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computers / comp.mobile.android / Re: ip address

SubjectAuthor
* ip addressPietB
+- Re: ip addressnospam
+* Re: ip addressVanguardLH
|`* Re: ip addressPiet
| `- Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
`* Re: ip addressChris
 +* Re: ip addressVanguardLH
 |`- Re: ip addressnospam
 `* Re: ip addressnospam
  +* Re: ip addressJoerg Lorenz
  |`- Re: ip addressnospam
  +* Re: ip addressAndy Burns
  |`* Re: ip addressnospam
  | +* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | |`* Re: ip addressAndy Burns
  | | +* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | | |+- Re: ip addressAlan
  | | |`* Re: ip addressAndy Burns
  | | | `* Random MAC address (Was): ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | | |  `* Re: Random MAC address (Was): ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | | |   `- Re: Random MAC address (Was): ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | | `* Re: ip addressnospam
  | |  `* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | |   +- Re: ip addressAlan
  | |   `* Re: ip addressnospam
  | |    `* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | |     `- Re: ip addressnospam
  | `* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  +* Re: ip addressnospam
  |  |`* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | +* Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | |`* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | | +* Re: ip addressChris
  |  | | |`* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | | | +* Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | | | |`* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | | | | +* Re: ip addressChris
  |  | | | | |+* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | | | | ||+- Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | | | | ||`- Re: ip addressChris
  |  | | | | |`- Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | | | | +* Re: ip addressRob
  |  | | | | |+* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | | | | ||`- Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | | | | |`- Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | | | | `- Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | | | `* Re: ip addressChris
  |  | | |  `- Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | | `* Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | |  `* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  | |   `- Re: ip addressnospam
  |  | `* Re: ip addressJoerg Lorenz
  |  |  `* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  |   `* Re: ip addressRob
  |  |    +* Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  |    |+- Re: ip addressnospam
  |  |    |`* Re: ip addressJoerg Lorenz
  |  |    | `- Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  |  |    `- Re: ip addressJoerg Lorenz
  |  `* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
  |   `- Re: ip addressCarlos E.R.
  +* Re: ip addressNY
  |`* Re: ip addressnospam
  | +- Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
  | `- Re: ip addressNY
  +* Re: ip addressChris
  |`- Re: ip addressnospam
  `* Re: ip addresss|b
   `* Re: ip addressnospam
    `* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
     `* Re: ip addressnospam
      `* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
       `* Re: ip addressnospam
        `* Re: ip addressAndy Burnelli
         `- Re: ip addressHank Rogers

Pages:123
Subject: Re: ip address
From: Chris
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 18:59 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 18:59:05 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <t4ru1p$mpl$1@dont-email.me>
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<t4qk00$pgq$1@dont-email.me>
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nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <t4qk00$pgq$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

How can I get the same ip local address back I had before I left on each
phone when I return to my flat?

Give your phone(s) a static ip address in your router.

that is a very bad idea.

the correct solution is to use dhcp reservation, which will work as
desired locally and have no effect on other networks.

My bad. Got the terminology wrong.

How that's achieved
differs in each router's config. Check the manual.

that's true for all settings on all routers, plus a few of them do not
offer dhcp reservation or may have a different name.






Subject: Re: ip address
From: s|b
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: XXII
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 19:06 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: me...@privacy.invalid (s|b)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 21:06:08 +0200
Organization: XXII
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On Tue, 03 May 2022 06:43:32 -0400, nospam wrote:

the correct solution is to use dhcp reservation, which will work as
desired locally and have no effect on other networks.

I use address reservation based on MAC-address. Works like a charm.

--
s|b


Subject: Re: ip address
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 19:09 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 15:09:08 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 21
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In article <t4ru1p$mpl$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

How can I get the same ip local address back I had before I left on each
phone when I return to my flat?

Give your phone(s) a static ip address in your router.

that is a very bad idea.

the correct solution is to use dhcp reservation, which will work as
desired locally and have no effect on other networks.

My bad. Got the terminology wrong.

it's even more confusing when it's called static dhcp, contradicting
the 'd' in dhcp, which stands for dynamic.

one of the more common third party firmwares, dd-wrt, refers to it as
static dhcp and static leases:
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Static_DHCP


Subject: Re: ip address
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 19:09 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 15:09:09 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <030520221509094577%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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In article <jddcp2Feh29U1@mid.individual.net>, s|b <me@privacy.invalid>
wrote:


the correct solution is to use dhcp reservation, which will work as
desired locally and have no effect on other networks.

