroutine done(chan)
>>        implicit none
>>        integer*2 chan
>>        call sys$cancel(%val(chan))
>>        return
>>        end
>>
>> And then how I interpret your suggestion:
>>
>>        program r2
>>        implicit none
>>        include '($ssdef)'
>>        include '($iodef)'
>>        integer*1 buf(1)
>>        integer*2 chan, iosb(4)
>>        integer*4 stat, tmo
>>        integer*8 tmo2
>>        integer*4 sys$assign, sys$qio, sys$dassgn
>>        external sys$assign, sys$qio, sys$dassgn
>>        external done
>>        stat = sys$assign('TT:', chan, , , )
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        tmo = 10
>>        write(*,*) 'Press a key within ', tmo, ' seconds'
>>        stat = sys$qio(, %val(chan), %val(IO$_READVBLK),
>>       +               iosb, done, ,
>>       +               buf, %val(1), , , , )
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        tmo2 = -tmo * 10000000
>>        call sys$schdwk(, , tmo2, )
>>        call sys$hiber()
>>        if(iosb(1).eq.0) then
>>          write(*,*) 'Arne you are too slow'
>>          goto 100
>>        end if
>>        if(iosb(1).ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(iosb(1))
>>        write(*,*) 'You entered code: ', buf
>> 100   stat = sys$dassgn(%val(chan))
>>        if(stat.ne.SS$_NORMAL) call ooops(stat)
>>        end
>> c
>>        subroutine ooops(stat)
>>        implicit none
>>        integer*4 stat
>>        write(*,*) 'status = ', stat
>>        stop
>>        end
>> c
>>        subroutine done
>>        implicit none
>>        call sys$wake(, )
>>        return
>>        end
>>
>> And sorry for doing it in Fortran. But it would have taken me
>> way more time to do in Cobol. And translating from Fortran to
>> Cobol is probably easier than from C to Cobol. So Fortran
>> it is.
>
> Will check, but yes, it sounds as we are on the same track.
> And our I/O routines are in C and called from Cobol. But yes,
> as far as I know, one could also write it in pure Cobol. :-)
>
> The benefit with your timer/ast based solution is of course that,
> when everything works fine (as it does in most cases), there is
> no added delay in the routine. AS I thought, there would always
> be the same delay no matter if it works or not.
>
> Most doc examples are in C, so that is probably why the I/O
> routine was written in C (in 1993 in this case).

C versions:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

#include <ssdef.h>
#include <iodef.h>
#include <starlet.h>
#include <descrip.h>

static void ooops(long int stat)
{ printf("status = %d\n", stat);
exit(0);
}

int main()
{ $DESCRIPTOR(ttdesc, "TT:");
char buf;
short int chan, iosb[4];
long int stat, tmo;
stat = sys$assign(&ttdesc, &chan, 0, 0, 0);
if(stat != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(stat);
tmo = 10;
printf("Press a key within %d seconds\n", tmo);
stat = sys$qiow(0, chan, IO$_READVBLK+IO$M_TIMED, iosb, 0, 0, &buf,
1, tmo, 0, 0, 0);
if(stat == SS$_NORMAL && iosb[0] == SS$_TIMEOUT)
{
printf("Arne you are too slow\n");
}
else
{
if(stat != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(stat);
if(iosb[0] != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(iosb[0]);
printf("You entered code: %d\n", buf);
}
stat = sys$dassgn(chan);
if(stat != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(stat);
return 0;
}

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

#include <ssdef.h>
#include <iodef.h>
#include <starlet.h>
#include <descrip.h>

static void ooops(long int stat)
{ printf("status = %d\n", stat);
exit(0);
}

static void done(short int chan)
{ sys$cancel(chan);
}

int main()
{ $DESCRIPTOR(ttdesc, "TT:");
char buf;
short int chan, iosb[4];
long int stat, tmo;
long long int tmo2;
stat = sys$assign(&ttdesc, &chan, 0, 0, 0);
if(stat != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(stat);
tmo = 10;
printf("Press a key within %d seconds\n", tmo);
tmo2 = -tmo * 10000000;
sys$setimr(0, &tmo2, done, chan, 0);
stat = sys$qiow(0, chan, IO$_READVBLK, iosb, 0, 0, &buf, 1, 0, 0,
0, 0);
if(stat == SS$_NORMAL && iosb[0] == SS$_ABORT)
{
printf("Arne you are too slow\n");
}
else
{
if(stat != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(stat);
if(iosb[0] != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(iosb[0]);
sys$cantim(&0, 0);
printf("You entered code: %d\n", buf);
}
stat = sys$dassgn(chan);
if(stat != SS$_NORMAL) ooops(stat);
return 0;
}