(Note crosspost.)

I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:

https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/

That size is perfect, but I'd really prefer USB not bluetooth. USB just
works, and bluetooth just has pairing issues so often. I'm not looking
for "large enough to touchtype on" but I am looking for QWERTY and
basic shell and vi keys.

My usage would be for both Raspberry Pi and for Android. I did some web
searches and found a ~4 year old forum post with a recomendation
specifically for Pi use, but (a) that product is discontinued and (b) it
was much larger anyway, more than twice as tall and twice as wide.

Anyone know of such a thing at a not-too-outrageous price?

Elijah
------
might consider smaller keyboards, too

On 4/13/2022 4:11 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> (Note crosspost.)
>
> I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/

That is not Bluetooth. It's 2.4GHz wireless with a USB-A 2.4 GHz
receiver. You'd need a USB-C OTG to USB-A adapter, for the 2.4 GHz
receiver, to use it with an Android phone.

The advantage of the 2.4 GHz devices is that no Bluetooth drivers are
needed. They work fine with Android phones with none of the Bluetooth
pairing issues, plus they use much less power than a Bluetooth keyboard,
so you don't have to charge them as often.

The disadvantage is that you have to plug the USB-A 2.4 GHz receiver
into the phone. I haven't seen any USB-C size 2.4GHz receivers so you
have to use an OTG adapter.

See <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003260924140.html>

In comp.sys.raspberry-pi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone know of such a thing at a not-too-outrageous price?

Probably an outrageous price, but this seems to be made as an
exact response to your problem:
https://www.tindie.com/products/bobricius/mini-piqwerty-usb-keyboard/

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 14/04/2022 00:11, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> (Note crosspost.)
>
> I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/
>
> That size is perfect, but I'd really prefer USB not bluetooth. USB just
> works, and bluetooth just has pairing issues so often. I'm not looking
> for "large enough to touchtype on" but I am looking for QWERTY and
> basic shell and vi keys.
>
> My usage would be for both Raspberry Pi and for Android. I did some web
> searches and found a ~4 year old forum post with a recomendation
> specifically for Pi use, but (a) that product is discontinued and (b) it
> was much larger anyway, more than twice as tall and twice as wide.
>
> Anyone know of such a thing at a not-too-outrageous price?
>
> Elijah
> ------
> might consider smaller keyboards, too

I have two of these, I can use them on anything with a USB socket.

(Search term 'wireless mini keyboard i8 air mouse keypad')

Example on On Ebay;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313857313144?epid=18040061536&hash=item49135a8978:g:KDIAAOSw-vpfKZBC

Above has a clear picture of it's country layout (not UK).

On 4/14/2022 4:24 AM, Patrick wrote:
> On 14/04/2022 00:11, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> (Note crosspost.)
>>
>> I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/
>>
>>
>> That size is perfect, but I'd really prefer USB not bluetooth. USB just
>> works, and bluetooth just has pairing issues so often. I'm not looking
>> for "large enough to touchtype on" but I am looking for QWERTY and
>> basic shell and vi keys.
>>
>> My usage would be for both Raspberry Pi and for Android. I did some web
>> searches and found a ~4 year old forum post with a recomendation
>> specifically for Pi use, but (a) that product is discontinued and (b) it
>> was much larger anyway, more than twice as tall and twice as wide.
>>
>> Anyone know of such a thing at a not-too-outrageous price?
>>
>> Elijah
>> ------
>> might consider smaller keyboards, too
>
> I have two of these, I can use them on anything with a USB socket.
>
> (Search term 'wireless mini keyboard i8 air mouse keypad')

Except that he explicitly stated that he wanted a _wired_ keyboard.

Part of the confusion is that what he really appears to not want is a
Bluetooth keyboard. It is true that Bluetooth can sometimes be
problematic in terms of pairing and also in terms of power consumption.

The link the original poster provided was not for a Bluetooth keyboard
it was for a 2.4 GHz keyboard with its own receiver. In my experience
These are much less finicky than a Bluetooth keyboard. There's no
Bluetooth pairing required and it will work with most any Android or
other device (except of course iOS devices with Lightning ports).

The upside of a Bluetooth keyboard and/or mouse is that there's no need
for a USB receiver module.

I have a mouse that is switchable between 2.4 GHz and Bluetooth, and it
comes with a 2.4 GHz receiver. But the mini-keyboards I've seen are all
one or the other, and not switchable.

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

> (Note crosspost.)
>
> I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/
>
> That size is perfect, but I'd really prefer USB not bluetooth.

I would ask in...

alt.comp.os.windows-10

In article <t39fih$v6n$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Part of the confusion is that what he really appears to not want is a
> Bluetooth keyboard. It is true that Bluetooth can sometimes be
> problematic in terms of pairing and also in terms of power consumption.

bluetooth is *extremely* reliable. very rarely is it a problem.

