Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  nodelist  faq  login

Calm down, it's *____only* ones and zeroes.


computers / comp.mobile.android / Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times

SubjectAuthor
* Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
|+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
|`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -John McGaw
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |      +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |      `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Wade Garrett
 ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 ||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||| `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reClifford Heath
 |||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 |||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli
 ||+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 |||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || ||`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || || +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || || `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequentlyChris
 || ||  +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || ||  +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||  |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking remike
 || ||  `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -AJL
 || |+* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || ||`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |     +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |     `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |      `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |       `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |+- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | | +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | | |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |   +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |   |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |    |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 || |        | | |     +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |`* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     | `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |  +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     |  `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |     |   `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reJeff Liebermann
 || |        | | |     |    `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || |        | | |     |     `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | |     `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking renospam
 || |        | | +- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        | | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Bob F
 || |        | `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || |        `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Lewis
 || +* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -sms
 || `- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Carlos E.R.
 |`- Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -Jolly Roger
 `* Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking reAndy Burnelli

Pages:12345
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 14:45 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 07:45:47 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <t5j6is$fht$1@dont-email.me>
References: <g3unki-jk.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5bk64$f9c$1@dont-email.me>
<f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520220833044483%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me>
<nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me>
<nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
<qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 14:45:48 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="044f5eee811fbccb9406feb3e4af3bb2";
logging-data="15933"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18vILXULkJ0GGoMpCpfp6aq"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:VbOITNPpaI/kIlvRW9E3Oq3HSoA=
In-Reply-To: <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com>
Content-Language: en-US
View all headers
On 5/11/2022 5:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:50:15 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

Nope.  Applying momentary high voltage to a lead-acid battery is one
way to break up the layer of lead sulfide that has coated the plates
because the battery sat around too long in a discharged state.
Momentarily "zapping" the battery does a tolerable job of breaking off
the lead sulfide.  However, if donw too much or too often, such as
trying to charge the battery at excessive voltages and currents, the
lead sulfide will fall to the bottom of the plate frame and eventually
produce a short between plates.

That's the theory anyway.

There are a bunch of chargers out there that will zap the battery with high-voltage/low-current pulses in an effort remove some sulfation. There's little evidence that this does much of anything.

I experimented with this with an AGM battery out of my vehicle that was not holding a charge. I repeatedly measured the capacity using a 25A load to discharge the battery, then charged it using the "reconditioning feature." The RC (Reserve Capacity) went from 30 minutes to 54 minutes (after many cycles), but that’s still less than half of the 118 minutes or so RC for a new D23 battery. Also, it’s possible that just the repeated deep-discharge/recharge cycles would have achieved the same increase in reserve capacity without the pulse mode being activated. See https://i.imgur.com/rRV4lH8.jpg for the setup.

Since it was an AGM battery, and sealed, I could not open it up to do this procedure https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/lead-acid-battery-reconditioning-with-epsom-salt.1199266/#post-31331059 which, as the text states: "With the plates "de-sulfated" to some degree, they will re-acquire some percentage of their lost storage capacity. It's not a total cure-all, but it can indeed give some life extension to old lead acid batteries." If you recall "VX-6" sold by places like JC Whitney, it was just magnesium sulfate, but the procedure described in the link would have better success than just adding magnesium sulfate. It's a lot of work, and you also need to buy some battery electrolyte to do the procedure properly.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 03:45 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 22:45:52 -0500
From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 20:45:52 -0700
Message-ID: <hrir7h1842prhmoccece4gckmrokj8nvpk@4ax.com>
References: <f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520220833044483%nospam@nospam.invalid> <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid> <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <t5j6is$fht$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 75
X-Trace: sv3-23wcPWdrFYa6RwSGPPSnfE4d89DAaYvBcVsqtuG8fM1xgLm3EwkkWQ/qeSV0oj20oRPLczUO0gcvf6A!Z+dKiLKPJ6BoQFXyQ0lXn1fMwGkwcLQYq34hkbrPzreuppHlZYkD+LtfsMBmjijha4JuSYyKqbEt!C2Rqz6I=
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 5426
X-Received-Bytes: 5548
View all headers
On Thu, 12 May 2022 07:45:47 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

On 5/11/2022 5:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:50:15 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

Nope.  Applying momentary high voltage to a lead-acid battery is one
way to break up the layer of lead sulfide that has coated the plates
because the battery sat around too long in a discharged state.
Momentarily "zapping" the battery does a tolerable job of breaking off
the lead sulfide.  However, if donw too much or too often, such as
trying to charge the battery at excessive voltages and currents, the
lead sulfide will fall to the bottom of the plate frame and eventually
produce a short between plates.

That's the theory anyway.

I didn't mention anything about whether "zapping" worked.  I was just
trying to distinguish between *MOMENTARY* zapping and applying a
*brutal voltage* to the battery.  Momentary might work, but continuous
overcharging is guaranteed to do something disgusting.  In my case, I
have two white formica covered lab benches, both of which have tan
colored acid burns from where the blew the side out of the battery and
hot acid leaked out.

There are a bunch of chargers out there that will zap the battery with
high-voltage/low-current pulses in an effort remove some sulfation.
There's little evidence that this does much of anything.

I experimented with this with an AGM battery out of my vehicle that was
not holding a charge. I repeatedly measured the capacity using a 25A
load to discharge the battery, then charged it using the "reconditioning
feature." The RC (Reserve Capacity) went from 30 minutes to 54 minutes
(after many cycles), but that’s still less than half of the 118 minutes
or so RC for a new D23 battery. Also, it’s possible that just the
repeated deep-discharge/recharge cycles would have achieved the same
increase in reserve capacity without the pulse mode being activated. See
https://i.imgur.com/rRV4lH8.jpg for the setup.

Since it was an AGM battery, and sealed, I could not open it up to do
this procedure
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/lead-acid-battery-reconditioning-with-epsom-salt.1199266/#post-31331059
which, as the text states: "With the plates "de-sulfated" to some
degree, they will re-acquire some percentage of their lost storage
capacity. It's not a total cure-all, but it can indeed give some life
extension to old lead acid batteries." If you recall "VX-6" sold by
places like JC Whitney, it was just magnesium sulfate, but the procedure
described in the link would have better success than just adding
magnesium sulfate. It's a lot of work, and you also need to buy some
battery electrolyte to do the procedure properly.

Here's a guaranteed to work method of raising a battery from the dead:
"Brilliant technique of lead acid battery restoration"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNGg0P7B5fI (11:22)
"Amazing Restoration Technique of an Old Lead Acid Battery"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I0IAwOIwXo (10:49)
"Dead Old Battery Restoration - How To Repair Battery"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gka20Vwp9rk (19:15)
"Amazing Technique of Making Lead Acid Battery Plates & Restoring a
Dead Battery"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdMWBv8kAo0 (14:34)
The last URL has some contact info:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Home-Improvement/Mughal-Battery-Service-903845953074983/


--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Carlos E.R.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 13:59 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 15:59:28 +0200
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
References: <g3unki-jk.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5bk64$f9c$1@dont-email.me>
<f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520220833044483%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me>
<nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me>
<nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
<qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net frxOXeOtP3Wb754thRh5kAYPduqN7V91Mny20VHF+mO29eKoDm
X-Orig-Path: Telcontar.valinor!not-for-mail
Cancel-Lock: sha1:AuzgUnf8n47L8X6FM8usRbwFGzE=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.8.0
Content-Language: en-CA
In-Reply-To: <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com>
View all headers
On 2022-05-12 02:38, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:50:15 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

Nope.  Applying momentary high voltage to a lead-acid battery is one
way to break up the layer of lead sulfide that has coated the plates
because the battery sat around too long in a discharged state.
Momentarily "zapping" the battery does a tolerable job of breaking off
the lead sulfide.  However, if donw too much or too often, such as
trying to charge the battery at excessive voltages and currents, the
lead sulfide will fall to the bottom of the plate frame and eventually
produce a short between plates.

