On Mon, 2023-10-23 at 15:48 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> > The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot
> > to
> > destroy newsgroups.
>
> I'm not sure if you understand how news works... There is no
> centralized control. Google can't stop anything. They can at most
> prevent users reading this through their servers from seeing it, but
> they cannot do anything about users getting their newsfeed from
> somewhere else.

The spammers are sending their <animal> shite through Google!
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On Mon, 2023-10-23 at 10:42 -0400, bill wrote:
> They can when you look at the messages and see they originate on
> google groups.  And all with gmail accounts.  A totally in house
> problem.

Exactly! They dropped this pile of <animal> dung upon the rest of us!
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On 2023-10-23 18:44, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
> On Mon, 2023-10-23 at 15:48 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>>> The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot
>>> to
>>> destroy newsgroups.
>>
>> I'm not sure if you understand how news works... There is no
>> centralized control. Google can't stop anything. They can at most
>> prevent users reading this through their servers from seeing it, but
>> they cannot do anything about users getting their newsfeed from
>> somewhere else.
>
> The spammers are sending their <animal> shite through Google!

Sure. That's an easy ingress path, but if not through there, it could be
through a gazillion other ways. And sometimes are.
I guess the diminish of news in general, making Google the most common
gateway in makes it look more like a Google problem maybe.

Johnny

bill wrote:

> The newest version of Thunderbird doesn't appear to have filtering
> capabilities any more (or at least not  in an easily discovered
> method)

Thunderbird doesn't have the best filtering, but it's plenty good enough
to kill all google goups posts stone dead.

Tools/Message Filters
then either select a particular group, or select a whole news server
click [new] and give it a name like "kill google"
apply filter when, tick [getting new mail] untick other options
match [all of the following]
[message-id] contains "@googlegroups.com"
perform these actions [mark as read]
ok, close.

Yes there may be collateral damage, you can whitelist anyone you know
that posts via google groups (to my mind, there's no excuse for anyone
who knows VMS to resort to using a web interface) those people should
use a proper client, free or cheap servers are available, otherwise
expect their messages will be getting very few eyeballs.

On 2023-10-23, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>
> But how many such posts are you seeing? I'm using Eternal September, and it is
> an occasional thing. I just keep hitting the NEXT button until past the posts.
> I just refuse to let it bother me. Sometimes the filter in your head is the
> most effective.
>

If you look at Google Groups, there appears to be well over 100 messages
a day, each in its own thread, so that's well over 100 spam threads a day.

comp.terminals is now getting hammered as well.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Simon Clubley wrote:

> If you look at Google Groups, there appears to be well over 100 messages
> a day, each in its own thread, so that's well over 100 spam threads a day.

Some groups were getting a new spam thread per minute.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
Martin Rushton <martinsworkmachine@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:39:20 AM UTC+1, Ian Miller wrote:
> > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:32:53 AM UTC+1, Henry Crun wrote:
> >
> > > If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
> > > potions" spam, please let me know. Otherwise I am going to have
> > > to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like
> > > three decades -- No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs
> > > above, or in preparing this message. Recommended reading:
> > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor
> > Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g.
> > https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php
> Having only recently come back to a public newsgroup after 10 or 15
> years, it's frustrating that there doesn't appear to be any filters
> or blocking mechanism. This c**p wrecks any useful conversation. :-(

If access through one of "traditional" USENET providers is not an
option, e.g. due to corporate policies, then the second best solution
right now appears to be reading through well-filtered site
https://www.novabbs.com/devel/thread.php?group=comp.os.vms
Then, if you want to post, you can switch back to Google Groups.

Den 2023-10-24 kl. 14:44, skrev Michael S:
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
> Martin Rushton <martinsworkmachine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:39:20 AM UTC+1, Ian Miller wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:32:53 AM UTC+1, Henry Crun wrote:
>>>
>>>> If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
>>>> potions" spam, please let me know. Otherwise I am going to have
>>>> to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like
>>>> three decades -- No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs
>>>> above, or in preparing this message. Recommended reading:
>>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor
>>> Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g.
>>> https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php
>> Having only recently come back to a public newsgroup after 10 or 15
>> years, it's frustrating that there doesn't appear to be any filters
>> or blocking mechanism. This c**p wrecks any useful conversation. :-(
>
> If access through one of "traditional" USENET providers is not an
> option, e.g. due to corporate policies, then the second best solution
> right now appears to be reading through well-filtered site
> https://www.novabbs.com/devel/thread.php?group=comp.os.vms
> Then, if you want to post, you can switch back to Google Groups.
>
>

Kind of "works".
The main problem I see is that it cannot only display "unread" posts.
Thunderbird has no problem filtering them out.