> The link the original poster provided was not for a Bluetooth keyboard
> it was for a 2.4 GHz keyboard with its own receiver. In my experience
> These are much less finicky than a Bluetooth keyboard.

your experience is different than the rest of the world, plus those
dongles are often lost, rendering such a keyboard or mouse completely
useless.

> There's no
> Bluetooth pairing required and it will work with most any Android or
> other device (except of course iOS devices with Lightning ports).

it absolutely will work with ios. both a wireless usb keyboard with a
dongle or a wired usb keyboard will work.

all that's needed is a lightning-usb adapter, just as android will need
a usb-c to usb-a adapter (or micro-usb for older android devices).

of course, a standard bluetooth keyboard will work with both ios and
android without needing any adapters or transceivers.

> The upside of a Bluetooth keyboard and/or mouse is that there's no need
> for a USB receiver module.

that is a significant upside.

wireless keyboards that require a usb adapter and use a usb port have
almost no advantage over a wired keyboard that use the same usb port.

On 4/14/2022 8:45 AM, sms wrote:

<snip>

> I have a mouse that is switchable between 2.4 GHz and Bluetooth, and it
> comes with a 2.4 GHz receiver. But the mini-keyboards I've seen are all
> one or the other, and not switchable.

Actually there is a switchable Bluetooth/2.4 GHz model, see
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TS7TQ8J/>.

nospam wrote:

> your experience is different than the rest of the world, plus those
> dongles are often lost, rendering such a keyboard or mouse completely
> useless.

Didn't nospam advocate for iPhone dongles to replace the missing aux port?
--
Apple's strategy is to remove basic functionality so that you buy it back.

In article <t39p5k$io6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> Didn't nospam advocate for iPhone dongles to replace the missing aux port?

no, nor has there ever been an 'aux port' to go missing.

nospam wrote:

>> Didn't nospam advocate for iPhone dongles to replace the missing aux port?
>
> no, nor has there ever been an 'aux port' to go missing.

Semantics.

What do you want to call the "courageous" missing port then?

And why did you advocate for dongles to replace that missing functionality?
--
Apple's strategy is to remove basic functionality so that you buy it back.

In article <t39qae$12jc$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> >> Didn't nospam advocate for iPhone dongles to replace the missing aux port?
> >
> > no, nor has there ever been an 'aux port' to go missing.
>
> Semantics.

nope.

> What do you want to call the "courageous" missing port then?

analog headphone jack, which is not the same as an 'aux port'.

> And why did you advocate for dongles to replace that missing functionality?

i didn't, mainly because there is no need for any dongle.

the headphones *in* *the* *box* plugged directly into the phone without
needing anything extra.

On 14/04/2022 00:11, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> (Note crosspost.)
>
> I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/
>
> That size is perfect, but I'd really prefer USB not bluetooth. USB just
> works, and bluetooth just has pairing issues so often. I'm not looking
> for "large enough to touchtype on" but I am looking for QWERTY and
> basic shell and vi keys.

I have one very similar to that, it uses a USB wireless dongle rather
than USB. It works ok, but is very small small and can be fiddly so only
suitable for occasional use, like controlling a media player. You have
to slow down repeating characters or it only registers one press. The
one I have isn't backlit, but there are variants which are.

Slightly larger and much better solution is this one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07RNCJ39B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It can be used with a wireless dongle or Bluetooth. The buttons are more
comfortable to use, so can be used for small amounts of typing, although
the layout is slightly non standard. Its backlit so great for using in
the dark, other highlights are the scroll wheel, two finger gestures on
the touchpad, and the left and right mouse buttons on top of the units.

---druck

nospam wrote:

> In article <t39qae$12jc$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
> <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>> Didn't nospam advocate for iPhone dongles to replace the missing aux port?
>>>
>>> no, nor has there ever been an 'aux port' to go missing.
>>
>> Semantics.
>
> nope.

A GSM Arena search <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?> calls it:
"3.5mm jack"
>> What do you want to call the "courageous" missing port then?
>
> analog headphone jack, which is not the same as an 'aux port'.

A search shows 6,476 "courageous" phones that have the industry standard
functionality of the 3.5mm jack which does many things which are
_impossible_ do to without (just as an sd card does useful things which
are impossible to do without).

This is a list of the phones that support the industry standard 3.5mm jack.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?chk35mm=selected>
Unfortunately the laughably primitive latest iPhones aren't in that list.

Hell, there's not even a _single_ iPhone ever made with a modern battery.
And modern functionality of a fast charger is missing from the iPhone box.
So are the missing headphones which made Apple tens of billions of dollars!

Nobody ever said Apple wasn't a MARKETING powerhouse of the finest order.

One by one, Apple's strategy is to _cripple_ the laughably archaic iPhone.
So that you're forced to buy back basic functionality Apple has removed.

