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computers / comp.mobile.ipad / Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waybadgolferman
|+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
||+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waybadgolferman
|||+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
||||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
|||| `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
|||`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
||  +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
||  |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
||  | `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
||  |  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
||  |   +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayDorper
||  |   |+- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
||  |   |+- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
||  |   |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
||  |   | +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
||  |   | |`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
||  |   | +- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
||  |   | `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
||  |   `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
||  |    `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
||  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
||   +- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
||   `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
||    +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
||    |`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
||    `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayDorper
|+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
||+- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayYour Name
|| +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waybadgolferman
|| |+- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
|| |+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waysms
|| ||+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
|| |||`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayPatrick
|| || `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waysms
|| ||  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||   +- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||   `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    |+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    ||+- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    ||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    || +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    || |+- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    || |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    || | +- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    || | `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    || |  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    || |   `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    || `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    ||  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    ||   `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    | `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    |  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    |   `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waysms
|| | `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| |  +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| |  |`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way -modWally J
|| |  `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
|| |+- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
|| |+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayYour Name
|| ||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayPatrick
|| || `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waysms
|| ||  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||   `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
|| ||    +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
|| ||    | +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayYour Name
|| ||    | |+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
|| ||    | ||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWolf Greenblatt
|| ||    | || `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    | |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayPatrick
|| ||    | | `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayOscar Mayer
|| ||    | |  +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayYour Name
|| ||    | |  |`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
|| ||    | |  `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
|| ||    | `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    |  `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    |   `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    |    `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| ||    |     +- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||    |     `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayJolly Roger
|| ||    `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waysms
|| ||     +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
|| ||     |+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waysms
|| ||     ||`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07
|| ||     |`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||     +* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayMickey D
|| ||     |+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
|| ||     ||`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayDorper
|| ||     || `- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan
|| ||     |`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayAlan Browne
|| ||     `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayFrankie
|| |`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayPatrick
|| `* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
|+* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waysms
|`- Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the wayWally J
`* Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the waycandycanearter07

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Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

<ufdej1$2f2c$1@news.samoylyk.net>

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From: wol...@greenblatt.net (Wolf Greenblatt)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 23:48:50 -0400
Organization: Private News Server
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 by: Wolf Greenblatt - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 03:48 UTC

On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 19:09:20 -0500, candycanearter07 wrote:

>> At the very least the user should have enough brains not to use utter
>> crap "Social Media" apps like Instagram.  :-p
>>
>
> While I don't disagree, they should still have some safeguards against
> rouge apps.

Apple marketing has started the new campaign to solve the problem the way
they always have solved any bad press in the news about Apple's product.

First Apple will only admit to "slight warming" of the iPhone 15 series.
Then Apple will "assure the safety" of the new iPhones so rest at ease.

Apple will issue new guidelines explaining not only how to hold it,
but also the types of Apple-approved fire-safe asbestos-free gloves to use.

These new fire-safe iPhone gloves will be called the iGlove, and will
retail for $79.99 USD if you wait outside in line at the Apple Store.

In addition, users will have the opportunity to beta test the new ten-foot
iPole that Apple is selling in various new bold colors like red & yellow.

The new iPoles will be sold for only $39.99 USD so get them now before the
bold color of your choice sells out (Sorry. Not available in plain white.)

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

<ufdenu$5ti$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

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From: mickeyda...@ptd.net (Mickey D)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 23:51:27 -0400
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 by: Mickey D - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 03:51 UTC

On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 17:22:58 -0700, sms wrote:

>> The operating system controls thread scheduling and memory. They can
>> just lower the apps priority if its past a certain usage percentage, or
>> outright kill it.
>
> Actually the OS _can_ stop the app from consuming excessive resources by
> shutting it down. There have been complaints by developers of this
> happening when the app has a legitimate need for those resources.

The only way Apple can stop this problem in software is to cut performance.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
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 by: Alan - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 05:39 UTC

On 2023-10-01 20:51, Mickey D wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 17:22:58 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>>> The operating system controls thread scheduling and memory. They can
>>> just lower the apps priority if its past a certain usage percentage, or
>>> outright kill it.
>>
>> Actually the OS _can_ stop the app from consuming excessive resources by
>> shutting it down. There have been complaints by developers of this
>> happening when the app has a legitimate need for those resources.
>
> The only way Apple can stop this problem in software is to cut performance.