Well, it was not "momentary", the thing was connected for something like a quarter an hour.

I'm sure that the charger had a rate limiter, though.

The problem was that the "mechanic" was not sufficiently familiar with the thing. She should have called one of the proper mechanics instead of trying to do it herself, but being close to closing hour they were probably leaving the premises at that time. I was there to pay and collect the car after routine servicing at the end of their day.

They would have known that to use the fast charging mode the battery has to be removed from the car, or the high voltage applied destroys the electronics - which did happen, but months later. An slow fault. And long after that I chanced to read documentation for a similar charger, and indeed they said this.


High voltage or current charging can also cause problems is the 6
cells of the typical lead acid battery are not equalized.  Presumably,
if such a "brutal" overcharge is necessary, it's a fair assumption
that at least one of the cells is at a very low voltage point and
possibly shorted.  I've managed to boil off the electrolyte and
produce hydrogen gas doing that when I was young and stupid.

If that were the case, they would have noticed the situation earlier and installed a new battery on the spot. I was having the car serviced for "everything" that the book said had to be done periodically. Apparently they "tested" the battery, and they discharged it too much. Bad on them, too.

The idea of this quick charge was so that I could leave and get a new battery promptly - which I did. Just not from them.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 16:32 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 11:32:18 -0500
From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 09:32:19 -0700
Message-ID: <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>
References: <f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520220833044483%nospam@nospam.invalid> <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid> <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 111
X-Trace: sv3-d21sdJOulpt/mJNWjzwnr9OZ5axmcPK5/F2+qH5ZQL6o8p/mT0Jb1QjLEs4Q8p+BJWmXmes9PB8tD8g!Q8UNKZSlqWVi760FQqDZgAC5ONd5K7/EyTRKNjPcoD61ga/F4d4eAO7BQUs/HYt2ylCGpRUYM3YJ!zUF+nAo=
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 7260
View all headers
On Sat, 14 May 2022 15:59:28 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-05-12 02:38, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2022 11:50:15 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

Nope.  Applying momentary high voltage to a lead-acid battery is one
way to break up the layer of lead sulfide that has coated the plates
because the battery sat around too long in a discharged state.
Momentarily "zapping" the battery does a tolerable job of breaking off
the lead sulfide.  However, if donw too much or too often, such as
trying to charge the battery at excessive voltages and currents, the
lead sulfide will fall to the bottom of the plate frame and eventually
produce a short between plates.

Well, it was not "momentary", the thing was connected for something like
a quarter an hour.

I'm sure that the charger had a rate limiter, though.

Well, you know the approximate voltage.  Instead of about 14V, the
charger was delivering about 20V.  You also know the current that was
being drawn, which should appear on the ammeter on the charger.  My
guess would be 10 to 30 amps.  Total power would be in the range of
200 to 600 watts.  Now, where did this power go?  It wasn't dissipated
inside the charger in some kind of rate limiter (also known as a
regulator) because it was measured outside the charger with the
battery attached.  Therefore, the battery had to deal with 200 to 600
watts, which is could only convert to heat.  I'll call it 400 watt
hours to make the arithmetic easier.  The battery was charged for 1/4
of an hour, so that's 100 watt-hours or 0.36MJ (Mega-Joules).  That's
about what it takes to boil a liter of water.

The problem was that the "mechanic" was not sufficiently familiar with
the thing.

If she used an automotive battery charger that was similar to the
monster charger I used when working at an auto dealer, it has two
general settings.  The lowest charge rates are properly regulated and
the charger will do its best not to blow anything up.  The other is
the "start" position, where the regulator is bypassed, and the full DC
power available is applied to the battery.  This is used to start a
car when there is no spare starter battery available.  The switch is
spring loaded to underscore that it should be used momentarily, not
continuously. 

Some examples.  Sorry about the focus problem:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#img=dead-battery-chargers.jpg
If you look at the labels, these will show 10/2/55 maps.  The 55 is
the "start" position.  Incidentally, all these died when left to
charge batteries at a radio site.  The regulator failed by shorting,
causing the battery to boil off the electrolyte.  I took the photo
just before hauling all of them to the dump for recycling as eWaste.

She should have called one of the proper mechanics instead of
trying to do it herself, but being close to closing hour they were
probably leaving the premises at that time. I was there to pay and
collect the car after routine servicing at the end of their day.

Well.  Haste usually creates waste.  So, what are you going to do to
prevent something similar from happening again?  I suggest beginning
with understanding how batteries and chargers operate. 

They would have known that to use the fast charging mode the battery has
to be removed from the car, or the high voltage applied destroys the
electronics - which did happen, but months later. An slow fault. And
long after that I chanced to read documentation for a similar charger,
and indeed they said this.

Good point.  20V on the electrical system of a car is not a good idea.
I think 15.5V is the official maximum, but I suspect they're designed
to handle momentary overloads.

High voltage or current charging can also cause problems is the 6
cells of the typical lead acid battery are not equalized.  Presumably,
if such a "brutal" overcharge is necessary, it's a fair assumption
that at least one of the cells is at a very low voltage point and
possibly shorted.  I've managed to boil off the electrolyte and
produce hydrogen gas doing that when I was young and stupid.

If that were the case, they would have noticed the situation earlier and
installed a new battery on the spot. I was having the car serviced for
"everything" that the book said had to be done periodically. Apparently
they "tested" the battery, and they discharged it too much. Bad on them,
too.

Older automobile electrical system testers used a carbon pile load.
Basically, a big resistor.  Modern testers use an active load.  Both
get rather hot when testing a battery.  They usually include a spring
loaded "test" switch to prevent leaving it on and setting fire to the
tester.  A good battery will usually survive, while the shop burns to
the ground.  Notice the spring return toggle switch:
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-3180-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000F5HU6C/

The idea of this quick charge was so that I could leave and get a new
battery promptly - which I did. Just not from them.

Sigh.  Notice that the name of my domain is, LearnByDestroying.com.
One doesn't really understand how things work until after they've
destroyed and fixed it.

--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 17:01 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 13:01:08 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <140520221301083814%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520220833044483%nospam@nospam.invalid> <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid> <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="bf72894b45d328cc892e1e1323234312";
logging-data="27420"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18MFlMGB40RIiRaYdFhtI+A"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:0fgHeJnM+I23okKDnmMuIyvh+RU=
View all headers
In article <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Older automobile electrical system testers used a carbon pile load.
Basically, a big resistor.

they did, except that those are now obsolete.

Modern testers use an active load.  Both
get rather hot when testing a battery.

nope. modern testers do not get warm, let alone hot.

they perform an instantaneous check which measures cold cranking amps
(cca), internal resistance, health (soh), state of charge (soc) and
more.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71mjeZjNQMS._AC_SL1500_.jpg
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71w0q0qP13L._AC_SL1200_.jpg
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/618nFOfH+7L._AC_SL1000_.jpg

They usually include a spring
loaded "test" switch to prevent leaving it on and setting fire to the
tester.  A good battery will usually survive, while the shop burns to
the ground.  Notice the spring return toggle switch:
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-3180-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000F5HU6C/

old school.