I use address reservation based on MAC-address. Works like a charm.

yes it does.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 20:43 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 21:43:10 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t4s44a$o3t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t4q1sv$lp8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t4qk00$pgq$1@dont-email.me> <030520220643324386%nospam@nospam.invalid> <jdcik1F9ll4U1@mid.individual.net> <030520220755524775%nospam@nospam.invalid> <t4rjg0$ska$1@gioia.aioe.org> <jdd2luFcl7gU1@mid.individual.net> <030520221316097761%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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nospam wrote:

Though beware that recent android (probably iThings too) can present a randomised MAC address, instead of the device's physical MAC address, this is
to prevent you being tracked by e.g free instore wifi, but you can tell each SSID saved to your phone to not use randomisation, so that DHCP reservations work properly.

that's optional, useful in some situations and not in others.

According to this article, various MAC randomization features have
successively been implemented since Android 8, and improving ever since.
 Implementing MAC Randomization*
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/wifi-mac-randomization

Certainly MAC randomization is the default on my Android 11 phone.
 *MAC Randomization Behavior*
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/wifi-mac-randomization-behavior

How does your vaunted iPhone handle MAC randomization by default, nospam?


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 20:43 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 22:43:26 +0200
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On 2022-05-03 18:06, nospam wrote:
In article <0208ki-mrh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


using dhcp reservation only affects the user's own network. other
networks will be unaffected since there is no reservation there.

Sometimes it is not practical this method.

extremely rarely.

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

With a family of four, count four laptops, four phones, four tablets, two printers, router, access points, game consoles, NAS boxes, multimedia TVs, chromecast devices, amazon devices, smart speakers, smart lamps, smart  curtains, security cameras... plus old hardware that they forgot to remove, because the routers don't have a field to add a comment on what is what entry in the list.

:-)


On others, the router is
restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP.

that's a security exploit that needs to immediately be closed. if they
can do it, so can the bad guys.

They shouldn't.

It is used for remote repairs when people call for assistance, and to update firmwares, which normal people don't do. The benefits of these updates and maintenance outweighs the risks. AFAIK, the system has not been abused over here.


Otherwise, yes, it
is the best method.

it is.


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 20:48 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 22:48:47 +0200
Lines: 41
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On 2022-05-03 18:07, Andy Burnelli wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:

I have not tried on Android, but the setup should know to use a fixed IP on certain WiFi setup, and dhcp on the rest. I do that on some laptops.

As Carlos says, it's _per SSID_ on my phone (maybe even per BSSID?)
https://i.postimg.cc/nchSVcmS/vysor30.jpg Static/Reserved IP address

using dhcp reservation only affects the user's own network. other
networks will be unaffected since there is no reservation there.

Sometimes it is not practical this method. For instance, there is a limited number of assignations on home routers. On others, the router is restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP. Otherwise, yes, it

I do both but I agree that I "probably" shouldn't do that (but I do).
https://i.postimg.cc/nchSVcmS/vysor30.jpg Static/Reserved IP address

What's the worst thing that can happen if I do both? Dunno. Do you?

The most common problem is ignoring what is the IP range that the DHCP is giving to boxes, and can happen in both methods. I mean assigning an IP that the DHCP server also gives to another box. Some routers may check if it is in use, others don't.

There are flamewars about what system is best :-P

The advantage of assigning IPs on the dhcp server is that it is a central list. Assigning directly on the computer, it can happen that you make a mistake and give the same address to two machines. This can not happen on the dhcp assignation list, but on the other hand, as there is usually no field for comments or names, you can easily forget which entry is what machine.

That's the worst thing, a conflict.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Alan
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 20:52 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 13:52:22 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2022-05-03 1:43 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
nospam wrote:

Though beware that recent android (probably iThings too) can present a randomised MAC address, instead of the device's physical MAC address, this is
to prevent you being tracked by e.g free instore wifi, but you can tell each SSID saved to your phone to not use randomisation, so that DHCP reservations work properly.

that's optional, useful in some situations and not in others.

According to this article, various MAC randomization features have
successively been implemented since Android 8, and improving ever since.
Implementing MAC Randomization*
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/wifi-mac-randomization

Certainly MAC randomization is the default on my Android 11 phone.
*MAC Randomization Behavior*
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/wifi-mac-randomization-behavior How does your vaunted iPhone handle MAC randomization by default, nospam?

