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Marvelous! The super-user's going to boot me! What a finely tuned response to the situation!


devel / comp.theory / cia

SubjectAuthor
* ciaB.H.
`* ciaolcott
 `* ciaB.H.
  `* ciaolcott
   `* ciaB.H.
    +* ciaB.H.
    |`* ciaolcott
    | `* ciaMr Flibble
    |  `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |   `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    +* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |`* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    | `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |  `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |   +* cia [ philosophical materialism ]Richard Damon
    |    |   |`* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |   | `- cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |   `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |    `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |     `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |      `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |       `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |        `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |         `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |          `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |           +* cia [ philosophical materialism ]AndrĂ© G. Isaak
    |    |           |`* cia [ philosophical materialism ]AndrĂ© G. Isaak
    |    |           | +- cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |           | `- cia [ philosophical materialism ]Jeff Barnett
    |    |           `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |            `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |             `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |              `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |               `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |                `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |                 `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |                  `* cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |                   +* cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    |                   |`- cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    |    |                   `- cia [ philosophical materialism ]B.H.
    |    `- cia [ philosophical materialism ]olcott
    `- ciaolcott

Pages:12
cia

<71b9c886-6984-41b1-b5ac-d5a7a79cf50cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: cia
From: xlt....@gmail.com (B.H.)
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 by: B.H. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:34 UTC

0

No typos. Follow laws.

Re: cia

<SIudnbjINvMtOvz_nZ2dnUU7_8xh4p2d@giganews.com>

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:51 UTC

On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>
> 0
>
> No typos. Follow laws.

The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the FBI's job.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: cia

<62e63782-2923-4134-a3fd-2043cbeb7cfcn@googlegroups.com>

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 by: B.H. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:56 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >
> > 0
> >
> > No typos. Follow laws.
> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the FBI's job.
>
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists? It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.

-Philip

Re: cia

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 19:06 UTC

On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the FBI's job.
>>
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>
> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists? It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>
> -Philip

Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so they
simply leave that to the FBI.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: cia

<a54f9fd3-d197-4416-a916-a2dae0670dd7n@googlegroups.com>

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 by: B.H. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:34 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 0
> >>>
> >>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the FBI's job.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>
> >> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >
> > Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists? It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >
> > -Philip
> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so they
> simply leave that to the FBI.
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even in this outrageous set of circumstances.

I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.

-Philip

Re: cia

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 by: B.H. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:35 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> > On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> > >> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> 0
> > >>>
> > >>> No typos. Follow laws.
> > >> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the FBI's job..
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> > >>
> > >> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> > >> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> > >> Arthur Schopenhauer
> > >
> > > Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists? It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> > >
> > > -Philip
> > Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so they
> > simply leave that to the FBI.
> > --
> > Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >
> > "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> > Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> > Arthur Schopenhauer
> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>
> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>
> -Philip

(I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)

Re: cia

<i6ednYYwLs1WXPz_nZ2dnUU7_8xh4p2d@giganews.com>

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:42 UTC

On 4/21/2022 3:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 0
>>>>>
>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the FBI's job.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>
>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>
>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists? It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>
>>> -Philip
>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so they
>> simply leave that to the FBI.
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>
>
> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>
> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>
> -Philip

I don't know much about you besides what you say here.
You seem to have a reasonably well grounded view of most things.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: cia

<i6ednYEwLs3uX_z_nZ2dnUU7_8xh4p2d@giganews.com>

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:45 UTC

On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the FBI's job.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>
>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>
>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists? It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>
>>>> -Philip
>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so they
>>> simply leave that to the FBI.
>>> --
>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>
>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>
>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>
>> -Philip
>
>
> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>

I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip (such
as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: cia

<20220421215430.00003f4d@reddwarf.jmc.corp>

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From: flib...@reddwarf.jmc.corp (Mr Flibble)
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: cia
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 by: Mr Flibble - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:54 UTC

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:

> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> >>>>> FBI's job.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
> >>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> >>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
> >>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> >>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> >>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Philip
> >>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> >>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> >>> --
> >>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>
> >>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> >> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> >> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> >> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> >>
> >> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
> >>
> >> -Philip
> >
> >
> > (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> > heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>
> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.

Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism

/Flibble

Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

<DMadncH1Y9RSW_z_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:04 UTC

On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>
>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>
>>>> -Philip
>>>
>>>
>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>
>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>
> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>
> /Flibble
>

There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.

The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
different than it really is.

One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
philosophical materialism.