The idea of this quick charge was so that I could leave and get a new
battery promptly - which I did. Just not from them.

Sigh.  Notice that the name of my domain is, LearnByDestroying.com.
One doesn't really understand how things work until after they've
destroyed and fixed it.

there's no need to destroy things to learn, although it's easy to
destroy stuff without learning anything.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 17:01 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 13:01:10 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <140520221301103948%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <g3unki-jk.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5bk64$f9c$1@dont-email.me> <f3rpki-c6t.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520220833044483%nospam@nospam.invalid> <b3kqki-flc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid> <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="bf72894b45d328cc892e1e1323234312";
logging-data="27420"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX194PFRQG+1qW4opyt/brye0"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:QJM2qAgMYCTybMov9zJUhGnTrSg=
View all headers
In article <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

It is exactly what I said, a lead-acid
charger that provides a *brutal voltage* to the battery to charge it
very fast.

Nope.  Applying momentary high voltage to a lead-acid battery is one
way to break up the layer of lead sulfide that has coated the plates
because the battery sat around too long in a discharged state.
Momentarily "zapping" the battery does a tolerable job of breaking off
the lead sulfide.  However, if donw too much or too often, such as
trying to charge the battery at excessive voltages and currents, the
lead sulfide will fall to the bottom of the plate frame and eventually
produce a short between plates.

Well, it was not "momentary", the thing was connected for something like
a quarter an hour.

then it wasn't 'brutal voltage'. if it was, the battery would have been
destroyed long before that.

as you've been told by numerous people, a fast charger is high
*current*, not high voltage, and stops when the voltage reaches a
threshold, about 14.4v, depending on which type of battery it is
(flooded, agm, gel, etc.).

I'm sure that the charger had a rate limiter, though.

it did, to limit the *current*.

The problem was that the "mechanic" was not sufficiently familiar with
the thing. She should have called one of the proper mechanics instead of
trying to do it herself, but being close to closing hour they were
probably leaving the premises at that time. I was there to pay and
collect the car after routine servicing at the end of their day.

that describes negligence, which means you have/had the makings of a
lawsuit.

They would have known that to use the fast charging mode the battery has
to be removed from the car,

the battery does not need to be removed for fast charging, although it
can be if its more convenient to do so, such as a lack of mains outlets
near the vehicle (e.g., street parking).

or the high voltage applied destroys the
electronics - which did happen, but months later.

if the failure occurred months later, then it wasn't anything they did.

damage due to high voltage would have been immediate, certainly not
'months later'.

it sounds like there were other electrical issues in the vehicle, which
would have happened anyway.

An slow fault. And
long after that I chanced to read documentation for a similar charger,
and indeed they said this.

if it's the charger you previously linked, that was high *current*.

we're still waiting for *any* link to a 12v car battery charger that
supplies 20-30 volts or documentation of why that would be beneficial
and not destroy anything.

High voltage or current charging can also cause problems is the 6
cells of the typical lead acid battery are not equalized.  Presumably,
if such a "brutal" overcharge is necessary, it's a fair assumption
that at least one of the cells is at a very low voltage point and
possibly shorted.  I've managed to boil off the electrolyte and
produce hydrogen gas doing that when I was young and stupid.

If that were the case, they would have noticed the situation earlier and
installed a new battery on the spot. I was having the car serviced for
"everything" that the book said had to be done periodically. Apparently
they "tested" the battery, and they discharged it too much. Bad on them,
too.

unless you saw what tests they did and what the results were, there's
no way to be sure whether the battery was weak (likely), electrical
issues in the vehicle (also likely, given your description of a delayed
failure) or if they were lying (possible, but nowhere near as common as
people think).

The idea of this quick charge was so that I could leave and get a new
battery promptly - which I did. Just not from them.

quick charge is high *current*.

it is *not* high voltage.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 18:18 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 13:18:06 -0500
From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 11:18:07 -0700
Message-ID: <ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com>
References: <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid> <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com> <140520221301083814%nospam@nospam.invalid>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 75
X-Trace: sv3-nTiMBdLYp1lvuuuhZAdSMXe0ojvDpHRjMJlq5TWYnlHgqjW0ooJVrCdZIOmLaUSkDsJx1BnLfpCOdSm!MzAwFNkC0gJpbJdZ3Z9ETnd/cybU5/1B9Fl5vwgmYX7oWFJDmHMqATAS2syRJw0yOcwhTuNarmqn!JcT+FKQ=
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 4647
View all headers
On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:01:08 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

In article <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Older automobile electrical system testers used a carbon pile load.
Basically, a big resistor.

they did, except that those are now obsolete.

The mechanic who works on my 2001 Subaru has one with a carbon pile
load.  I know because I've repaired it a few times.  Several of the
auto shops that I frequent also have ancient chargers.  Sorry to
report, but the old stuff doesn't just disappear.

Modern testers use an active load.  Both
get rather hot when testing a battery.

nope. modern testers do not get warm, let alone hot.

they perform an instantaneous check which measures cold cranking amps
(cca), internal resistance, health (soh), state of charge (soc) and
more.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71mjeZjNQMS._AC_SL1500_.jpg
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71w0q0qP13L._AC_SL1200_.jpg
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/618nFOfH+7L._AC_SL1000_.jpg

Yep.  I totally forgot about ESR battery testers.  I use an ESR meter
to testing batteries.  However, it was made for testing capacitors,
not batteries.  Thanks for the correction.

I also have a battery discharge tester:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/LiPo/Ultrafire%2018650%20test.jpg
The graphs it produces are far better than anything produced on a
typical ESR tester.  For example:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/battery-tests/18650.jpg
I don't have the optional large heat sink and load necessary to test
automobile batteries.  However, it does well for testing and matching
LiIon cells:
http://www.westmountainradio.com/cba.php

They usually include a spring
loaded "test" switch to prevent leaving it on and setting fire to the
tester.  A good battery will usually survive, while the shop burns to
the ground.  Notice the spring return toggle switch:
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-3180-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000F5HU6C/

old school.

Guilty as charged.  I'm 74 years old and officially retired.  I borrow
one of these when I need one.
https://www.harborfreight.com/100a-612v-battery-load-tester-61747.html

Incidentally, someone possibly in this newsgroup, mentioned that none
of my test equipment was newer than about 1985.  That's really old
school:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/test-equip-mess.jpg
I wouldn't mind having the latest and greatest, but if the old stuff
works, it's good enough.

there's no need to destroy things to learn, although it's easy to
destroy stuff without learning anything.

True.  However, the cost of destroying something tends to reinforce
the learning experience.  Incidentally, the slogan came from my
college days, where the school motto was "Learn by Doing". 


--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 21:13 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 17:13:52 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <140520221713523633%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid> <70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com> <140520221301083814%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="bf72894b45d328cc892e1e1323234312";
logging-data="3900"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+U9mOZ6yv6kO38WJxTXpIS"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ckUvtwnCtd5mwxkv8Jv1/qMBO20=
View all headers
In article <ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Older automobile electrical system testers used a carbon pile load.
Basically, a big resistor.

they did, except that those are now obsolete.

