On 2023-07-18, bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/18/2023 8:39 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-07-16, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/16/2023 10:27 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thinking about it some more, isn't all security obscurity?
>>>>
>>>> No. Take physical security for instance. Everybody knows where the computer
>>>> center is. They just don't want to deal with the armed guards at the entrance.
>>>
>>> Well, one could hide the computers ...
>>>
>>
>> The heavily guarded computer centre is just for show.
>>
>> The real control system is a laptop behind a door accessible through an
>> unlocked janitor's closet. :-)
>>
>> Simon.
>>
>> PS: Let's see if anyone gets the reference...
>>
>
> Is it anywhere near Kansas?
>

It's an Evil Empress reference:

https://nift.firedrake.org/EEmpress.htm

The much more well-known Evil Overlord list is here:

http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in
news:u8h6qk$2ib7e$1@dont-email.me:

> On 7/10/2023 9:04 AM, abrsvc wrote:
>>
>>>>> Then you have exploits that hit VMWare
>>> The same problem exists for Alpha emulators, even though it's an
>>> emulator and not virtualisation software. Also not probed anywhere
>>> near as much as the mainstream products.
>>
>> I can agree with Simon for a change... :)
>>
>> Most of the problems I have seen in terms of "break-ins" have been at
>> the host OS level and not problems with the emulators. I know of one
>> client that has had multiple intrusions with NO impact on the OpenVMS
>> system itself other than being inaccessible because of the network.
>> OpenVMS itself was not affected at all. I see the same issue with
>> the VMs. OpenVMS is not the problem here, only the underlying host.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
> One of our customers got hit with a ransomware attack. Their WEENDOZE
> systems were toasted. Their VMS system was not touched.
>
> Now, yeah, lots of business now depends upon WEENDOZE systems. But,
> VMS ran their core business, and while annoyed by the loss on the
> WEENDOZE systems, the company was able to continue to receive orders
> and ship product.
>
> Maybe some may see things differently, but, to me, there is a vast
> difference between being annoyed, and losing the capability to
> continue to run the business. Consider the ramifications of losing
> all Accounts Receivable data. Cant collect money is a major hurt.
>
> Not saying VMS cannot be hacked, but, the reality is, they usually are
> not hacked.

When customers outsource their Windows admin responsibilities to India,
Brazil, or the Philippines, they should expect that sort of thing.

Windows isn't all that bad. If you perform due diligence and hardening
as you're supposed to, it's pretty solid, resistant even. Ransomware
exploits succeed because somebody screwed up, gave in to an internal
customer, and didn't do it.

The other major vulnerability is the design of the management network
that permits these remote admins into the environments where they
perform their tasks. Some of them are absolutely horrendous and provide
complete direct access from an offshore location. That should never
ever be permitted.

On 7/22/2023 3:58 AM, Tholen wrote:
> When customers outsource their Windows admin responsibilities to India,
> Brazil, or the Philippines, they should expect that sort of thing.
>
> Windows isn't all that bad. If you perform due diligence and hardening
> as you're supposed to, it's pretty solid, resistant even. Ransomware
> exploits succeed because somebody screwed up, gave in to an internal
> customer, and didn't do it.
>
> The other major vulnerability is the design of the management network
> that permits these remote admins into the environments where they
> perform their tasks. Some of them are absolutely horrendous and provide
> complete direct access from an offshore location. That should never
> ever be permitted.

Remote system administration (system management in traditional VMS
terminology) is a requirement today.

Servers are in cloud facilities, colocation data centers,
centralized data centers etc..

It is not possible to have people in the computer room.

And remote access is remote access - there is no difference
between 10 miles and 10000 miles.

Arne