With Private Wi-Fi Address:

'Use private Wi-Fi addresses on iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, and Apple Watch

To improve privacy, your device uses a different MAC address with each Wi-Fi network.'

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT211227

'Turn Private Address off or on for a network

Private Address is turned on by default. For improved privacy, leave it on for all networks that support it.'


Subject: Random MAC address (Was): ip address
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 20:56 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Random MAC address (Was): ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 21:56:24 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t4s4t4$12ho$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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Andy Burns wrote:

Somewhere I remember reading that you can't (easily?) change the randomized
MAC address per SSID once it has been established. Dunno if that's true.

Probably you'd need to forget and re-join the SSID?

Somewhere I read long ago that wasn't as obvious as one would intuitively
think it would be, but let me do a search to see what the scoop really is.

In fact, I just happened to run across this that I wrote myself about a
year ago, which is basically the last time that I looked at the topic:
 *Privacy: How to set a [DIFFERENT] random MAC address upon every Wi-Fi connection
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/privacy-how-to-set-a-random-mac-address-upon-every-wi-fi-connection.4284905/

The fact is that randomization of the MAC address is an evolving feature.

 *How to Address MAC Randomization*

 "Once a random MAC address is used for a given network profile,   the mobile device will continue to use the same random MAC address   even after the user deletes the network profile and recreates   the SSID/network profile."

Note only as of Android 11 was that default MAC randomization SSID based:
 *Enhanced randomize MAC addresses*

 "In the name of privacy, the Google developers made it possible to use   a randomized MAC address, starting with Android 8. However, it wasn't
  until Android 11 that the default status of MAC randomization was such
  that users could enable the feature. To make it even more appealing,   the randomization of MAC addresses on Android 11 is network based   (per SSID). In other words, every time your device connects to a   new network, it can use a randomized MAC address."

But it gets far more detailed than just that one sentence, apparently:
 *Android 10 & 11: Get new random MAC for same SSID without factory reset*

 "Randomized MAC addresses are generated per SSID and are persistent."

But then there's...  "Deleting the SSID, rebooting and connecting again there is the same   random MAC as before. However if you reset the device to factory defaults
  and connecting to the same SSID, the device connects with another random
  MAC address."

And then...
 "On Android 11 there is a new option "Wi-Fi-enhanced MAC randomization"  in the developer options. When you enable it and delete/forget the network
 and then reconnect you get every time a new MAC address. Also you get a
 new MAC address for this Wifi/SSID when you reboot your device.  Disabling and enabling Wifi is not enough to get a new MAC.
 When you disable this option you get back your previous used random MAC."

But there is the catch that I thought I had remembered from long ago...  "The key related to MAC randomization is only generated the first time.
 And the MAC address is calculated by calling hmac_sha256 over the  SSID with the generated key. This key is stored in the /data/...  on the device, and as far as I know, Android does not provide any API
 to remove it. But when you perform a factory reset, all the data located
 under /data/... is wiped out, that's why the MAC address changes after
 that. Therefore, if you can manage to remove the key, you can trigger  this behavior, which is not easy, in my opinion."

Yet, even that is somewhat contradicted by what it says right after that.
 "Here is a list of events that will change your random MAC:
 The network name changes
 The operating system is upgraded and the device connects  to the network for the first time after the upgrade
 The network name is "forgotten" in the phone settings  and then reconnected"


Digging deeper, the random-MAC persistence seems to be settable:
 *Developer option for non-persistent randomization*

 "For devices running Android 11 or 12, users can enable non-persistent  MAC randomization globally for all Wi-Fi networks (that have MAC
 randomization enabled) through the developer options screen.  The option to enable non-persistent MAC randomization for all  profiles is found at  Settings > Developer Options > Wi-Fi non-persistent MAC randomization."

Since I can now update to Android 12, I'll see if it's done differently.
--
On Usenet, some people are here to be purposefully helpful, while others
(e.g., the iKooks) are here simply to argue about anything that they can.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 21:32 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 22:32:35 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t4s70v$1shm$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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nospam wrote:

the correct solution is to use dhcp reservation, which will work as
desired locally and have no effect on other networks.

I use address reservation based on MAC-address. Works like a charm.

yes it does.

