I don't see an answer at VSI online on initial review; thought I'd ask here before going to support because, why not.

Does VSI VMS on Integrity (V8.4-2L2 U1) offer a means to install a new current license key if it is booted with an expired key? Or do we need to do DVD boot standalone and use that to update the license on the drive before it will boot at all? Got an RX2800 system that was parked on a shelf until 7 months after its license expired and we just finally got new paks for it. I just want to be ready to deal with the issue (first expiring base VMS license issue ever, thanks tons, VSI)...

On 7/20/2023 1:58 PM, CCS Technology wrote:
> I don't see an answer at VSI online on initial review; thought I'd
> ask here before going to support because, why not.
>
> Does VSI VMS on Integrity (V8.4-2L2 U1) offer a means to install a
> new current license key if it is booted with an expired key? Or do
> we need to do DVD boot standalone and use that to update the license
> on the drive before it will boot at all? Got an RX2800 system that
> was parked on a shelf until 7 months after its license expired and
> we just finally got new paks for it. I just want to be ready to
> deal with the issue (first expiring base VMS license issue ever,
> thanks tons, VSI)...

You should be able to:
- boot normally
- login via console (not via network - only via console)
- enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)
- reboot

Arne

On 7/20/2023 2:54 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 7/20/2023 1:58 PM, CCS Technology wrote:
>> I don't see an answer at VSI online on initial review; thought I'd
>> ask here before going to support because, why not.
>>
>> Does VSI VMS on Integrity (V8.4-2L2 U1) offer a means to install a
>> new current license key if it is booted with an expired key? Or do
>> we need to do DVD boot standalone and use that to update the license
>> on the drive before it will boot at all? Got an RX2800 system that
>> was parked on a shelf until 7 months after its license expired and
>> we just finally got new paks for it. I just want to be ready to
>> deal with the issue (first expiring base VMS license issue ever,
>> thanks tons, VSI)...
>
> You should be able to:
> - boot normally
> - login via console (not via network - only via console)
> - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)
> - reboot
>
> Arne

To expand that a bit, running VMS from the console does not require any
licenses. However, none of the layered products, including networking, I think,
will load and run. But once on the console, one should be able to load enough
licenses to then get the layered products working.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

> - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)

For less unpleasant typing, and more chances to recover:

@ sys$update:VMSLICENSE.COM

In my neighborhood, in the days when PAKs came on paper, using
VMSLICENSE.COM was standard procedure.

But yes, from the console, you don't need an active VMS license to do
(local) work, including PAK registration.

> - login via console (not via network - only via console)
> - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)

If you have the PAKs in the form of LICENSE REGISTER commands:

FSVO using a PC of some sort as the console terminal, you should be able
to copypasta the commands into the terminal session. You may have to do
them a line-or-few at a timeto prevent overflowing a buffer, but it's
still better than typing the whole thing in.

De

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:37:03 PM UTC-5, Dennis Boone wrote:
> > - login via console (not via network - only via console)
> > - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)
> If you have the PAKs in the form of LICENSE REGISTER commands:
>
> FSVO using a PC of some sort as the console terminal, you should be able
> to copypasta the commands into the terminal session. You may have to do
> them a line-or-few at a timeto prevent overflowing a buffer, but it's
> still better than typing the whole thing in.
>
> De

Thanks all for responding. I was hoping bare console access was still available as with previous versions and licenses, but didn't see that confirmed in my earlier perusal. As long as we can enter the paks, manually or otherwise, it won't be a problem. We have iLO access for the console.

On 2023-07-20 17:58:15 +0000, CCS Technology said:

> I don't see an answer at VSI online on initial review; thought I'd ask
> here before going to support because, why not.
>
> Does VSI VMS on Integrity (V8.4-2L2 U1) offer a means to install a new
> current license key if it is booted with an expired key? Or do we need
> to do DVD boot standalone and use that to update the license on the
> drive before it will boot at all? Got an RX2800 system that was
> parked on a shelf until 7 months after its license expired and we just
> finally got new paks for it. I just want to be ready to deal with the
> issue (first expiring base VMS license issue ever, thanks tons, VSI)...

OpenVMS license re-registration for expired licenses has been a
shitshow since it was implemented.

If you have the iLO configured or can configure it, or have or can
connect to the serial console DB9, then you have console access to load
the license.

How depends on the particular OpenVMS server. The iLO isn't too bad to
set up, and having that configured can also solve various other
management issues.

Using the console probably the easiest approach.