The mechanic who works on my 2001 Subaru has one with a carbon pile
load.  I know because I've repaired it a few times.  Several of the
auto shops that I frequent also have ancient chargers.  Sorry to
report, but the old stuff doesn't just disappear.

they might not disappear, but it does mean that those mechanics do not
have modern tools. there's also old-school think that's resistant (no
pun intended) to change.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 04:48 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 21:48:58 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <t5q0nt$pg0$1@dont-email.me>
References: <100520221414574572%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<70qqki-02f.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me>
<nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me>
<nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
<qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com>
<07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
<3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>
<140520221301083814%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 04:49:02 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="9d0d5bd84f22bae8014367e86681bfb1";
logging-data="26112"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+nY48x9Wf5h4dpS3tGAgvW"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:nSAr8OAJlMwKbalNxj++z/VO21o=
In-Reply-To: <ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com>
Content-Language: en-US
View all headers
On 5/14/2022 11:18 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:01:08 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

In article <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Older automobile electrical system testers used a carbon pile load.
Basically, a big resistor.

they did, except that those are now obsolete.

The mechanic who works on my 2001 Subaru has one with a carbon pile
load.  I know because I've repaired it a few times.  Several of the
auto shops that I frequent also have ancient chargers.  Sorry to
report, but the old stuff doesn't just disappear.

In the olden days they used a high-wattage/low-ohm resistor, like 0.5 ohms at 300 watts to cause the battery to put out about 25 amps (though as the voltage fell the current fell slightly). You time how long the battery takes to fall to 10.5 volts and then you have the reserve capacity. The resistor gets very hot of course.

A more accurate way to measure RC is to keep the load at 25 amps. You can design an active load using multiple MOSFETs. Of course those get hot as well, and you need to heat sink them well and distribute the load between multiple devices.

For all intents and purposes, a high-wattage resistor is sufficient for testing the reserve capacity of a lead-acid battery. DC load and AC conductance tests only take a few seconds but they don't give any indication of reserve capacity. There is little, if any, correlation between the internal resistance of a battery and reserve capacity.






Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 22:12 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 23:12:59 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t5rtsj$6cj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t510ud$2t9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j0697h54tjhs33lpatuvfmpr6gfnjc5ogk@4ax.com> <t53fmp$l1h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <796b7htpk2cr7v6el16h3firad87mtt9he@4ax.com> <t54smd$17mm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b7e786e8-106b-4314-abbd-c80c42dfed9cn@googlegroups.com> <t5c1pb$145r$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1u9$1768$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1vu$186e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="6547"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
View all headers
Andy Burnelli wrote:

Bear in mind there's almost no effort whatsoever in re-installing the
hundreds of missing apps; all the effort is going into trying to figure out
_why_ and _how_ that happened (as a lot of "magic" seems to have occurred).

Today I wrote a tutorial which shows an _easy_ way to install even hundreds of apps from Windows to Android over Wi-Fi using the command line.

Tutorial: *Working examples using Android/Windows adb over Wi-Fi*
The documentation below is designed to be as cut-&-paste as possible.

This tutorial assumes you already installed adb & enabled USB debugging.
https://source.android.com/setup/build/adb
Note this was tested WITHOUT the Android SDK; it just needs "adb.exe".

Android 11 and up allows adb connections purely over Wi-Fi (with no initial or continued need for USB cables) which allows mirroring
over Wi-Fi using any of a variety of free & FOSS tools such as:
a. Vysor b. Scrcpy c. Microsoft Phone Link plus Microsoft/Samsung Link to Windows

Those local/remote mirror tools are described in gory detail here:
 *What free software do you use to locally mirror Android over Windows*
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/eMYBmpq2H50

 *What free software do you use to remotely control Android over Windows*
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/7toIA9mxX4o/m/DAmq_Z4PAgAJ

While screen mirroring is fantastic, what this tutorial focuses on is
using the Android Debug Bridge (adb) commands over Wi-Fi from Windows.

Prior to Android 11, if the user wished to use adb with Android over Wi-Fi, the adb connection had to be initially _established_ over a USB cable. There is much information about that problem set, only summarized below.
1. C:\> adb kill-server (optional, but it helps for a starting point)
2. Connect the Android phone to USB (mandatory on Android 10 & below).
3. Connect to the Android phone over USB.
   C:\> adb connect
   Or
   C:\> adb reconnect
   You should see an output of something like:
    * daemon not running; starting now at tcp:5037
    * daemon started successfully
      reconnecting ABCDEFGHIJK [device]
4. C:\> adb tcpip 5555
   You want one of these two show up:
    restarting in TCP mode port: 5555
   Or...
    * daemon not running; starting now at tcp:5037
    * daemon started successfully
      restarting in TCP mode port: 5555
   Not this:
     * daemon not running; starting now at tcp:5037
     * daemon started successfully
       error: no devices/emulators found
   But you might get this if you started from scratch      * daemon not running; starting now at tcp:5037
     * daemon started successfully
       error: device unauthorized.
       This adb server's $ADB_VENDOR_KEYS is not set
       Try 'adb kill-server' if that seems wrong.
       Otherwise check for a confirmation dialog on your device.
   If you do, just press "Allow" & "Remember" on the phone when it asks.
5. At this point you can disconnect the USB cable (or leave it connected).
6. To connect over Wi-Fi, this always works at this stage in the process.
   C:\> adb connect 192.168.0.2
   Or, if you're a stickler for details, specifying the port works too.
   C:\> adb connect 192.168.0.2:5555
   In either case, you want to see this:
        connected to 192.168.0.2:5555
7. At this point you are completely connected:
   C:\> adb devices
   That should output either this (if you left the USB connected).
    List of devices attached
    ABCDEFGHIJ     device
    192.168.0.2:5555       device
   Or this (if you disconnected the USB already).
    List of devices attached
    192.168.0.2:5555       device

However, as of Android 11 and up, it's now possible to pair your Android phone to your over Wi-Fi Windows computer without ever needing a USB cable.

That instantly negates the need for the workaround above, detailed below.
 *Android Studio wireless ADB error (10061)*
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37267335/android-studio-wireless-adb-error-10061
That 5-year old wireless/usb workaround was updated on Oct 4, 2021.

Here's a description of the new adb Wi-Fi capabilities in Android 11+
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/new-adb-make-process-simple-easy/
 "If you're on Android 11 (with SDK platform tool version 30 or greater)   and above, you can use wireless debugging to pair your device with the   computer. This Wi-Fi pairing method uses a new adb command called 'pair'   which works similar to how Bluetooth pairing works."

The _new_ command sequence to pair Windows adb to Android over Wi-Fi is:
A. Optionally, start at a known default starting point on Windows.
   C:\> adb kill-server B. Optionally, start at a known default starting point on Android.
   Settings > Developer options > Revoke USB debugging authorizations
C. Make sure these Android 11+ settings are turned on.
   Settings > Developer options > USB debugging = On
   Settings > Developer options > Wireless debugging = On
   Optionally:
   Settings > Developer options > Disable adb authorization timeout = On

Then, to connect Windows adb to your Android 11+ phone over Wi-Fi:
https://developer.android.com/studio/command-line/adb#connect-to-a-device-over-wi-fi-android-11+
1. Long press on Android "Developer options > Wireless debugging" settings.
2. Press the "Pair device with pairing code" option item.
   This will report something like the following information:
    Pair with device: Wi-Fi six-digit pairing code: 123456
    IP address & Port: 192.168.0.2:54321
3. C:\> adb pair 192.168.0.2:54321 123456
   You should see something like this on the phone:
    Successfully paired to 192.168.0.2:54321 [guid=adb-{serial number}]
4. C:\> adb connect 192.168.0.2:54321

Now you can issue adb commands from Windows over Wi-Fi to an Android phone.
 C:\> adb devices
      That should report the devices that adb is connected to, for example:
       List of devices attached
       192.168.0.2:54321      device

 C:\> adb shell netstat
      That should list the phone's TCP/IP connectivity tables.