I use both, but probably should only use address reservation myself.
https://i.postimg.cc/nchSVcmS/vysor30.jpg Static/Reserved IP address

Luckily router address reservation works with random MAC addresses.
https://i.postimg.cc/k4K8dZqv/vysor31.jpg Random MAC address is static
--
Each post to Usenet should strive to add value to what people already said.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 21:55 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 17:55:18 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <t4s44a$o3t$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:


How does your vaunted iPhone handle MAC randomization by default

by randomizing it. duh.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 21:55 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 17:55:20 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <eog8ki-fjs.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

20 devices is nothing.

most routers use a /24 for the lan, for up to 254 devices.

20 devices is less than 10% of the available ip space, with more than
90% remaining to be used.

With a family of four, count four laptops, four phones, four tablets,
two printers, router, access points, game consoles, NAS boxes,
multimedia TVs, chromecast devices, amazon devices, smart speakers,
smart lamps, smart  curtains, security cameras... plus old hardware that
they forgot to remove,

that still doesn't add up to 254 devices, and that's assuming they're
all on all the time.

also, a lot of iot devices do not have their own ip address. they
connect via a hub (only one ip needed for the hub), bluetooth (direct
between devices but slow) or more recently, thread (fast, and only
needs a border router).

because the routers don't have a field to add a
comment on what is what entry in the list.

yes they do.

most routers allow for a custom device name for dhcp reservations in
the event that the device responds with something useless, such as its
mac address. many routers use the oui to identify the manufacturer,
which is a little better, except when you have a bunch of devices from
the same company.

On others, the router is
restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP.

that's a security exploit that needs to immediately be closed. if they
can do it, so can the bad guys.

They shouldn't.

they absolutely should. it's a backdoor waiting to be exploited.

It is used for remote repairs when people call for assistance, and to
update firmwares, which normal people don't do.

one reason why many routers and other devices auto-update.

The benefits of these
updates and maintenance outweighs the risks.

all it does is reduce the number of tech support calls, while putting
the customers at risk for being hacked. in other words, it helps the
isp, not their users.

AFAIK, the system has not
been abused over here.

yet.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 21:57 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 17:57:09 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <t4s70v$1shm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

Luckily router address reservation works with random MAC addresses.

no it doesn't, for reasons that should be obvious.


Subject: Re: Random MAC address (Was): ip address
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 22:11 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Random MAC address (Was): ip address
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 23:11:40 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Andy Burnelli wrote:

Since I can now update to Android 12, I'll see if it's done differently.

When I updated to Android 12, all hell broke loose on my Nova homescreen,
surprisingly, but for this topic, also the MAC randomization appears
to have changed per each of the many SSID's I can connect to at home.
https://i.postimg.cc/YqTk0q1T/ap.jpg Cellular repeater & home Wi-Fi APs

Which is one reason why doing the reservation by MAC address from the
router isn't always a great idea, although it is easy to recover from.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 23:13 UTC
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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 00:13:43 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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nospam wrote:

Luckily router address reservation works with random MAC addresses.

no it doesn't, for reasons that should be obvious.

Every time you bullshit like that, nospam, I have to think what a miserably
despicable truly ignorant completely uneducated person you are indeed.

The fact remains that almost every recent Android phone (10, 11 & 12) sets
Wi-Fi MAC randomization by default (per SSID), and yet you brazenly claim
they're not working with routers (using Address Reservation settings).

You idiot iKooks have such a low IQ that you don't even realize how much
you bullshit every second of every day of your entire worthless lives.
--
On Usenet, some people are here to be purposefully helpful, while others
(e.g., the iKooks) are here simply to argue about anything that they can.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 23:49 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 19:49:18 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <t4scuk$1sru$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:


Luckily router address reservation works with random MAC addresses.

no it doesn't, for reasons that should be obvious.

Every time you bullshit like that, nospam, I have to think what a miserably
despicable truly ignorant completely uneducated person you are indeed.

The fact remains that almost every recent Android phone (10, 11 & 12) sets
Wi-Fi MAC randomization by default (per SSID), and yet you brazenly claim
they're not working with routers (using Address Reservation settings).

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41jej2NrC9L._AC_.jpg


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 01:12 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 03:12:31 +0200
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On 2022-05-03 23:55, nospam wrote:
In article <eog8ki-fjs.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

20 devices is nothing.

most routers use a /24 for the lan, for up to 254 devices.

