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computers / comp.mobile.android / Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times

SubjectAuthor
* Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
|+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |      +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |      `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||| `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reClifford Heath
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 |||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 || ||  +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking remike
 || ||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |      `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |       `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | | |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |   +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |   |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |    |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |     +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |  +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |     |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |     |     `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || |        | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli

Pages:12345
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:56 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!Gj+613xB9sVIQxAtFideEw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 16:56:16 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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UPDATE

Since I've tentatively concluded, much to my chagrin, that Android did, indeed, completely wipe out _hundreds_ of apps (zoom among them), perhaps because they were GSF apps which didn't like that I changed the supposedly permanent unique GSF ID tracking identification number...  https://i.postimg.cc/X7ZspnsG/gsfid01.jpg You can change the GSF ID
https://i.postimg.cc/YStB48LH/gsfid03.jpg GSF Apps use the GSF ID

I decided to _install_ Zoom (which was easily enough done) and then run the adb commands again to see where it put stuff as an added learning
effort.
https://i.postimg.cc/wBndvc4d/update22.jpg Re-installing Zoom is easy
https://i.postimg.cc/tCzy56Jh/update23.jpg Now let's look where it went

This is where Zoom seems to have installed on Android:
https://i.postimg.cc/MKr5hWsv/update24.jpg Zoom in /data/app/~~{stuff}
https://i.postimg.cc/MKr5hWsv/update24.jpg Zoom in /data/app/~~{stuff}
package:/data/app/~~PzJKYsZQ2ZCx6CppblPgRQ==/us.zoom.videomeetings-zGYsIcaI0d-LZ0jXknyD6A==/base.apk=us.zoom.videomeetings

But something is wrong with my Windows dir /s/a/l/on/b since it didn't
find the installed zoom location for some unknown-to-me-as-yet reason. All it found were six new lines (all of which is the saved APK only).
 C:\> findstr /i /r /c:"^.*zoom" android_filesystem.txt
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\.651004.download-complete
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004

z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004\config.arm64_v8a.apk
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004\config.xhdpi.apk

z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004\us.zoom.videomeetings.apk

Since this experiment of adding just one app is rarely done, here are the
file
size differences between Android minus Zoom and Android with Zoom just now.
 C:\> adb shell pm list packages -f -s > sys_package_location.txt (390L ->
390L)
 C:\> adb shell pm list packages -f    > 3rd_package_location.txt (663L ->
664L)
 C:\> adb shell pm list packages > installed.txt (663L -> 664L)
 C:\> adb shell pm list packages -d > disabled_apps.txt (219L -> 299L)
 C:\> adb shell pm list packages -e > enabled_apps.txt (444L -> 445L)
 C:\> adb shell pm list packages -f -U  > UID.txt (Zoom uid:10588)
 dir /s/a/l/on/b > c:\tmp\android_filesystem.txt (3914L -> 3920L)

In summary, it does appear that migrating from Android 11 to Android 12 actually deleted hundreds of apps, among them zoom, where there's no trace of those apps on Android after the upgrade other than the Nova launcher
saved their location in the well-organized homescreen hierarchy.

Hence re-installing those hundreds of apps is trivial simply because
just tapping on the apps opens up the FOSS google play client to install
the latest version off the Google Play Store repository - or - I can
just as easily slide the APK from Windows over to Android - or - I can
just tap on the saved APK on Android (if I had happened to save it there).

I haven't conclusively proven anything yet as to why the migration of
Android 11 to Android 12 wiped out hundreds of apps, but I suspect it
was simply that the GSF apps misbehaved when they found out that I had
changed the supposedly permanent GSF ID.
--
Usenet is a world-wide team sport where purposefully helpful kind-hearted adults help each other and learn by pooling our individual capabilities.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:57 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!Gj+613xB9sVIQxAtFideEw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 16:57:08 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t5e1vu$186e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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UPDATE:

I learn more about computers by breaking the rules than by following them.
1. It's (only?) GSF apps that are gone after upgrading Android 11 to 12
2. It may be due to the fact I changed the supposedly permanent GSF ID
3. Luckily Nova knows (almost) exactly how to point to the app installer
4. However it's a mystery _how_ Nova knows (almost) exactly which it is
5. Given the app appears to otherwise be wiped completely off the map
6. However Windows, for some reason, doesn't _find_ the installed app
7. And yet, adb on Windows can easily find that newly installed app The main questions that need to be resolved are
a. Why can't Windows "dir" find the installed app when Windows adb can?
b. How does Nova launcher know exactly which app was wiped off the phone?
c. Why should Android upgrades even care about the GSF ID?