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

<224e0622-d148-4ab4-bb41-ceb57db83ff0n@googlegroups.com>

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 by: B.H. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:29 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> > olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> >>>>>>> FBI's job.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
> >>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> >>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
> >>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> >>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> >>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> >>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> >>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> >>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> >>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Philip
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> >>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
> >>
> >> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
> >> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> >> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
> >
> > Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> > also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
> > of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
> >
> > /Flibble
> >
> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>
> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
> different than it really is.
>
> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
> philosophical materialism.
>
> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.

That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.

There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.

I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?

-Philip White (philipjwhite@yahoo.com)

Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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Subject: Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]
From: xlt....@gmail.com (B.H.)
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 by: B.H. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:33 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> > On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > > On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> > > olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> > >>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> > >>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> 0
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> > >>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> > >>>>>>> FBI's job.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> > >>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> > >>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
> > >>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> > >>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
> > >>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> > >>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> > >>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -Philip
> > >>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> > >>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> > >>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> > >>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> > >>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> > >>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> > >>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> > >>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Philip
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> > >>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
> > >>
> > >> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
> > >> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> > >> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
> > >
> > > Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> > > also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
> > > of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
> > >
> > > /Flibble
> > >
> > There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
> > about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
> >
> > The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
> > are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
> > different than it really is.
> >
> > One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
> > after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
> > philosophical materialism.
> >
> > Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
> > the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
> > states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
> > --
> > Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >
> > "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> > Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> > Arthur Schopenhauer
> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>
> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>
> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>
> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>
> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)

By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.

-Philip

Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:58 UTC

On 4/21/2022 4:29 PM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>
>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>
>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>
>>> /Flibble
>>>
>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>>
>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>> different than it really is.
>>
>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>> philosophical materialism.
>>
>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>
>
> Oh, what is your proof that God exists?

The concept of God that actually exists converts all of Western religion
into a figure-of-speech.

> I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>
> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>
> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>
> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>
> -Philip White (philipjwhite@yahoo.com)
>

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:00 UTC

On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>
>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>
>>>> /Flibble
>>>>
>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>>>
>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>> different than it really is.
>>>
>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>
>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>> --
>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>
>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>
>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>>
>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>
>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>
>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>
>
> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>
> -Philip

I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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Subject: Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]
From: xlt....@gmail.com (B.H.)
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 by: B.H. - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:50 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> >>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> >>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
> >>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> >>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
> >>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> >>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> >>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> >>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> >>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> >>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> >>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> >>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
> >>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> >>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> >>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
> >>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
> >>>>
> >>>> /Flibble
> >>>>
> >>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
> >>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
> >>>
> >>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
> >>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
> >>> different than it really is.
> >>>
> >>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
> >>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
> >>> philosophical materialism.
> >>>
> >>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
> >>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
> >>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
> >>> --
> >>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>
> >>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
> >>
> >> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
> >>
> >> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
> >>
> >> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
> >>
> >> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
> >
> >
> > By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
> >
> > -Philip
> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.

Also, the idea that god is a figure of speech is not what Christians believe, at least not any that I have known. The argument for God insists that God is all-knowing and all-powerful--a real-life entity who exists in Heaven and influences human lives.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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 by: olcott - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:56 UTC

On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>
>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>>>> different than it really is.
>>>>>
>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>>>
>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>>>> --
>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>
>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>>>
>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>>>>
>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>>>
>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>>>
>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>>>
>>>
>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>>>
>>> -Philip
>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>
> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.


Click here to read the complete article
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 02:12 UTC

On 4/21/22 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular,
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the
>>>>>>> writings
>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very
>>>>>> strange
>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively
>>>>>> seeks it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that
>>>>>> humans
>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>>>>> different than it really is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality
>>>>>> until
>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there
>>>>> is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of
>>>>> nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any
>>>>> religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran,
>>>>> etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good
>>>>> enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen
>>>>> throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in
>>>>> the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer
>>>>> extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine;
>>>>> according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way
>>>>> will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel
>>>>> better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't
>>>>> believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful
>>>>> son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead
>>>>> of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>>>>
>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it
>>>>> wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example
>>>>> throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a
>>>>> god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than
>>>>> make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she
>>>>> exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see
>>>>> the existence of this deity clearly.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept
>>>>> people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has
>>>>> the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of
>>>>> possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a
>>>>> psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of
>>>>> scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to
>>>>> relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument
>>>>> that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages,
>>>>> but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why
>>>>> should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text
>>>>> just because lots of other people believe it and want to
>>>>> indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the
>>>> existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>>>>
>>>> -Philip
>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
>>> --
>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>
>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>
>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored
>> in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the
>> future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will
>> see in the future, perhaps the near future.  That has nothing to do
>> with any god.
>
> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
> physical reality as a verified fact.
>
> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
>
> This makes perfect sense when one realizes that reality is mind-made and
> has no independent existence of its own.
>