Clown... ...stick to one nym.

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From: YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2023 18:43:19 +1300
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 by: Your Name - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 05:43 UTC

> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:33:26 +0800, Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> At the very least the user should have enough brains not to use utter
>>> crap "Social Media" apps like Instagram. :-p
>>
>> This idea from Your Name is great as it will instantly solve all of
>> Apple's overheating iPhone 15 problems while still allowing sales to
>> proceed.

People not using crappy "Social Media" would solve lots of the world's
problems in one go!

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From: confu...@nospam.net (Peter)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
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 by: Peter - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 06:06 UTC

candycanearter07 wrote on 02.10.2023 00:04
>> There is a difference between not finding a particular issue in
>> particular circumstances and "forget[ting]" to test.
>>
>> Agreed?
>
> If so many people have this issue then it would've come up in testing.

I don't think Alan is correct that Apple "forgot" to test.
Apple consciously decided not to bother wasting the money to test it.

That's different.
It was a conscious decision not to test these iPhones for overheating.

It's clear there was no testing for this widespread overheating problem.
Otherwise it wouldn't be so many situations & so many of them being common.

Anyone saying it was tested has to first read that Apple said almost
everything is causing this overheating - which means they didn't test it.

None of this would have been allowed through had there been any testing.
But there wasn't any testing. That much is clear to everyone. Even Apple.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
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 by: Alan - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 06:11 UTC

On 2023-10-01 23:06, Peter wrote:
> candycanearter07 wrote on 02.10.2023 00:04
>>> There is a difference between not finding a particular issue in
>>> particular circumstances and "forget[ting]" to test.
>>>
>>> Agreed?
>>
>> If so many people have this issue then it would've come up in testing.
>
> I don't think Alan is correct that Apple "forgot" to test.
> Apple consciously decided not to bother wasting the money to test it.
>
> That's different.
> It was a conscious decision not to test these iPhones for overheating.
>
> It's clear there was no testing for this widespread overheating problem.
> Otherwise it wouldn't be so many situations & so many of them being common.
>
> Anyone saying it was tested has to first read that Apple said almost
> everything is causing this overheating - which means they didn't test it.
>
> None of this would have been allowed through had there been any testing.
> But there wasn't any testing. That much is clear to everyone. Even Apple.

Clown:

Stick...

....to...

....one...

....nym.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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From: use...@dorper.me (Dorper)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad, comp.sys.mac.advocacy, misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
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 by: Dorper - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 06:36 UTC

On Oct 1, 2023, Alan wrote
(in article <ufdl24$2q1ir$1@dont-email.me>):
> Clown... ...stick to one nym.

On Oct 1, 2023, Alan wrote
(in article <ufdmu0$2qbmc$1@dont-email.me>):
>
> Clown:
>
> Stick...
>
> ...to...
>
> ...one...
>
> ...nym.

These aren't the same person

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
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 by: Alan - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 07:17 UTC

On 2023-10-01 23:36, Dorper wrote:
> On Oct 1, 2023, Alan wrote
> (in article <ufdl24$2q1ir$1@dont-email.me>):
>> Clown... ...stick to one nym.
>
> On Oct 1, 2023, Alan wrote
> (in article <ufdmu0$2qbmc$1@dont-email.me>):
>>
>> Clown:
>>
>> Stick...
>>
>> ...to...
>>
>> ...one...
>>
>> ...nym.
>
> These aren't the same person
>

I'll make my own judgment of that, thanks.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: sms - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:25 UTC

On 10/1/2023 5:41 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 10/1/23 19:22, sms wrote:
>> On 10/1/2023 2:43 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> The operating system controls thread scheduling and memory. They can
>>> just lower the apps priority if its past a certain usage percentage,
>>> or outright kill it.
>>
>> Actually the OS _can_ stop the app from consuming excessive resources
>> by shutting it down. There have been complaints by developers of this
>> happening when the app has a legitimate need for those resources.
>>
>
> That's what I said?

