On 2023-08-22, ultr...@gmail.com <ultradwc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> can you ask Process to port Purveyor to intel OpenVMS? VSI should assist as they really need to offer a webserver that isn't ported from unix
> like tomcat. Purveyor is much simpler to use.

Tomcat Bob ??? Are you confusing it with Apache ?

Why would people spend money buying Purveyor when Apache is available ?

How much effort would be involved in bringing Purveyor up to modern
standards ?

What is the possible business case for either Process or VSI to spend
money and time on modernising Purveyor when everyone knows Apache and
Apache is freely available for VMS ?

And what exactly is the problem with software ported from Unix anyway ?
A lot of code that VSI are using on x86-64 VMS elsewhere came from there
(for example LLVM/clang/etc).

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 8/22/2023 1:37 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-08-22, ultr...@gmail.com <ultradwc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> can you ask Process to port Purveyor to intel OpenVMS? VSI should assist as they really need to offer a webserver that isn't ported from unix
>> like tomcat. Purveyor is much simpler to use.

Instead of asking others to work on what you know, (can't believe I'm writing
this), perhaps consider learning WASD?

> Tomcat Bob ??? Are you confusing it with Apache ?

Don't you know, Bob is always confused? Must be that ASR33.

> Why would people spend money buying Purveyor when Apache is available ?

Why would anyone use any other, when WASD, developed for VMS, is available, and
the price is right?

> How much effort would be involved in bringing Purveyor up to modern
> standards ?

More than zero ...

> What is the possible business case for either Process or VSI to spend
> money and time on modernising Purveyor when everyone knows Apache and
> Apache is freely available for VMS ?
>
> And what exactly is the problem with software ported from Unix anyway ?
> A lot of code that VSI are using on x86-64 VMS elsewhere came from there
> (for example LLVM/clang/etc).

The Unix mindset can be confusing ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Den 2023-08-22 kl. 19:37, skrev Simon Clubley:
> On 2023-08-22, ultr...@gmail.com <ultradwc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> can you ask Process to port Purveyor to intel OpenVMS? VSI should assist as they really need to offer a webserver that isn't ported from unix
>> like tomcat. Purveyor is much simpler to use.
>
> Tomcat Bob ??? Are you confusing it with Apache ?
>
> Why would people spend money buying Purveyor when Apache is available ?
>
> How much effort would be involved in bringing Purveyor up to modern
> standards ?
>
> What is the possible business case for either Process or VSI to spend
> money and time on modernising Purveyor when everyone knows Apache and
> Apache is freely available for VMS ?
>
> And what exactly is the problem with software ported from Unix anyway ?
> A lot of code that VSI are using on x86-64 VMS elsewhere came from there
> (for example LLVM/clang/etc).
>
> Simon.
>

WASD is available (also for x86-64) and it is already up to the latest
standards.

On 8/22/2023 1:37 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> How much effort would be involved in bringing Purveyor up to modern
> standards ?

Way too much! That's why we let Purveyor die. Plus, in a world where
WASD exists, there's no need for Purveyor. Mark Daniels has done amazing
work on WASD over the years.

Purveyor was a great web server in its time, but its time was over about
25 years ago.

--
Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/
goathunter@goatley.com http://hunter.goatley.com/

On 8/22/2023 2:39 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 8/22/2023 1:37 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> Why would people spend money buying Purveyor when Apache is available ?
>
> Why would anyone use any other, when WASD, developed for VMS, is
> available, and the price is right?

WASD is supposedly a very nice HTTP server.

I can see 3 reasons to prefer Apache over WASD:
* VSI supports Apache
* you can run the same HTTP server on VMS, *nix, Windows etc.
* the Apache module system is a thing it itself and if someone
want to use Apache module XYZ then Apache is required

None of these are technical per se but non the less real.

If one just need a HTTP server on ones VMS system to
do some VMS specific stuff, then WASD is a very attractive
option.