Click here to read the complete article
Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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Subject: Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]
From: xlt....@gmail.com (B.H.)
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 by: B.H. - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 11:50 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:56:41 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> >>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
> >>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> >>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
> >>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> >>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> >>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> >>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> >>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> >>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> >>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them..
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> >>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent..
> >>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> >>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> >>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
> >>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
> >>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
> >>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
> >>>>> different than it really is.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
> >>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
> >>>>> philosophical materialism.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
> >>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
> >>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
> >>>>
> >>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
> >>>>
> >>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
> >>>
> >>> -Philip
> >> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
> >> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
> >> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
> >> --
> >> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>
> >> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >
> > Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.
> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
> physical reality as a verified fact.
>
> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
>


Click here to read the complete article
Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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Subject: Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]
From: xlt....@gmail.com (B.H.)
Injection-Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 11:51:33 +0000
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 by: B.H. - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 11:51 UTC

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 10:12:04 PM UTC-4, richar...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 4/21/22 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
> > On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> >>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> >>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> >>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> >>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> >>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> >>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> >>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
> >>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> >>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> >>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the
> >>>>>>> writings
> >>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very
> >>>>>> strange
> >>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively
> >>>>>> seeks it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that
> >>>>>> humans
> >>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
> >>>>>> different than it really is.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality
> >>>>>> until
> >>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
> >>>>>> philosophical materialism.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter
> >>>>>> to be
> >>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
> >>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there
> >>>>> is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of
> >>>>> nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any
> >>>>> religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran,
> >>>>> etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good
> >>>>> enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen
> >>>>> throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in
> >>>>> the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer
> >>>>> extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine;
> >>>>> according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way
> >>>>> will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel
> >>>>> better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't
> >>>>> believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful
> >>>>> son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead
> >>>>> of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it
> >>>>> wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example
> >>>>> throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a
> >>>>> god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than
> >>>>> make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she
> >>>>> exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see
> >>>>> the existence of this deity clearly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept
> >>>>> people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has
> >>>>> the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of
> >>>>> possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a
> >>>>> psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of
> >>>>> scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to
> >>>>> relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument
> >>>>> that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages,
> >>>>> but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why
> >>>>> should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text
> >>>>> just because lots of other people believe it and want to
> >>>>> indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the
> >>>> existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Philip
> >>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
> >>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
> >>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
> >>> --
> >>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>
> >>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>
> >> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored
> >> in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the
> >> future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will
> >> see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do
> >> with any god.
> >
> > That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
> > any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
> > physical reality as a verified fact.
> >
> > It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
> > own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
> >
> > This makes perfect sense when one realizes that reality is mind-made and
> > has no independent existence of its own.
> >
> Then you don't believe in absolute Truth, so everything is relative?
>
> That explains your insanity, because if Truth is just mind-made then
> there actually IS no "reality" and nothing really exists.


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Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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 by: olcott - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:54 UTC

On 4/22/2022 6:50 AM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:56:41 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
>>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
>>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
>>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>>>>>> different than it really is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
>>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
>>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Philip
>>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
>>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
>>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
>>>> --
>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>
>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>
>>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.
>> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
>> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
>> physical reality as a verified fact.
>>
>> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
>> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
>>
>
> That is nothing surprising, and doesn't demonstrate the existence of any god.


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Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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 by: olcott - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:57 UTC

On 4/22/2022 6:51 AM, B.H. wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 10:12:04 PM UTC-4, richar...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 4/21/22 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the
>>>>>>>>> writings
>>>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very
>>>>>>>> strange
>>>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively
>>>>>>>> seeks it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that
>>>>>>>> humans
>>>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>>>>>>> different than it really is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality
>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter
>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there
>>>>>>> is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of
>>>>>>> nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any
>>>>>>> religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran,
>>>>>>> etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good
>>>>>>> enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen
>>>>>>> throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in
>>>>>>> the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer
>>>>>>> extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine;
>>>>>>> according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way
>>>>>>> will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel
>>>>>>> better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't
>>>>>>> believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful
>>>>>>> son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead
>>>>>>> of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it
>>>>>>> wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example
>>>>>>> throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a
>>>>>>> god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than
>>>>>>> make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she
>>>>>>> exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see
>>>>>>> the existence of this deity clearly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept
>>>>>>> people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has
>>>>>>> the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of
>>>>>>> possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a
>>>>>>> psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of
>>>>>>> scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to
>>>>>>> relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument
>>>>>>> that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages,
>>>>>>> but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why
>>>>>>> should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text
>>>>>>> just because lots of other people believe it and want to
>>>>>>> indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the
>>>>>> existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
>>>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
>>>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>
>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>
>>>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored
>>>> in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the
>>>> future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will
>>>> see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do
>>>> with any god.
>>>
>>> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
>>> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
>>> physical reality as a verified fact.
>>>
>>> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
>>> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
>>>
>>> This makes perfect sense when one realizes that reality is mind-made and
>>> has no independent existence of its own.
>>>
>> Then you don't believe in absolute Truth, so everything is relative?
>>
>> That explains your insanity, because if Truth is just mind-made then
>> there actually IS no "reality" and nothing really exists.
>
>
> I don't think he said that, I think he is arguing about the definition of reality, not asserting that truth is illusory.
>
> -Philip White (philipjwhite@yahoo.com)