On 2023-10-24 14:14, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-10-23, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> But how many such posts are you seeing? I'm using Eternal September, and it is
>> an occasional thing. I just keep hitting the NEXT button until past the posts.
>> I just refuse to let it bother me. Sometimes the filter in your head is the
>> most effective.
>>
>
> If you look at Google Groups, there appears to be well over 100 messages
> a day, each in its own thread, so that's well over 100 spam threads a day.
>
> comp.terminals is now getting hammered as well.

alt.folklore.computers as well. :(
So yeah. It's a fairly spread plague.

Johnny

On 10/23/2023 9:17 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 10/23/2023 6:55 AM, Martin Rushton wrote:
>> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:39:20 AM UTC+1, Ian Miller wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:32:53 AM UTC+1, Henry Crun wrote:
>>>> If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
>>>> potions" spam, please let me know.
>>>> Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with
>>>> VMS after something like three decades
>>>> --
>>>> No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing
>>>> this message.
>>>> Recommended reading:
>>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor
>>> Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g.
>>> https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php
>> Having only recently come back to a public newsgroup after 10 or 15
>> years, it's frustrating that there doesn't appear to be any filters or
>> blocking mechanism.  This c**p wrecks any useful conversation. :-(
>>
>
> Yes, it is regrettable.
>
> But how many such posts are you seeing?  I'm using Eternal September,
> and it is an occasional thing.  I just keep hitting the NEXT button
> until past the posts. I just refuse to let it bother me.  Sometimes the
> filter in your head is the most effective.
>
> DON'T LET THE BASTARDS WIN !!!!
>

Also using ES and seeing very little spam. Over on es.support there's a
big discussion going on about the spam. Ray has implemented spam
assassin and is getting a lot of help refining the filters. A 24 hour
block on google groups (I forget why) is also helping.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:32:48 +0300, Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com>
wrote:

>If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love potions" spam, please let me know.
>Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like three decades
> --
>No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
>Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

I commiserate, well, this spam crisis has finally induced an IPL 31
RTFM event, for my Forte Agent newreader client, and I was pleasantly
surprised by the regexp sophistication, elegance, and versatility of
filter expressions possible...

No learning on the fly alas, but building a fortress of filters is
practical, with a bit of ongoing maintenance.

Memo to Self: Read the manual more often!

On Thu, 2023-10-26 at 22:39 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
>
> > If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
> > potions" spam, please let me know.
> > Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with
> > VMS after something like three decades
> >   --
> > No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing
> > this message.
> > Recommended reading:
> > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor
>
> I commiserate, well, this spam crisis has finally induced an IPL 31
> RTFM event, for my Forte Agent newreader client, and I was pleasantly
> surprised by the regexp sophistication, elegance, and versatility of
> filter expressions possible...

Forte Agent. Been years since I last used that. Good memories :-D
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 22:39:58 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta
<vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:32:48 +0300, Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com>
>wrote:
>
>>If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love potions" spam, please let me know.
>>Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like three decades
>> --
>>No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
>>Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor
>
>I commiserate, well, this spam crisis has finally induced an IPL 31
>RTFM event, for my Forte Agent newreader client, and I was pleasantly
>surprised by the regexp sophistication, elegance, and versatility of
>filter expressions possible...
>
>No learning on the fly alas, but building a fortress of filters is
>practical, with a bit of ongoing maintenance.
>
>Memo to Self: Read the manual more often!

Could be tidier, thenatically, sifted snd sorted, and more compact,
precise, and elegant (using regexp can be like running with scissors),
but it gets the job done - to date- (semper kludgeamus) in the Forte
Agent Newsreader for Windows O/S.

It helps that comp.os.vms is a very specific domain of colloquy.

Subject: (pedofila | puttana | satanista | assassino | nazisti | é
troia | berlusconiani | mafioso | mafiosi | gruppo extreme | hester
holt)

Subject: (islamic | mantra | problem solution | job matching |
football)

Subject: (astrologer | boyfriend | girlfriend | love | black magic |
adderall | vashikaran | caster | relationship | husband | wife |
marriage | caste | abortion | pills | death spell)

Subject: (death spells | magic spell | kala jadu | india | divorce |
astrolager | muthkarni | family problem | life problems | spell |
spells | married)

:
:

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 2:14:09 PM UTC+2, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-10-23, Arne Vajhøj <ar...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:

>> Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like three decades

For the serious technical stuff there is https://forum.vmssoftware.com/ [HP - ITRC is useless], but for the watercooler editor/terminal/java rants - where does one go?

> > I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.

hundreds just today.

> Now, the bigger question is what is the point of THIS spam and
> why is COMP.OS.VMS being hit ?

My uppercase - these spams are to recognizable as spam, total nonsense, that it is more of a DOS attack.
Why would anyone be remotely tempted to read/click any of the those messages.