Bear in mind there's almost no effort whatsoever in re-installing the
hundreds of missing apps; all the effort is going into trying to figure out
_why_ and _how_ that happened (as a lot of "magic" seems to have occurred).

Since I've tentatively concluded, much to my chagrin, that Android did, indeed, completely wipe out _hundreds_ of apps (zoom among them), perhaps because they were GSF apps which didn't like that I changed the supposedly permanent unique GSF ID tracking identification number...

Every disaster is an opportunity to learn, where, so far, as I'm going
slowly since it's something I look at when I need an app, all the missing
apps were GSF apps, which, for now, fits the hypothesis that they never
tested Android upgrades for the circumstance that the GSF ID changed.

But why would an Android upgrade even _care_ that a GSF ID had changed?
What's it to them?

I decided to _install_ Zoom (which was easily enough done) and then run the adb commands again to see where it put stuff as an added learning effort.
But something is wrong with my Windows dir /s/a/l/on/b since it didn't
find the installed zoom location for some unknown-to-me-as-yet reason. All it found were six new lines (all of which is the saved APK only).
 C:\> findstr /i /r /c:"^.*zoom" android_filesystem.txt
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\.651004.download-complete
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004\config.arm64_v8a.apk
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004\config.xhdpi.apk
 z:\aurora\store\downloads\us.zoom.videomeetings\651004\us.zoom.videomeetings.apk

This is another _new_ learning experience. Why didn't the Windows "dir" command find the zoom installation hierarchy?
Where does Zoom put its installed files if not in the system directory?

Hence re-installing those hundreds of apps is trivial simply because
just tapping on the apps opens up the FOSS google play client to install
the latest version off the Google Play Store repository...

Yet another new learning experience is the fact that the ease of installing
the app is based on "something" (I don't know yet) which is hidden data.

Something about the grayed out icons tells Android exactly which app to
find in the FOSS google play store client... however... in one or two cases
so far, it did _not_ find the right "something" in that client.

So there's yet more "magic" going on that I don't understand about this yet
but it has been a wonderful new learning experience since you can't learn
this stuff without some lab work in destructive testing procedures.
--
I learn more about Android by breaking the rules than by following them.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 17:30 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 19:30:50 +0200
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On 2022-05-10 14:33, nospam wrote:
In article <f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.



--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 18:14 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 14:14:57 -0400
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In article <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

what you saw was a 20-30 *amp* charger. not volts.

20-30 volts (3.3-5v/cell) would destroy a 12v lead acid battery, also
risking explosion, potentially destroying quite a bit more.

feel free to cite a credible reference to the contrary *and* go back to
the garage and take a photo of the charger that you claim was used so
that its specs can be verified.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 19:11 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 21:11:35 +0200
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On 2022-05-10 20:14, nospam wrote:
In article <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

Cite me. I saw it. I am the source.


what you saw was a 20-30 *amp* charger. not volts.

Nope. Volts. Several electronic devices in my car were destroyed.


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 19:18 UTC
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:18:19 -0400
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In article <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

Cite me. I saw it. I am the source.

that's not how citations work. you can't cite yourself.

what you describe is not how lead acid batteries are charged.

take a photo of the charger and/or find one or more links describing it.

what you saw was a 20-30 *amp* charger. not volts.

Nope. Volts. Several electronic devices in my car were destroyed.

again, take a photo of the charger and/or find some links describing it.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 20:58 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 22:58:59 +0200
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On 2022-05-10 21:18, nospam wrote:
In article <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

Cite me. I saw it. I am the source.

that's not how citations work. you can't cite yourself.

I am a witness.


what you describe is not how lead acid batteries are charged.

take a photo of the charger and/or find one or more links describing it.

Nope. It was over a decade ago.

Take my word for it, then you waste your time and find the information. I did that research at the time.
What you get is my recollection.

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 21:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 14:24:51 -0700
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On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Trying to charge a nominal 12V battery at 30 volts would have unexpected consequences. The battery is a huge load with very low internal resistance so in order for the vehicle electronics to be damaged the charger must also have been supplying enormous amounts of current.