20 devices is less than 10% of the available ip space, with more than
90% remaining to be used.

Sure.

But, for example, I can only reserve 32 fixed addresses on my router.


With a family of four, count four laptops, four phones, four tablets,
two printers, router, access points, game consoles, NAS boxes,
multimedia TVs, chromecast devices, amazon devices, smart speakers,
smart lamps, smart  curtains, security cameras... plus old hardware that
they forgot to remove,

that still doesn't add up to 254 devices, and that's assuming they're
all on all the time.

But it adds up to 32. That's the count, 32, not 255.


also, a lot of iot devices do not have their own ip address. they
connect via a hub (only one ip needed for the hub), bluetooth (direct
between devices but slow) or more recently, thread (fast, and only
needs a border router).

Mine use an IP each.


because the routers don't have a field to add a
comment on what is what entry in the list.

yes they do.

Mine doesn't.


most routers allow for a custom device name for dhcp reservations in
the event that the device responds with something useless, such as its
mac address. many routers use the oui to identify the manufacturer,
which is a little better, except when you have a bunch of devices from
the same company.

On others, the router is
restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP.

that's a security exploit that needs to immediately be closed. if they
can do it, so can the bad guys.

They shouldn't.

they absolutely should. it's a backdoor waiting to be exploited.

Nope. It is a security service.


It is used for remote repairs when people call for assistance, and to
update firmwares, which normal people don't do.

one reason why many routers and other devices auto-update.

That is way dangerous. I have seen none of that.


The benefits of these
updates and maintenance outweighs the risks.

all it does is reduce the number of tech support calls, while putting
the customers at risk for being hacked. in other words, it helps the
isp, not their users.

No hacks here.


AFAIK, the system has not
been abused over here.

yet.

It's been a decade at least.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Joerg Lorenz
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 05:19 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: hugyb...@gmx.ch (Joerg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 07:19:16 +0200
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Am 03.05.22 um 22:43 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2022-05-03 18:06, nospam wrote:
In article <0208ki-mrh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


using dhcp reservation only affects the user's own network. other
networks will be unaffected since there is no reservation there.

Sometimes it is not practical this method.

extremely rarely.

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

My Wifi 6-router has a lot more.

With a family of four, count four laptops, four phones, four tablets,
two printers, router, access points, game consoles, NAS boxes,
multimedia TVs, chromecast devices, amazon devices, smart speakers,
smart lamps, smart  curtains, security cameras... plus old hardware that
they forgot to remove, because the routers don't have a field to add a
comment on what is what entry in the list.

:-)

Modern router allow to assign names and symbols to be added to the list
of active and inactive devices.


On others, the router is
restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP.

that's a security exploit that needs to immediately be closed. if they
can do it, so can the bad guys.

They shouldn't.

False.

It is used for remote repairs when people call for assistance, and to
update firmwares, which normal people don't do. The benefits of these
updates and maintenance outweighs the risks. AFAIK, the system has not
been abused over here.

If you trust your provider ... and only with explicit permission.


--
De gustibus non est disputandum


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Chris
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 06:40 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 06:40:59 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-05-03 23:55, nospam wrote:
In article <eog8ki-fjs.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

20 devices is nothing.

most routers use a /24 for the lan, for up to 254 devices.

20 devices is less than 10% of the available ip space, with more than
90% remaining to be used.

Sure.

But, for example, I can only reserve 32 fixed addresses on my router.

If you need more - why? - get a different router. Most allow you to specify
what range of IPs are dynamic and which can be reserved. I think the
default on mine is 100 dynamic.


With a family of four, count four laptops, four phones, four tablets,
two printers, router, access points, game consoles, NAS boxes,
multimedia TVs, chromecast devices, amazon devices, smart speakers,
smart lamps, smart  curtains, security cameras... plus old hardware that
they forgot to remove,

that still doesn't add up to 254 devices, and that's assuming they're
all on all the time.

But it adds up to 32. That's the count, 32, not 255.


also, a lot of iot devices do not have their own ip address. they
connect via a hub (only one ip needed for the hub), bluetooth (direct
between devices but slow) or more recently, thread (fast, and only
needs a border router).

Mine use an IP each.


because the routers don't have a field to add a
comment on what is what entry in the list.

yes they do.