 C:\> adb shell service list       That should list all the running services on the phone.

 C:\> adb shell ps       That should list all the running processes on the phone.

 C:\> adb shell ifconfig
      That should provide your Android network interface information.

 C:\> adb shell "cd /sdcard/Download && ls"
      That should list files in your internal storage Download folder.

 C:\> adb shell "cd /sdcard && mkdir temp"
      That should create a "temp" directory in your internal
      storage sdcard on your Android phone.

 C:\> adb shell screencap -p /sdcard/temp/screenshot.png
      That should snap a screenshot of your android phone & store it
      in the newly created temp folder on the Android phone.

 C:\> adb shell screenrecord /sdcard/temp/screenrecord.mp4
      Do whatever on the Android phone & then press Ctrl+C to end.
      That should create an MP4 recording of your Android screen.

 C:\> adb install "C:\path-to\filename.apk"
      That should install the APK from Windows over Wi-Fi onto Android.
      (Note this is useful when you have hundreds of apps like I do!)
      https://i.postimg.cc/bN875p8b/apk01.jpg Windows APK archive

 C:\> adb push "C:\path-to\filename.apk" /sdcard/Download
      That should copy the named file from Windows to Android &       (in this case) put it in your internal storage "Download" folder.

      Note that each phone OEM "can" use a different filespec for       internal & external sdcards (e.g., /storage/emulated/0/Download).

Click here to read the complete article
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Jeff Liebermann
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 01:26 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 20:26:42 -0500
From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 18:26:42 -0700
Message-ID: <bq838h9e4lc0clu1003k9edu7tl0n24daj@4ax.com>
References: <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com> <140520221301083814%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com> <t5q0nt$pg0$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 58
X-Trace: sv3-sKS0Agyd7eVgg6+wYHglaywd4WSJ4E2YSf/V4f2IKbQh4NlCxBejrVaMB3h3un4Q2UEwpIjAPAXfEe1!CF3Bp/p0v6TYBxqkDSs3YGE5IvQSE7JAe2mElrk6BJcYgYImx3R8gOL81nWpIudAhE9/HUqqZ5cB!gQyXWZs=
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 4043
View all headers
On Sat, 14 May 2022 21:48:58 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

On 5/14/2022 11:18 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 13:01:08 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

In article <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Older automobile electrical system testers used a carbon pile load.
Basically, a big resistor.

they did, except that those are now obsolete.

The mechanic who works on my 2001 Subaru has one with a carbon pile
load.  I know because I've repaired it a few times.  Several of the
auto shops that I frequent also have ancient chargers.  Sorry to
report, but the old stuff doesn't just disappear.

In the olden days they used a high-wattage/low-ohm resistor, like 0.5
ohms at 300 watts to cause the battery to put out about 25 amps (though
as the voltage fell the current fell slightly). You time how long the
battery takes to fall to 10.5 volts and then you have the reserve
capacity. The resistor gets very hot of course.

I found the docs to the load tester the my mechanic uses.  It's a Sun
VAT-40:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/Sun%20VAT-40/
https://www.google.com/search?q=sun+vat-40&tbm=isch
Besides the battery, it also tests the alternator, starter, regulator,
gauges, and parts of the electrical system.  The battery load is an
adjustable carbon pile.

A more accurate way to measure RC is to keep the load at 25 amps. You
can design an active load using multiple MOSFETs.

Yep.  That's what the more modern shop use.  An active load is much
better than a carbon pile.

Of course those get
hot as well, and you need to heat sink them well and distribute the load
between multiple devices.

For all intents and purposes, a high-wattage resistor is sufficient for
testing the reserve capacity of a lead-acid battery. DC load and AC
conductance tests only take a few seconds but they don't give any
indication of reserve capacity. There is little, if any, correlation
between the internal resistance of a battery and reserve capacity.

I don't have much experience with automotive ESR testers.  The few
times I tried one, I found that a discharge curve test was much
better.
--
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: sms
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 02:07 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently -
checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 19:07:55 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <t5sblr$iqn$2@dont-email.me>
References: <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me>
<nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me>
<nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
<qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com>
<07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
<3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com>
<140520221301083814%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com> <t5q0nt$pg0$1@dont-email.me>
<bq838h9e4lc0clu1003k9edu7tl0n24daj@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 02:07:55 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="bb7c33b35729e1fc7f7736df871cdf14";
logging-data="19287"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+DkijwSZDIIn00nbaZHDLq"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:buykgaHbegPWacffNxzhCczZDRk=
In-Reply-To: <bq838h9e4lc0clu1003k9edu7tl0n24daj@4ax.com>
Content-Language: en-US
View all headers
On 5/15/2022 6:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

I don't have much experience with automotive ESR testers.  The few
times I tried one, I found that a discharge curve test was much
better.

Testing the resistance and conductance can tell you if the battery is bad. But that can't tell you what the reserve capacity is.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: nospam
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 02:41 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 22:41:56 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <150520222241561795%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <100520221518192708%nospam@nospam.invalid> <j90rki-r9k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5el75$d1f$1@dont-email.me> <nq8rki-p6s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <t5f17o$bpb$1@dont-email.me> <nfdski-qv7.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <qpko7h91nhq9pbfrb8jepfgmmn2i2773b3@4ax.com> <07p4li-60g.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <3rjv7htsgmnt4dp2jboaqkqhr2saoj7ue9@4ax.com> <140520221301083814%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ccrv7h5m15mnvvroctm4upfslbao81i2ba@4ax.com> <t5q0nt$pg0$1@dont-email.me> <bq838h9e4lc0clu1003k9edu7tl0n24daj@4ax.com> <t5sblr$iqn$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="abee3391dbc33b19b24909f000314667";
logging-data="31489"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19GXBXaE2sIA/NRk78LTw1h"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:jzndZuHFTC7+IGsPW12jBvGUdys=
View all headers
In article <t5sblr$iqn$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

Testing the resistance and conductance can tell you if the battery is
bad.

that's the point.

But that can't tell you what the reserve capacity is.

some do, however, it's a parameter that is not particularly important
for cars. it's also not something that's measured by carbon pile load
testers.

https://www.cadex.com/products/spectro-ca-12-battery-rapid-tester


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 23:12 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 00:12:29 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t66is4$s39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t510ud$2t9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j0697h54tjhs33lpatuvfmpr6gfnjc5ogk@4ax.com> <t53fmp$l1h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <796b7htpk2cr7v6el16h3firad87mtt9he@4ax.com> <t54smd$17mm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b7e786e8-106b-4314-abbd-c80c42dfed9cn@googlegroups.com> <t5c1pb$145r$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1u9$1768$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1vu$186e$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5rtsj$6cj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="28777"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
View all headers
Andy Burnelli wrote:

 C:\> adb shell am start -n com.google.android.gms/.ads.settings.AdsSettingsActivity
      That should pop up an Android "Reset Advertising ID" settings page.

 C:\> adb shell input tap 500 400
      If run after the command above, that will tap the button to       asking to "Opt out of Ads Personalization" in that Activity
      if that button is like mine, at the X=500 & Y=400 location.

