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computers / comp.misc / Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

SubjectAuthor
* USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixRobert
+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
|`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyRetrograde
| +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixyeti
| +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyrdh
| |+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| ||`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyrdh
| || +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| || |`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyrdh
| || | +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| || | |`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| || | +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| || | `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| || `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixscott
| ||  +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
| ||  |`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyScott Dorsey
| ||  `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
| |+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| ||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| |||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAnton Shepelev
| ||||`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| |||| `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
| ||||  +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| ||||  |`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixJulieta Shem
| ||||  | `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| ||||  |  `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixJulieta Shem
| ||||  `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyScott Dorsey
| |||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyScott Dorsey
| ||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixRich
| |||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| ||||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| |||`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixscott
| ||| `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixRich
| ||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAnton Shepelev
| |||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixRich
| ||||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| |||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| ||||`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| |||| +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| |||| |+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| |||| ||+- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| |||| ||`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| |||| || `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| |||| |`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
| |||| | +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| |||| | `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyScott Dorsey
| |||| |  `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixJulieta Shem
| |||| |   +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAndy Burns
| |||| |   |`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| |||| |   `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixScott Dorsey
| |||| |    `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| |||| `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| ||||  +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| ||||  |`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| ||||  | +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| ||||  | |`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock
| ||||  | | `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| ||||  | `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyRetrograde
| ||||  |  +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| ||||  |  |+- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| ||||  |  |`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyrdh
| ||||  |  `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| ||||  |   `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| ||||  |    `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| ||||  |     +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| ||||  |     `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| ||||  |      +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| ||||  |      |+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| ||||  |      ||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixRich
| ||||  |      |`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixComputer Nerd Kev
| ||||  |      `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyRetrograde
| ||||  `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| ||||   +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| ||||   +* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| ||||   |`* Filtering googlegroups. [was: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again likJavier
| ||||   | `* Re: Filtering googlegroups. [was: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises againSpiros Bousbouras
| ||||   |  `* Re: Filtering googlegroups. [was: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises againRich
| ||||   |   `- Re: Filtering googlegroups. [was: Re: USENET, the OG social network,The Real Bev
| ||||   `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAnton Shepelev
| ||||    +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAnton Shepelev
| ||||    `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSpiros Bousbouras
| ||||     `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixRich
| |||`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyScott Dorsey
| ||| `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAnton Shepelev
| |||  `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyScott Dorsey
| |||   `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAnton Shepelev
| ||+- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyThe Real Bev
| ||`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
| || `* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixyeti
| ||  +- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlycandycanearter07
| ||  `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| |+- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixyeti
| |+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyRetrograde
| ||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyrdh
| |+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixJohn McCue
| ||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixSn!pe
| |||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixJohn McCue
| ||+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenixJohn McCue
| |||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyAnton Shepelev
| ||`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyDan Purgert
| |+* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
| |`* Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
| `- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyJulieta Shem
`- Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-onlyMarco Moock

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Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<20230907174034.684828e3d925b9af53723826@g{oogle}mail.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=2922&group=comp.misc#2922

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 17:40:34 +0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Message-ID: <20230907174034.684828e3d925b9af53723826@g{oogle}mail.com>
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Thu, 7 Sep 2023 14:40 UTC

John McCue:

> Replying to myself, Dan Purgert and Anton Shepelev had a
> better method of filtering Google Groups by using one of
> these:
> Message-ID: .*googlegroups.*$
> User-Agent: G2/.*$

Beware that either one will work, do not use both.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<uggrkn$hum$1@panix2.panix.com>

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: 15 Oct 2023 14:06:15 -0000
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
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Message-ID: <uggrkn$hum$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net> <ucqfgs$3c3pf$1@dont-email.me> <ucqivb$3cgh9$6@dont-email.me> <slrnuf1lu4.f45.dan@djph.net>
Injection-Info: reader2.panix.com; posting-host="panix2.panix.com:166.84.1.2";
logging-data="28550"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com"
 by: Scott Dorsey - Sun, 15 Oct 2023 14:06 UTC

In article <slrnuf1lu4.f45.dan@djph.net>, Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>On 2023-08-31, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 31.08.2023 um 09:35:39 Uhr schrieb The Real Bev:
>>
>>> On 8/31/23 7:38 AM, rdh wrote:
>>> > On 8/30/23 17:47, Retrograde wrote:
>>> >> Most young people will be turned off that it involves text, not
>>> >> images. That's fine with me. They can gather elsewhere.
>>> >
>>> > The lack of moderation is probably more of a turnoff for younger
>>> > folks. A lot of them just don't have a tolerance for spam.
>>>
>>> I rarely see spam;
>>
>> There are groups like comp.lang.c that are currently flooded with spam.
>
>If your client's killfiles work with regex ... "Message-ID: .*googlegroups.*$"
>
>Yeah, it murders anything coming in from google groups, which you might
>not want to do.