Booting from DVD will work fine and is probably the expedient, if
you're unfamiliar with OpenVMS and Integrity server hardware.

Whichever way you get the licenses re-loaded, you'll want to reboot to
return the system to normal operations.

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

On Thu, 2023-07-20 at 12:44 -0700, CCS Technology wrote:
> Thanks all for responding.  I was hoping bare console access was
> still available as with previous versions and licenses, but didn't
> see that confirmed in my earlier perusal.   As long as we can enter
> the paks, manually or otherwise, it won't be a problem.  We have iLO
> access for the console.

You could consider replacing these machines with a x86_64 VM if you
can.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

> [...] it's still better than typing the whole thing in.

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Doctor: Don't do that.

As suggested above:

> [...] one should be able to load enough
> licenses to then get the layered products working.

That is, manually load the PAKs for the OS and some kind of
networking, then copy over the too-large-to-type PAK registration
script, and then run that.

As I recall, the terminology used in LICE REGI commands differs a
little from that used by VMSLICENSE.COM, but not enough to cause
excessive confusion.

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:23:56 PM UTC-5, Steven Schweda wrote:
> > [...] it's still better than typing the whole thing in.
>
> Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
>
> Doctor: Don't do that.
>
> As suggested above:
>
> > [...] one should be able to load enough
> > licenses to then get the layered products working.
> That is, manually load the PAKs for the OS and some kind of
> networking, then copy over the too-large-to-type PAK registration
> script, and then run that.
>
> As I recall, the terminology used in LICE REGI commands differs a
> little from that used by VMSLICENSE.COM, but not enough to cause
> excessive confusion.

and the VSI paks actually include the license register commands needed.

> [...] the VSI paks actually include the license register commands
> needed.

Yes. And if they can be used in that form, then I'd do it. But if I
had to type in anything manually, I'd use VMSLICENSE.COM.

Earlier today, I used one of those PAK scripts as a virtual optical
disc, used MOUNT /FOREIGN and COPY to extract the data to a normal
(virtual) disk file, and used SET FILE /ATTR = RFM: STMLF to convince
DCL that it was readable. I like a PAK script if I can use it as a
script. Less if I need to read it myself.

On 7/20/2023 6:27 PM, Steven Schweda wrote:
>> [...] the VSI paks actually include the license register commands
>> needed.
>
> Yes. And if they can be used in that form, then I'd do it. But if I
> had to type in anything manually, I'd use VMSLICENSE.COM.

Yeah, my preference also.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 2023-07-20, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 7/20/2023 1:58 PM, CCS Technology wrote:
>> I don't see an answer at VSI online on initial review; thought I'd
>> ask here before going to support because, why not.
>>
>> Does VSI VMS on Integrity (V8.4-2L2 U1) offer a means to install a
>> new current license key if it is booted with an expired key? Or do
>> we need to do DVD boot standalone and use that to update the license
>> on the drive before it will boot at all? Got an RX2800 system that
>> was parked on a shelf until 7 months after its license expired and
>> we just finally got new paks for it. I just want to be ready to
>> deal with the issue (first expiring base VMS license issue ever,
>> thanks tons, VSI)...
>
> You should be able to:
> - boot normally
> - login via console (not via network - only via console)
> - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)
> - reboot

On a related note, assuming the licences don't expire first, can you,
during normal system operations, replace a licence that is _about_ to
expire and then have everything carry on without a problem ?

IOW, does the always-running networking/VMS code read the licence expiry
date during system startup and only check at that point (so that you
can continue running on expired licences until a reboot) or is there
anything that would force you to do a reboot or subsystem restart after
new licences have been loaded ?

I think it's the former, but I can't be sure.

That obviously doesn't apply to things like compilers which check
everytime you run one of the compilers.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2023-07-20, Dennis Boone <drb@ihatespam.msu.edu> wrote:
> > - login via console (not via network - only via console)
> > - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)
>
> If you have the PAKs in the form of LICENSE REGISTER commands:
>
> FSVO using a PC of some sort as the console terminal, you should be able
> to copypasta the commands into the terminal session. You may have to do
> them a line-or-few at a timeto prevent overflowing a buffer, but it's
> still better than typing the whole thing in.
>

