On DECUServe ("EISNER::") I've encountered a few peculiar
issues with Vim.

The Vim version in question is 7.1.236 (dated 12-MAY-2007,
as compiled on 24-JAN-2008 at 11:10:07 UTC? for OpenVMS
Alpha with Compaq C V6.5-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3) as
installed in "SYS$TOOLS:" and defined as "VI*M :==
$VIMRUNTIME:VIM.EXE" in the symbols table, to be exact.

The first issue is that once in a while there's a lengthy
delay during startup, taking up to a minute or so (in my
estimation), whereas other moments it starts up nearly
instantaneously, i.e. in less than a second.

I naturally tried some things, like deleting some user
files (such as ".viminfo") in my SYS$LOGIN: directory to
see if that would make any difference, but it seemed not.
For instance, at the moment Vim will startup and work
fine, but a day or two ago it was behaving in the way
as described above and I've experienced this behavior
before.
I also tried an older version of Vim (6.1), but it
seem to exhibit a similar issue. Other editors, such
as EVE, didn't seem to suffer
There's only so much I can do to diagnose the possible
problem as an unprivileged user. What could be the
cause of this, system resources, disk utilization,
etc.?

The second issue, arguably more grave, might be a
logical translation issue. For instance, when I edit a
file to a logical defined to a specific directory, e.g.
"folder$private:" (pointing to a directory like this:
"DISK_USER:[DECUSERVE_USER.MY_USERNAME.MY_DIRECTORY]"),
Vim will then only sometimes successfully read and/or
write and other times. I believe it usually goes wrong
when one's DEFAULT directory is set to such a location,
but I'm not completely sure.
Worrisome is that it can cause data corruption, turning
a file into a 'directory (per how Vim seems to reports
it).

Are these known issues and, if so, are there also
known workarounds?

Lastly, please try to stay on topic within this thread.
Thank you in advance.

- MG

> On DECUServe ("EISNER::") I've encountered a few peculiar
> issues with Vim.

I don't use EISNER, and I barely use Vim, so I know nothing, but...

> The Vim version in question is 7.1.236 [...]

Mine says:

VIM - Vi IMproved 7.4 (2013 Aug 10, compiled Oct 11 2017 22:35:59)

> [...] once in a while there's a lengthy delay during startup, [...]
> What could be the cause of this, system resources, disk utilization, etc.?

I'd say, yes. I've never noticed such behavior around here, but I
don't use it much.

> [...] but I'm not completely sure.

I'd expect it to be easier to trace a problem if the tracer knew how
to replicate it. In general, I'd expect the same command in the same
environment to work the same.

My changes/notes for Vim 7.4 can be found here:

http://antinode.info/ftp/vim/vim74/

> Lastly, please try to stay on topic [...]

Wrong forum. Too many social isolates with no one else to talk to
about anything.

On 2023-06-21 12:39:58 +0000, MG said:

> On DECUServe ("EISNER::") I've encountered a few peculiar
> issues with Vim.
>
> The Vim version in question is 7.1.236...

9.0.0 is the current stable version of vim: https://www.vim.org

For OpenVMS ports (and while the server is accessible), fetch 8.2.222
from http://polarhome.com/vim/

8.x fixed various issues I'd had with 7.x.

Test your vim issues and errors with 8.2.222 or 9.0.0, and then log
some bug reports.

PolarHome was shutting down many (most) of their activities, so I'm not
sure of the status of that server, and it may well be up or down...

"2022.01.03 polarhome R.I.P - this is the end of 22 years long
open-shell journey... with total of more than 200k users on 40+
servers. The main reason is the lack of interest - both from the
administrators and users' side as well. It costs a lot to run an
environment like this in maintaince hours, hardware and eletricity...
the demand and offer ratio does not justify the existence. The system
will be up from time to time to help open source development - but it
is closed to the public."

I'm not aware of a new residence for a port of vim to OpenVMS.

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

My apologies for my belated reply.

On 21-Jun-2023 17:06, Steven Schweda wrote:
> [...] I know nothing, but...

That's not the impression I get!

> I'd say, yes. I've never noticed such behavior around here, but I
> don't use it much.

I guess that would be one of the occasional disadvantages of using a
remote system.

> I'd expect it to be easier to trace a problem if the tracer knew how
> to replicate it. In general, I'd expect the same command in the same
> environment to work the same.

In my case it's really as simple as just starting the application at
a given moment, or that's the impression I got at least.