Mine doesn't.


most routers allow for a custom device name for dhcp reservations in
the event that the device responds with something useless, such as its
mac address. many routers use the oui to identify the manufacturer,
which is a little better, except when you have a bunch of devices from
the same company.

On others, the router is
restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP.

that's a security exploit that needs to immediately be closed. if they
can do it, so can the bad guys.

They shouldn't.

they absolutely should. it's a backdoor waiting to be exploited.

Nope. It is a security service.


It is used for remote repairs when people call for assistance, and to
update firmwares, which normal people don't do.

one reason why many routers and other devices auto-update.

That is way dangerous. I have seen none of that.


The benefits of these
updates and maintenance outweighs the risks.

all it does is reduce the number of tech support calls, while putting
the customers at risk for being hacked. in other words, it helps the
isp, not their users.

No hacks here.


AFAIK, the system has not
been abused over here.

yet.

It's been a decade at least.






Subject: Re: ip address
From: NY
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 08:20 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: me...@privacy.invalid (NY)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 09:20:18 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:030520221128410887%nospam@nospam.invalid...
In article <t4rgrk$qhf$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

How can I get the same ip local address back I had before I left on
each phone when I return to my flat?

Give your phone(s) a static ip address in your router.

that is a very bad idea.

the correct solution is to use dhcp reservation, which will work as
desired locally and have no effect on other networks.

How that's achieved
differs in each router's config. Check the manual.

that's true for all settings on all routers, plus a few of them do not
offer dhcp reservation or may have a different name.

Yes I would always choose address reservation (configured at the router)
over static address (configured at the computer/phone) for this very reason:
that your phone gets a fixed address from your own network but still gets an
address in the same subnet or a different subnet when it connects to another
router.

a very clear description.

Thanks.

The one other thing you need to make sure of with a static IP address configured at the device is that it is *not* part of the "scope" (pool) of addresses that the router's DHCP can hand out to other devices on the network which use DHCP. For this reason, static addresses should be placed at one end or the other of the subnet range, and the range of DHCP addresses adjusted accordingly.

For example, the router may be supplied pre-configured to hand out addresses 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.253. You want a few static addresses so make them ..2, .3, .4 and .5, and then change the "scope" to 192.168.1.6 - 192.168.1.253, or else make them .250, .251 .252 and .253, and change the scope to 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.249.

DHCP can detect devices with static IPs that lie within the DHCP scope, *if those devices are already running*, but if a static device is turned on after another device has been given .2 by DHCP, and the static device uses ..2, then a duplicate IP clash will occur - in the case of Windows this gives a popup message in the system tray. I'm not sure how Android handles it. It's a loooong time since I've seen an IP clash because normally it doesn't happen if you make sure static address is outside DHCP scope.

Subject: Re: ip address
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 10:31 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 12:31:58 +0200
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On 2022-05-04 08:40, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-05-03 23:55, nospam wrote:
In article <eog8ki-fjs.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

20 devices is nothing.

most routers use a /24 for the lan, for up to 254 devices.

20 devices is less than 10% of the available ip space, with more than
90% remaining to be used.

Sure.

But, for example, I can only reserve 32 fixed addresses on my router.

If you need more - why? - get a different router.

Can't.

I don't "need" more, anyway, just commenting that home routers have absurd limits.

Most allow you to specify
what range of IPs are dynamic and which can be reserved. I think the
default on mine is 100 dynamic.

Well, I have 255 dynamic.
But I just can only reserve 32. Dhcp "fixed" addresses.

The router normally uses 192.168.1.*, but I changed the dhcp range to be 192.168.2.*, so it is larger than usual. But fixated addresses are only 32, that's a hard limit.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 10:39 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 12:39:13 +0200
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On 2022-05-04 07:19, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 03.05.22 um 22:43 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2022-05-03 18:06, nospam wrote:
In article <0208ki-mrh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


using dhcp reservation only affects the user's own network. other
networks will be unaffected since there is no reservation there.

Sometimes it is not practical this method.

extremely rarely.

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

My Wifi 6-router has a lot more.

With a family of four, count four laptops, four phones, four tablets,
two printers, router, access points, game consoles, NAS boxes,
multimedia TVs, chromecast devices, amazon devices, smart speakers,
smart lamps, smart  curtains, security cameras... plus old hardware that
they forgot to remove, because the routers don't have a field to add a
comment on what is what entry in the list.

:-)

Modern router allow to assign names and symbols to be added to the list
of active and inactive devices.

