To do Whatsapp on a laptop, it also has to be installed on a smart
phone. Whatsapp also suggests an unlimited data plan. Why?

Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?

Does the smart phone act as the transmitter/receiver, still using mobile
data?

Ed wrote:

>
> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?

To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number, that's how your
contacts will find you among their whatsapp contacts ... and of course you grant
permission for meta to suck in your contact database.

Andy Burns wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>
> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number, that's
> how your contacts will find you among their whatsapp contacts ...
> and of course you grant permission for meta to suck in your contact
> database.

Sure, but really privacy-minded people don't use whatsapp and
don't have to install it. They install signal.

-p

Piet wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Ed wrote:
>>
>>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>>
>> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number [...]
>
> Sure, but really privacy-minded people don't use whatsapp and
> don't have to install it. They install signal.

I would happily install Signal, if I thought there would be anyone on there I
would recognise, but in reality that's unlikely ...

Andy Burns wrote:
> Piet wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Ed wrote:
>>>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>>>
>>> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number [...]
>>
>> Sure, but really privacy-minded people don't use whatsapp and
>> don't have to install it. They install signal.
>
> I would happily install Signal, if I thought there would be anyone
> on there I would recognise, but in reality that's unlikely ...

It's that kind of "arguments" that stand in the way of progress.

-p

On 13 Mar 2022 at 23.54.17 GMT+1, "Ed" <eakez@invalid.net> wrote:
>
> Does the smart phone act as the transmitter/receiver, still using mobile
> data?

Yes, it will use your mobile data allowance.

Not just that, if you are installed it on your pc and then use your wifi to
connect to the internet using your home internet
connections, it will also use your home internet data allowance if you don't
have an unlimited data plan for your home connection.

--
-alien-
~ Work like you don't need the money. ~
~ Love like you've never been hurt. ~
~ Dance like nobody is looking. ~

Am 14.03.22 um 11:15 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Piet wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Ed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>>>
>>> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number [...]
>>
>> Sure, but really privacy-minded people don't use whatsapp and
>> don't have to install it. They install signal.
>
> I would happily install Signal, if I thought there would be anyone on there I
> would recognise, but in reality that's unlikely ...

Vicious cycle. I use signal and I have two dozens of active contacts.
With half a dozen I chat regularly.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 14.03.22 um 11:10 schrieb Piet:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>> Ed wrote:
>>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>>
>> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number, that's
>> how your contacts will find you among their whatsapp contacts ...
>> and of course you grant permission for meta to suck in your contact
>> database.
>
>
> Sure, but really privacy-minded people don't use whatsapp and
> don't have to install it. They install signal.

There are even much better soltuions than Signal. Threema for instance.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Ed <eakez@invalid.net> wrote:
> To do Whatsapp on a laptop, it also has to be installed on a smart
> phone.

The actual sending and receiving of messages etc. is done by the (app
on) the smartphone.

The Windows (or Mac) program on the computer is only a companion
program, which allows you to use the computer's big screen, big
keyboard, etc..

> Whatsapp also suggests an unlimited data plan. Why?

That's only needed if you use things like video, audio, big files,
etc.. For normal text messages the data usage is very small.

And when you're not 'mobile', you can use Wi-Fi instead of mobile
data.

> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?

See above. It's not 'also' on the smartphone, it *must* be installed
on the smartphone. The 'also'/optional is on the computer.

> Does the smart phone act as the transmitter/receiver, still using mobile
> data?

See above.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>
> > Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>
> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number, that's how
> your contacts will find you among their whatsapp contacts ... and of
> course you grant permission for meta to suck in your contact database.

Sigh! Urban legend / FUD. This has been discussed and debunked at
length in this group (see early February thread "WhatsApp and
Comminicating Outside the U.S." [sic]).

Granting permission is optional and WhatsApp doesn't "suck in your
contact database". but only stores a cryptographic hash value of the
Non-user's phone numbers:

'Information for people who don't use WhatsApp'
<https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/information-for-people-who-dont-use-whatsapp>

As I mentioned in the referenced thread, this 'Information for people
who don't use WhatsApp' page is pointed to on this page:

'WhatsApp Legal'
<https://www.whatsapp.com/legal>

I'm sure lawyers would have a field day if WhatsApp violated its *own*
policy which is listed under the heading 'WhatsApp LEGAL' and on a
webpage with the URL <https://www.whatsapp.com/LEGAL> (emphasis mine).

