New systemd update will bring Windows’ infamous Blue Screen of Death to
Linux

Windows' infamous "Blue Screen of Death" is a bit of a punchline. People
have made a hobby of spotting them out in the wild, and in some circles,
they remain a byword for the supposed flakiness and instability of PCs.
To this day, networked PCs in macOS are represented by beige CRT
monitors displaying a BSOD.

But the BSOD is supposed to be a diagnostic tool, an informational
screen that technicians can use to begin homing in on the problem that
caused the crash in the first place; that old Windows' BSOD error codes
were often so broad and vague as to be useless doesn't make the idea a
bad one. Today, version 255 of the Linux systemd project honors that
original intent by adding a systemd-bsod component that generates a
full-screen display of some error messages when a Linux system crashes.

....

From: <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/12/linux-distros-are-about-
to-get-a-killer-windows-feature-the-blue-screen-of-death/>

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
> New systemd update will bring Windows? infamous Blue Screen of Death to
> Linux

Well the guy who created systemd and still maintains it
works for Microsoft, so why not.

<snip>

> But the BSOD is supposed to be a diagnostic tool, an informational
> screen that technicians can use to begin homing in on the problem that
> caused the crash in the first place; that old Windows' BSOD error codes
> were often so broad and vague as to be useless doesn't make the idea a
> bad one. Today, version 255 of the Linux systemd project honors that
> original intent by adding a systemd-bsod component that generates a
> full-screen display of some error messages when a Linux system crashes.

An init system crashing is very bad, but I guess this is
needed on Linux due to how complex systemd is. The BSDs
have no need for such a thing since their init(8) is very
simple.

I hope the BSDs can stay far away from all the craziness
going on in Linux Land.

John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> writes:

> I hope the BSDs can stay far away from all the craziness
> going on in Linux Land.

linux.conf.au
The Tragedy of systemd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo&t=1654s

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:22:05 +0000, yeti wrote:

> John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> writes:
>
>> I hope the BSDs can stay far away from all the craziness going on in
>> Linux Land.
>
> linux.conf.au The Tragedy of systemd
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo&t=1654s

For a very small audience, this might be interesting and entertaining...

https://mwl.io/fiction/smut

The first book is "Savaged by Systemd". But it is *far* from what you
might think.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> writes:
> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
>> New systemd update will bring Windows? infamous Blue Screen of Death to
>> Linux
>
> Well the guy who created systemd and still maintains it
> works for Microsoft, so why not.
>
> <snip>
>
>> But the BSOD is supposed to be a diagnostic tool, an informational
>> screen that technicians can use to begin homing in on the problem that
>> caused the crash in the first place; that old Windows' BSOD error codes
>> were often so broad and vague as to be useless doesn't make the idea a
>> bad one. Today, version 255 of the Linux systemd project honors that
>> original intent by adding a systemd-bsod component that generates a
>> full-screen display of some error messages when a Linux system crashes.
>
> An init system crashing is very bad, but I guess this is needed on
> Linux due to how complex systemd is. The BSDs have no need for such a
> thing since their init(8) is very simple.

Boot failures happen in all systems, and you want some kind of
diagnostic information to debug them (unless you like debugging by
guesswork). systemd-bsod is just another way of displaying log messages
that already exist. It’s nothing to do with systemd’s complexity.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Boot failures happen in all systems, and you want some kind of
>diagnostic information to debug them (unless you like debugging by
>guesswork). systemd-bsod is just another way of displaying log messages
>that already exist. It’s nothing to do with systemd’s complexity.

Doesn't the kernel do that already? Isn't that one of the jobs of the
kernel, to provide diagnostic information in cases of failure?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Boot failures happen in all systems, and you want some kind of
>> diagnostic information to debug them (unless you like debugging by
>> guesswork). systemd-bsod is just another way of displaying log
>> messages that already exist. It’s nothing to do with systemd’s
>> complexity.
>
> Doesn't the kernel do that already?

Kernel logs yes, log messages from user processes no.

> Isn't that one of the jobs of the kernel, to provide diagnostic
> information in cases of failure?

Kernel-level failures yes, high-level failures no.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Boot failures happen in all systems, and you want some kind of
>>> diagnostic information to debug them (unless you like debugging by
>>> guesswork). systemd-bsod is just another way of displaying log
>>> messages that already exist. It’s nothing to do with systemd’s
>>> complexity.
>>
>> Doesn't the kernel do that already?
>
>Kernel logs yes, log messages from user processes no.

I thought we were talking about boot failures? Log messages from user
processes get handled by syslog, which systemd has (badly) replaced long
ago. Except for those that handle their logging themselves.

>> Isn't that one of the jobs of the kernel, to provide diagnostic
>> information in cases of failure?
>
>Kernel-level failures yes, high-level failures no.

I'm already annoyed about Ubuntu's stupid popups about errors being
logged as it is.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
<snip>

> Kernel-level failures yes, high-level failures no.

What would be a high-level failure ?

IIRC, if something happens in the BSDs that prevents
booting, you would be dropped into single user mode
with the appropriate error(s) on the console. Been
a very long time since I had an issue booting BSD.

Not quite sure what this BSOD will do for you, but if I
get real curious I can do WEB searches to find out :)

John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> wrote:
> Not quite sure what this BSOD will do for you,

Move a systemd Linux system closer to ms-windows, given that the
systemd creator and maintainer now works for Microsoft.

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Boot failures happen in all systems, and you want some kind of
>>>> diagnostic information to debug them (unless you like debugging by
>>>> guesswork). systemd-bsod is just another way of displaying log
>>>> messages that already exist. It’s nothing to do with systemd’s
>>>> complexity.
>>>
>>> Doesn't the kernel do that already?
>>
>>Kernel logs yes, log messages from user processes no.
>
> I thought we were talking about boot failures?

The Linux boot process includes huge amounts of user-space activity.

> Log messages from user processes get handled by syslog, which systemd
> has (badly) replaced long ago. Except for those that handle their
> logging themselves.

I’m not sure where the confusion is coming from here. Sometimes things
fail at boot time, if that happens then you want to see the
corresponding diagnostics. systemd-bsod is one way to achieve that on a
systemd system.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On 2023-12-09, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> writes:
>> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
>>> New systemd update will bring Windows? infamous Blue Screen of Death to
>>> Linux
>>
>> Well the guy who created systemd and still maintains it
>> works for Microsoft, so why not.
>>
>>> But the BSOD is supposed to be a diagnostic tool, an informational
>>
>> An init system crashing is very bad, but I guess this is needed on
>
> Boot failures happen in all systems, and you want some kind of
> diagnostic information to debug them (unless you like debugging by
> guesswork). systemd-bsod is just another way of displaying log messages
> that already exist.

Linux-BSOD diagnostic process: use phone to take picture of screen and
text it to support.

Simplification: Add QR code to BSOD. Then automatically root the phone
through its corporate sponsored browser.