Well, mine is not that modern.

It is an ISP router, can't replace with my own because the needed configuration for all services is not documented, so until I have a real itch to replace it, and find a valid excuse to complain to my ISP so that they replace it, it is going to stay.



On others, the router is
restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP.

that's a security exploit that needs to immediately be closed. if they
can do it, so can the bad guys.

They shouldn't.

False.

It is used for remote repairs when people call for assistance, and to
update firmwares, which normal people don't do. The benefits of these
updates and maintenance outweighs the risks. AFAIK, the system has not
been abused over here.

If you trust your provider ... and only with explicit permission.

It is their rules, you sign them when making the contract. They do have your permission, it is somewhere in the book of fine print >:-P


I have found no reason to object. I disabled the normal external access ports, and changed the password, because I use them. But there is still a mode of entry they use, and which I haven't disabled:

TR-069 client - Configuration

WAN Management Protocol (TR-069) allows a Auto-Configuration Server (ACS) to perform auto-configuration, provision, collection, and diagnostics to this device.


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Rob
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: KPN B.V.
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 11:08 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
From: nom...@example.com (Rob)
Subject: Re: ip address
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Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Modern router allow to assign names and symbols to be added to the list
of active and inactive devices.

Well, mine is not that modern.

It is an ISP router, can't replace with my own because the needed
configuration for all services is not documented, so until I have a real
itch to replace it, and find a valid excuse to complain to my ISP so
that they replace it, it is going to stay.

This is forbidden here, they are not allowed to keep such config
info secret and you must be able to choose your own router.

And I think that is the implementation of a EU directive so it should
be the same for you.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 12:22 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 14:22:01 +0200
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On 2022-05-04 13:08, Rob wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Modern router allow to assign names and symbols to be added to the list
of active and inactive devices.

Well, mine is not that modern.

It is an ISP router, can't replace with my own because the needed
configuration for all services is not documented, so until I have a real
itch to replace it, and find a valid excuse to complain to my ISP so
that they replace it, it is going to stay.

This is forbidden here, they are not allowed to keep such config
info secret and you must be able to choose your own router.

And I think that is the implementation of a EU directive so it should
be the same for you.

Obviously it has not been applied.

The config is not secret, you can see it in the router. But they do not publish the requirements, the specs, so using a third party router is complicated.

There are people that do use third party routers.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: ip address
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 12:47 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: ip address
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 08:47:51 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <vg09ki-dkp.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

For instance, there is a
limited number of assignations on home routers.

which is normally much larger than the number of devices people
actually have.

20?

20 devices is nothing.

most routers use a /24 for the lan, for up to 254 devices.

20 devices is less than 10% of the available ip space, with more than
90% remaining to be used.

Sure.

But, for example, I can only reserve 32 fixed addresses on my router.

32 reservations out of 254 leaves 222 remaining to be used.

With a family of four, count four laptops, four phones, four tablets,
two printers, router, access points, game consoles, NAS boxes,
multimedia TVs, chromecast devices, amazon devices, smart speakers,
smart lamps, smart  curtains, security cameras... plus old hardware that
they forgot to remove,

that still doesn't add up to 254 devices, and that's assuming they're
all on all the time.

But it adds up to 32. That's the count, 32, not 255.

you still have 222 left to be used.

also, a lot of iot devices do not have their own ip address. they
connect via a hub (only one ip needed for the hub), bluetooth (direct
between devices but slow) or more recently, thread (fast, and only
needs a border router).

Mine use an IP each.

yours might, but not all do.

hue bulbs, for example, use a hub, which has one ip address, and uses
zigbee to the bulbs. some of the newer bulbs do support bluetooth for
hubless operation, but that is a lot slower and should not be used.

because the routers don't have a field to add a
comment on what is what entry in the list.

yes they do.

Mine doesn't.

others do. yours is an exception.


On others, the router is
restored to factory or tampered remotely by the ISP.

that's a security exploit that needs to immediately be closed. if they
can do it, so can the bad guys.

They shouldn't.

they absolutely should. it's a backdoor waiting to be exploited.

Nope. It is a security service.

it's an exploit waiting to happen.

It is used for remote repairs when people call for assistance, and to
update firmwares, which normal people don't do.

one reason why many routers and other devices auto-update.

That is way dangerous. I have seen none of that.

that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

most routers can auto-update.


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