In the case of the current spam to comp.lang.c, just killfiling anything
with "UTF-8" in the subject line will clear it all up instantly.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<uggrn8$h4n$1@panix2.panix.com>

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: 15 Oct 2023 14:07:36 -0000
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
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Injection-Info: reader2.panix.com; posting-host="panix2.panix.com:166.84.1.2";
logging-data="5757"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com"
 by: Scott Dorsey - Sun, 15 Oct 2023 14:07 UTC

In article <20230831222655.3051bef263af8dda68ae847f@gmail.moc>,
Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> wrote:
>Marco Moock:
>
>> There are groups like comp.lang.c that are currently
>> flooded with spam.
>
>Yeah, sometimes I would log into Google, open a SPAM-ridden
>newsgroup and report messages from vairous spammers via
>their interface. Never seemed to help. Perhaps Google
>encourage SPAM in Usenet in order to kill it?

Google Groups is entirely unattended. Reporting anything to them is futile
because I don't think there is anyone there who reads any reports.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 13:28:39 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Mon, 16 Oct 2023 10:28 UTC

Scott Dorsey:

> Google Groups is entirely unattended. Reporting anything
> to them is futile because I don't think there is anyone
> there who reads any reports.

But Usenet servers are working on it, e.g. Ray:

> And I may add, that E-S is now processing the NoCeMs
> issued by i2pn2 and usenet.ovh to bundle efforts to fight
> the spam flood. Hopefully, Blueworldhosting will be
> joining soon, too.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: 16 Oct 2023 15:18:19 -0000
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
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 by: Scott Dorsey - Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:18 UTC

In article <20231016132839.8871c27458fe9fea041e31ae@g{oogle}mail.com>,
Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey:
>
>> Google Groups is entirely unattended. Reporting anything
>> to them is futile because I don't think there is anyone
>> there who reads any reports.
>
>But Usenet servers are working on it, e.g. Ray:
>
>> And I may add, that E-S is now processing the NoCeMs
>> issued by i2pn2 and usenet.ovh to bundle efforts to fight
>> the spam flood. Hopefully, Blueworldhosting will be
>> joining soon, too.

Yes. Cancelbots are what people do BECAUSE reporting them has been found to
be useless. NoCeMs are an improvement over cancelbots but use for the same
basic reason.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 18:53:02 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:53 UTC

Scott Dorsey:

> Cancelbots are what people do BECAUSE reporting them has
> been found to be useless. NoCeMs are an improvement over
> cancelbots but use for the same basic reason.

But they do it using automatic SPAM-filters.

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Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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From: jsh...@yaxenu.org (Julieta Shem)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 03:11 UTC

On 2023-08-30 19:47, Retrograde wrote:

> Most young people will be turned off that it involves text, not
> images. That's fine with me. They can gather elsewhere.

This subject always interests me: when I joined the Internet I quickly
became highly interested in everything that was old about it --- I
wanted to know its history, so I discovered things such as the USENET,
Gopher and other unpopular things (like VERONICA and WAIS).

I was fascinated by the Internet. I think when we get so excited like
that, we tend to dig all about it. Maybe the new generation doesn't see
much beauty in it.

Text-only is the feature. I'm writing this from Thunderbird, for
instance, and I have already made all icons disappear. :-)

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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From: jsh...@yaxenu.org (Julieta Shem)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 03:22 UTC

On 2023-08-31 11:38, rdh wrote:
> On 8/30/23 17:47, Retrograde wrote:
>> Most young people will be turned off that it involves text, not
>> images.  That's fine with me.  They can gather elsewhere.
>
> The lack of moderation is probably more of a turnoff for younger folks.
> A lot of them just don't have a tolerance for spam.

The spam is indeed a problem. Spam makes the group look so bad. But
take a look at Gmail. If you own a Gmail account, you know Google is
doing a very decent job at keeping spam out of your account. I think
the reason is obvious, right? A lot of money.

I still believe that the spam problem can be sufficiently solved in a
way that's much cheaper than what companies that run mail do.

For instance, I think spammers do behave different from a regular user.
They post more often. I think we just need to make posting expensive.

I wonder if there's been any experiments with the ideas in

http://www.hashcash.org/papers/announce.txt

If I understand the general idea, we could try it out with just clients.
When most clients implement the idea, then servers would know the
proportions of non-spammers using hashcash and could then implement it
themselves, stopping spammers even before they can reach clients.

Can anyone explain why hashcash would or would not suffice?

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Newsgroups: comp.misc
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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 03:25 UTC

On 2023-09-06 14:41, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
>> That's a pretty bad take, my guy. Have you ever talked to a Gen Z
>> person? Most of them I've met are fine with free speech, they just want
>> people held accountable for hate speech.
>
> "Hate speech" restrictions are unconstitutional. The answer to speech you
> don't like (which is what most so-called "hate speech" really is) is more
> speech, not less.
>

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 03:36 UTC

Forgive me for the last ``empty'' message. I'm trying out Thunderbird
but I'm coming from the GNU EMACS's Gnus. In Gnus, I press C-RET when I
want to reply to a certain passage of the OP, while in Thunderbird C-RET
sends the message out --- I checked ``don't show this warning to me
again''.