Am 14.03.22 um 16:05 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Ed wrote:
>>
>>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>>
>> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number, that's how
>> your contacts will find you among their whatsapp contacts ... and of
>> course you grant permission for meta to suck in your contact database.
>
> Sigh! Urban legend / FUD. This has been discussed and debunked at
> length in this group (see early February thread "WhatsApp and
> Comminicating Outside the U.S." [sic]).
>
> Granting permission is optional and WhatsApp doesn't "suck in your
> contact database".

It does. Otherwise it is not useable.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Andy Burns wrote:

> and of course you grant
> permission for meta to suck in your contact database.

Andy is correct about the contact sqlite database but there are ways around
that which I do which I'm sure Andy is well aware of but others may not be.

We covered this in detail in the past so I'll just be brief by saying that
you can easily set up fully functional WA without giving them your contacts.

You can infrequently dial directly using a WhatsApp Dialer for one example.
And you can create an app icon shortcut for common connections for another.

Look at this screenshot of my telecom folder which shows the apps you need.
<https://i.postimg.cc/636XBckk/whatsapp01.jpg> No need for WA contacts
--
Together we know a lot more about Android privacy than each of us does alone

Piet wrote:

>>>>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>>>>
>>>> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number [...]
>>>
>>> Sure, but really privacy-minded people don't use whatsapp and
>>> don't have to install it. They install signal.
>>
>> I would happily install Signal, if I thought there would be anyone
>> on there I would recognise, but in reality that's unlikely ...
>
> It's that kind of "arguments" that stand in the way of progress.

There's a marketing observation here that I wish to point out to all.

With respect to free worldwide communication apps such as WhatsApp is...
1. MARKETING makes some things easy so that the hoi polloi will use it.
2. People like Andy, Piet, and I am don't fall for that MARKETING ploy.
3. However, the people we communicate afar with _do_ fall for the tricks.

Hence, if we want to communicate with someone in Europe, _they_ already fell
for the MARKETING trick so we're kind of sort of stuck with using WhatsApp.

However, as I've mentioned many times, there's no reason to lose your
privacy when you communicate on WhatsApp as there are apps for private
a. chat
b. dialer
c. contacts
<https://i.postimg.cc/636XBckk/whatsapp01.jpg> No need for WA contacts

The good news is we are never the first ones to care about WA privacy.
All the problems we might have are already solved (you just have to look).
--
Together we know more about Android privacy than any one of us alone.

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Granting permission is optional and WhatsApp doesn't "suck in your
> contact database". but only stores a cryptographic hash value of the
> Non-user's phone numbers:

Fair enough.

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 14.03.22 um 16:05 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
> > Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> >> Ed wrote:
> >>
> >>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
> >>
> >> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number, that's how
> >> your contacts will find you among their whatsapp contacts ... and of
> >> course you grant permission for meta to suck in your contact database.
> >
> > Sigh! Urban legend / FUD. This has been discussed and debunked at
> > length in this group (see early February thread "WhatsApp and
> > Comminicating Outside the U.S." [sic]).
> >
> > Granting permission is optional and WhatsApp doesn't "suck in your
> > contact database".
>
> It does. Otherwise it is not useable.

Nope, it doesn't. RTFR(eference), instead of dishonestly silently
snipping it [1]. Or don't you understand what it says?

[1] And 'conveniently' silently snipping mid-sentence is even lamer.
And no, my typo of a period instead of a comma is no excuse.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > Granting permission is optional and WhatsApp doesn't "suck in your
> > contact database". but only stores a cryptographic hash value of the
> > Non-user's phone numbers:
>
> Fair enough.

Thanks.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

> Ed wrote:
>
>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>
> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number, that's how
> your contacts will find you among their whatsapp contacts ... and of
> course you grant permission for meta to suck in your contact database.

It's not necessary to do that in order to associate the account with a
number. I installed it on a tablet and used an unrelated number.

Also it could run on a PC as Signal does without the phone needing to be
connected.

I think the most likely reason is for them to identify you through
google's play store, and maybe use the google play services.

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 'Information for people who don't use WhatsApp'
> <https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/information-for-people-who-dont-use-whatsapp>
>
> As I mentioned in the referenced thread, this 'Information for people
> who don't use WhatsApp' page is pointed to on this page:
>
> 'WhatsApp Legal'
> <https://www.whatsapp.com/legal>

The last thing people who avoid whatsapp like the plague would do
is visit whatsapp's website.

-p

Richmond wrote:

> I think the most likely reason is for them to identify you through
> google's play store, and maybe use the google play services.