You can hook up a small, unregulated,  20V solar panel to keep a non-AGM car battery charged because the current is so low (a fraction of an amp) that as soon as you connect the battery the load drops the output to around 12 volts.



Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 22:12 UTC
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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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In article <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car
battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

Cite me. I saw it. I am the source.

that's not how citations work. you can't cite yourself.

I am a witness.

apparently the only one, since such a device cannot possibly work.

applying 20-30v to a 12v lead acid battery is a *really* bad idea.

what you describe is not how lead acid batteries are charged.

take a photo of the charger and/or find one or more links describing it.

Nope. It was over a decade ago.

it doesn't matter when it was.

all it takes is to find a device that charges 12v lead acid batteries
at 20-30v. it doesn't have to be available for purchase anymore.

let's see its specs, how it works, etc.

note that there are chargers that charge *24v* lead acid batteries at
~29v, except that those batteries are not used in cars, nor would a
garage have such a charger because they'll never encounter such a
vehicle.

24v lead acid batteries (usually two 12v in series) are often found in
scooters, wheelchairs, lawn mowers, etc. they also normally have a
custom connector for the charger.

Take my word for it, then you waste your time and find the information.
I did that research at the time.
What you get is my recollection.

your recollection is not substantive.

find a link or even just an article about the existence of such a
charger.

what is working against your claim are countless links about charging
lead acid batteries at a constant current until the terminal voltage
rises to ~2.4v/cell. i already posted the graph of the various stages.

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and
dangerous thing to do;

exactly why such a device does not exist.

if it did exist, there would be *something* written about it somewhere,
even if it's nothing more than to avoid it.

in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of
my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would
have stopped them. I could have sued them.

a bigger question is how many cars were destroyed by this garage.

you should have sued them for destroying your property as well as the
manufacturer of the mythical charger, because such a charger, if it did
exist, could cause explosions, which would cause all sorts of damage
and injuries, possibly fatal.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 22:12 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 18:12:39 -0400
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In article <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

Trying to charge a nominal 12V battery at 30 volts would have unexpected
consequences.

exactly


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 23:24 UTC
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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 01:24:39 +0200
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On 2022-05-10 23:24, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Nope. Just 12 volt battery, huge garage charger with a setting on "boost" or "super boost" mode.

Something like this, but I don't see documentation on the site:

https://suministrosorozco.com/epages/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70/Products/A807546

The one they used had wheels.


Trying to charge a nominal 12V battery at 30 volts would have unexpected

I think it was rather 20.

consequences. The battery is a huge load with very low internal resistance so in order for the vehicle electronics to be damaged the charger must also have been supplying enormous amounts of current.

Which it did.

CMOS electronics stands 18 volts. Considering that the electronics (the entire display setup) failed maybe two months later, the voltage on the car would have been around 20. The radio survived because it was disconnected. The car was diesel, so no ignition. I think the remote door opener also failed.


The charger was used by someone that was not a full mechanic, but one that was usually on the front desk. A full mechanic would have known that the instructions for that mode say to disconnect the battery from the car because you can fry the electronics. And she did fry the electronics, but unfortunately not instantly, not that minute, so we did not made the connection.

And yes, I did read the documentation, two years later the incident. I found it somewhere, but I do not know the keyword to find it again.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Lewis
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Miskatonic U
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:01 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!kreme.dont-email.me!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: g.kr...@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:01:37 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Miskatonic U
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In message <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-05-10 14:33, nospam wrote:
In article <f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.

I saw it personally.

Do you also have a picture of a stack of books to "prove" it?

You are so entirely STUPIDLY wrong it's not even funny.

--
Adolescence is the period between childhood and adultery


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Lewis
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Miskatonic U
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:03 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!kreme.dont-email.me!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: g.kr...@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:03:49 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Miskatonic U
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In message <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-05-10 20:14, nospam wrote:
In article <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

Cite me. I saw it. I am the source.

No you are not. You are an ignorant fool.

--
A dyslexic walks into a bra...


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:04 UTC
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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 20:04:56 -0400
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In article <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and
dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics
of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I
would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery
charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Nope. Just 12 volt battery, huge garage charger with a setting on
"boost" or "super boost" mode.

those modes are high *current*.