(personally I am behind the times and still primarily use OSU
for that purpose)

Arne

On 8/22/2023 1:37 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-08-22, ultr...@gmail.com <ultradwc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> can you ask Process to port Purveyor to intel OpenVMS? VSI should
>> assist as they really need to offer a webserver that isn't ported
>> from unix like tomcat. Purveyor is much simpler to use. >
> Tomcat Bob ??? Are you confusing it with Apache ?

There must be some confusion.

To his defense then there are a few external factors
contributing to the confusion:
* "Apache httpd" is a HTTP server, "Apache Tomcat"
is a servlet container (or servlet engine), "Apache
Software Foundation" is the open source org behind
both and a ton of other open source - a lot of Apache
* CPQ/HP/HPE/VSI has branded "Apache httpd" as CSWS
and "Apache Tomcat" and CSWS_JAVA to confuse everybody
* despite being a servlet container intended to serve
Java servlets and JSP pages then Tomcat does serve
static content like HTML and graphics just fine (Tomcat
even support SSI similar to Apache httpd)

Arne

On 23/08/2023 00:26, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 8/22/2023 1:37 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-08-22, ultr...@gmail.com <ultradwc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> can you ask Process to port Purveyor to intel OpenVMS? VSI should
>>> assist as they really need to offer a webserver that isn't ported
>>> from unix like tomcat. Purveyor is much simpler to use. >
>> Tomcat Bob ??? Are you confusing it with Apache ?
>
> There must be some confusion.
>
> To his defense then there are a few external factors
> contributing to the confusion:
> * "Apache httpd" is a HTTP server, "Apache Tomcat"
>   is a servlet container (or servlet engine), "Apache
>   Software Foundation" is the open source org behind
>   both and a ton of other open source - a lot of Apache
> * CPQ/HP/HPE/VSI has branded "Apache httpd" as CSWS
>   and "Apache Tomcat" and CSWS_JAVA to confuse everybody
> * despite being a servlet container intended to serve
>   Java servlets and JSP pages then Tomcat does serve
>   static content like HTML and graphics just fine (Tomcat
>   even support SSI similar to Apache httpd)
>
> Arne

Over in here in Britain, we don't want the Apaches following us!

--
Chris

On 2023-08-22, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:
>
> WASD is available (also for x86-64) and it is already up to the latest
> standards.

Oops, I completely forgot about WASD when posting that reply. Sorry Mark. :-)

So, there you go Bob, there is indeed a nice modern web server for VMS
that is not a port from Unix and which you can use today instead of
waiting for an apparently long-obsolete Purveyor to somehow be
resurrected even though there's no longer any possible market for it.

It appears the following is the WASD website:

https://wasd.vsm.com.au/

and the site itself is running on the WASD web server.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:12:32 AM UTC-4, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-08-22, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
> >
> > WASD is available (also for x86-64) and it is already up to the latest
> > standards.
> Oops, I completely forgot about WASD when posting that reply. Sorry Mark. :-)
>
> So, there you go Bob, there is indeed a nice modern web server for VMS
> that is not a port from Unix and which you can use today instead of
> waiting for an apparently long-obsolete Purveyor to somehow be
> resurrected even though there's no longer any possible market for it.
>
> It appears the following is the WASD website:
>
> https://wasd.vsm.com.au/
>
> and the site itself is running on the WASD web server.
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

and what happens when Mark can't support purveyor anymore? Tomcat means apache unix garbage, and VSI needs their own webserver ... and purveyor
would be a lot easier to maintain than apache. Look how far it is behind currently. You are not going to attract new customers that way ...
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Subject: Re: Purveyor
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On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:12:32 AM UTC-4, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-08-22, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
> >
> > WASD is available (also for x86-64) and it is already up to the latest
> > standards.
> Oops, I completely forgot about WASD when posting that reply. Sorry Mark. :-)
>
> So, there you go Bob, there is indeed a nice modern web server for VMS
> that is not a port from Unix and which you can use today instead of
> waiting for an apparently long-obsolete Purveyor to somehow be
> resurrected even though there's no longer any possible market for it.
>
> It appears the following is the WASD website:
>
> https://wasd.vsm.com.au/
>
> and the site itself is running on the WASD web server.
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

and what happens when Mark can't support purveyor anymore? Tomcat means apache unix garbage, and VSI needs their own webserver ... and purveyor
would be a lot easier to maintain than apache. Look how far it is behind currently. You are not going to attract new customers that way ...