Not through the Google Play Store they can't.
<https://i.postimg.cc/1tKq4jCC/aurora12.jpg>

I don't have a Google Account on my Android phone & WA works just fine.
<https://i.postimg.cc/636XBckk/whatsapp01.jpg>

The Google Play Store app itself is usually completely disabled full time
(although I recently enabled the app to test the Google Play Protect scan).
<https://i.postimg.cc/1tPHPWpK/gpprotect01.jpg> No Google Play account
<https://i.postimg.cc/vBzvmWhw/gpprotect02.jpg> Turn on Play Protect scan
<https://i.postimg.cc/fyRfSJqt/gpprotect03.jpg> Google Play App Updates

Maybe through Google Play Services though as you can't disable it easily.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cJGyXxZz/gpsservices02.jpg>

Ask me how I know.
--
Usenet is a team sport where each person owns a set of professional skills.

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> writes:

> Richmond wrote:
>
>> I think the most likely reason is for them to identify you through
>> google's play store, and maybe use the google play services.
>
> Not through the Google Play Store they can't.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/1tKq4jCC/aurora12.jpg>
>
> I don't have a Google Account on my Android phone & WA works just fine.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/636XBckk/whatsapp01.jpg>
>
> The Google Play Store app itself is usually completely disabled full time
> (although I recently enabled the app to test the Google Play Protect scan).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/1tPHPWpK/gpprotect01.jpg> No Google Play account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/vBzvmWhw/gpprotect02.jpg> Turn on Play Protect scan
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fyRfSJqt/gpprotect03.jpg> Google Play App Updates
>
> Maybe through Google Play Services though as you can't disable it easily.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/cJGyXxZz/gpsservices02.jpg>
>
> Ask me how I know.

Perhaps they can work out who you are from this? For advertising they
only need a unique id.

"Device And Connection Information.
We collect device and connection-specific information when you install,
access, or use our Services. This includes information such as hardware
model, operating system information, battery level, signal strength, app
version, browser information, mobile network, connection information
including whether you are using wifi or cellular data, mobile operator
or internet service provider (ISP), language and time zone, IP address,
device operations information and identifiers (including identifiers
unique to Meta Company Products associated with the same device or
account)."

https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy-eea#privacy-policy-info-you-provide-your-account-information

Richmond wrote:

> This includes information such as hardware
> model, operating system information, battery level, signal strength, app
> version, browser information, mobile network, connection information
> including whether you are using wifi or cellular data, mobile operator
> or internet service provider (ISP), language and time zone, IP address,
> device operations information and identifiers (including identifiers
> unique to Meta Company Products associated with the same device or
> account)."

Oh. That's pretty bad. Even worse than I would have thought it would be.
That's enough meta data to make everyone unique I would think.
Some we can spoof such as connection information but most is hard to spoof.

What we need is an app that randomly spoofs all that meta data.

For example on my PC I have the timezone randomly change via a script.
And the IP address changes randomly via any of six thousand VPN servers.

Am 14.03.22 um 20:43 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 14.03.22 um 16:05 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
>>> Granting permission is optional and WhatsApp doesn't "suck in your
>>> contact database".
>>
>> It does. Otherwise it is not useable.
>
> Nope, it doesn't.

Certainly it does. That's long proven. And it is the major reason why
most companies in Europe do not allow WA on their company-phones anymore.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 14.03.22 um 20:41 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> Granting permission is optional and WhatsApp doesn't "suck in your
>> contact database". but only stores a cryptographic hash value of the
>> Non-user's phone numbers:
>
> Fair enough.

And WA is the only one that can decrypt this hash value and misuse it.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 14.03.22 um 22:22 schrieb Piet:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> 'Information for people who don't use WhatsApp'
>> <https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/information-for-people-who-dont-use-whatsapp>
>>
>> As I mentioned in the referenced thread, this 'Information for people
>> who don't use WhatsApp' page is pointed to on this page:
>>
>> 'WhatsApp Legal'
>> <https://www.whatsapp.com/legal>
>
> The last thing people who avoid whatsapp like the plague would do
> is visit whatsapp's website.

*SIC*!

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 2022-03-14 11:15, Andy Burns wrote:
> Piet wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Ed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why does Whatsapp also have to be installed on a smart phone?
>>>
>>> To associate your whatsapp account with the phone number [...]
>>
>> Sure, but really privacy-minded people don't use whatsapp and
>> don't have to install it. They install signal.
>
> I would happily install Signal, if I thought there would be anyone on
> there I would recognise, but in reality that's unlikely ...

I have Signal installed, but nobody uses it, of my contacts.

--
Cheers, Carlos.