On 2023-09-06 14:41, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
>> That's a pretty bad take, my guy. Have you ever talked to a Gen Z
>> person? Most of them I've met are fine with free speech, they just want
>> people held accountable for hate speech.
>
> "Hate speech" restrictions are unconstitutional.

In the US? There are countries in which speech is unrestricted except
for anonymity, which is interesting. The legislator's provision is to
keep people accountable for what they say, which is also interesting.

> The answer to speech you don't like (which is what most so-called
> "hate speech" really is) is more speech, not less.

Good point. In my experience talking to people, though, I see many lay
people do think that speech should be somewhat restricted. They think
someone like them should stop people who don't behave very well. These
are lay people. They don't see the implications of their attempts at
designing such a system.

So, anyway, I think the USENET should not be a place for lay or young or
regular people. It should be the place for the type of people who
created it and populated it --- before eternal September, say, lol.

I'm pretty happy with services such as eternal-september.org. If we
come up with a certain smart strategy for spam, for example, I will
very likely become a member of the network myself: I think it is a true
treasure.

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 03:44 UTC

On 2023-08-31 13:35, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 8/31/23 7:38 AM, rdh wrote:
>> On 8/30/23 17:47, Retrograde wrote:
>>> Most young people will be turned off that it involves text, not
>>> images. That's fine with me. They can gather elsewhere.
>>
>> The lack of moderation is probably more of a turnoff for younger folks.
>> A lot of them just don't have a tolerance for spam.
>
> I rarely see spam;

In groups such as this one? That's true for me too, but there's spam in
so many other groups.

> the real problem is the people who seem to like arguing with other
> posters about character flaws and incorrect 'facts'. I hate seeing
> threads where that's obviously what happened and which are the vast
> majority of the day's posts.

That's really annoying indeed, but I think that's not stoppable. What I
think that is possible is to just discourage that kind of behavior. For
instance, these people seem to be high-volume posters. (Is that true?)
I think that if we can distinguish high-volume posters from low-volume
ones, we might have a pretty decent strategy. I don't know.

> I'm tough. I check the groups I began subscribing to back in the 90s
> every day, but it's really depressing.

It is.

> Many posters (some of whom I have actually met in RL as a result of
> usenet) have migrated to Cursed Facebook, but the change is
> distressing. Far fewer discussions, just pronouncements; FB doesn't
> make discussion easy. My FB 'friends' are mostly people I "knew" from
> usenet and their RL or net friends.

The medium used for a conversation deeply affects it. There's no chance
I'd use any of these other things.

> The kids don't know what they missed.

That's what's so sad --- they literally don't know. They're very
clueless. (In this thread, I read a post by someone who claimed to be a
20-year old. That was so nice to see.) They don't seem to be much of
the researching kind. But maybe this has always been the case? We
notice now that now because everyone is on the Internet, so we now see
the proportions. (But I'm only speculating. I've no idea.)

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 03:46 UTC

On 2023-08-31 14:34, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 31.08.2023 um 09:35:39 Uhr schrieb The Real Bev:
>
>> On 8/31/23 7:38 AM, rdh wrote:
>>> On 8/30/23 17:47, Retrograde wrote:
>>>> Most young people will be turned off that it involves text, not
>>>> images. That's fine with me. They can gather elsewhere.
>>>
>>> The lack of moderation is probably more of a turnoff for younger
>>> folks. A lot of them just don't have a tolerance for spam.
>>
>> I rarely see spam;
>
> There are groups like comp.lang.c that are currently flooded with spam.

Indeed. This group was so great in the first decade.

> I don't have FB, I have canceled my WhatApp account, people have to
> contact me by email.

Same here, except that I never had any of these accounts. To me it has
always been certain --- I could never agree with or enjoy such services.

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 03:57 UTC

On 2023-08-31 17:44, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On 2023-08-31, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Dan Purgert:
>>
>>> If your client's killfiles work with regex ...
>>> "Message-ID: .*googlegroups.*$"
>>
>> See also:
>>
>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html
>>
>> I think I should prefer:
>>
>> User-Agent: G2/.*$
>
> Same thing ultimately :)

If we killfile such clients, do we get rid of a considerable amount of
problems? I wonder if anyone has statistics? I'm looking at
comp.lang.lisp right now and it does seem that the problems either from
G2 or ForteAgent. A quick look at sci.math reveals the same. But what
do we make of sci.logic, say? That seems to be a more interesting case.
Anyway, I'm going to killfile all G2 altogether and see how it looks.