> My changes/notes for Vim 7.4 can be found here:
>
> http://antinode.info/ftp/vim/vim74/

Thank you, very much appreciated!

> Wrong forum. Too many social isolates with no one else to talk to
> about anything.

Could that be the reason?

- MG

On 21-Jun-2023 23:17, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> 9.0.0 is the current stable version of vim: https://www.vim.org

That's the version that I use under many other operating systems,
and there's luckily still a good amount of 'reverse compatibility'
with older versions like in the 7.4 version range.

> For OpenVMS ports (and while the server is accessible), fetch 8.2.222
> from http://polarhome.com/vim/
>
> 8.x fixed various issues I'd had with 7.x.
>
> Test your vim issues and errors with 8.2.222 or 9.0.0, and then log some
> bug reports.

Thank you! I didn't realize, or perhaps forgot, that Polarhome offered
a fairly modern ported version of Vim. I'll try it out as soon as
possible.

> PolarHome was shutting down many (most) of their activities, so I'm not
> sure of the status of that server, and it may well be up or down...
>
> "2022.01.03 polarhome R.I.P - this is the end of 22 years long
> open-shell journey... with total of more than 200k users on 40+ servers.
> The main reason is the lack of interest - both from the administrators
> and users' side as well. It costs a lot to run an environment like this
> in maintaince hours, hardware and eletricity... the demand and offer
> ratio does not justify the existence.  The system will be up from time
> to time to help open source development - but it is closed to the public."

I recall having read about that. I'm afraid that their registration
process and usage terms may have contributed to the overall inactivity
and "lack of interest", as stated. Although, that having been said, I
should remark that it's not unreasonable for them to have had some
checks and restrictions from their end, since these kinds of services
are sadly enough and, needless to say, susceptible to all kinds of
unwarranted use and outright abuse...

> I'm not aware of a new residence for a port of vim to OpenVMS.

I either way made sure to back up all the data from there, just in
case. Who knows what I might be able to offer in terms of this
effort.

Thank you once again for the help!

- MG

On 6/21/2023 8:39 AM, MG wrote:
> On DECUServe ("EISNER::") I've encountered a few peculiar
> issues with Vim.
>
>
> The first issue is that once in a while there's a lengthy
> delay during startup, taking up to a minute or so (in my
> estimation), whereas other moments it starts up nearly
> instantaneously, i.e. in less than a second.
>

I'm only really guessing but I have an idea about this one.
Could it have something to do with whether or not someone
else is using Vim and as a result the shared libraries I
assume it uses are already loaded?

I am pretty sure I used to have an account on EISNER but I
expect by now it has long since been purged due to lack of
use.

bill

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 7:00:52 PM UTC-4, bill wrote:
> I am pretty sure I used to have an account on EISNER but I
> expect by now it has long since been purged due to lack of
> use.

Unless things have changed greatly, inactive accounts just get
DISUSER'd and if you go through the signup procedure with the
same DECUS membership number you originally used, your
account will be reactivated with all of your files and notebook
intact.

On 6/23/2023 10:24 PM, terry-...@glaver.org wrote:
> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 7:00:52 PM UTC-4, bill wrote:
>> I am pretty sure I used to have an account on EISNER but I
>> expect by now it has long since been purged due to lack of
>> use.
>
> Unless things have changed greatly, inactive accounts just get
> DISUSER'd and if you go through the signup procedure with the
> same DECUS membership number you originally used, your
> account will be reactivated with all of your files and notebook
> intact.

Maybe I should try it. I have my DECUS membership card somewhere on
my desk. :-)

bill

On 6/24/2023 9:10 AM, bill wrote:
> On 6/23/2023 10:24 PM, terry-...@glaver.org wrote:
>> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 7:00:52 PM UTC-4, bill wrote:
>>> I am pretty sure I used to have an account on EISNER but I
>>> expect by now it has long since been purged due to lack of
>>> use.
>>
>> Unless things have changed greatly, inactive accounts just get
>> DISUSER'd and if you go through the signup procedure with the
>> same DECUS membership number you originally used, your
>> account will be reactivated with all of your files and notebook
>> intact.
>
> Maybe I should try it.  I have my DECUS membership card somewhere on
> my desk.  :-)

Why does "somewhere on my desk" give me associations to
storage capacity = size surface x distance between surface
and ceiling?

