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computers / comp.sys.mac.misc / Re: Do you use a password manager?

SubjectAuthor
* Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Wade Garrett
|+- Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
|+- Re: Do you use a password manager?Calum
|+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Andy K.
||`- Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
|+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Scott Alfter
||`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lamey
|| +- Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
|| `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
|+- Re: Do you use a password manager?Rich
|+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
|| `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||  +* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
||  |`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||  | `* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
||  |  `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||  |   `* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
||  |    `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||  |     `* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
||  |      `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||  |       +* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
||  |       |`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||  |       | `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
||  |       +- Re: Do you use a password manager?Rich
||  |       +- Re: Do you use a password manager?Scott Alfter
||  |       `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
||  |        `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
||  `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
||   `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
|+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Otto J. Makela
||+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Bob Eager
|||`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
||| `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Bob Eager
|||  `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
|||   `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Bob Eager
||`- Re: Do you use a password manager?Wade Garrett
|`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
| `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
|  +- Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
|  +* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
|  |`- Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
|  +* Re: Do you use a password manager?Richard Kettlewell
|  |`- Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
|  `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
|   `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Jolly Roger
|`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
| `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Jolly Roger
+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Oregonian Haruspex
|`* Re: Do you use a password manager?%
| `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
|`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
| `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
|  `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Unbreakable Disease
|   `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Your Name
|    +- Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
|    +* Re: Do you use a password manager?Bob Eager
|    |`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Your Name
|    | +- Re: Do you use a password manager?Bob Eager
|    | `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
|    +- Re: Do you use a password manager?Otto J. Makela
|    +- Re: Do you use a password manager?Scott Alfter
|    `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
|     `* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
|      `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Dreamer In Colore
|`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Keith Thompson
| `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Ben Bacarisse
|  `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Bob Eager
+* Re: Do you use a password manager?rtr
|+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Your Name
||`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
|| `* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
||  `* Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
||   `* Re: Do you use a password manager?nospam
||    `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Alan Browne
|+* Re: Do you use a password manager?Otto J. Makela
||+- Re: Do you use a password manager?rtr
||`- Re: Do you use a password manager?The Real Bev
|`* Re: Do you use a password manager?Anssi Saari
| `- Re: Do you use a password manager?Lewis
`- Re: Do you use a password manager?Dan Purgert

Pages:1234
Do you use a password manager?

<sch3ep$87h$1@dont-email.me>

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From: unbreaka...@secmail.pro (Unbreakable Disease)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:53:00 +0000
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 by: Unbreakable Disease - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:53 UTC

My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)

Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
you use every month or even less.

I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
one since Windows 95 days.
--
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Re: Do you use a password manager?

<sch9i1$k05$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wad...@cooler.net (Wade Garrett)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:37:35 -0400
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 by: Wade Garrett - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:37 UTC

On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>
> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
> you use every month or even less.
>
> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
> one since Windows 95 days.

I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.

If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
interested.

I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
vendors, healthcare, etc.

I always log out before leaving the house.

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: nospam - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:41 UTC

In article <sch9i1$k05$1@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
wrote:

> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.

most do, but that means syncing between devices will be limited or
non-existent.

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: com.gm...@nospam.scottishwildcat (Calum)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:59:29 +0100
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 by: Calum - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:59 UTC

On 12/07/2021 12:37, Wade Garrett wrote:

> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.

You can certainly do that with 1Password, and it also has the option to
sync to other devices via a shared folder on your LAN. (Although I think
that option only exists on desktop versions, so you wouldn't be able to
sync to your phone that way.)

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: andy.k...@gmail.com (Andy K.)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Andy K. - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:14 UTC

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:37:35 -0400
Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
> > My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
> > anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
> > my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
> > passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
> > login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
> >
> > Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
> > complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
> > you use every month or even less.
> >
> > I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
> > exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
> > one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.
>
> I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
> drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
> vendors, healthcare, etc.
>
> I always log out before leaving the house.
I'm using KeepassX which is purely local, and am very happy with it.
AndyK

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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From: sco...@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter)
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 by: Scott Alfter - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:17 UTC

In article <sch9i1$k05$1@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
>I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
>If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>interested.

KeePass stores its file wherever you tell it. It could be local storage,
storage on a server you control (as on a VPS or a dedicated server), or
whatever cloud storage is supported on the OS you're using. I use a WebDAV
share on a VPS. It's accessible to my phone and my computers, but not to
others. (I suppose Linode could grab the file, but without the password to
unlock it, it's useless to anybody else.)