C-Kermit's TRANSMIT command, with the various delays you can
insert, can be very useful here. It's how I have traditionally
transferred new hobbyist licences from Linux if the old hobbyist
licence had already expired.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Den 2023-07-21 kl. 14:35, skrev Simon Clubley:
> On 2023-07-20, Dennis Boone <drb@ihatespam.msu.edu> wrote:
>>> - login via console (not via network - only via console)
>>> - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)
>>
>> If you have the PAKs in the form of LICENSE REGISTER commands:
>>
>> FSVO using a PC of some sort as the console terminal, you should be able
>> to copypasta the commands into the terminal session. You may have to do
>> them a line-or-few at a timeto prevent overflowing a buffer, but it's
>> still better than typing the whole thing in.
>>
>
> C-Kermit's TRANSMIT command, with the various delays you can
> insert, can be very useful here. It's how I have traditionally
> transferred new hobbyist licences from Linux if the old hobbyist
> licence had already expired.
>
> Simon.
>

Many (most?) traditional terminal emulators also have a delay setting,
some only between lines and some also beetwen characters, when pasting
text data into the emulator window.

Den 2023-07-21 kl. 14:31, skrev Simon Clubley:
> On 2023-07-20, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 7/20/2023 1:58 PM, CCS Technology wrote:
>>> I don't see an answer at VSI online on initial review; thought I'd
>>> ask here before going to support because, why not.
>>>
>>> Does VSI VMS on Integrity (V8.4-2L2 U1) offer a means to install a
>>> new current license key if it is booted with an expired key? Or do
>>> we need to do DVD boot standalone and use that to update the license
>>> on the drive before it will boot at all? Got an RX2800 system that
>>> was parked on a shelf until 7 months after its license expired and
>>> we just finally got new paks for it. I just want to be ready to
>>> deal with the issue (first expiring base VMS license issue ever,
>>> thanks tons, VSI)...
>>
>> You should be able to:
>> - boot normally
>> - login via console (not via network - only via console)
>> - enter the new license manually (unpleasant typing but possible)
>> - reboot
>
> On a related note, assuming the licences don't expire first, can you,
> during normal system operations, replace a licence that is _about_ to
> expire and then have everything carry on without a problem ?

It would surprise me a lot if a reboot would be required just for a
license update/renewal.

I think you just "load" the new license besides the old one and make
it active, then deactivate and remove the old one.
That is done on-line, as far as I remember...

>
> IOW, does the always-running networking/VMS code read the licence expiry
> date during system startup and only check at that point (so that you
> can continue running on expired licences until a reboot) or is there
> anything that would force you to do a reboot or subsystem restart after
> new licences have been loaded ?
>
> I think it's the former, but I can't be sure.
>
> That obviously doesn't apply to things like compilers which check
> everytime you run one of the compilers.
>
> Simon.
>

> I think you just "load" the new license besides the old one [...]

LICENSE REGISTER ?

> [...] and make it active, [...]

LICENSE LOAD ?

> [...] then deactivate [...]

LICENSE UNLOAD ?

> [...] and remove the old one.

LICENSE DELETE ?

> That is done on-line, as far as I remember...

As I understand it, commands like REGISTER or DELETE deal with the
database, and have no immediate effect on the system. Unlike, say, LOAD
or UNLOAD. The fact that some of this stuff is done automatically at
system start does not mean that that's the only time when it can be
done.

HELP LICE

On 7/21/2023 12:14 PM, Steven Schweda wrote:
>> I think you just "load" the new license besides the old one [...]
>
> LICENSE REGISTER ?
>
>> [...] and make it active, [...]
>
> LICENSE LOAD ?
>
>> [...] then deactivate [...]
>
> LICENSE UNLOAD ?
>
>> [...] and remove the old one.
>
> LICENSE DELETE ?
>
>> That is done on-line, as far as I remember...
>
> As I understand it, commands like REGISTER or DELETE deal with the
> database, and have no immediate effect on the system. Unlike, say, LOAD
> or UNLOAD. The fact that some of this stuff is done automatically at
> system start does not mean that that's the only time when it can be
> done.

Everythng that Steven says is correct.

Not surprisingly, the online help for the LICENSE verb is helpful.

--
-- Rob

> Everythng that Steven says is correct.

In this case, perhaps. Not in general.

> Not surprisingly, the online help for the LICENSE verb is helpful.

It even mentions SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE.COM.

Den 2023-07-21 kl. 18:58, skrev Steven Schweda:
>> Everythng that Steven says is correct.
>
> In this case, perhaps. Not in general.
>
>> Not surprisingly, the online help for the LICENSE verb is helpful.
>
> It even mentions SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE.COM.

The question was specifically if you can "renew" the base OS license
on-line without a reboot.

My view was that "yes, you can", as a reply to someone else that thought
that a reboot might be needed.

The specific commands are not relevent and can be looked up, of course...