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devel / comp.theory / Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

SubjectAuthor
* Category errorMr Flibble
+* Category errorolcott
|`* Category errorRichard Damon
| `* Category errorolcott
|  `* Category errorRichard Damon
|   `* Category errorolcott
|    `* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|     `* Category errorolcott
|      `* Category errorRichard Damon
|       +* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|       |`* Category errorolcott
|       | `* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|       |  +- Category errorRichard Damon
|       |  `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   +* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]André G. Isaak
|       |   |`* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   | +* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]André G. Isaak
|       |   | |`* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   | | `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]André G. Isaak
|       |   | |  `- Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   | `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   |  `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   |   `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   |    `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   |     `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   |      `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   |       `- Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |    `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |     `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |      `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |       `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |        `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |         `- Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       `* Category errorolcott
|        +* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|        |`* Category errorolcott
|        | `* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|        |  `* Category errorolcott
|        |   +* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|        |   |`- Category errorolcott
|        |   `* Category errorRichard Damon
|        |    `* Category errorolcott
|        |     `* Category errorRichard Damon
|        |      `* Category errorolcott
|        |       `- Category errorRichard Damon
|        `- Category errorRichard Damon
+* Category errorwij
|`* Category errorMr Flibble
| `- Category errorolcott
`* Category errorMikko
 `* Category errorolcott
  +* Category errorRichard Damon
  |`* Category errorolcott
  | `- Category errorRichard Damon
  `* Category errorBen
   +* Category errorolcott
   |+- Category errorRichard Damon
   |`- Category errorBen
   `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
    +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
    `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben
     `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
      +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Malcolm McLean
      | `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      |  +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
      |  `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Malcolm McLean
      |   `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      |    `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
      `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben
       `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
        +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
        `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben
         `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
          +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
          +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)olcott
          |+- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Richard Damon
          |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Ben
          | `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)olcott
          |  +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)olcott
          |  +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Richard Damon
          |  `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Ben
          |   `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)olcott
          |    +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)Richard Damon
          |    `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)Ben
          |     +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)olcott
          |     |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)Ben
          |     | `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Ben
          |     |  |+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  ||+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Richard Damon
          |     |  |||+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  ||||`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Richard Damon
          |     |  |||| `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  ||||  `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Richard Damon
          |     |  |||`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Malcolm McLean
          |     |  ||| `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  |||  `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Richard Damon
          |     |  ||`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Ben
          |     |  |+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  |+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Richard Damon
          |     `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)olcott
          +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Python
          `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben

Pages:123456789101112
Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<87o7zr3od4.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=32719&group=comp.theory#32719

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ben.use...@bsb.me.uk (Ben)
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 22:06:47 +0100
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 by: Ben - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:06 UTC

olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest, un-edited
>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing 237-fold
>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited. No one will believe them until you post the
>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to convince
>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't lie. Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe that
>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>> I really don't care. The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>> like your trace.
>>>
>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>
>> So you say. But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>> of function calls. No emulation code appears at all. You may have
>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>> to do.
>
> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.

Why are you shouting? You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
(i.e. me) thinks you are full of it. Just publish your paper and bask
in the glory.

(You seem to be posting the same thing again and again. I'll limit
myself to one reply here.)

--
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<CwThK.4$921.3@fx37.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=32720&group=comp.theory#32720

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.theory comp.ai.philosophy sci.logic
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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.logic
References: <20220514170555.00004550@reddwarf.jmc>
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From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:14 UTC

On 5/20/22 4:33 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE
>>>>>>>>>>> BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest,
>>>>>>>>>> un-edited
>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing
>>>>>>>>> 237-fold
>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited.  No one will believe them until you post
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to convince
>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't lie.  Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe that
>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>> I really don't care.  The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>> like your trace.
>>>
>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>
>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>> to do.
>
>
> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE TRACE
> THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE PROVIDED IS
> CORRECT.
>

Nope.