Sorry, I was correcting one of our favorite trolls.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:46 UTC

On 2023-10-01 18:05, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 10/1/23 16:59, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-10-01 17:43, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> On 10/1/23 16:36, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-10-01 16:38, sms wrote:
>>>>> On 10/1/2023 12:20 PM, Patrick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Damn Instagram.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is it always the app that nobody uses that makes the iPhone
>>>>>> overheat.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, here are the iOS apps that are downloaded the most:
>>>>> 1. TikTok
>>>>> 2. Instagram
>>>>> 3. Facebook
>>>>> 4. WhatsApp
>>>>> 5. Telegram
>>>>>
>>>>> I did see a complaint that Instagram causes Android phones to heat
>>>>> up as well. It seems like Instagram will just use as much CPU power
>>>>> as it can get. This is not really a bug in Instagram, the operating
>>>>> system should be limiting the amount of resources that an app can
>>>>> consume.
>>>>
>>>> Not at all.  The OS cannot tell if badly written software is doing
>>>> something useless driving up power consumption.
>>>
>>> The operating system controls thread scheduling and memory. They can
>>> just lower the apps priority if its past a certain usage percentage,
>>> or outright kill it.
>>
>> Some apps justifiably need a lot of CPU so the OS cannot do more that
>> allow the app / thread to run its time slice until the slice is over
>> or pre-empted by something with higher priority for which no other
>> core is available.
>>
>> Could one design an OS that applies the rule as you say?  Sure.  But
>> that is not the case in general purpose OS'.
>>
>> Could the OS detect race conditions and kill a thread (or several)?
>> Probably.  My example has no such possible state.
>>
>> And while my example might be trivial, there are cases where
>> converging on a solution with many variables can take a hell of a lot
>> of CPU and time.  And it's a very valid thing for a program to do.
>>
>> The main point is that OS' don't arbitrarily kill processes (or
>> throttle them) just because a given process is using a lot of CPU.
>>
>
> At the very least, it should warn the user if a program is using a lot.

That would be an annoyance.

OTOH, iOS does provide an app power use graph in the battery section
that would help one isolate greedy apps.

There are user settings in Unix to lower the priority of a program, but
it will still get all the CPU it can that is available. Not sure if
there are internal calls in iOS so an app can have its priority lowered.
In stuff I do (barebones / no OS), I can have the scheduler assign
various priorities to threads - but even the lowest will get all it
wants if no other thread needs CPU.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:51 UTC

On 2023-10-01 19:04, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 10/1/23 17:25, Alan wrote:
>> There is a difference between not finding a particular issue in
>> particular circumstances and "forget[ting]" to test.
>>
>> Agreed?
>
> If so many people have this issue then it would've come up in testing.

Depends on what testing is done and how the tests were designed.

If tests look for "did task BB002 complete w/o errors?" and it's
affirmative then it passes.

If tests look for "did task BB002 complete w/o errors and use little
CPU, time or result in the temperature not going up" and it's
affirmative then it passes.

Then, did the above while each of 100's of popular 3rd party apps was
also running?

This sort of thing shoots off to infinite tests pretty quickly...

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: sms - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:55 UTC

On 10/1/2023 11:06 PM, Peter wrote:

<snip>

> It was a conscious decision not to test these iPhones for overheating.

It was likely the belief that since the apps all ran fine on iOS 17 on
the iPhone 14 Pro/Pro Max that there was no operating system issue with
those apps. They didn't take into account the higher power consumption
and higher thermals of the A17 Bionic or the change from a metal with a
higher thermal conductivity to one with a lower thermal conductivity.

Remember the iPhone 4 antenna issue? The belief there was that the
phones that were being tested had cases on them, to hide what they were,
so no one was touching the frame in the wrong place.

Remember the iPhone 6/6s/7 throttling issue? It actually wasn't a
problem with the battery it was that the PMIC was unable to deliver
sufficient power to the Bionic chip when the battery had slightly aged.
In the iPhone 8 they added another PMIC to address the issue and there
have been no reports of the iPhone 8 or newer throttling even though the
throttling code is still there. A replacement battery was a workaround
to the problem on the 6/6s/7 but it didn't address the root cause.

For the overheating, they can throttle the CPU under certain conditions
but it doesn't address the root cause of the need for a better thermal
solution (vapor chamber).

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:07 UTC

On 2023-10-01 19:36, Dorper wrote:
> On Oct 1, 2023, Alan Browne wrote
> (in article <xQlSM.36250$%_f1.3838@fx06.iad>):
>
>> On 2023-10-01 17:38, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-10-01 14:13, Wally J wrote:
>>>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> No, you very clearly haven't.
>>>>
>>>> Well, both badgolferman and I have said we've worked on military grade
>>>> software for decades but you can choose to disbelieve what we say.
>>>
>>> That's convenient, Clown...
>>>
>>> ...because we do so choose.
>>
>> Using terms like "military grade software" is a red flag.
>>
>> There is a way to say what he desperately wants to convey but since he
>> said it the way he said it we know it is poppycock (at best).
>
> Military Grade software does exist. VHDL (MIL-STD-454N) and Ada
> (MIL-STD-1815) are examples. But just because something is military grade
> doesn't mean it is good. Military grade means it is the cheapest made while
> still meeting minimum contract specifications.