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 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 04:02 UTC

On 2023-08-31 19:53, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 8/31/23 2:23 PM, Sn!pe wrote:
>
>> IMO Google's real motive is to kill Usenet because they can't monetise
>> advertising on it.  It has always this way ever since they set up their
>> ersatz "Google Groups" and made a gateway into real Usenet.
>> Great damage was done done to Usenet resources when Google borged
>> DejaNews and ruined that very valuable, 99% complete, and easily
>> searched Usenet archive.
>
> I really had hope when google took it over that it would eventually be
> searchable back to Day 1.  Big disappointment.  I finally found my first
> post in 1994, but it wasn't easy and I'm not sure I could do it again.

Big disappointment.

>> In my view there is not now and never has been much of value contributed
>> to Usenet by Google.
>
> Nothing at all.

Nothing at all. Why don't USENET administrators deny relaying to
Google? Perhaps because at least one of them doesn't agree with that?
Perhaps because Google pays someone to get the messages? Because, look,
if I were an NNTP administrator, I would not let Google download
anything from me. :-)

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<J0Q1dguyiqjWUSKI5@bongo-ra.co>

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From: spi...@gmail.com (Spiros Bousbouras)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 07:59:34 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <J0Q1dguyiqjWUSKI5@bongo-ra.co>
References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net> <1qgasjh.q42hm04jvgp2N%snipeco.2@gmail.com> <20230830184746.0f7463226faaa289c37b4a4e@amongus.com>
<LB1IM.111048$VPEa.37115@fx33.iad> <ucqfgs$3c3pf$1@dont-email.me> <ucqivb$3cgh9$6@dont-email.me>
<slrnuf1lu4.f45.dan@djph.net> <20230831222430.feb96f8491a17eeb71691e34@gmail.moc> <slrnuf1v0h.f45.dan@djph.net>
<ukgubp$2nl2u$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 07:59:34 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="bd28fbdab41e7e4e1c8e239509a8a42f";
logging-data="2929354"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18TIah7Fgr2a0BSkevSmgXB"
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In-Reply-To: <ukgubp$2nl2u$1@dont-email.me>
X-Server-Commands: nowebcancel
X-Organisation: Weyland-Yutani
 by: Spiros Bousbouras - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 07:59 UTC

On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 00:57:41 -0300
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
> On 2023-08-31 17:44, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On 2023-08-31, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> >> Dan Purgert:
> >>
> >>> If your client's killfiles work with regex ...
> >>> "Message-ID: .*googlegroups.*$"
> >>
> >> See also:
> >>
> >> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html
> >>
> >> I think I should prefer:
> >>
> >> User-Agent: G2/.*$
> >
> > Same thing ultimately :)
>
> If we killfile such clients, do we get rid of a considerable amount of
> problems? I wonder if anyone has statistics?

I assume the question is what percentage of spam comes from googlegroups .
Not exactly this but see <ui2nsq$aob$2$arnold@news.chmurka.net> and some
subsequent posts in that thread. For statistics , you're better off asking
on news.admin.net-abuse.usenet .

> I'm looking at comp.lang.lisp right now and it does seem that the problems
> either from G2 or ForteAgent.

I don't see any spam on comp.lang.lisp coming from ForteAgent .Can you
give a Message-ID ?

> A quick look at sci.math reveals the same. But what
> do we make of sci.logic, say? That seems to be a more interesting case.

I see very little spam on sci.logic .

> Anyway, I'm going to killfile all G2 altogether and see how it looks.

--
vlaho.ninja/menu

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<lyenNmnpkEOA1tbA7@bongo-ra.co>

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From: spi...@gmail.com (Spiros Bousbouras)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:09:01 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: To protect and to server
Message-ID: <lyenNmnpkEOA1tbA7@bongo-ra.co>
References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net> <1qgasjh.q42hm04jvgp2N%snipeco.2@gmail.com> <20230830184746.0f7463226faaa289c37b4a4e@amongus.com>
<LB1IM.111048$VPEa.37115@fx33.iad> <ucqfgs$3c3pf$1@dont-email.me> <ucqivb$3cgh9$6@dont-email.me>
<20230831222655.3051bef263af8dda68ae847f@gmail.moc> <ucqq9i$3dma4$5@dont-email.me> <1qgclj6.1vhh3el11lyipwN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
<ucr5l5$3fcgt$1@dont-email.me> <ukgulc$2nl2u$2@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:09:01 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: paganini.bofh.team; logging-data="655879"; posting-host="9H7U5kayiTdk7VIdYU44Rw.user.paganini.bofh.team"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@bofh.team"; posting-account="9dIQLXBM7WM9KzA+yjdR4A";
Cancel-Lock: sha256:tNFoJ2m95/yBFkRE8QDMKjKS85VVdvaNWU5EnWXe0Dw=
X-Server-Commands: nowebcancel
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.3
X-Organisation: Weyland-Yutani
 by: Spiros Bousbouras - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:09 UTC

On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 01:02:51 -0300
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
> Nothing at all. Why don't USENET administrators deny relaying to
> Google? Perhaps because at least one of them doesn't agree with that?
> Perhaps because Google pays someone to get the messages? Because, look,

Some newsservers do filter all googlegroups posts. Others don't because
enough legitimate posters post from googlegroups .This has been pointed out
both on this group and on news.admin.net-abuse.usenet .For some examples see
<U=mJ1mzfTVpugrvzU@bongo-ra.co> and <ldovFPw0HOLpdAi2e@bongo-ra.co> .