On 2023-08-23, ultr...@gmail.com <ultradwc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:12:32?AM UTC-4, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-08-22, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > WASD is available (also for x86-64) and it is already up to the latest
>> > standards.
>> Oops, I completely forgot about WASD when posting that reply. Sorry Mark. :-)
>>
>> So, there you go Bob, there is indeed a nice modern web server for VMS
>> that is not a port from Unix and which you can use today instead of
>> waiting for an apparently long-obsolete Purveyor to somehow be
>> resurrected even though there's no longer any possible market for it.
>>
>> It appears the following is the WASD website:
>>
>> https://wasd.vsm.com.au/
>>
>> and the site itself is running on the WASD web server.
>> Simon.
>>
>
> and what happens when Mark can't support purveyor anymore? Tomcat means apache unix garbage, and VSI needs their own webserver ... and purveyor
> would be a lot easier to maintain than apache. Look how far it is behind currently. You are not going to attract new customers that way ...

Huh ? HUH ???? (and one more time) HUH ???!!!???

Bob, do you _even_ read or think before posting ?

Mark is working on WASD (not Purveyor).

You have already been told Tomcat is not the Apache webserver and they
are two very different products.

You have already been told Purveyor is massively out of date and it is
not viable to bring it forward to modern standards, especially given the
current alternatives available.

Who do you think would buy Purveyor and in sufficient quantities to make
porting viable when multiple alternatives exist ?

Why exactly does VSI need their own webserver ? That's not their primary
market and if for some weird reason they needed an alternative to Apache,
they are much more likely to port something like NGINX instead, which would
not need all the work doing to it that Purveyor does.

In your statement "Look how far it is behind currently.", what exactly are
you referring to (because I can't tell) ?

One more time: Purveyor is obsolete and multiple alternatives exist.
Pick one and use it instead, because Purveyor is not coming back, no
matter how much you might wish it would.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 8/23/2023 12:07 PM, ultr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:12:32 AM UTC-4, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-08-22, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
>>> WASD is available (also for x86-64) and it is already up to the latest
>>> standards.
>> Oops, I completely forgot about WASD when posting that reply. Sorry Mark. :-)
>>
>> So, there you go Bob, there is indeed a nice modern web server for VMS
>> that is not a port from Unix and which you can use today instead of
>> waiting for an apparently long-obsolete Purveyor to somehow be
>> resurrected even though there's no longer any possible market for it.
>
> and what happens when Mark can't support purveyor anymore?

Same as with any other open source or commercial product
where the people behind it decide to stop support.

If it is open source then somebody else can potentially
take over the support.

> Tomcat means apache unix garbage,

As already explained then Apache Tomcat is a servlet container that
are able buy not intended to work as web server like Apache httpd.

Apache Tomcat is Java based not native code. And while Apache httpd
was first developed on *nix, then it does work on many other platforms
including Windows and VMS.

Arne

On 8/23/2023 1:30 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-08-23, ultr...@gmail.com <ultradwc@gmail.com> wrote:

>> and what happens when Mark can't support purveyor anymore? Tomcat means apache unix garbage, and VSI needs their own webserver ... and purveyor
>> would be a lot easier to maintain than apache. Look how far it is behind currently. You are not going to attract new customers that way ...
>
> Huh ? HUH ???? (and one more time) HUH ???!!!???
>
> Bob, do you _even_ read or think before posting ?
>
> Mark is working on WASD (not Purveyor).

I think I mentioned that he is confused ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486