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computers / comp.dcom.telecom / Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real

SubjectAuthor
* [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets RealFred Atkinson
+* Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets RealBill Horne
|+- Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets RealGlowingBlueMist
|`- Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets RealMichael Trew
+- Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets RealDavid
`- Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets RealJulian Thomas

1
[telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real

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From: fatkinso...@and-this-too.mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real
Date: 14 Mar 2022 22:58:41 -0700
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 by: Fred Atkinson - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 05:58 UTC

Networks are aging, parts are unavailable, and technicians are
retiring. If your organization uses copper-based services, make
a plan to eliminate them quickly.

https://www.nojitter.com/consultant-perspectives/decommissioning-copper-gets-real

Fred

Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real

<20220315145949.GA18998@telecom.csail.mit.edu>

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From: malQRMas...@gmail.com (Bill Horne)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 14:59:49 +0000
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 by: Bill Horne - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 14:59 UTC

On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 10:58:41PM -0700, Fred Atkinson wrote:
>
> Networks are aging, parts are unavailable, and technicians are
> retiring. If your organization uses copper-based services, make
> a plan to eliminate them quickly.
>
> https://www.nojitter.com/consultant-perspectives/decommissioning-copper-gets-real

The "nojitter" article is a paen to the all-mighty "MOTHER BELL" and
her infinite wisdom: Ms. Munro's breathless boosterism includes these
paragraphs:

Carriers have quietly tried to eliminate POTS lines, DSL, primary
rate interfaces (PRIs), and private data services delivered over
this old copper cable network. Carriers have been slowly
attempting to discourage continued use of these services, by
increasing pricing, not renewing contracts, ending maintenance
and support, and requiring customers to move to VoIP (fiber)
based services.

The subtle approach changed recently when Verizon Business sent a
notice to all of its channel sales organizations that said all
customers with a current VZB POTS line must completely migrate to
a new product no later than April 30, 2022. Customers who don'dt
migrate will be subject to disconnection on or after April 30,
2022. Verizon Business operates in about a dozen states. Though
Verizon Business only mentions POTS lines, this announcement has
big implications for everyone.

First, the obvious: VoIP is not equal to fiber. Phone companies love
VoIP because it hides a multitude of sins, like the ongoing efforts to
shuffle all trunk lines on to the Internet, thus externalizing the
cost of maintaining them on to <anyone else>. The virtual-circuit,
switched-with-links-in-tandem paradigm is now passé. What nobody wants
to think about is the dramatic increases in fire and theft insurnce
costs which the business owners are soon to be hit with, since their
dedicted-pair phone lines are soon to be "as available" connections
which are neither "always on," nor reliable.

Second, the all-too-obvious: "Carriers" haven't done anything
"quietly." They have been trying, in ways both subtle and gross, to
rid themselve of their well-paid, hard-working, loyal, and, yes, aging
union workforce. It seems the old "Get in the truck" dedication and
"hard work is its own reward" tradition is no longer fashionable, at
least when the executives at the ilec's have to choose between their
million-dollar bonuses or loyalty to the men and women who made them
possible, and the union men who raised their familiess and paid their
mortgages with notions of hard work, best-in-the-world service, and
no-excuses "always on" service are soon to be museum displays.

Bill

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my email address to write to me directly)

Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real

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From: GlowingB...@blackhole.io (GlowingBlueMist)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real
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 by: GlowingBlueMist - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 22:46 UTC

On 3/15/2022 9:59 AM, Bill Horne wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 10:58:41PM -0700, Fred Atkinson wrote:
>>
>> Networks are aging, parts are unavailable, and technicians are
>> retiring. If your organization uses copper-based services, make
>> a plan to eliminate them quickly.
>>
>> https://www.nojitter.com/consultant-perspectives/decommissioning-copper-gets-real
>
> The "nojitter" article is a paen to the all-mighty "MOTHER BELL" and
> her infinite wisdom: Ms. Munro's breathless boosterism includes these
> paragraphs:
>
> Carriers have quietly tried to eliminate POTS lines, DSL, primary
> rate interfaces (PRIs), and private data services delivered over
> this old copper cable network. Carriers have been slowly
> attempting to discourage continued use of these services, by
> increasing pricing, not renewing contracts, ending maintenance
> and support, and requiring customers to move to VoIP (fiber)
> based services.
>
> The subtle approach changed recently when Verizon Business sent a
> notice to all of its channel sales organizations that said all
> customers with a current VZB POTS line must completely migrate to
> a new product no later than April 30, 2022. Customers who don'dt
> migrate will be subject to disconnection on or after April 30,
> 2022. Verizon Business operates in about a dozen states. Though
> Verizon Business only mentions POTS lines, this announcement has
> big implications for everyone.
>
> First, the obvious: VoIP is not equal to fiber. Phone companies love
> VoIP because it hides a multitude of sins, like the ongoing efforts to
> shuffle all trunk lines on to the Internet, thus externalizing the
> cost of maintaining them on to <anyone else>. The virtual-circuit,
> switched-with-links-in-tandem paradigm is now passé. What nobody wants
> to think about is the dramatic increases in fire and theft insurnce
> costs which the business owners are soon to be hit with, since their
> dedicted-pair phone lines are soon to be "as available" connections
> which are neither "always on," nor reliable.
>
> Second, the all-too-obvious: "Carriers" haven't done anything
> "quietly." They have been trying, in ways both subtle and gross, to
> rid themselve of their well-paid, hard-working, loyal, and, yes, aging
> union workforce. It seems the old "Get in the truck" dedication and
> "hard work is its own reward" tradition is no longer fashionable, at
> least when the executives at the ilec's have to choose between their
> million-dollar bonuses or loyalty to the men and women who made them
> possible, and the union men who raised their familiess and paid their
> mortgages with notions of hard work, best-in-the-world service, and
> no-excuses "always on" service are soon to be museum displays.
>
> Bill
>
>
In my area the the last two or more years the DSL and phone company have
been actively forcing their network into failure by removing the rain
tight covers off of any junction point when technicians make ANY repair
or installation. They throw away the actual cover and replace it with
an orange plastic bag and a zip tie or two. As the bags age and fall
apart they are not replaced. They are doing this on all above ground
connections.