> IOW, get-rich-quick schemes _may_ have some takers, but what's the
> point of the current spam contents ?

Yup, and that why here question.

It's all gotten too cheap and too easy, we have to re-introduce a penny, or two per SMS, WhatsApp, Phone-call and Email.
It'll be much more quiet real quick.
I'll gladly pay my dollar/euro/pound per day for my contributions, and have the nonsense (and worse: thefts for the gullible) disappear.

Hein.

In article <b492a51b-cbac-4047-af64-263c9e03e2abn@googlegroups.com>,
heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com (Hein RMS van den Heuvel) wrote:

> My uppercase - these spams are too recognizable as spam, total
> nonsense, that it is more of a DOS attack. Why would anyone
> be remotely tempted to read/click any of the those messages.

You can be sure that the spammers are not actually targeting the readers
of the newsgroups they're spamming. Usenet users are a tiny minority
these days.

I think it's an attempt to use Usenet for Google search spamming. They
put their intended keywords into Google Groups a lot, along with the URLs
they're trying to promote. When someone searches for the keyword, they'll
get lots of hits that include the URLs, which may fool dumb searchers
(especially AI "helpers") into thinking the URLs are relevant.

John

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 6:09:15 PM UTC-4, John Dallman wrote:
: Another 180 came in overnight (USA)
: > You can be sure that the spammers are not actually targeting the readers
> of the newsgroups they're spamming. Usenet users are a tiny minority
> these days.

Agreed.

> I think it's an attempt to use Usenet for Google search spamming. They
> put their intended keywords into Google Groups a lot, along with the URLs
> they're trying to promote. When someone searches for the keyword, they'll
> get lots of hits that include the URLs, which may fool dumb searchers
> (especially AI "helpers") into thinking the URLs are relevant.

I like that explanation.
If true, then Google should be concerned as it makes them create bad/skewed search results.

Hein.

On 10/27/2023 7:55 AM, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 6:09:15 PM UTC-4, John Dallman wrote:
> :
> Another 180 came in overnight (USA)
> :
>> You can be sure that the spammers are not actually targeting the readers
>> of the newsgroups they're spamming. Usenet users are a tiny minority
>> these days.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> I think it's an attempt to use Usenet for Google search spamming. They
>> put their intended keywords into Google Groups a lot, along with the URLs
>> they're trying to promote. When someone searches for the keyword, they'll
>> get lots of hits that include the URLs, which may fool dumb searchers
>> (especially AI "helpers") into thinking the URLs are relevant.
>
> I like that explanation.
> If true, then Google should be concerned as it makes them create bad/skewed search results.

Considering that Google skews their results anyway....

I still say the solution is for the people who provide Google's
connection to USENET to drop them. When I was a major server in
USENET all of the connections I got had rules and if you violated
them they dropped you. One of those rules was SPAM control.

bill

On Fri, 2023-10-27 at 09:09 -0400, bill wrote:
> > I like that explanation.
> > If true, then Google should be concerned as it makes them create
> > bad/skewed search results.
>
> Considering that Google skews their results anyway....
>
> I still say the solution is for the people who provide Google's
> connection to USENET to drop them.  When I was a major server in
> USENET all of the connections I got had rules and if you violated
> them they dropped you. One of those rules was SPAM control.

IAWTP.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-4, Henry Crun wrote:
> If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love potions" spam, please let me know.
> Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like three decades
> --
> No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
> Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Not sure if this will help, but every time I visit: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/ with a browser, I will grab the first message in a block, then mark it as SPAM then jump to the next block. I usually do this 3-times every visit.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:17:11 +0100, Single Stage to Orbit
<alex.buell@munted.eu> wrote:

>On Thu, 2023-10-26 at 22:39 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
>>
>> > If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
>> > potions" spam, please let me know.
>> > Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with
>> > VMS after something like three decades
>> >   --
>> > No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing
>> > this message.
>> > Recommended reading:
>> > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor
>>
>> I commiserate, well, this spam crisis has finally induced an IPL 31
>> RTFM event, for my Forte Agent newreader client, and I was pleasantly
>> surprised by the regexp sophistication, elegance, and versatility of
>> filter expressions possible...
>
>Forte Agent. Been years since I last used that. Good memories :-D

Yep, I am very fond of it, it's been my constant companion with
comp.os.vms, since forever-ish.

Unfortunately, development has stalled since 2014, and with the SPAM
deluge, a nice new feature would be the ability to bulk select SPAM
posts, and to be able to automatically generate efficient kill filter
regexp rules, and update existing rules, to deal with new SPAM
patterns.

Given the very domain specific conversation on comp.os.vms, bathwater
babies should be minimal as collateral damage to the comp.os.vms
colloquy signal intregrity.