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Jolly Roger - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:28 UTC

On 2021-07-12, Unbreakable Disease <unbreakable@secmail.pro> wrote:
> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk
> encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>
> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
> you use every month or even less.
>
> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
> one since Windows 95 days.

I don't see anything wrong with using Apple's built-in Keychain password
manager. The only drawback it has is that it's Apple-only, and that has
never been a reason not to use it for me. Most of my family uses it and
is happy with it.

The iCloud Keychain service is optional and seamlessly synchronizes your
password database between all of your Apple devices. It is also highly
encrypted using end-to-end encryption so that it cannot be accessed by
anyone but you.

Others here will recommend cross-platform solutions, but if you have no
need for synchronizing your password database to other platforms,
Apple's built-in Keychain is quite a secure and capable solution, and
it's integrated with all of Apple's operating systems by default.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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 by: Lamey - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:36 UTC

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:17:43 GMT, Scott Alfter
<scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:

>In article <sch9i1$k05$1@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>>
>>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>>> you use every month or even less.
>>>
>>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>>> one since Windows 95 days.
>>
>>I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>
>>If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>>interested.
>
>KeePass stores its file wherever you tell it. It could be local storage,
>storage on a server you control (as on a VPS or a dedicated server), or
>whatever cloud storage is supported on the OS you're using. I use a WebDAV
>share on a VPS. It's accessible to my phone and my computers, but not to
>others. (I suppose Linode could grab the file, but without the password to
>unlock it, it's useless to anybody else.)
>
If it's out there than people can access it if they want.

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: ric...@example.invalid (Rich)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:40:37 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Rich - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:40 UTC

In comp.misc Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.

This one stores everything locally:
https://github.com/zdia/gorilla

There are probably others that do so as well.

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Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Keith Thompson - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:52 UTC

[I don't know why the OP cross-posted to alt.atheism. I've dropped it]

Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> writes:
> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
>> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
>> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway
>> (full-disk encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple
>> passwords you use every month or even less.
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't
>> used one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.
>
> I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
> drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
> vendors, healthcare, etc.
>
> I always log out before leaving the house.

I use PasswordSafe https://pwsafe.org/ .

It's a Windows application with clones available for Android, iOS, and Mac.

There's a Linux version, available as "passwordsafe" in the Ubuntu repos
(and presumably others), but I haven't gotten it to work.

password-gorilla is a Linux application that uses the same file format
and should be available in the package repos for most distributions.

Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: g.kr...@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Lewis - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 19:58 UTC

In message <874kcz5pqn.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> [I don't know why the OP cross-posted to alt.atheism. I've dropped it]

> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> writes:
>> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
>>> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
>>> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway
>>> (full-disk encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple
>>> passwords you use every month or even less.
>>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't
>>> used one since Windows 95 days.
>>
>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.

There is no "allegedly" about the encryption with LastPass, 1password,
or BitWarden. I know all three of these have been certified and tested
by third parties.

Having them on a server makes it simple to sync them to multiple
devices. At least 1Password can be synced manaully, and I would not be
surprised if the others allowed this in some way as well.

>> I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
>> drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
>> vendors, healthcare, etc.

That is a very inefficient system, but it is a lot better than what
some people do. It also encourages patterns of passwords. One of the
main advantages of a manager is truly random passwords.

> I use PasswordSafe https://pwsafe.org/ .

> It's a Windows application with clones available for Android, iOS, and Mac.

> There's a Linux version, available as "passwordsafe" in the Ubuntu repos
> (and presumably others), but I haven't gotten it to work.

> password-gorilla is a Linux application that uses the same file format
> and should be available in the package repos for most distributions.

> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.

And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.

--
Everything you say is so boring, I replace it with dubstep.

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Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Keith Thompson - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 20:15 UTC

Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
> In message <874kcz5pqn.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>> I use PasswordSafe https://pwsafe.org/ .
>
>> It's a Windows application with clones available for Android, iOS, and Mac.
>
>> There's a Linux version, available as "passwordsafe" in the Ubuntu repos
>> (and presumably others), but I haven't gotten it to work.
>
>> password-gorilla is a Linux application that uses the same file format
>> and should be available in the package repos for most distributions.
>
>> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
>
> And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.

Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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 by: nospam - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 20:27 UTC

In article <87zgur47bv.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
> >
> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
>
> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.

and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
the password you need.

computers are there to do work *for* you.

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Keith Thompson - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 20:48 UTC

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:
> In article <87zgur47bv.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
>> >
>> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
>> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
>>
>> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
>> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
>> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
>> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
>
> and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
> the password you need.

Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
sync it.

> computers are there to do work *for* you.

I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
password database. I'm not confident that my method is sufficiently
secure. (Yes, I'm doing "security through obscurity", but only as a
layer on top of other methods.)

I'm comfortable with the amount of manual work my method requires.
Others won't be.

But what do you suggest?

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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 by: nospam - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:14 UTC

In article <87v95f45td.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
> >> >
> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
> >>
> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
> >
> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
> > the password you need.
>
> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
> sync it.

no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.

> > computers are there to do work *for* you.

^^this^^

> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
> password database

you already said how: you manually sync it.

automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.

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Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Keith Thompson - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:43 UTC

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:
> In article <87v95f45td.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
>> >> >
>> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
>> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
>> >>
>> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
>> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
>> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
>> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
>> >
>> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
>> > the password you need.
>>
>> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
>> sync it.
>
> no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.

The solution *I use* is to go back and sync it. It works.

>> > computers are there to do work *for* you.
>
> ^^this^^
>
>> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
>> password database
>
> you already said how: you manually sync it.

There's more to it than that.

> automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
> other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.

I know what "automatically syncing" means. You haven't said anything
about how to do that. (I use Ubuntu, Windows, and Android.)

For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Re: Do you use a password manager?

<scid58$gl1$2@dont-email.me>

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From: unbreaka...@secmail.pro (Unbreakable Disease)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:45:00 +0000
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 by: Unbreakable Disease - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:45 UTC

On 12.07.2021 13:14, Andy K. wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:37:35 -0400
> Wade Garrett wrote:
>
>> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>>
>>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>>> you use every month or even less.
>>>
>>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>>> one since Windows 95 days.
>>
>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>
>> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>> interested.
>>
>> I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
>> drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
>> vendors, healthcare, etc.
>>
>> I always log out before leaving the house.
>
> I'm using KeepassX which is purely local, and am very happy with it.
>
> AndyK
>
I use KeePassXC which is a modernized version of KeepassX. Can be also
cloudified if you put the database on Dropbox (which I don't recommend)
or somewhere else.

--
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Re: Do you use a password manager?

<scid7j$gl1$3@dont-email.me>

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From: unbreaka...@secmail.pro (Unbreakable Disease)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Unbreakable Disease - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:46 UTC

On 12.07.2021 15:36, Lamey wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:17:43 GMT, Scott Alfter
> <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
>
>> In article <sch9i1$k05$1@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>>>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>>>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>>>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>>>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>>>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>>>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>>>> you use every month or even less.
>>>>
>>>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>>>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>>>> one since Windows 95 days.
>>>
>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>>
>>> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>>> interested.
>>
>> KeePass stores its file wherever you tell it. It could be local storage,
>> storage on a server you control (as on a VPS or a dedicated server), or
>> whatever cloud storage is supported on the OS you're using. I use a WebDAV
>> share on a VPS. It's accessible to my phone and my computers, but not to
>> others. (I suppose Linode could grab the file, but without the password to
>> unlock it, it's useless to anybody else.)
>>
> If it's out there than people can access it if they want.
> Hackers are looking out for easy targets, almost nobody is going to
chase Scott Alfter. Too much risk and unknown benefits.

--
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Re: Do you use a password manager?

<scidg7$jnc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: unbreaka...@secmail.pro (Unbreakable Disease)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:51:00 +0000
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 by: Unbreakable Disease - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:51 UTC

On 12.07.2021 15:28, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2021-07-12, Unbreakable Disease <unbreakable@secmail.pro> wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
>> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
>> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk
>> encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I don't see anything wrong with using Apple's built-in Keychain password
> manager. The only drawback it has is that it's Apple-only, and that has
> never been a reason not to use it for me. Most of my family uses it and
> is happy with it.
>
> The iCloud Keychain service is optional and seamlessly synchronizes your
> password database between all of your Apple devices. It is also highly
> encrypted using end-to-end encryption so that it cannot be accessed by
> anyone but you.
>
> Others here will recommend cross-platform solutions, but if you have no
> need for synchronizing your password database to other platforms,
> Apple's built-in Keychain is quite a secure and capable solution, and
> it's integrated with all of Apple's operating systems by default.
>
I need to use my database on both Mac OS and Linux, so I use KeePassXC.
And what if you are left with the Keychain file and Apple goes south?
How you will migrate to KeePassXC? Your file is going to be nothing more
than useless junk, so at least call Apple or e-mail Tim Cook directly at
timcook@apple.com to allow to export Keychain data to other password
managers. I doubt that Apple will listen to us, but trying is better
than simply giving up.