Something like this, but I don't see documentation on the site:


https://suministrosorozco.com/epages/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70.sf/
es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70/Products/A807546>

https://www.telwin.com/en/prodotti/index.html?id=807546&lingua=E
https://www.nonpaints.com/en/telwin-alpine-20-boost-portable-electric-b
attery-charger-12-and-24-volt-18-amp-300-watt>

  € Charging current: 18 A

it's also a 12/24v charger. maybe someone set it to 24v, which would
quickly destroy a 12v battery and anything connected to it that was
expecting only 12v (actually 13.8v when the engine is running).

The one they used had wheels.

most high current chargers do.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61PD7OB6rvS._AC_SL1200_.jpg

Trying to charge a nominal 12V battery at 30 volts would have unexpected

I think it was rather 20.

20 amps, sure.

20 volts, definitely no.

if it was manually set for 24v batteries, it would be ~29v.

here's a graph of charging three types of 12v lead acid batteries. note
that the threshold voltage is slightly different for each, and always
under 15v. double the values for a 24 battery.
https://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/wm-img/WestAdvisor/articles/B
attery-Chargers-2.jpg>


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Lewis
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Miskatonic U
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:08 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!kreme.dont-email.me!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: g.kr...@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:08:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Miskatonic U
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In message <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-05-10 21:18, nospam wrote:
In article <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

Cite me. I saw it. I am the source.

that's not how citations work. you can't cite yourself.

I am a witness.

You are a moron who has no idea what you saw, or is simply making shit
up.

what you describe is not how lead acid batteries are charged.

take a photo of the charger and/or find one or more links describing it.

Nope. It was over a decade ago.

And you got the details wrong.

Take my word for it,

Not a chance in hell. I've seen a lead-acid battery pop its acid when
the wrong voltage charger was used, back in the days when VWs had lower
volt batteries that the standard 12V.

then you waste your time and find the information.

There we go, you cannot find any source to back up your claim.
Congratulations, you have now proved your claim is bullshit.

I did that research at the time.

No you didn't.

What you get is my recollection.

Which is worthless.

--
If women wear a pair of pants, a pair of glasses, and a pair of
earrings, why don't they wear a pair of bras?


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Lewis
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Miskatonic U
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:11 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!kreme.dont-email.me!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: g.kr...@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:11:56 -0000 (UTC)
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In message <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-05-10 23:24, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and
dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics
of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I
would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery
charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Nope. Just 12 volt battery, huge garage charger with a setting on
"boost" or "super boost" mode.

That is AMPS that are boosted, you numpty moron, not volts.

Something like this, but I don't see documentation on the site:

https://suministrosorozco.com/epages/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70/Products/A807546

Translation:

Battery chargers for charging free electrolyte (WET) batteries with 12/24 V voltage, protection against overloads and inversions
of polarity. Equipped with an ammeter and normal, fast load selector (BOOST) and ammeter.

And:

Charging current 18 A (12 V) 12 A (24 V)

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Wuh, I think so, Brain, but wouldn't anything lose its flavor on the
bedpost overnight?"


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 00:49 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 17:49:59 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 32
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On 5/10/2022 4:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-10 23:24, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Nope. Just 12 volt battery, huge garage charger with a setting on "boost" or "super boost" mode.

Something like this, but I don't see documentation on the site:

https://suministrosorozco.com/epages/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70/Products/A807546

Ah, your confusion is that "Boost" doesn't increase the voltage being used, it increases the current to a level great enough to start the vehicle even when there is a dead battery loading down the electrical system. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DM34RLH At 250 amps you can pretty much start any vehicle, even one where the vehicle's battery has close to zero internal resistance.

I have an SUV that I don't drive very often. If I let the battery run down completely I can't even start it with a 50 amp booster, I have to charge the battery for a while (or use a Li-Ion jumper battery which is able to provide a large amount of current for a short time).


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Bob F
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 02:17 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 19:17:05 -0700
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On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-10 21:18, nospam wrote:
In article <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Fast charging a lead acid battery means supplying it with a high
voltage, maybe 20 or 30 volts, much more than what the battery can
absorb. If the car is not disconnected, that voltage reaches the car
itself.

I've never heard of high-voltage charging of lead-acid batteries, at
least not beyond 2.5 volts per cell (14.8V for a six cell car battery).

I have.

where have you heard that?

citations required.