I imagine in the GNU/Linux world, there are plenty of clever clog
solutions out there.

Though for windows, it's pretty much Forte Agent, AFAIK, and for maOS,
it used to be Panic Unison, though development of it, has apparently
stalled since 2014, sadly.

https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/

After a flurry of kill filter rule building, the new normal, in the
morning, is incrementally tweak the rule set with some new patterns,
kill filter, and carry on.

Such is Internet life

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:45:06 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta
<vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:17:11 +0100, Single Stage to Orbit
><alex.buell@munted.eu> wrote:
: :
>>Forte Agent. Been years since I last used that. Good memories :-D
>
>Yep, I am very fond of it, it's been my constant companion with
>comp.os.vms, since forever-ish.
>
>Unfortunately, development has stalled since 2014, and with the SPAM
>deluge, a nice new feature would be the ability to bulk select SPAM
>posts, and to be able to automatically generate efficient kill filter
>regexp rules, and update existing rules, to deal with new SPAM
>patterns.
>
>Given the very domain specific conversation on comp.os.vms, bathwater
>babies should be minimal as collateral damage to the comp.os.vms
>colloquy signal intregrity.
>
>I imagine in the GNU/Linux world, there are plenty of clever clog
>solutions out there.
>
>Though for windows, it's pretty much Forte Agent, AFAIK, and for maOS,
>it used to be Panic Unison, though development of it, has apparently
>stalled since 2014, sadly.
>
>https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/
>
>After a flurry of kill filter rule building, the new normal, in the
>morning, is incrementally tweak the rule set with some new patterns,
>kill filter, and carry on.
>
>Such is Internet life

I meant to add, that Forte Agent may well be behaved, running under
CodeWeavers CrossOver, on GNU/Linux, macOS, and, recently,
ChromeOS(!):

https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover

https://www.forteinc.com/agent/

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 09:18:13 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta
<vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
: :
>>Given the very domain specific conversation on comp.os.vms, bathwater
>>babies should be minimal as collateral damage to the comp.os.vms
>>colloquy signal intregrity.
>>
>>I imagine in the GNU/Linux world, there are plenty of clever clog
>>solutions out there.
>>
>>Though for windows, it's pretty much Forte Agent, AFAIK, and for maOS,
>>it used to be Panic Unison, though development of it, has apparently
>>stalled since 2014, sadly.
>>
>>https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/
>>
>>After a flurry of kill filter rule building, the new normal, in the
>>morning, is incrementally tweak the rule set with some new patterns,
>>kill filter, and carry on.
>>
>>Such is Internet life
>
>I meant to add, that Forte Agent may well be behaved, running under
>CodeWeavers CrossOver, on GNU/Linux, macOS, and, recently,
>ChromeOS(!):
>
>https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover
>
>https://www.forteinc.com/agent/

Alas, the O.G., year dot, Forte Agent is "museum ware", it has not
been under active development since 2014, and although the developer
website is fully functional, you cannot succesfully purchase a copy,
and the developers are non-responsive, unfortunately - I imagine the
website is kept going out of pride and respect for a solid newsreader
with a long history.

Refer to alt.binaries.warez, should you need such a windows newsreader
with adequate kill filtering sub-systems, to eke out a dignified and
functional life on comp.os.vms, these days.

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-4, Henry Crun wrote:
> If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love potions" spam, please let me know.
> Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like three decades
> --
> No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
> Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

It is now Saturday morning and I was preparing to write a python program which would scan "https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms", detect trigger phrases, then mark the message as SPAM.

That's when I noticed that the google nerds had added a tool that I just noticed:
(1) display a page of 30 messages
(2) click on the colored icon of any message you wish to flag (you can click up to 30)
(3) click on the icon containing a circled exclamation (a dialog will pop up)
(4) SPAM will usually be selected by default so click the button "submit report"

I have no idea if/when google's algorithms will kick in to stop this ridiculous non-sense at the source BUT I am hoping that if multiple visitors of this newsgroup do the same as me, then this activity will set off a few alarms somewhere.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

Neil Rieck schrieb am Samstag, 4. November 2023 um 10:53:08 UTC+1:

> That's when I noticed that the google nerds had added a tool that I just noticed:
> (1) display a page of 30 messages
> (2) click on the colored icon of any message you wish to flag (you can click up to 30)

Neil,

it's even easier than that: click on the 'Select all' square and it will select all 30 messages displayed. You should have checked before, if all 30 messages look like spam - judging from the message title.

Volker.

On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 5:53:08 AM UTC-4, Neil Rieck wrote:
> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-4, Henry Crun wrote:
[...snip...]
>

Even better, click the top checkbox to select all 30 items
The scan the one-liners unclicking the one or two you wish to keep

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html