Yet, nobody in the industry uses jargon such as "military grade". That
is the point. Somebody using that jargon is someone who is a pretender.

Ada is not "Military Grade" - it is a standard language (as in a
reference) that can be a requirement (usually contractual) in some, but
not all military (and commercial aviation) programs. For example, the
F-22 had a contractual requirement that everything newly developed had
to be written in Ada. (Existing avionics that needed no changes or minor
changes were exempt). Likewise Boeing stipulated Ada for all new
avionics for the B-777 program which is obviously not a military program.

US (and other country) military software requirements in the 80's and
90's tended to be to MIL-STD-2167A, but some military avionics contracts
stipulate DO-178c as the standard (at appropriate criticality level) -
and the latter is a commercial aviation standard.

2167 has in the meantime been superseded by other standards.

As I recall testing to 2167, it was something of a nightmare - not that
DO-178 at sufficiently high levels (B and A) is easy.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:10 UTC

On 2023-10-01 20:41, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 10/1/23 19:22, sms wrote:
>> On 10/1/2023 2:43 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> The operating system controls thread scheduling and memory. They can
>>> just lower the apps priority if its past a certain usage percentage,
>>> or outright kill it.
>>
>> Actually the OS _can_ stop the app from consuming excessive resources
>> by shutting it down. There have been complaints by developers of this
>> happening when the app has a legitimate need for those resources.
>>
>
> That's what I said?

Excessive CPU use not being one of them, or at least not as a general case.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:14 UTC

On 2023-10-01 23:15, Frankie wrote:
> On 1/10/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> The only way Apple can lower the heat output is to lower performance.
>>
>> Not at all.
>
> You believe in miracles.
> You don't remember the pre-and-post benchmarks with iOS 10.2 it seems.
>
>> What it means is after the bug fix is that the benchmarks will be pretty
>> much identical.
>
> Apple will greatly chop performance as it was with the iOS 10.2 "fixes."
> Apple "fixed" that problem the same way Apple's going to "fix" this one.
>
>>> Apple sold an inherently untested product which turned out to be defective.
>>> The benchmark results are on that defective product.
>>
>> In any new product and OS release, the chances of bugs is pretty high no
>> matter how much testing was done. These are consumer appliances and
>> there are too many undetermined (undeterminable) cases to test them all.
>
> It's obvious that Apple only tested for overheating after it blew up.
> Same as when the battery issue came up. It couldn't have been tested.
>
>>> It's fast. But too hot.
>>
>> See above. Threads can be very fast and very unproductive. Fix that
>> and life goes on.
>
> Maybe you don't remember how Apple handled a similar issue in the past.
> What happened in the past, is what's going to happen in the future.
>
> Nobody should buy oveheating iPhones until we see all new benchmarks.

You're talking out of your hat.

I used to write real time programs for a living. It is all too easy to
make mistakes and have a section of code run in circles doing nothing
productive but consume power. Fix that bug, and life goes on and no
limits to the product are needed. In a multi-threaded environment (and
iOS is decidedly such), it is even easier to make such errors and harder
to detect them.

I guess Frankie=Arlen?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:21 UTC

On 2023-10-01 23:48, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 19:09:20 -0500, candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>>> At the very least the user should have enough brains not to use utter
>>> crap "Social Media" apps like Instagram.  :-p
>>>
>>
>> While I don't disagree, they should still have some safeguards against
>> rouge apps.
>
> Apple marketing has started the new campaign to solve the problem the way
> they always have solved any bad press in the news about Apple's product.
>
> First Apple will only admit to "slight warming" of the iPhone 15 series.
> Then Apple will "assure the safety" of the new iPhones so rest at ease.
>
> Apple will issue new guidelines explaining not only how to hold it,
> but also the types of Apple-approved fire-safe asbestos-free gloves to use.
>
> These new fire-safe iPhone gloves will be called the iGlove, and will
> retail for $79.99 USD if you wait outside in line at the Apple Store.
>
> In addition, users will have the opportunity to beta test the new ten-foot
> iPole that Apple is selling in various new bold colors like red & yellow.
>
> The new iPoles will be sold for only $39.99 USD so get them now before the
> bold color of your choice sells out (Sorry. Not available in plain white.)