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Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: nospam - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 22:11 UTC

In article <87r1g3439e.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an
> >> >> >> exercise.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> >> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
> >> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> >> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> >> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
> >> >
> >> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
> >> > the password you need.
> >>
> >> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
> >> sync it.
> >
> > no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.
>
> The solution *I use* is to go back and sync it. It works.

except when it doesn't, which you admit happens 'now and then'.

> >> > computers are there to do work *for* you.
> >
> > ^^this^^
> >
> >> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
> >> password database
> >
> > you already said how: you manually sync it.
>
> There's more to it than that.

those details are irrelevant. the fact is that it's manual which means
it's a lot of extra work with the opportunity to screw it up.

i suspect whatever system you're using does not properly handle merges.

> > automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
> > other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.
>
> I know what "automatically syncing" means.

then why not use it?

> You haven't said anything
> about how to do that. (I use Ubuntu, Windows, and Android.)

what's to know? choose a password manager that offers automatic sync.
done.

> For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
> effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
> presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.

what effort? download a new password manager app that offers syncing,
then export passwords from your existing password manager and import
them to the new one. it should take a minute or two.

Re: Do you use a password manager?

<87mtqr402j.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>

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From: Keith.S....@gmail.com (Keith Thompson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:52:20 -0700
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 by: Keith Thompson - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 22:52 UTC

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:
> In article <87r1g3439e.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an
>> >> >> >> exercise.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
>> >> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
>> >> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
>> >> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
>> >> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
>> >> >
>> >> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
>> >> > the password you need.
>> >>
>> >> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
>> >> sync it.
>> >
>> > no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.
>>
>> The solution *I use* is to go back and sync it. It works.
>
> except when it doesn't, which you admit happens 'now and then'.
>
>> >> > computers are there to do work *for* you.
>> >
>> > ^^this^^
>> >
>> >> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
>> >> password database
>> >
>> > you already said how: you manually sync it.
>>
>> There's more to it than that.
>
> those details are irrelevant. the fact is that it's manual which means
> it's a lot of extra work with the opportunity to screw it up.
>
> i suspect whatever system you're using does not properly handle merges.

It does not, and I did run into a problem with that not too long ago.
It took some manual work to resolve it.

>> > automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
>> > other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.
>>
>> I know what "automatically syncing" means.
>
> then why not use it?
>
>> You haven't said anything
>> about how to do that. (I use Ubuntu, Windows, and Android.)
>
> what's to know? choose a password manager that offers automatic sync.
> done.

I've spent *some* time looking into alternatives, but perhaps not
enough. The password manager I use uses a local file. Others I've
looked at store data "in the cloud", i.e., on someone else's computer.
I've decided *for myself* that I don't want to store my passwords in the
cloud, and that I'm willing to pay the price of more difficult local
updates.

>> For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
>> effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
>> presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.
>
> what effort? download a new password manager app that offers syncing,
> then export passwords from your existing password manager and import
> them to the new one. it should take a minute or two.

And install it on all my devices, and learn how to use it -- plus
convincing myself that it's sufficiently secure. Much more than
"a minute or two".

Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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 by: nospam - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 23:18 UTC