> if I were an NNTP administrator, I would not let Google download
> anything from me. :-)

The issue related to spam is whether to propagate messages injected through
googlegroups , not whether to feed to googlegroups messages injected from
a different server.

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<87a5qrsl7i.fsf@tilde.institute>

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From: yet...@tilde.institute (yeti)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2023 09:13:05 +0000
Organization: Democratic Order of Pirates International (DOPI)
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <87a5qrsl7i.fsf@tilde.institute>
References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net>
<1qgasjh.q42hm04jvgp2N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
<20230830184746.0f7463226faaa289c37b4a4e@amongus.com>
<LB1IM.111048$VPEa.37115@fx33.iad> <ucqfgs$3c3pf$1@dont-email.me>
<ucqivb$3cgh9$6@dont-email.me> <ukgtnk$2ngk5$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d67508ebc28808e9150b2538c43642eb";
logging-data="2952135"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+r60YQeo1Trq8l1GAwF9ag"
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:89rx9G/5kKMGeqRiR06OwqK5Nxc=
sha1:TnJ4S28kmfUBuAme7ybE3oNGO60=
X-Face: ]_G&_b@O$RF(L7zT;DQ3-VU}c"F/_Mgy(4^P1,Tt^#0Cq+\qM&-h\&Z.3UuiwV")n~b;26e
5-s.cF/5tMdha-:]4eBHC9vBXnz4_aNe@d4oijVyix?>pC=tzuQhoD2A8P02+\xO4gNfRBE
`B<kE3T-Gps_d0_6`+0W3E9{D
 by: yeti - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 09:13 UTC

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

> Same here, except that I never had any of these accounts. To me it
> has always been certain --- I could never agree with or enjoy such
> services.

I'm not "social" enough for those shiny blingbling services that are
more like a catwalk because I care more for the contents than the
persons behind the (I hope:) facts and ideas to read.

Newsreaders have learned over decades to keep you focused and to kill
spam. Social nets live from keeping you busy digging through all their
trash. Totally different concepts and missions.

New Fedistan (Diaspora, Gnusocial, Mastodon, ...) just reimplements that
in a distributed way.

Following topics by tags only halfway works in Mastodon and its
neighbours and they even federate with systems not capable of using tags
at all. I refuse to follow people and following tags doesn't work as
replacement for (news-)groups. A mess!

I think the original Fediverse (SMTP & NNTP) should just be turned into
a more P2Pish way. Maybe even mail could be turned into a single user
newsgroup read-only for the owner? We should have the servers in our
own hands bypassing even DNS servers by using I2C, Tor or similar
transports.

We need a net in our own hands and for a long while this will not be
possible with other transports than tunnelling though the internet.
When this gets lots of users in a densely populated area, wireless meshs
may take over the local connections, but those island need to be
connected too.

--
p>iS 00W)Z YQx),3ZS=D0x6#]7y*4D^Dk1te<?h:3C
mai1LW-pf-Y a.R$m;1@[ap3
K?w,))yDO*|*u#
R]6?guHp(S;gKhtaUCq@(sjv/iTe(mM(ciUs4=(Zl+K,T>q NO CARRIER

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<wwvfs0jh8u4.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2023 10:35:47 +0000
Organization: terraraq NNTP server
Message-ID: <wwvfs0jh8u4.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net>
<1qgasjh.q42hm04jvgp2N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
<20230830184746.0f7463226faaa289c37b4a4e@amongus.com>
<LB1IM.111048$VPEa.37115@fx33.iad> <ukgsa3$2ndu0$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: innmantic.terraraq.uk; posting-host="tunnel.sfere.anjou.terraraq.org.uk:172.17.207.6";
logging-data="74212"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@innmantic.terraraq.uk"
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:jh7KV3S5zTzYK9f0KatMAQqp+6I=
X-Face: h[Hh-7npe<<b4/eW[]sat,I3O`t8A`(ej.H!F4\8|;ih)`7{@:A~/j1}gTt4e7-n*F?.Rl^
F<\{jehn7.KrO{!7=:(@J~]<.[{>v9!1<qZY,{EJxg6?Er4Y7Ng2\Ft>Z&W?r\c.!4DXH5PWpga"ha
+r0NzP?vnz:e/knOY)PI-
X-Boydie: NO
 by: Richard Kettlewell - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 10:35 UTC

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:
> For instance, I think spammers do behave different from a regular
> user. They post more often. I think we just need to make posting
> expensive.
>
> I wonder if there's been any experiments with the ideas in
>
> http://www.hashcash.org/papers/announce.txt
>
> If I understand the general idea, we could try it out with just
> clients. When most clients implement the idea, then servers would
> know the proportions of non-spammers using hashcash and could then
> implement it themselves, stopping spammers even before they can reach
> clients.
>
> Can anyone explain why hashcash would or would not suffice?