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Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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Subject: Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]
From: xlt....@gmail.com (B.H.)
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 by: B.H. - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:46 UTC

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 4/22/2022 6:50 AM, B.H. wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:56:41 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> >>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> >>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> >>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> >>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> >>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> >>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
> >>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> >>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> >>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
> >>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
> >>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
> >>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
> >>>>>>> different than it really is.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
> >>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
> >>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
> >>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
> >>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
> >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Philip
> >>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
> >>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
> >>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>
> >>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>
> >>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.
> >> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
> >> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
> >> physical reality as a verified fact.
> >>
> >> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
> >> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived..
> >>
> >
> > That is nothing surprising, and doesn't demonstrate the existence of any god.
> So if you wish for a cup of coffee and suddenly a cup of coffee appears
> out of nowhere right in front of you this is not some kind of miracle?


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Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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 by: olcott - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:57 UTC

On 4/22/2022 10:46 AM, B.H. wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/22/2022 6:50 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:56:41 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
>>>>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
>>>>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
>>>>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>>>>>>>> different than it really is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
>>>>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>>>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
>>>>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>>>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
>>>>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
>>>>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>
>>>>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.
>>>> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
>>>> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
>>>> physical reality as a verified fact.
>>>>
>>>> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
>>>> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is nothing surprising, and doesn't demonstrate the existence of any god.
>> So if you wish for a cup of coffee and suddenly a cup of coffee appears
>> out of nowhere right in front of you this is not some kind of miracle?
>
> Well, I don't believe in any miracles or supernatural forces.

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Subject: Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]
From: xlt....@gmail.com (B.H.)
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 by: B.H. - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:14 UTC

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 4/22/2022 10:46 AM, B.H. wrote:
> > On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >> On 4/22/2022 6:50 AM, B.H. wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:56:41 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
> >>>>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
> >>>>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
> >>>>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
> >>>>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
> >>>>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
> >>>>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
> >>>>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
> >>>>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
> >>>>>>>>> different than it really is.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
> >>>>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
> >>>>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
> >>>>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
> >>>>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
> >>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Philip
> >>>>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
> >>>>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
> >>>>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.
> >>>> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
> >>>> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
> >>>> physical reality as a verified fact.
> >>>>
> >>>> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
> >>>> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> That is nothing surprising, and doesn't demonstrate the existence of any god.
> >> So if you wish for a cup of coffee and suddenly a cup of coffee appears
> >> out of nowhere right in front of you this is not some kind of miracle?
> >
> > Well, I don't believe in any miracles or supernatural forces.
> None-the-less when you see them with your own eyes first hand disbelief
> is erased.


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Re: cia [ philosophical materialism ]

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 by: olcott - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:35 UTC

On 4/22/2022 11:14 AM, B.H. wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/22/2022 10:46 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/22/2022 6:50 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:56:41 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
>>>>>>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
>>>>>>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>>>>>>>>>> different than it really is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
>>>>>>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>>>>>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
>>>>>>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>>>>>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
>>>>>>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
>>>>>>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.
>>>>>> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
>>>>>> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
>>>>>> physical reality as a verified fact.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
>>>>>> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is nothing surprising, and doesn't demonstrate the existence of any god.
>>>> So if you wish for a cup of coffee and suddenly a cup of coffee appears
>>>> out of nowhere right in front of you this is not some kind of miracle?
>>>
>>> Well, I don't believe in any miracles or supernatural forces.
>> None-the-less when you see them with your own eyes first hand disbelief
>> is erased.
>
> My guess would be that if people are "seeing miracles" it might be because they are caused by a sort of large network of people who share their beliefs and see the world that way.

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