>>> You will be exposed as a liar when you try to show any error in the
>>> execution trace of the nested simulation of the input to H(P,P).
>>
>> Post H and I'll gladly explain.  We know that H is not a halt decider,
>> but we don't know exactly what silly thing it really is deciding because
>> you post only edited execution traces.
>>
>
>

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<3xThK.5$921.2@fx37.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=32721&group=comp.theory#32721

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
Content-Language: en-US
Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.logic
References: <20220514170555.00004550@reddwarf.jmc>
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Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 17:14:39 -0400
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:14 UTC

On 5/20/22 4:33 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE
>>>>>>>>>>> BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest,
>>>>>>>>>> un-edited
>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing
>>>>>>>>> 237-fold
>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited.  No one will believe them until you post
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to convince
>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't lie.  Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe that
>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>> I really don't care.  The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>> like your trace.
>>>
>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>
>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>> to do.
>
>
> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE TRACE
> THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE PROVIDED IS
> CORRECT.

Nope.

>
>>> You will be exposed as a liar when you try to show any error in the
>>> execution trace of the nested simulation of the input to H(P,P).
>>
>> Post H and I'll gladly explain.  We know that H is not a halt decider,
>> but we don't know exactly what silly thing it really is deciding because
>> you post only edited execution traces.
>>
>
>

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<ixThK.6$921.1@fx37.iad>

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Ben is a Liar ]
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From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
In-Reply-To: <xemdnWkD8OO5Zhr_nZ2dnUU7_8z8fwAA@giganews.com>
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:14 UTC

On 5/20/22 4:33 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE
>>>>>>>>>>> BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest,
>>>>>>>>>> un-edited
>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing
>>>>>>>>> 237-fold
>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited.  No one will believe them until you post
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to convince
>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't lie.  Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe that
>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>> I really don't care.  The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>> like your trace.
>>>
>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>
>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>> to do.
>
> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE TRACE
> THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE PROVIDED IS
> CORRECT.

Nope/

>
>>> You will be exposed as a liar when you try to show any error in the
>>> execution trace of the nested simulation of the input to H(P,P).
>>
>> Post H and I'll gladly explain.  We know that H is not a halt decider,
>> but we don't know exactly what silly thing it really is deciding because
>> you post only edited execution traces.
>>
>
>

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<eMydnSx2E-NVlBX_nZ2dnUU7_8xh4p2d@giganews.com>

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
Content-Language: en-US
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References: <20220514170555.00004550@reddwarf.jmc>
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<04qdnQ2ArKr2Bhj_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <87a6bd91n1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
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<yeCdnWc-Ja14txr_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <877d6g5tuo.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:36 UTC

On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest, un-edited
>>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing 237-fold
>>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited. No one will believe them until you post the
>>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to convince
>>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't lie. Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe that
>>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>>> I really don't care. The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>>> like your trace.
>>>>
>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>
>>> So you say. But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>>> of function calls. No emulation code appears at all. You may have
>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>>> to do.
>>
>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>
> Why are you shouting? You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it. Just publish your paper and bask
> in the glory.
>
> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again. I'll limit
> myself to one reply here.)
>

Yet another God damned dishonest dodge.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<eMydnS92E-OnlxX_nZ2dnUU7_8xh4p2d@giganews.com>

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Ben is a Liar ]
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References: <20220514170555.00004550@reddwarf.jmc>
<-YWdnXUTXaNq_Rn_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <87ee0qq2lr.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
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<RuGdnaqBNspG-xv_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <874k1l8h4u.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:38 UTC

On 5/20/2022 4:36 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest,
>>>>>>>>>>>> un-edited
>>>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing
>>>>>>>>>>> 237-fold
>>>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited.  No one will believe them until you
>>>>>>>>>> post the
>>>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to
>>>>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't lie.  Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>>>> I really don't care.  The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>>>> like your trace.
>>>>>
>>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>>
>>>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>>>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>>>> to do.
>>>
>>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>>
>> Why are you shouting?  You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
>> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
>> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it.  Just publish your paper and bask
>> in the glory.
>>
>> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again.  I'll limit
>> myself to one reply here.)
>>
>
> Yet another God damned dishonest dodge.
>