I saw it personally.

that's not a citation, nor did you see that.

Cite me. I saw it. I am the source.

that's not how citations work. you can't cite yourself.

I am a witness.


what you describe is not how lead acid batteries are charged.

take a photo of the charger and/or find one or more links describing it.

Nope. It was over a decade ago.

Take my word for it, then you waste your time and find the information. I did that research at the time.
What you get is my recollection.

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would have stopped them. I could have sued them.


So, what you seem to be saying is that you managed to find some clown with bad theory and a huge power supply that you then let destroy the electronics on your car.

Quite a reference!

It's a good thing nobody else fell for this scam.




Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 09:42 UTC
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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:42:25 +0200
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On 2022-05-11 02:11, Lewis wrote:
In message <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-05-10 23:24, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and
dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics
of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I
would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery
charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Nope. Just 12 volt battery, huge garage charger with a setting on
"boost" or "super boost" mode.

That is AMPS that are boosted, you numpty moron, not volts.

Plonk


--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 09:50 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:50:15 +0200
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On 2022-05-11 02:49, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 4:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-10 23:24, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Nope. Just 12 volt battery, huge garage charger with a setting on "boost" or "super boost" mode.

Something like this, but I don't see documentation on the site:

https://suministrosorozco.com/epages/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70/Products/A807546


Ah, your confusion is that "Boost" doesn't increase the voltage being used, it increases the current to a level great enough to start the vehicle even when there is a dead battery loading down the electrical system. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DM34RLH At 250 amps you can pretty much start any vehicle, even one where the vehicle's battery has close to zero internal resistance.

No.

This is charging the battery, not starting the car. When the battery is sufficiently charged, the battery is connected back to the car, and you try to start it.

Second.

To increase the amps going to the battery, you have to increase the voltage given by the charger. There is no other way. Of course, the transformer and rectifier must be able to maintain the voltage at the current that results.


Stop going round what I said. It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it very fast.

Maybe you don't use this method over in your country. Maybe they decided it is not worth it, because it destroys batteries and cars if misused. Even if not.




--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 15:54 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 08:54:06 -0700
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On 5/11/2022 2:50 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-11 02:49, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 4:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-05-10 23:24, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2022 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

You will not find current information because it is an incorrect and dangerous thing to do; in fact, it destroyed part of the electronics of my car. But I did not know what they were doing at the time or I would have stopped them. I could have sued them.

I don't know where that repair shop would have found such a battery charger unless they were using a 24V charger on a 12V battery.

Nope. Just 12 volt battery, huge garage charger with a setting on "boost" or "super boost" mode.

Something like this, but I don't see documentation on the site:

https://suministrosorozco.com/epages/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2efc024d-9b23-4ccc-92e1-bcfa345cea70/Products/A807546



Ah, your confusion is that "Boost" doesn't increase the voltage being used, it increases the current to a level great enough to start the vehicle even when there is a dead battery loading down the electrical system. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DM34RLH At 250 amps you can pretty much start any vehicle, even one where the vehicle's battery has close to zero internal resistance.

No.

This is charging the battery, not starting the car. When the battery is sufficiently charged, the battery is connected back to the car, and you try to start it.

Second.

To increase the amps going to the battery, you have to increase the voltage given by the charger. There is no other way. Of course, the transformer and rectifier must be able to maintain the voltage at the current that results.

That is untrue. If anything increasing the voltage decreases the current. But the reality is that the voltage on battery chargers is regulated so it does not exceed the maximum safe voltage. For charging lead-acid batteries you'd be hard-pressed to find any high-current charger that goes over 15 volts for a 12 volt battery. The "boost" setting increases the current so the car can be started from the charger, which isn't possible from a charger that is supplying only 2 amps or 10 amps (the two common settings on small chargers).

Stop going round what I said. It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it very fast.

Sorry, but what you have stated makes no sense, including your belief that the only way to increase the current to the battery can only be achieved by increasing the voltage. Constant voltage/constant current (CVCC) is the best way to charge lead-acid batteries, CV is the second-best way.

Maybe you don't use this method over in your country. Maybe they decided it is not worth it, because it destroys batteries and cars if misused. Even if not.