      On my phone, this is the "Reset advertising ID" button location:
        adb shell input tap 500 200
      On my phone, this is the "OK" button on that GUI above.
        adb shell input tap 700 1000

For the record, for anyone attempting to reset the Android Advertising ID
from Windows, Android 11 and below would reset the id to a GUID, or
globally unique ID, (similar to what Windows 95 CoCreateGUID created,
according to Mayayana's kind advice on the Android newsgroup today).\
https://i.postimg.cc/0NhFk5J2/adid01.jpg Doubletap to Reset AD ID  https://i.postimg.cc/qq4MPH3W/adid02.jpg Set doubletap to any Activity
https://i.postimg.cc/t4YpKqZ2/adid03.jpg Calling an Intent with a URI
https://i.postimg.cc/X7vb5j84/adid04.jpg Calling an Intent with a GUI

However, notice in Android 12 the GUID at times is set to all zeroes.
https://i.postimg.cc/nhNNQvNN/adid07.jpg Check Advertising ID

We surmised that's because there are two new commands in Android  Settings > {Privacy,Google} > Ads > Reset advertising ID
 Settings > {Privacy,Google} > Ads > Delete advertising ID <== new!
 Settings > {Privacy,Google} > Ads > Get new advertising ID <== new!
https://i.postimg.cc/XvqM5CSd/adid06.jpg Delete Advertising ID

Apparently "delete" isn't so much a delete as a "zero out" such that the
GUID is of the form (8-4-4-4-12) of 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000.

This program is the only known program in all of Google Play that is known
to report that Advertising ID outside of the Android Settings GUI.   *Device   Identifiers* by Umang Chamaria
  Free, ad free, Google free, GSF free, rated 3.8, 5K+ installs
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.utility.identifydevice

But it's a crappy program otherwise as that's its only real job
(still, it's the _only_ one anyone knows about that does that).

These are better for reporting most of the identification IDs on Android.
  *DevCheck Hardware and System Info* by flar2
  Free + inapp, ad free, Google free, gsf free, rated 4.8, 1M+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=flar2.devcheck

 *Device ID* by Evozi
  Free, ad free, Google free, GSF free, rated 4.5, 1M+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evozi.deviceid

 *Inware* by evowizz
  Free, ad free, Google free, gsf free, rated 4.4, 100K+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evo.inware

 *Device Info HW* by Andrey Efremov
  Free, ad free, Google free, gsf free, rated 4.7, 1M+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.andr7e.deviceinfohw

 *Device ID* by BINHDRM26
  Free, ad free, Google free, gsf free, unrated, 10K+ installs
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.binhdrm.deviceid

 *Device Identifiers* by Umang Chamaria (this gets the advertising ID)
  Free, ad free, Google free, GSF free, rated 3.8, 5K+ installs
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.utility.identifydevice

Unfortunately, I haven't found one app which gives you everything you need.

If you can find an app that does all that we need, that would be great, as it would be nice, for example, to have all the critical versions spit out by a single app.
 Android Security Patch Level version
 Google Play Services version
 Google Play Store version
 Google Play System update version
 Android Device ID
 Google Services Framework ID
 Google Advertising ID
 Java VM Android Runtime version  Media DRM Widevine CDM Device Unique ID
 Hardware Serial Number
 Device Build Fingerprint
 etc.
--
Usenet allows purposefully helpful people to pool their experiences.


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 02:12 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 03:12:36 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t66tdr$1sd0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t510ud$2t9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j0697h54tjhs33lpatuvfmpr6gfnjc5ogk@4ax.com> <t53fmp$l1h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <796b7htpk2cr7v6el16h3firad87mtt9he@4ax.com> <t54smd$17mm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b7e786e8-106b-4314-abbd-c80c42dfed9cn@googlegroups.com> <t5c1pb$145r$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1u9$1768$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1vu$186e$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5rtsj$6cj$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t66is4$s39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="61856"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
View all headers
Andy Burnelli wrote:

C:\> adb shell pm list packages
      That should list all the packages installed on your Android phone.

 C:\> adb shell pm list packages | findStr /i "facebook"
      That should list all the packages with that string in their name.

 C:\> adb shell dumpsys package com.facebook.appmanager
      This should list an app's components, activities & services, etc.

 C:\> adb shell pm list permissions | FindStr facebook
      This should list all permissions granted for that particular app.
  C:\> adb shell pm revoke com.facebook.appmanager android.permission.READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE
      This should revoke the stated permissions from that app.

 C:\> adb shell pm grant com.facebook.appmanager android.permission.READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE
      This should grant the stated permissions to that app.

Has anyone here used WebDav to mount Android onto Windows as a drive over
Wi-Fi?
If so, can _you_ see your Android external sdcard from Windows over Wi-Fi?

I can't.
I can see _everything_ else (including the root filesystem!) but not the sd
card.
(Note I'm not rooted but that shouldn't matter to see the sd card, should
it?)

I attempted these permission-addition commands because the Windows Wi-Fi
mount of the Android file system as a drive doesn't access the external
sdcard yet.
 C:\> net use Z: \\192.168.0.2@8080\DavWWWRoot

I also tried adding a login/password of (foo/bar) but that didn't matter.
 C:\> net use Z: \\192.168.0.2@8080\DavWWWRoot /USER:foo bar

And I tried specifying the root directory:
 C:\> net use Z: \\192.168.0.2@8080\storage\emulated\0 /USER:foo bar
 C:\> net use Z: \\192.168.0.2@8080\storage\0000-0001 /USER:foo bar

At least not when using this free WebDav server on Android to mount Android
as a drive letter onto Windows over Wi-Fi using that Windows "net use" command.
 *WebDAV Server* by The Olive Tree

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.webdavserver

The problem I'm having with Android 12 connecting to Windows is that I can
set the WebDav server root to anything I want to in the WebDav server GUI:
https://i.postimg.cc/sxzR0Pg8/webdav01.jpg Mount Android over Wi-Fi

But from Windows I can see everything on Android (including the root file
system) except what is on the external sdcard (even though, on Android, I can easily see what's on the external sdcard).

Using this adb tutorial to check if permissions are the problem, I run:
 C:\> adb shell pm list packages | findstr "webdav"
      package:com.zq.webdav.app_free <== this is ad free but more complex
      package:com.theolivetree.webdavserver <== this is the one I'm using
 To list its permissions I can run this but it didn't find any permissions.
 C:\> adb shell pm list permissions | FindStr
"com.theolivetree.webdavserver"

This "might" grant it permission to read external storage:
 C:\> adb shell pm grant com.theolivetree.webdavserver
android.permission.READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE

But, unfortunately, even though I can see the Android root file system from Windows (with Android being a drive letter), I can't see the external
sdcard for some reason. What's odd is I can see literally everything _except_ the external sdcard
from Windows with Android mounted as a drive letter over Wi-Fi.

Has anyone here used WebDav to mount Android onto Windows as a drive over
Wi-Fi?
If so, can _you_ see your Android external sdcard from Windows over Wi-Fi?

In summary, the situation is thus for mounting Android to Windows over
Wi-Fi:
a. I'm not rooted (and yet I can see the root file system) as a drive
letter.
b. The WebDav server _says_ it will mount Android over Wi-Fi as a drive
letter.
c. But _only_ the external sdcard will not show up in that Windows mount.

Why?
What's the solution?


Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 20:53 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 21:53:11 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t6bjf0$1o7k$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t510ud$2t9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j0697h54tjhs33lpatuvfmpr6gfnjc5ogk@4ax.com> <t53fmp$l1h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <796b7htpk2cr7v6el16h3firad87mtt9he@4ax.com> <t54smd$17mm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b7e786e8-106b-4314-abbd-c80c42dfed9cn@googlegroups.com> <t5c1pb$145r$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1u9$1768$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1vu$186e$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5rtsj$6cj$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t66is4$s39$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t66tdr$1sd0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="57588"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
View all headers
Big Al wrote:

Could you have mounted both the internal and external storage using two drive letters Z: and Y:?