You have known that my trace is correct the whole time over the last six
months.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<cWThK.18211$zgr9.11981@fx13.iad>

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From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:41 UTC

On 5/20/22 5:38 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 4:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> un-edited
>>>>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing
>>>>>>>>>>>> 237-fold
>>>>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited.  No one will believe them until you
>>>>>>>>>>> post the
>>>>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to
>>>>>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't lie.  Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>>>>> I really don't care.  The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>>>>> like your trace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>>>
>>>>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>>>>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>>>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd
>>>>> thing
>>>>> to do.
>>>>
>>>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>>>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>>>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>>>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>>>
>>> Why are you shouting?  You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
>>> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
>>> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it.  Just publish your paper and bask
>>> in the glory.
>>>
>>> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again.  I'll limit
>>> myself to one reply here.)
>>>
>>
>> Yet another God damned dishonest dodge.
>>
>
> You have known that my trace is correct the whole time over the last six
> months.
>
>

No, it is't. If it was the execution path of hte ACTUAL execution of
P(P) (which is the definition of a correct simulation) then only one
instance of P would be seen, then a trace of the simulator simulating
its copy of that.

This isn't what you show, so it isn't an accurate trace, but just your
dishonest dodge.

You are cementing your legacy as a lying kook.

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<SfWdnTcajIIjkxX_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=32726&group=comp.theory#32726

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Ben is a Liar ]
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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 21:57 UTC

On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest, un-edited
>>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing 237-fold
>>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited. No one will believe them until you post the
>>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to convince
>>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't lie. Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe that
>>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>>> I really don't care. The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>>> like your trace.
>>>>
>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>
>>> So you say. But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>>> of function calls. No emulation code appears at all. You may have
>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>>> to do.
>>
>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>
> Why are you shouting? You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it. Just publish your paper and bask
> in the glory.
>
> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again. I'll limit
> myself to one reply here.)
>

You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months and you only deny
this to play sadistic head games.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<87h75j3lnu.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=32727&group=comp.theory#32727

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From: ben.use...@bsb.me.uk (Ben)
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 23:05:09 +0100
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 by: Ben - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:05 UTC

olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 5/20/2022 4:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

>>>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>>>
>>>>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>>>>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>>>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>>>>> to do.
>>>>
>>>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>>>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>>>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>>>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>>>
>>> Why are you shouting?  You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
>>> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
>>> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it.  Just publish your paper and bask
>>> in the glory.
>>>
>>> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again.  I'll limit
>>> myself to one reply here.)
>>>
>> Yet another God damned dishonest dodge.
>
> You have known that my trace is correct the whole time over the last
> six months.

By all means, keep banging on about an H that is not a halt decider, but
don't try to guess what other people know.

How are you getting on writing a parity checking TM?

--
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<coUhK.443$lut9.109@fx99.iad>

 copy mid

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:13 UTC

On 5/20/22 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 10:12 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 6:25 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2022 7:53 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ONE CAN VERIFY THAT THE EXECUTION TRACE IS CORRECT ON THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BASIS THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE EXECUTION TRACE OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) CORRESPONDS TO
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE BEHAVIOR SPECIFIED BY THE X86 SOURCE-CODE OF P
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE H(P,P) CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT CALLS H(P,P) THAT CORRECTLY EMULATES ITS INPUT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rather than shouting, you could either publish an honest,
>>>>>>>>>>>> un-edited
>>>>>>>>>>>> execution trace,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that a single page already proves that
>>>>>>>>>>> H(p,P)==0 is correct it is certainly the case that providing
>>>>>>>>>>> 237-fold
>>>>>>>>>>> more details [would not help].
>>>>>>>>>> (Your correction added)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your traces are edited.  No one will believe them until you
>>>>>>>>>> post the
>>>>>>>>>> real trace, and even then you will have some work to do to
>>>>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>>>>> people you are being honest about the output.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can simply upgrade to smarter people that don't lie.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't lie.  Your trace does not show what you claim H is doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is either a lie or you are very stupid and I do not believe
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> you are very stupid.
>>>>>> I really don't care.  The trace of a nested emulation would not look
>>>>>> like your trace.
>>>>>
>>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>>
>>>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>>>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>>>> to do.
>>>
>>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>>
>> Why are you shouting?  You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
>> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
>> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it.  Just publish your paper and bask
>> in the glory.
>>
>> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again.  I'll limit
>> myself to one reply here.)
>>
>
> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months and you only deny
> this to play sadistic head games.
>