:-) :-) :-)

Arne

On 6/24/2023 10:30 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 6/24/2023 9:10 AM, bill wrote:
>> On 6/23/2023 10:24 PM, terry-...@glaver.org wrote:
>>> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 7:00:52 PM UTC-4, bill wrote:
>>>> I am pretty sure I used to have an account on EISNER but I
>>>> expect by now it has long since been purged due to lack of
>>>> use.
>>>
>>> Unless things have changed greatly, inactive accounts just get
>>> DISUSER'd and if you go through the signup procedure with the
>>> same DECUS membership number you originally used, your
>>> account will be reactivated with all of your files and notebook
>>> intact.
>>
>> Maybe I should try it.  I have my DECUS membership card somewhere on
>> my desk.  :-)
>
> Why does "somewhere on my desk" give me associations to
> storage capacity = size surface x distance between surface
> and ceiling?
>
> :-) :-) :-)
>

A neat desk is the sign of a disturbed mind.

bill

> Why does "somewhere on my desk" give me associations to
> storage capacity = size surface x distance between surface
> and ceiling?

Don't knock it. It's science: the archaeological filing system
innately provides data like event dating and context. :)

De

On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:17:38 PM UTC-4, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> On 2023-06-21 12:39:58 +0000, MG said:
>
> > On DECUServe ("EISNER::") I've encountered a few peculiar
> > issues with Vim.
> >
> > The Vim version in question is 7.1.236...
>
> 9.0.0 is the current stable version of vim: https://www.vim.org
>
> For OpenVMS ports (and while the server is accessible), fetch 8.2.222
> from http://polarhome.com/vim/
>
> 8.x fixed various issues I'd had with 7.x.
>
> Test your vim issues and errors with 8.2.222 or 9.0.0, and then log
> some bug reports.
>
> PolarHome was shutting down many (most) of their activities, so I'm not
> sure of the status of that server, and it may well be up or down...
>
> "2022.01.03 polarhome R.I.P - this is the end of 22 years long
> open-shell journey... with total of more than 200k users on 40+
> servers. The main reason is the lack of interest - both from the
> administrators and users' side as well. It costs a lot to run an
> environment like this in maintaince hours, hardware and eletricity...
> the demand and offer ratio does not justify the existence. The system
> will be up from time to time to help open source development - but it
> is closed to the public."
>
> I'm not aware of a new residence for a port of vim to OpenVMS.
>
>
> --
> Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

re: polarhome

Years ago I patched their version of VIM for VMS so that it would play nicely with OpenVMS (up until then, monitoring an idle VIM session would produce non-idle results). Anyway, back then I didn't know who was maintaining the official code so I sent my fix back to the team at polarhome.com who were serving it up for a time. I now wonder if my fix ever got my back into the official source code.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net
http://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

On 6/24/2023 9:10 AM, bill wrote:

> Maybe I should try it.  I have my DECUS membership card somewhere on
> my desk.  :-)
If it doesn't work, let me know.

Or sign up for another account.

--

--- Rob

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 5:29:56 AM UTC-4, Neil Rieck wrote:
> [...snip...]

At my work place almost everyone knows how to use "vim" so providing it for our OpenVMS systems was faster than expecting them to learn "edt" or "eve"..

With https://polarhome.com now being defunct, I just reposted two of their "vim" files here:

https://neilrieck.net/misc/zip/openvms/

They are all for vim-8.0.69 and I have included my patched version of "os_vms.c" so it will play nice with Itanium.
(limited instructions in the associated text file; this will only be useful if you have access to a "C" compiler.)

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net
http://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-4, Neil Rieck wrote:

Alert: https://polarhome.com was back online today (I was checking everyday) so was able to download 15 files related to vim-8.2 for VMS and OpenVMS.

I will upload them to a safe area at my site tomorrow (Saturday) but interested parties would be wise to download them ASAP.
(statistics informs that I am in the final decade of my life)

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net
http://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

I grabbed all the available VIM-for-VMS files from polarhome then posted them here: https://neilrieck.net/misc/zip/openvms/polarhome/

BTW, these are all VIM-8.2.222

Zoltan Arpadffy (Stockholm, Sweden) put a lot of work into these so you might want to download the whole lot to your site if you value them as much as I do.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net
http://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

On 2023-07-07, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@bell.net> wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 3:59:38?PM UTC-4, Neil Rieck wrote:
>
> Alert: https://polarhome.com was back online today (I was checking everyday) so was able to download 15 files related to vim-8.2 for VMS and OpenVMS.
>
> I will upload them to a safe area at my site tomorrow (Saturday) but interested parties would be wise to download them ASAP.
> (statistics informs that I am in the final decade of my life)
>

You are only as old as you feel... :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.