Obviously you need lessons in writing humour effectively.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:24 UTC

On 2023-10-01 23:51, Mickey D wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 17:22:58 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>>> The operating system controls thread scheduling and memory. They can
>>> just lower the apps priority if its past a certain usage percentage, or
>>> outright kill it.
>>
>> Actually the OS _can_ stop the app from consuming excessive resources by
>> shutting it down. There have been complaints by developers of this
>> happening when the app has a legitimate need for those resources.
>
> The only way Apple can stop this problem in software is to cut performance.

Not at all. Because you have 0 understanding of how s/w is designed and
the many pitfalls that can cause CPU load for no productive reason, you
can't understand how a simple fix will remove that problem - and of
course with no effect on performance.

IAC, there are oodles of 3rd party people, unlike you, who are experts
and will use the usual benchmarking tools to see how the phone does
after the corrections are implemented.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:32 UTC

On 2023-10-02 02:06, Peter wrote:
> candycanearter07 wrote on 02.10.2023 00:04
>>> There is a difference between not finding a particular issue in
>>> particular circumstances and "forget[ting]" to test.
>>>
>>> Agreed?
>>
>> If so many people have this issue then it would've come up in testing.
>
> I don't think Alan is correct that Apple "forgot" to test.
> Apple consciously decided not to bother wasting the money to test it.
>
> That's different.
> It was a conscious decision not to test these iPhones for overheating.

BS. Testing s/w is not a trivial thing, and s/w tests only confirm what
is being tested.

There is no way to test for every possible outcome. Least of all on a
new hardware version coupled to a new OS version.

Do note that before even Beta versions were released, within Apple there
were dozens of pre-Beta versions being tested and this contributes to
the overall low number of bugs.

Ironically (and you have to have walked the walk to know so),
implementing bug fixes in one version, can produce an unexpected bug
somewhere down the road in a future version. Digression ahead (Why one
is usually expected to keep functions to as small a thing (less lines of
code) as possible - break up complex functions into more - but simpler
functions)).

>
> It's clear there was no testing for this widespread overheating problem.
> Otherwise it wouldn't be so many situations & so many of them being common.

Test design is not a trivial thing. And most s/w testing is function
positive pass.

>
> Anyone saying it was tested has to first read that Apple said almost
> everything is causing this overheating - which means they didn't test it.

Did they test for this specific outcome?

- Yes: but in the configuration tested, it did not manifest itself.
- Yes: but in the configuration tested, it manifested, but not so much

But most likely the tests did not test for this sort of outcome at all.

> None of this would have been allowed through had there been any testing.
> But there wasn't any testing. That much is clear to everyone. Even Apple.

Clearly you have zero clue about how software test is done.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:38 UTC

On 2023-10-02 09:55, sms wrote:

> For the overheating, they can throttle the CPU under certain conditions
> but it doesn't address the root cause of the need for a better thermal
> solution (vapor chamber).

Laughably stupid. If the cause of the CPU overrun is a bug in s/w, you
don't implement a mechanical change, you implement a software change.

Apple mechanical engineers chose the thermal design based on engineering
the mechanical design. If they determined they would need heat pipes,
they would have done so.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: candycanearter07 - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:48 UTC

On 10/2/23 00:43, Your Name wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:33:26 +0800, Patrick wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At the very least the user should have enough brains not to use
>>>> utter crap "Social Media" apps like Instagram.  :-p
>>>
>>> This idea from Your Name is great as it will instantly solve all of
>>> Apple's overheating iPhone 15 problems while still allowing sales to
>>> proceed.
>
> People not using crappy "Social Media" would solve lots of the world's
> problems in one go!
>

Like how aggressive everyone is.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

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 by: candycanearter07 - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:50 UTC

On 10/2/23 08:25, sms wrote:
> On 10/1/2023 5:41 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> On 10/1/23 19:22, sms wrote:
>>> On 10/1/2023 2:43 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>
>>>> The operating system controls thread scheduling and memory. They can
>>>> just lower the apps priority if its past a certain usage percentage,
>>>> or outright kill it.
>>>
>>> Actually the OS _can_ stop the app from consuming excessive resources
>>> by shutting it down. There have been complaints by developers of this
>>> happening when the app has a legitimate need for those resources.
>>>
>>
>> That's what I said?
>
> Sorry, I was correcting one of our favorite trolls.
>