We don't know that, since it isn't true (at least if H claims to be a
Halting Decider). You should know that you can't actually KNOW something
that isn't true.

You may BELIEVE that it is correct, but it isn't, and that reason has
been explained many times.

The fact that you persist in the claims indicates that either you are
just a liar, or are incapable of understanding the meaning of the
statements.

A call to H can NOT be immediately followed by an entery to P in a
correct simulation, since that is NOT how the x86 processor works.

That you think it is possiible just shows how little you understand how
things actually work.

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<AZCdnRGbuIHrjhX_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=32730&group=comp.theory#32730

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:17 UTC

On 5/20/2022 5:05 PM, Ben wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>> On 5/20/2022 4:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>>>>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited sequence
>>>>>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>>>>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd thing
>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>>>>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>>>>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>>>>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you shouting?  You seem to be getting worked up, but I can't see
>>>> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on Usenet
>>>> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it.  Just publish your paper and bask
>>>> in the glory.
>>>>
>>>> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again.  I'll limit
>>>> myself to one reply here.)
>>>>
>>> Yet another God damned dishonest dodge.
>>
>> You have known that my trace is correct the whole time over the last
>> six months.
>
> By all means, keep banging on about an H that is not a halt decider, but
> don't try to guess what other people know.

The fact that a correctly reverse engineered execution trace of the
input to H(P,P) through one simulation and one nested simulation derives
this trace:

Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:212352
....[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55 push ebp // enter P
....[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec mov ebp,esp
....[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
....[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
....[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
....[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
....[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
....[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55 push ebp // enter P
....[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec mov ebp,esp
....[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
....[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
....[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
....[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
....[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H

conclusively proves that that trace is correct and also conclusively
proves that P never reaches its final state when it is correctly
simulated. THIS IS A VERIFIED FACT THUS DISAGREEMENT IS A LIE

>
> How are you getting on writing a parity checking TM?
>

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<87bkvr3kqn.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

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From: ben.use...@bsb.me.uk (Ben)
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 23:25:04 +0100
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 by: Ben - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:25 UTC

olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months

If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.

If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
correct simulation of P(P) halt.

These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
"correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.

> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.

If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
accusation. Do you stand by it?

--
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<875ylz3knq.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

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Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]
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 by: Ben - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:26 UTC

olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 5/20/2022 5:05 PM, Ben wrote:
>> How are you getting on writing a parity checking TM?

Nothing?

--
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<qDUhK.2809$3Gzd.648@fx96.iad>

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
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From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
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 by: Richard Damon - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:29 UTC