SOLVED!

Thank you for that purposefully helpful kind & astute suggestion!
https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg Both sdcards mounted

Following up on your excellent advice, I mounted the entire internal sdcard
over Wi-Fi as Windows drive letter Y: using one Android webdav server set
up to use port 8080... While simultaneously mounting the external sdcard over Wi-Fi as Windows
drive letter Z: using another Android webdav server over port 8081...
I don't follow a lot of what you did but find it interesting you could do it, not that I would though.  What I can get off my phone with a simple cable works for me.

A USB cable is fine, and, in fact, works great for file transfer.
but it doesn't act like a Windows drive letter, nor an Android mirror.

a. This mounts the internal sdcard as a drive over wifi on Windows:
   C:\> net use Z: \\192.168.0.2@8080\DavWWWRoot /user:foobar snafu

b. This mounts the external sdcard as a drive over wifi on Windows:
  C:\> net use Z: \\192.168.0.2@8081\DavWWWRoot /user:foobar snafu

c. This pairs Android to Windows over wifi for mirroring & control:
   C:\> adb pair 192.168.0.2:54321 123456

Here is the result, where I don't know if it gets any better than this!
https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg Both sdcards mounted

I do have a file explorer app on the phone that is in itself a web server and when started you can go to the http address the app displays and browse your files if you want to do it over wi-fi. 

Again you bring up a GREAT question, of whether a WebDav server is
the same thing or if it's completely different from an HTTP server.

I don't know. Does anyone here know how a WebDAV server differs
from a plain old HTTP server? Are they one and the same?

If they're the same thing, all you need to do to make your Android
phone (or iOS phone for that matter) a drive letter over Wi-Fi is run those "NET USE" commands listed above.

 Of course all of what I'm able to do is not at the lowest level of the phones file structure.  I see no OS of any kind.

What I see is the entire Android phone from Windows over Wi-Fi, at least as far as I know, but I only have write permission to the sections of the phone that you'd expect to write to.

As far as I know, you can't get much more power than I have now.

Congrats though.

Thanks. I hope others benefit from the knowledge and I very much appreciate that you helped me solve the problem of _simultaneous_
access to both the internal and external sdcard, thanks to you!

Here are some of the screenshots for those interested in this power!
(They're in reverse order as that's where the success is in the end!)

WebDav:
https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg Both sdcards mounted
https://i.postimg.cc/Njm6ZXsc/webdav05.jpg Permissions are the same
https://i.postimg.cc/3xCsd4HX/webdav04.jpg My Files has permission  https://i.postimg.cc/BvmRBrbt/webdav03.jpg File Manager has permission
https://i.postimg.cc/X7FS61HD/webdav02.jpg X-plore has no permission
https://i.postimg.cc/sxzR0Pg8/webdav01.jpg WebDav has no sd permission

Vysor:
https://i.postimg.cc/XqrD5Hqm/vysor29.jpg Removing Apple iTunes crap
https://i.postimg.cc/KYbVWDp3/vysor28.jpg Nuking Apple shitware 1 by 1
https://i.postimg.cc/MGbkZFfY/vysor27.jpg The bloatware is everywhere
https://i.postimg.cc/hP6R2xqV/vysor26.jpg iTunes crapware won't install
https://i.postimg.cc/fTy57WSY/vysor25.jpg Best iOS drivers installed
https://i.postimg.cc/3wmtyL46/vysor24.jpg Apple Device working properly
https://i.postimg.cc/tCvS8nGr/vysor23.jpg iPad is connected to Win10
https://i.postimg.cc/Kz7pW9mL/vysor22.jpg Apple Win10 iOS drivers suck
https://i.postimg.cc/QdVPMkqG/vysor21.jpg Apple iPad on Win10 over USB  https://i.postimg.cc/J7cSYhhg/vysor20.jpg Classic Apple error 2502
https://i.postimg.cc/yxP5DL5B/vysor19.jpg Classic Apple error 2503
https://i.postimg.cc/V6X28fWJ/vysor18.jpg Apple Mobile Device Support
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqB1wF9F/vysor17.jpg Install Apple AMDS engine
https://i.postimg.cc/Jzdf3dhz/vysor16.jpg Classic Apple Error Code 2503
https://i.postimg.cc/c4TyCJyY/vysor15.jpg Apple Mobile Device Support
https://i.postimg.cc/SRhF22xL/vysor14.jpg Connect over the Internet
https://i.postimg.cc/bv4jPFXB/vysor13.jpg Vysor Camera virtual webcam
https://i.postimg.cc/sg6r6gTy/vysor12.jpg Vysor easily finds Android
https://i.postimg.cc/wxL9qHjc/vysor11.jpg Vysor searches for Android/iOS
https://i.postimg.cc/XvPnJY5x/vysor10.jpg Vysor Windows Virtual Camera
https://i.postimg.cc/2S2zsw8s/vysor09.jpg Classic Apple Error code 2503
https://i.postimg.cc/yYCYcxbb/vysor08.jpg Apple Mobile Device Support  https://i.postimg.cc/Y2WCvYbF/vysor07.jpg iOS requires Apple AMDS kluge
https://i.postimg.cc/ydJYXZKw/vysor06.jpg Remote mirror over the net
https://i.postimg.cc/d0V03fxQ/vysor05.jpg Vysor Internet mirroring
https://i.postimg.cc/XY3qSqKC/vysor04.jpg Vysor ADB USB setup switches
https://i.postimg.cc/v8gc5pHc/vysor03.jpg Vysor remote sharing
https://i.postimg.cc/V6TPYG3h/vysor02.jpg Vysor console operation
https://i.postimg.cc/QNwjsCDM/vysor01.jpg Vysor Android/iOS PC mirroring

Note: Android always works whereas iOS always sucks by way of comparison.

Scrcpy:
https://i.postimg.cc/mrz6gJpC/scrcpy23.jpg Android SMS/MMS on Windows
https://i.postimg.cc/c4Wq5x9j/scrcpy22.jpg Vysor IP address option
https://i.postimg.cc/9FJMKYch/scrcpy21.jpg Windows Drive: === Android
https://i.postimg.cc/Y9jbTtcN/scrcpy20.jpg Start /b as a CMD works! :)
https://i.postimg.cc/3R6nTz7s/scrcpy19.jpg Start /b TARGET fails :(
https://i.postimg.cc/Y93b1z0n/scrcpy18.jpg Free Automation APKs  https://i.postimg.cc/bvRXdbxg/scrcpy17.jpg AutoIT & IFFT & Automate
https://i.postimg.cc/5NrK7jtg/scrcpy16.jpg powershell hide-console trick
https://i.postimg.cc/g2yNftw0/scrcpy15.jpg Trick to pin batch shortcut
https://i.postimg.cc/XqZsmVFM/scrcpy14.jpg AppPath & shortcut TARGET
https://i.postimg.cc/CxXH6N2r/scrcpy13.jpg No scrcpy console window!