There are a couple of obstacles:

- The change would depend on all posting endpoints being upgraded to
support a proof of work scheme, and experience shows this won’t
happen. (There are still clients around which don’t support 1990s tech
like Unicode.)

- Spammers habitually use stolen resources, so aren’t subject to the
economic constraints of legitimate users.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<87h6kzxrjm.fsf@yaxenu.org>

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From: jsh...@yaxenu.org (Julieta Shem)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2023 11:57:17 -0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <87h6kzxrjm.fsf@yaxenu.org>
References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net>
<1qgasjh.q42hm04jvgp2N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
<20230830184746.0f7463226faaa289c37b4a4e@amongus.com>
<LB1IM.111048$VPEa.37115@fx33.iad> <ucqfgs$3c3pf$1@dont-email.me>
<ucqivb$3cgh9$6@dont-email.me> <slrnuf1lu4.f45.dan@djph.net>
<20230831222430.feb96f8491a17eeb71691e34@gmail.moc>
<slrnuf1v0h.f45.dan@djph.net> <ukgubp$2nl2u$1@dont-email.me>
<J0Q1dguyiqjWUSKI5@bongo-ra.co>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="50b2ef73d43a78bffc9a5c449de2ffb9";
logging-data="3042603"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18gzGIZ9it14m4dUcEvdJDjzmV7DwZxEvM="
Cancel-Lock: sha1:bV9fRN1ehuUEoWb3a+h/6qb7UpY=
sha1:eJqMBDpvDKklMit2JGSZdJ1qk0E=
 by: Julieta Shem - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 14:57 UTC

Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 00:57:41 -0300
> Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>> On 2023-08-31 17:44, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> > On 2023-08-31, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> >> Dan Purgert:
>> >>
>> >>> If your client's killfiles work with regex ...
>> >>> "Message-ID: .*googlegroups.*$"
>> >>
>> >> See also:
>> >>
>> >> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html
>> >>
>> >> I think I should prefer:
>> >>
>> >> User-Agent: G2/.*$
>> >
>> > Same thing ultimately :)
>>
>> If we killfile such clients, do we get rid of a considerable amount of
>> problems? I wonder if anyone has statistics?
>
> I assume the question is what percentage of spam comes from googlegroups .

That works.

> Not exactly this but see <ui2nsq$aob$2$arnold@news.chmurka.net> and
> some subsequent posts in that thread. For statistics , you're better
> off asking on news.admin.net-abuse.usenet .

Thanks. Let me reprint those numbers here. So, for November,
comp.lang.python received 19 posts from Google Groups.

[news@kvm ~]$ tdx-util -o -n chmurka.spam.comp.thai | grep 'Nov 2023' | awk '{print $2}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -gr
50656 [comp.cad.cadence]
5517 [comp.ai.neural-nets]
4694 [comp.text.tex]
2608 [comp.theory]
813 [comp.databases]
794 [comp.protocols.time.ntp]
575 [comp.programming.threads]
286 [comp.lang.xharbour]
121 [comp.os.linux.misc]
99 [comp.lang.clipper.visual-objects]
33 [comp.lang.cobol]
25 [comp.lang.forth]
25 [comp.dcom.sys.cisco]
19 [comp.lang.python]
15 [comp.lang.verilog]
6 [comp.sys.acorn.misc]
5 [comp.software.testing]
5 [comp.security.ssh]
5 [comp.os.msdos.djgpp]
4 [comp.lang.fortran]
3 [comp.os.vms]
2 [comp.protocols.tcp-ip]
2 [comp.protocols.kerberos]
2 [comp.editors]
1 [comp.text.pdf]
1 [comp.protocols.tcp-ip.domains]
1 [comp.protocols.nfs]
1 [comp.protocols.dicom]
1 [comp.mobile.android]
1 [comp.mail.sendmail]
1 [comp.lang.c++]
1 [comp.arch.embedded]

>> I'm looking at comp.lang.lisp right now and it does seem that the problems
>> either from G2 or ForteAgent.
>
> I don't see any spam on comp.lang.lisp coming from ForteAgent .Can you
> give a Message-ID ?

That's a good question now because I wonder how I can see all the
killfiled posts in Gnus. I wanted them to disappear and they did. Lol.
(Found them by saying ``/ O'' to the summary buffer.)

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Message-ID: <n98nmil844pckn6odmelustau3n29rc7f7@4ax.com>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 trialware
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Looks like a single one, but it's from yesterday, so maybe you just had
not received that one yet.