>> And why did you advocate for dongles to replace that missing functionality?
>
> i didn't, mainly because there is no need for any dongle.

Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired headset.
If Apple hadn't removed the basic functionality, there wouldn't be the need.
> the headphones *in* *the* *box* plugged directly into the phone without
> needing anything extra.

What headphones comes *in the box" with the latest iPhones, nospam?
--
Apple made tens of billions by NOT shipping the charger & earbuds.

On 2022-04-14 2:10 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article <t39qae$12jc$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
>> <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>> Didn't nospam advocate for iPhone dongles to replace the missing
>>>>> aux port?
>>>>
>>>> no, nor has there ever been an 'aux port' to go missing.
>>>
>>> Semantics.
>>
>> nope.
>
> A GSM Arena search <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?> calls it:
> "3.5mm jack"

Which is not "aux port"...

....is it?

:-)

>
>>> What do you want to call the "courageous" missing port then?
>>
>> analog headphone jack, which is not the same as an 'aux port'.
>
> A search shows 6,476 "courageous" phones that have the industry standard
> functionality of the 3.5mm jack which does many things which are
> _impossible_ do to without (just as an sd card does useful things which
> are impossible to do without).

It's not an industry standard.

>
> This is a list of the phones that support the industry standard 3.5mm jack.
> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?chk35mm=selected>
> Unfortunately the laughably primitive latest iPhones aren't in that list.

Deciding to provide a different solution isn't "primitive"

>
> Hell, there's not even a _single_ iPhone ever made with a modern battery.
> And modern functionality of a fast charger is missing from the iPhone box.
> So are the missing headphones which made Apple tens of billions of dollars!
>
> Nobody ever said Apple wasn't a MARKETING powerhouse of the finest order.
>
> One by one, Apple's strategy is to _cripple_ the laughably archaic iPhone.
> So that you're forced to buy back basic functionality Apple has removed.
>

You mean there aren't Lightning earphones?

>>> And why did you advocate for dongles to replace that missing
>>> functionality?
>>
>> i didn't, mainly because there is no need for any dongle.
>
> Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired headset.

No. They did not.

> If Apple hadn't removed the basic functionality, there wouldn't be the
> need.
>
>> the headphones *in* *the* *box* plugged directly into the phone without
>> needing anything extra.
>
> What headphones comes *in the box" with the latest iPhones, nospam?

None. What of it?

Do all Android phones come with headphones?

In article <t3a2k4$gob$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired headset.

they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a digital
headphone jack and included wired headsets in the box that plugged
directly into the phone, *without* any adapters or dongles.

nospam wrote:

>> Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired headset.
>
> they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a digital
> headphone jack and included wired headsets in the box that plugged
> directly into the phone, *without* any adapters or dongles.

You proved my point for me.
Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they removed.

In article <t3ccqp$1o86$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they removed.

there's nothing to buy back and apple *added* functionality not
previously present.

nospam wrote:

>> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they removed.
>
> there's nothing to buy back and apple *added* functionality not
> previously present.

a. Apple's strategy is to slowly remove basic functionality - one at a time.
b. Each year Apple gives a _different_ excuse for the loss of functionality.
c. Yet, it's always so that you must _buy_ the missing functionality back.

Besides...
1. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _never_ had the
in-device _portable_ storage capacity that almost all other phones have?

2. How did Apple "add" functionality when Apple _removed_ the industry
standard 3.5mm jack which never negated bluetooth if people wanted it?

3. How did Apple "add" functionality by subsequently removing the headphones
from the box which they needed to add when they removed the 3.5mm jack?

4. How did Apple "add" functionality when they then removed the charging
brick from the box so now people have to shop for a proper fast charger?

5. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _crippled_ webkit so that it
can't possibly have the privacy functionality of the Tor Browser?

The list can go on forever given the reason the iPhone is crippled in app
functionality isn't the lack of hardware so much as the lack of the ability
of developers to meet demand because Apple _refuses_ to allow them in the
App Store.

Apple cripples iOS by preventing app functionality.
There's a ton of useful app functionality on Android that isn't on iOS.
--
And yet, there's _zero_ app functionality on iOS not _already_ on Android.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:03:15 -0400
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <t3a2k4$gob$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
> <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
> > headset.
>
> they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a digital

Yes they did - specifically they removed the ability to use
analogue headphones/headsets.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-04-15 11:17 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
>>> headset.
>>
>> they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a digital
>> headphone jack and included wired headsets in the box that plugged
>> directly into the phone, *without* any adapters or dongles.
>
> You proved my point for me.
> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they removed.

Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with another.