In article <87mtqr402j.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an
> >> >> >> >> exercise.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need
> >> >> >> > unless
> >> >> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
> >> >> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> >> >> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> >> >> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
> >> >> > the password you need.
> >> >>
> >> >> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
> >> >> sync it.
> >> >
> >> > no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.
> >>
> >> The solution *I use* is to go back and sync it. It works.
> >
> > except when it doesn't, which you admit happens 'now and then'.
> >
> >> >> > computers are there to do work *for* you.
> >> >
> >> > ^^this^^
> >> >
> >> >> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
> >> >> password database
> >> >
> >> > you already said how: you manually sync it.
> >>
> >> There's more to it than that.
> >
> > those details are irrelevant. the fact is that it's manual which means
> > it's a lot of extra work with the opportunity to screw it up.
> >
> > i suspect whatever system you're using does not properly handle merges.
>
> It does not, and I did run into a problem with that not too long ago.
> It took some manual work to resolve it.
>
> >> > automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
> >> > other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.
> >>
> >> I know what "automatically syncing" means.
> >
> > then why not use it?
> >
> >> You haven't said anything
> >> about how to do that. (I use Ubuntu, Windows, and Android.)
> >
> > what's to know? choose a password manager that offers automatic sync.
> > done.
>
> I've spent *some* time looking into alternatives, but perhaps not
> enough. The password manager I use uses a local file. Others I've
> looked at store data "in the cloud", i.e., on someone else's computer.
> I've decided *for myself* that I don't want to store my passwords in the
> cloud, and that I'm willing to pay the price of more difficult local
> updates.

some store it in the cloud, some store it on a local server. some do
either.

another option is set up a personal cloud hosted on your own hardware,
over which you have full control, which has many other benefits than
just password syncing.

in every case, it's encrypted, so even if someone did gain access to
the database, they won't get the actual passwords, at least not without
a shitload of effort trying to crack it (assuming you used a good
master passphrase).

keep in mind that any of your hardware is lost or stolen, someone will
have easy access to that database, no hacking of cloud servers
required.

nothing is 100% safe.

> >> For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
> >> effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
> >> presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.
> >
> > what effort? download a new password manager app that offers syncing,
> > then export passwords from your existing password manager and import
> > them to the new one. it should take a minute or two.
>
> And install it on all my devices, and learn how to use it -- plus
> convincing myself that it's sufficiently secure. Much more than
> "a minute or two".

true, but that's the easy part. download a bunch, try them out, put in
some random passwords and see which ones fit your workflow.

> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)

there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
your needs.

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: Keith.S....@gmail.com (Keith Thompson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:57:50 -0700
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 by: Keith Thompson - Mon, 12 Jul 2021 23:57 UTC

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:
> In article <87mtqr402j.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
>> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
>> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
>> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
>
> there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
> better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
> your needs.

Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
you use a cloud solution)?

I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want. (One
feature of the Android version of PasswordSave that I like is that it
implements a virtual keyboard, so passwords don't have to go through the
system clipboard.) Someone here mentioned KeePassXC, which I might try,
but I don't see an Android version.

I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
specifically related to passwords.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
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Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: nospam - Tue, 13 Jul 2021 00:25 UTC

In article <87im1f3x1d.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
> >> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
> >> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
> >> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
> >
> > there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
> > better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
> > your needs.
>
> Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
> you use a cloud solution)?

i use 1password and keep everything on my devices, however, it does
sync via the cloud. there is (was) a way to sync locally but that had
some limitations and i'm not sure if that's even still an option.

they also offer a cloud version (their servers) but that's not required.

it does look like they now have linux support but i don't know how good
that is. that's relatively recent.

> I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want. (One
> feature of the Android version of PasswordSave that I like is that it
> implements a virtual keyboard, so passwords don't have to go through the
> system clipboard.) Someone here mentioned KeePassXC, which I might try,
> but I don't see an Android version.

1password has a background process which directly communicates with
browser extension, skipping the clipboard entirely.

some use the system clipboard which is then auto-erased moments later.

> I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
> look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
> specifically related to passwords.

syncthing is good. also check out nextcloud, which can be installed on
a variety of hardware as well as in a docker container or even a
raspberry pi (although that's not exactly fast).

Re: Do you use a password manager?

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From: ric...@example.invalid (Rich)
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Subject: Re: Do you use a password manager?
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 by: Rich - Tue, 13 Jul 2021 01:08 UTC

In comp.misc Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:
>> In article <87mtqr402j.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
>> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
>>> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
>>> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
>>> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
>>
>> there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
>> better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
>> your needs.
>
> Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
> you use a cloud solution)?
>
> I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want. (One
> feature of the Android version of PasswordSave that I like is that it
> implements a virtual keyboard, so passwords don't have to go through the
> system clipboard.) Someone here mentioned KeePassXC, which I might try,
> but I don't see an Android version.
>
> I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
> look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
> specifically related to passwords.

You mentioned password-gorilla in an earlier message. It contains a
"merge" feature that somewhat reduces the burden in manually
maintaining sync across devices.

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