>> A quick look at sci.math reveals the same. But what
>> do we make of sci.logic, say? That seems to be a more interesting case.
>
> I see very little spam on sci.logic .

There's isn't precisely spam. The phenomenon there is different. See
for instance the thread that begins with <ujgjmu$frm2$1@dont-email.me>.

>> Anyway, I'm going to killfile all G2 altogether and see how it looks.

It's working wonders, actually. I'm quite impressed. Thanks very much
all of you here for giving them the survival theorems.

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<ukisae$30te6$4@dont-email.me>

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From: no...@thanks.net (candycanearter07)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 14:45:42 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <ukisae$30te6$4@dont-email.me>
References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net>
<1qgasjh.q42hm04jvgp2N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
<20230830184746.0f7463226faaa289c37b4a4e@amongus.com>
<LB1IM.111048$VPEa.37115@fx33.iad> <ucqfgs$3c3pf$1@dont-email.me>
<ucqivb$3cgh9$6@dont-email.me> <ukgtnk$2ngk5$3@dont-email.me>
<87a5qrsl7i.fsf@tilde.institute>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="b1ad6d2ab00ec4ce26777575f1179d5a";
logging-data="3175878"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19YiFhyW/H05hT5GLHdl5ECPube5hBVVYqDQBYaSig0ng=="
User-Agent: Betterbird (Linux)
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Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <87a5qrsl7i.fsf@tilde.institute>
 by: candycanearter07 - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 20:45 UTC

On 12/3/23 03:13, yeti wrote:
> Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:
>
>> Same here, except that I never had any of these accounts. To me it
>> has always been certain --- I could never agree with or enjoy such
>> services.
>
> I'm not "social" enough for those shiny blingbling services that are
> more like a catwalk because I care more for the contents than the
> persons behind the (I hope:) facts and ideas to read.
>
> Newsreaders have learned over decades to keep you focused and to kill
> spam. Social nets live from keeping you busy digging through all their
> trash. Totally different concepts and missions.
>
> New Fedistan (Diaspora, Gnusocial, Mastodon, ...) just reimplements that
> in a distributed way.
>
> Following topics by tags only halfway works in Mastodon and its
> neighbours and they even federate with systems not capable of using tags
> at all. I refuse to follow people and following tags doesn't work as
> replacement for (news-)groups. A mess!
>
> I think the original Fediverse (SMTP & NNTP) should just be turned into
> a more P2Pish way. Maybe even mail could be turned into a single user
> newsgroup read-only for the owner? We should have the servers in our
> own hands bypassing even DNS servers by using I2C, Tor or similar
> transports.

Agreed, Mastodon as it is is unfun.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<ukj21g$fmo$1@panix2.panix.com>

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: 3 Dec 2023 23:12:48 -0000
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
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Injection-Info: reader2.panix.com; posting-host="panix2.panix.com:166.84.1.2";
logging-data="502"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com"
 by: Scott Dorsey - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 23:12 UTC

In article <ukgsfq$2ndu0$2@dont-email.me>,
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>On 2023-09-06 14:41, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
>> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
>>> That's a pretty bad take, my guy. Have you ever talked to a Gen Z
>>> person? Most of them I've met are fine with free speech, they just want
>>> people held accountable for hate speech.
>>
>> "Hate speech" restrictions are unconstitutional. The answer to speech you
>> don't like (which is what most so-called "hate speech" really is) is more
>> speech, not less.

Depends what country you're in. There are some countries where Usenet is
carried where hate speech restrictions are in their constitution.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<ukj29j$8fo$1@panix2.panix.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=3062&group=comp.misc#3062

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: 3 Dec 2023 23:17:07 -0000
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
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References: <kl9p85F590fU1@mid.individual.net> <20230831222430.feb96f8491a17eeb71691e34@gmail.moc> <slrnuf1v0h.f45.dan@djph.net> <ukgubp$2nl2u$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: reader2.panix.com; posting-host="panix2.panix.com:166.84.1.2";
logging-data="5267"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com"
 by: Scott Dorsey - Sun, 3 Dec 2023 23:17 UTC

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
>
>If we killfile such clients, do we get rid of a considerable amount of
>problems? I wonder if anyone has statistics? I'm looking at
>comp.lang.lisp right now and it does seem that the problems either from
>G2 or ForteAgent. A quick look at sci.math reveals the same. But what
>do we make of sci.logic, say? That seems to be a more interesting case.
>Anyway, I'm going to killfile all G2 altogether and see how it looks.

All of the spam, from pretty much the beginning, has come from Google
and dropping G2 postings will eliminate them. In some groups there will
be some false positives, in other groups there will not be. I suspect
that in comp.lang.lisp there will be fewer than in sci.math.