On 2022-04-15 11:56 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they
>>> removed.
>>
>> there's nothing to buy back and apple *added* functionality not
>> previously present.
>
> a. Apple's strategy is to slowly remove basic functionality - one at a
> time.
> b. Each year Apple gives a _different_ excuse for the loss of
> functionality.
> c. Yet, it's always so that you must _buy_ the missing functionality back.
>
> Besides... 1. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _never_ had
> the   in-device _portable_ storage capacity that almost all other phones
> have?
>
> 2. How did Apple "add" functionality when Apple _removed_ the industry
> standard 3.5mm jack which never negated bluetooth if people wanted it?

It's not an industry standard.

GSMArena shows 2519 phones currently available or coming soon.

Only 1994 have a 3.5mm audio jack.

>
> 3. How did Apple "add" functionality by subsequently removing the
> headphones
>   from the box which they needed to add when they removed the 3.5mm jack?

Not including an accessory is NOT "remov[ing] basic functionality".

>
> 4. How did Apple "add" functionality when they then removed the charging
>   brick from the box so now people have to shop for a proper fast charger?

Same rebuttal.

>
> 5. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _crippled_ webkit so that it
>   can't possibly have the privacy functionality of the Tor Browser?

Choosing not to do something is not removing functionality.

>
> The list can go on forever given the reason the iPhone is crippled in app
> functionality isn't the lack of hardware so much as the lack of the ability
> of developers to meet demand because Apple _refuses_ to allow them in the
> App Store.
>
> Apple cripples iOS by preventing app functionality.
> There's a ton of useful app functionality on Android that isn't on iOS.

In article <20220415194844.24fd718cf5bf6c65c3a3b8cf@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> > > Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
> > > headset.
> >
> > they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a digital
>
> Yes they did - specifically they removed the ability to use
> analogue headphones/headsets.

because digital headphones offer more features and better reliability.

In article <t3cffi$nda$1@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>
> Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with another.

yep, and one that has more functionality and better reliability than
what it replaced.

sales went *up*, which means nobody cared, other than a tiny, yet very
vocal minority of apple haters who have nothing better to do than bash.

and why is this crossposted to raspberry pi anyway? it has absolutely
nothing to do with raspberry pi, but since it is, the raspberry pi zero
doesn't have an analog headphone jack, nor does it come with a power
adapter either. think about that, a computer that doesn't come with a
power adapter.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:05:53 -0700, Alan wrote:

> On 2022-04-15 11:56 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>
>>>> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they
>>>> removed.
>>>
>>> there's nothing to buy back and apple *added* functionality not
>>> previously present.
>>
>> a. Apple's strategy is to slowly remove basic functionality - one at a
>> time.
>> b. Each year Apple gives a _different_ excuse for the loss of
>> functionality.
>> c. Yet, it's always so that you must _buy_ the missing functionality
>> back.
>>
>> Besides... 1. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _never_ had
>> the   in-device _portable_ storage capacity that almost all other
>> phones have?
>>
>> 2. How did Apple "add" functionality when Apple _removed_ the industry
>> standard 3.5mm jack which never negated bluetooth if people wanted it?
>
> It's not an industry standard.
>
> GSMArena shows 2519 phones currently available or coming soon.
>
> Only 1994 have a 3.5mm audio jack.
>
so the vast majority, it is also the standard format for headphones on
almost all legacy audio devices. if not an actual official standard then
at lease a defacto one.
>
>> 3. How did Apple "add" functionality by subsequently removing the
>> headphones
>>   from the box which they needed to add when they removed the 3.5mm
>>   jack?
>
> Not including an accessory is NOT "remov[ing] basic functionality".
>
but it is removing functionality that previous models had - the point that
was being made but you deliberately chose to distort it to support your
need to be contrary to the majority opinion
>
>> 4. How did Apple "add" functionality when they then removed the
>> charging
>>   brick from the box so now people have to shop for a proper fast
>>   charger?
>
> Same rebuttal.
>
A charger is an accessory? only by the most pedantic of definitions as the
device cannot operate without a means of charging.
Removal of the PSU is clearly a cost saving exercise (for apple as they do
not appear to pass it on to the consumer) & as Apple use proprietary
charging skts forces users who don't already have one to spend additional
cash
>

>> 5. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _crippled_ webkit so
>> that it
>>   can't possibly have the privacy functionality of the Tor Browser?
>
> Choosing not to do something is not removing functionality.
>

>
>> The list can go on forever given the reason the iPhone is crippled in
>> app functionality isn't the lack of hardware so much as the lack of the
>> ability of developers to meet demand because Apple _refuses_ to allow
>> them in the App Store.
>>
>> Apple cripples iOS by preventing app functionality.
>> There's a ton of useful app functionality on Android that isn't on iOS.

I see that you are trying to make this news group as unbearable as others
you frequent with your deliberate attempts to provoke & continue
controversy to absurdity.

--
When a lion meets another with a louder roar,
the first lion thinks the last a bore.
-- G. B. Shaw