From talking to the technicians (off the record) the goal is to make
things bad enough that they can go crying to the local authorities and
try to get them to pay for part or all of a fiber replacement of the
"bad" cables.

Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real

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From: wb8...@panix.com (David)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real
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 by: David - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 02:00 UTC

On 3/15/22 1:58 AM, Fred Atkinson wrote:

> Networks are aging, parts are unavailable, and technicians are
> retiring. If your organization uses copper-based services, make a
> plan to eliminate them quickly.

It's not just copper Outside Plant being chopped. It's what it feeds:
Line cards on ESS/DMS switches. At least for the 5E, the software
licenses cost the LEC MANY dollars per month. And with many ports no
longer used vs. cellular, it's a big hit.

If instead of POTS you have FTTH {"FIOS"} where it's now Just Bits, it's
far cheaper. I've been told that all FIOS phone bits in the extended DC
region are hauled to Reston VA where a few U's of rack space takes care
of them.

There are services that don't easily convert. One is fire alarms,
another elevator emergency phones. NFPA has approved cellular
replacements for fire circuits, with some requirements.

In theory, there is a "POTS Replacement" market for cellular boxes that
the existing elevator POTS phone plugs into directly. But I've found
actual LTE/5G hardware to purchase as plentiful as polar bears in the
Gobi desert; there are, however, hoards of companies wanting to rent you
a "service" every month.

Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real

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From: michael....@att.net (Michael Trew)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real
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 by: Michael Trew - Thu, 24 Mar 2022 05:11 UTC

On 3/15/2022 10:59, Bill Horne wrote:
>
> Carriers have quietly tried to eliminate POTS lines, DSL, primary
> rate interfaces (PRIs), and private data services delivered over
> this old copper cable network. Carriers have been slowly
> attempting to discourage continued use of these services, by
> increasing pricing, not renewing contracts, ending maintenance
> and support, and requiring customers to move to VoIP (fiber)
> based services.

Very true. I have a basic AT&T POTS line and ADSL service. Any time I
have to call the telco, they regularly put on a heavy sales pitch to
switch to U-Verse and VOIP. My answer is always a polite but firm "no".
I suspect it won't be long before they won't offer POTS and/or ADSL in
my region; they already won't sell the traditional DSL to new subscribers.

POTS is going up by about $1.5/month each year, presumably to push
subscribers off. It's now about $10/mo more than it cost me in 2015.
$41/mo after taxes/fees, no long distance, no features, unlimited local
calling. They no longer offer measured rate local calling in Ohio, or
I'd be subscribed to that.

Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real

<4AFCBC9C-CB76-42A5-A400-C867DD109747@icloud.com>

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From: jtnu...@icloud.com (Julian Thomas)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: Re: [telecom] August 2nd, 2022 - The Decommissioning of Copper Gets Real
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 by: Julian Thomas - Sun, 3 Apr 2022 17:14 UTC

I think that Frontier here in Rochester NY (successor to the late
lamented Rochester Tel) may have adopted a different method for
encouraging POTs subscribers to bail in addition to or instead of drip
drip drip rate increases. Residents in our neighborhood are having
periodic loss of service which seems to be coming from the CO. Seems
that they are eliminating equipment (line frames?) as people cancel
service and consolidating subscriber lines on the remaining
frames. Apparently this process frequently doesn't work correctly.

--
jt - jt@jt-mj.net

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you
commit atrocities. - Voltaire

1
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