It is not used in any country.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 16:08 UTC
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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:08:03 -0400
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In article <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Ah, your confusion is that "Boost" doesn't increase the voltage being
used, it increases the current to a level great enough to start the
vehicle even when there is a dead battery loading down the electrical
system. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DM34RLH At 250 amps you can
pretty much start any vehicle, even one where the vehicle's battery has
close to zero internal resistance.

No.

yes.

the above description is correct.

This is charging the battery, not starting the car. When the battery is
sufficiently charged, the battery is connected back to the car, and you
try to start it.

some people do disconnect the battery, usually because it's easier to
charge it indoors where there are mains outlets, however, that's
optional and has nothing to do with what you describe.

Second.

there is no first, let alone second. stop digging.

To increase the amps going to the battery, you have to increase the
voltage given by the charger. There is no other way. Of course, the
transformer and rectifier must be able to maintain the voltage at the
current that results.

nope. that is completely wrong.

Stop going round what I said. It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

so fast that the battery is destroyed in the process, possibly more if
it explodes.

Maybe you don't use this method over in your country. Maybe they decided
it is not worth it, because it destroys batteries and cars if misused.
Even if not.

lead acid batteries do not care what country they're in.

charging is based on electrical theory, not geography.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
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Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 16:08 UTC
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Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
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In article <t5gm6v$pr6$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:


To increase the amps going to the battery, you have to increase the
voltage given by the charger. There is no other way. Of course, the
transformer and rectifier must be able to maintain the voltage at the
current that results.

That is untrue.

yep, it's completely wrong.

If anything increasing the voltage decreases the
current. But the reality is that the voltage on battery chargers is
regulated so it does not exceed the maximum safe voltage.

that is not the reality.

lead acid battery chargers regulate the *current*, at least for the
initial bulk charge phase.

For charging
lead-acid batteries you'd be hard-pressed to find any high-current
charger that goes over 15 volts for a 12 volt battery.

actually, it's very common to go above 15v as part of a restoration
cycle (see link below).

The "boost"
setting increases the current so the car can be started from the
charger, which isn't possible from a charger that is supplying only 2
amps or 10 amps (the two common settings on small chargers).

small chargers are generally 1-4 amps. the smallest ones are 1/2a for
trickle/maintenance charging.

Stop going round what I said. It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

Sorry, but what you have stated makes no sense, including your belief
that the only way to increase the current to the battery can only be
achieved by increasing the voltage. Constant voltage/constant current
(CVCC) is the best way to charge lead-acid batteries, CV is the
second-best way.

the best way is multistage, initially constant current (bulk), followed
by constant voltage (absorption), and finally with a trickle charge to
keep it topped off (float).

one example:
https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/022514-CTEK-
battery-charger-3-chart-633x360.jpg>

Maybe you don't use this method over in your country. Maybe they decided
it is not worth it, because it destroys batteries and cars if misused.
Even if not.

It is not used in any country.

correct.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 00:38 UTC
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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 17:38:16 -0700
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On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:50:15 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

Nope.  Applying momentary high voltage to a lead-acid battery is one
way to break up the layer of lead sulfide that has coated the plates
because the battery sat around too long in a discharged state.
Momentarily "zapping" the battery does a tolerable job of breaking off
the lead sulfide.  However, if donw too much or too often, such as
trying to charge the battery at excessive voltages and currents, the
lead sulfide will fall to the bottom of the plate frame and eventually
produce a short between plates. 

High voltage or current charging can also cause problems is the 6
cells of the typical lead acid battery are not equalized.  Presumably,
if such a "brutal" overcharge is necessary, it's a fair assumption
that at least one of the cells is at a very low voltage point and
possibly shorted.  I've managed to boil off the electrolyte and
produce hydrogen gas doing that when I was young and stupid.


--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 01:52 UTC
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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 18:52:06 -0700
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On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:38:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
(...)

A bit more. 

Most of todays "lead acid" batteries are really lead calcium
batteries.  They're mostly the same but with some subtle differences:
"Difference Between Lead Acid and Calcium Batteries"
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-lead-acid-and-calcium-batteries/

There are also differences between "gel cells" and AGM batteries. Most
of today VRLA batteries are AGM batteries:
"What is the Difference Between AGM and GEL Batteries"
https://www.differencebetween.com/what-is-the-difference-between-agm-and-gel-batteries/

When following advice on charging and discharging a battery, make sure
that the advice applies to the specific type of battery, and not
something else.

--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


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