Now, that said, the current spam flood is, unsurprisingly, all being
injected through Google Groups and admins of the larger sites are
working on more specific ways to cancel the messages before they get
to you. I don't expect the current flood to last that much longer but
in the meantime ask your news admin if he is accepting nocems. This will
dramatically improve your newsreading experience in most groups.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<slrnumr995.v1f.dan@djph.net>

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From: dan...@djph.net (Dan Purgert)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 10:06:53 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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<20230830184746.0f7463226faaa289c37b4a4e@amongus.com>
<LB1IM.111048$VPEa.37115@fx33.iad> <ucqfgs$3c3pf$1@dont-email.me>
<ukgtjj$2ngk5$2@dont-email.me>
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logging-data="3549999"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+7flC2UjRMcncKYYlLZuKP0ETOyNaFPSg="
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 by: Dan Purgert - Mon, 4 Dec 2023 10:06 UTC

On 2023-12-03, Julieta Shem wrote:
> On 2023-08-31 13:35, The Real Bev wrote:
> > On 8/31/23 7:38 AM, rdh wrote:
> >> On 8/30/23 17:47, Retrograde wrote:
> >>> Most young people will be turned off that it involves text, not
> >>> images. That's fine with me. They can gather elsewhere.
> >>
> >> The lack of moderation is probably more of a turnoff for younger folks.
> >> A lot of them just don't have a tolerance for spam.
> >
> > I rarely see spam;
>
> In groups such as this one? That's true for me too, but there's spam in
> so many other groups.

Start with kill-filing googlegroups, spam goes away :)

Indeed it is heavy-handed; but GG is a cesspit.

> > The kids don't know what they missed.
>
> That's what's so sad --- they literally don't know. They're very
> clueless. (In this thread, I read a post by someone who claimed to be a
> 20-year old. That was so nice to see.) They don't seem to be much of

20-somethings would generally know of reddit, etc. because they "grew up
with it" -- a lot like how 30/40-somethings "grew up with" AIM rather
than IRC.

IOW, they just don'w know there's anything "better", until/unless being
exposed to these things in university. (s'where I learned of Usenet
still existing outside of the "binary groups")

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<slrnumraub.v1f.dan@djph.net>

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From: dan...@djph.net (Dan Purgert)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only
phoenix
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 10:35:15 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dan Purgert - Mon, 4 Dec 2023 10:35 UTC

On 2023-12-03, yeti wrote:
> [...]
> I think the original Fediverse (SMTP & NNTP) should just be turned into
> a more P2Pish way. Maybe even mail could be turned into a single user
> newsgroup read-only for the owner? We should have the servers in our
> own hands bypassing even DNS servers by using I2C, Tor or similar
> transports.

Not really sure where you're trying to go with this one. What really is
wrong with "The Internet" (incl DNS, etc.) in the general sense?

>
> We need a net in our own hands and for a long while this will not be
> possible with other transports than tunnelling though the internet.

Other transports like what? "The Internet" is just the global network
of all other autonomous systems (so "some other transport" just becomes
"part of The Internet" once it can be accessed...)

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix

<qLkqk2tMQoTJE9oVD@bongo-ra.co>

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From: spi...@gmail.com (Spiros Bousbouras)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: USENET, the OG social network, rises again like a text-only phoenix
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 15:57:25 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Spiros Bousbouras - Mon, 4 Dec 2023 15:57 UTC

On Sun, 03 Dec 2023 11:57:17 -0300
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
> Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 00:57:41 -0300
> > Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
> > I don't see any spam on comp.lang.lisp coming from ForteAgent .Can you
> > give a Message-ID ?
>
> That's a good question now because I wonder how I can see all the
> killfiled posts in Gnus. I wanted them to disappear and they did. Lol.
> (Found them by saying ``/ O'' to the summary buffer.)
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> Message-ID: <n98nmil844pckn6odmelustau3n29rc7f7@4ax.com>
> User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 trialware
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Looks like a single one, but it's from yesterday, so maybe you just had
> not received that one yet.

I do most of my reading through news.i2pn2.org which filters most of the
spam including this one. I got it through a different server. I'm actually
saving it for the novelty value !

> >> A quick look at sci.math reveals the same. But what
> >> do we make of sci.logic, say? That seems to be a more interesting case.
> >
> > I see very little spam on sci.logic .
>
> There's isn't precisely spam. The phenomenon there is different. See
> for instance the thread that begins with <ujgjmu$frm2$1@dont-email.me>.

That's on topic ; low quality perhaps but on topic. The fact that people
can post even low quality stuff and everyone can decide for themselves
what to read and what not to read , I consider one of the strengths of
usenet.

> >> Anyway, I'm going to killfile all G2 altogether and see how it looks.
>
> It's working wonders, actually. I'm quite impressed. Thanks very much
> all of you here for giving them the survival theorems.

Keep in mind that some legitimate posters post on comp.lang.lisp through
googlegroups .Even a member of the Common Lisp standard committee did that
but he hasn't posted in a long time.

--
vlaho.ninja/menu

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