Oh sorry, Thunderbird sometimes bugs out when displaying messages.
(sometimes hiding them or displaying a previous message instead of the
one I selected)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

<ufelgs$2volv$7@dont-email.me>

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From: no...@thanks.net (candycanearter07)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:53:16 -0500
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 by: candycanearter07 - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:53 UTC

On 10/2/23 08:51, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-10-01 19:04, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> If so many people have this issue then it would've come up in testing.
>
> Depends on what testing is done and how the tests were designed.
>
> If tests look for "did task BB002 complete w/o errors?" and it's
> affirmative then it passes.
>
> If tests look for "did task BB002 complete w/o errors and use little
> CPU, time or result in the temperature not going up" and it's
> affirmative then it passes.
>
> Then, did the above while each of 100's of popular 3rd party apps was
> also running?
>
> This sort of thing shoots off to infinite tests pretty quickly...
>
>
>

Fair, but temperature should be at least measured in testing I'd think.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

<e1BSM.52186$UHH3.9941@fx45.iad>

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:07 UTC

On 2023-10-02 10:53, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 10/2/23 08:51, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-10-01 19:04, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> If so many people have this issue then it would've come up in testing.
>>
>> Depends on what testing is done and how the tests were designed.
>>
>> If tests look for "did task BB002 complete w/o errors?" and it's
>> affirmative then it passes.
>>
>> If tests look for "did task BB002 complete w/o errors and use little
>> CPU, time or result in the temperature not going up" and it's
>> affirmative then it passes.
>>
>> Then, did the above while each of 100's of popular 3rd party apps was
>> also running?
>>
>> This sort of thing shoots off to infinite tests pretty quickly...
>>
>>
>>
>
> Fair, but temperature should be at least measured in testing I'd think.

Silos. Typically, the processor board engineers and mechanical
engineers will work together and test the ability of the box to shed
heat when there is load. And they will have a definition for that test
(numerous tests at the cold end, room temp, max temp). This will
involve very little from the s/w side, other than actions required to
protect the hardware (extreme cold, extreme heat) from damage. (This can
also be done in h/w with the s/w merely displaying a message).

Software testing OS + Apple apps (another silo) is usually done
independently of the processor/mechanical engineers except for some
narrow cases such as protecting the hardware through s/w actions
(Throttling, sleeping, etc.)

And of course interactions with 3rd party apps is a whole other realm.

New h/w.
New OS verion.

Bugs! Really!

But so few.

IAC, in some time in the near future, this will all be a memory.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

<ufemli$2volv$9@dont-email.me>

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From: no...@thanks.net (candycanearter07)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
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 by: candycanearter07 - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:12 UTC

On 10/2/23 10:07, Alan Browne wrote:
> Silos.  Typically, the processor board engineers and mechanical
> engineers will work together and test the ability of the box to shed
> heat when there is load.  And they will have a definition for that test
> (numerous tests at the cold end, room temp, max temp).  This will
> involve very little from the s/w side, other than actions required to
> protect the hardware (extreme cold, extreme heat) from damage. (This can
> also be done in h/w with the s/w merely displaying a message).
>
> Software testing OS + Apple apps (another silo) is usually done
> independently of the processor/mechanical engineers except for some
> narrow cases such as protecting the hardware through s/w actions
> (Throttling, sleeping, etc.)
>
> And of course interactions with 3rd party apps is a whole other realm.
>
> New h/w.
> New OS verion.
>
> Bugs!  Really!
>
> But so few.
>
> IAC, in some time in the near future, this will all be a memory.
>

I actually didn't know that, that makes a lot of sense.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

<ko06u7F5ivsU3@mid.individual.net>

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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way
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 by: Jolly Roger - Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:46 UTC

On 2023-10-02, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 10/1/2023 11:06 PM, Peter wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> It was a conscious decision not to test these iPhones for
>> overheating.
>
> It was likely the belief that since the apps all ran fine on iOS 17 on
> the iPhone 14 Pro/Pro Max that there was no operating system issue
> with those apps.

LOL...

The fact these clowns actually think Apple doesn't test software on new
devices before release tells you all you need to know about their
extreme lack of knowledge of the field. 🤣

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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