Click here to read the complete article
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
From: Andy Burnelli
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, sci.electronics.repair
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 21:28 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!f89aI4yUvu19u2u4kqjtCA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,sci.electronics.repair
Subject: Re: Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 22:28:05 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t6blgd$hhg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t510ud$2t9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j0697h54tjhs33lpatuvfmpr6gfnjc5ogk@4ax.com> <t53fmp$l1h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <796b7htpk2cr7v6el16h3firad87mtt9he@4ax.com> <t54smd$17mm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b7e786e8-106b-4314-abbd-c80c42dfed9cn@googlegroups.com> <t5c1pb$145r$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1u9$1768$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5e1vu$186e$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5rtsj$6cj$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t66is4$s39$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t66tdr$1sd0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t6bjf0$1o7k$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="17968"; posting-host="f89aI4yUvu19u2u4kqjtCA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
View all headers
Can interfacing a smartphone to Windows get any better than this?
https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg

Today I solved _all_ the problems I had run into, thanks to the advice from
other helpful intelligent people such as Andy Burns, Herbert Kleebauer, Big Al, et. al, all of whom are who make Usenet a valuable adult
conversation where ideas are exchanged so we all benefit from the result.

1. Over Wi-fi
2. Using only widely available free tools
3. I can now easily mount the _entire_ Android device
4. both the internal sdcard (including the root partitions!)
5. and the external sdcard, simultaneously, 6. each as their own Windows drive letter 7. while at the same time being able to mirror the Android phone
8. and control the Android phone using the mouse & keyboard
9. while simultaneously sharing the two clipboards between them
10. And being able to slide files back and forth at will

My question to the group at large simply is whether there is anything else
that we could possibly want in terms of complete Android/Windows sharing?

Note all of this is done
a. WITHOUT any login to anything!
b. WITHOUT any connection to the Internet!
c. WITHOUT paying a penny for tools

Does it get any better than that?

WebDav:
https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg Both sdcards mounted
https://i.postimg.cc/Njm6ZXsc/webdav05.jpg Permissions are the same
https://i.postimg.cc/3xCsd4HX/webdav04.jpg My Files has permission  https://i.postimg.cc/BvmRBrbt/webdav03.jpg File Manager has permission
https://i.postimg.cc/X7FS61HD/webdav02.jpg X-plore has no permission
https://i.postimg.cc/sxzR0Pg8/webdav01.jpg WebDav has no sd permission

Vysor:
https://i.postimg.cc/XqrD5Hqm/vysor29.jpg Removing Apple iTunes crap
https://i.postimg.cc/KYbVWDp3/vysor28.jpg Nuking Apple shitware 1 by 1
https://i.postimg.cc/MGbkZFfY/vysor27.jpg The bloatware is everywhere
https://i.postimg.cc/hP6R2xqV/vysor26.jpg iTunes crapware won't install
https://i.postimg.cc/fTy57WSY/vysor25.jpg Best iOS drivers installed
https://i.postimg.cc/3wmtyL46/vysor24.jpg Apple Device working properly
https://i.postimg.cc/tCvS8nGr/vysor23.jpg iPad is connected to Win10
https://i.postimg.cc/Kz7pW9mL/vysor22.jpg Apple Win10 iOS drivers suck
https://i.postimg.cc/QdVPMkqG/vysor21.jpg Apple iPad on Win10 over USB  https://i.postimg.cc/J7cSYhhg/vysor20.jpg Classic Apple error 2502
https://i.postimg.cc/yxP5DL5B/vysor19.jpg Classic Apple error 2503
https://i.postimg.cc/V6X28fWJ/vysor18.jpg Apple Mobile Device Support
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqB1wF9F/vysor17.jpg Install Apple AMDS engine
https://i.postimg.cc/Jzdf3dhz/vysor16.jpg Classic Apple Error Code 2503
https://i.postimg.cc/c4TyCJyY/vysor15.jpg Apple Mobile Device Support
https://i.postimg.cc/SRhF22xL/vysor14.jpg Connect over the Internet
https://i.postimg.cc/bv4jPFXB/vysor13.jpg Vysor Camera virtual webcam
https://i.postimg.cc/sg6r6gTy/vysor12.jpg Vysor easily finds Android
https://i.postimg.cc/wxL9qHjc/vysor11.jpg Vysor searches for Android/iOS
https://i.postimg.cc/XvPnJY5x/vysor10.jpg Vysor Windows Virtual Camera
https://i.postimg.cc/2S2zsw8s/vysor09.jpg Classic Apple Error code 2503
https://i.postimg.cc/yYCYcxbb/vysor08.jpg Apple Mobile Device Support  https://i.postimg.cc/Y2WCvYbF/vysor07.jpg iOS requires Apple AMDS kluge
https://i.postimg.cc/ydJYXZKw/vysor06.jpg Remote mirror over the net
https://i.postimg.cc/d0V03fxQ/vysor05.jpg Vysor Internet mirroring
https://i.postimg.cc/XY3qSqKC/vysor04.jpg Vysor ADB USB setup switches
https://i.postimg.cc/v8gc5pHc/vysor03.jpg Vysor remote sharing
https://i.postimg.cc/V6TPYG3h/vysor02.jpg Vysor console operation
https://i.postimg.cc/QNwjsCDM/vysor01.jpg Vysor Android/iOS PC mirroring

Scrcpy:
https://i.postimg.cc/mrz6gJpC/scrcpy23.jpg Android SMS/MMS on Windows
https://i.postimg.cc/c4Wq5x9j/scrcpy22.jpg Vysor IP address option
https://i.postimg.cc/9FJMKYch/scrcpy21.jpg Windows Drive: === Android
https://i.postimg.cc/Y9jbTtcN/scrcpy20.jpg Start /b as a CMD works! :)
https://i.postimg.cc/3R6nTz7s/scrcpy19.jpg Start /b TARGET fails :(
https://i.postimg.cc/Y93b1z0n/scrcpy18.jpg Free Automation APKs  https://i.postimg.cc/bvRXdbxg/scrcpy17.jpg AutoIT & IFFT & Automate
https://i.postimg.cc/5NrK7jtg/scrcpy16.jpg powershell hide-console trick
https://i.postimg.cc/g2yNftw0/scrcpy15.jpg Trick to pin batch shortcut
https://i.postimg.cc/XqZsmVFM/scrcpy14.jpg AppPath & shortcut TARGET
https://i.postimg.cc/CxXH6N2r/scrcpy13.jpg No scrcpy console window!
https://i.postimg.cc/yYKNnHxD/scrcpy12.jpg REG test of showwin.lnk
https://i.postimg.cc/7LWJhWxq/scrcpy11.jpg Shortcut test of showwin.lnk
https://i.postimg.cc/fyWw2nXh/scrcpy10.jpg The console came up :(
https://i.postimg.cc/66Gn2t2g/scrcpy09.jpg REG test of showwin.bat
https://i.postimg.cc/nV6K0Cfn/scrcpy08.jpg CMD test of showwin.bat  https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg Android mnt as drive letter
https://i.postimg.cc/Sx1hgWmY/scrcpy06.jpg Press two hardware buttons
https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg Drag APK from Windows
https://i.postimg.cc/Y00vx4yp/scrcpy04.jpg Extraneous cmd window (&)
https://i.postimg.cc/Vvrq0K0m/scrcpy03.jpg The efficient setup explained
https://i.postimg.cc/tTmdgKTB/scrcpy02.jpg An efficient program setup
https://i.postimg.cc/N0G1TXcZ/scrcpy01.jpg Mirror Android on any PC
--
On Usenet, kind hearted people try to help each other all day every day.

Click here to read the complete article
Pages:12345
rocksolid light 0.7.2
clearneti2ptor