On 5/20/22 6:17 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 5:05 PM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2022 4:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/20/2022 4:06 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 11:41 AM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>>>>>>> This <is> the trace of the nested emulation of the input to H(P,P)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you say.  But there are no signs of anything but an edited
>>>>>>> sequence
>>>>>>> of function calls.  No emulation code appears at all.  You may have
>>>>>>> removed the evidence that you are right, but that would an absurd
>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NONE-THE-LESS WHEN WE REVERSE ENGINEER WHAT THE CORRECT NESTED
>>>>>> SIMULATION OF THE INPUT TO H(P,P) WOULD BE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE
>>>>>> TRACE THAT IS PROVIDED THUS CONCLUSIVELY PROVING THAT THE TRACE
>>>>>> PROVIDED IS CORRECT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you shouting?  You seem to be getting worked up, but I
>>>>> can't see
>>>>> why since it can't possibly matter you that some random idiot on
>>>>> Usenet
>>>>> (i.e. me) thinks you are full of it.  Just publish your paper and bask
>>>>> in the glory.
>>>>>
>>>>> (You seem to be posting the same thing again and again.  I'll limit
>>>>> myself to one reply here.)
>>>>>
>>>> Yet another God damned dishonest dodge.
>>>
>>> You have known that my trace is correct the whole time over the last
>>> six months.
>>
>> By all means, keep banging on about an H that is not a halt decider, but
>> don't try to guess what other people know.
>
> The fact that a correctly reverse engineered execution trace of the
> input to H(P,P) through one simulation and one nested simulation derives
> this trace:
>
> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:212352
> ...[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55         push ebp      // enter P
> ...[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> ...[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50         push eax      // push P
> ...[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51         push ecx      // push P
> ...[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
> ...[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55         push ebp      // enter P
> ...[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> ...[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50         push eax      // push P
> ...[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51         push ecx      // push P
> ...[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>
> conclusively proves that that trace is correct and also conclusively
> proves that P never reaches its final state when it is correctly
> simulated. THIS IS A VERIFIED FACT THUS DISAGREEMENT IS A LIE

No, it is verified to BE a lie.

You haven't refuted the errors I have pointed out, and thus you are by
default accepting them as vaild, and that your trace is just not correct.

LIARS need to just keep repeating the lies, as explaitions just dig them
a bigger hole.

>
>>
>> How are you getting on writing a parity checking TM?
>>
>
>

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:33 UTC

On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
>
> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
>
> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
> correct simulation of P(P) halt.

So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is incorrect.
THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.

>
> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
>
>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
>
> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
> accusation. Do you stand by it?
>

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
From: dbush.mo...@gmail.com (Dennis Bush)
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 by: Dennis Bush - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:44 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:33:29 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
> > olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
> >
> >> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
> >> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
> >
> > If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
> > claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
> >
> > If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
> > function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
> > correct simulation of P(P) halt.
> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is incorrect.
> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.

So if we look at the execution trace of Ha3(N,5), where the halt criteria of Ha3 is no more than 3 steps, and N(x) runs for exactly x steps, we'll see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(N,5)==0 is correct.

Let's also look at Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0) == 0. Here we also see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0)==0 is correct.

If you disagree, state *in exact detail* how you would determine if each of these is correct or incorrect.

> >
> > These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
> > "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
> > is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
> >
> >> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
> >
> > If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
> > accusation. Do you stand by it?
> >
>
>
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:51 UTC

On 5/20/2022 5:44 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:33:29 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
>>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
>>>
>>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
>>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
>>>
>>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
>>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
>>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
>> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
>> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is incorrect.
>> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.
>
> So if we look at the execution trace of Ha3(N,5),

Yet another God damned lying bastard that uses the strawman error in an
attempt to get away with deception.

> where the halt criteria of Ha3 is no more than 3 steps, and N(x) runs for exactly x steps, we'll see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(N,5)==0 is correct.
>
> Let's also look at Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0) == 0. Here we also see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0)==0 is correct.
>
> If you disagree, state *in exact detail* how you would determine if each of these is correct or incorrect.
>
>
>>>
>>> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
>>> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
>>> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
>>>
>>>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
>>>
>>> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
>>> accusation. Do you stand by it?
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

<87zgjb24wm.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

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From: ben.use...@bsb.me.uk (Ben)
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]
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 by: Ben - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:52 UTC

olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
>>
>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
>>
>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
>
> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is
> incorrect.

The sole purpose of your mantra, repeated again and again, is to avoid
this key question: what is being simulated?

H(P,P) has no "inputs". It has arguments. They are pointers. There is
no such thing as a "correct simulation" of two pointers. There is not
even an incorrect simulation of two pointers. But you must repeat the
mantra or you will have to admit one of two things: either it's P(P)
that is being simulated, in which case H gives the wrong answer, or it
is not P(P) that is being simulated, in which case no one cares.

> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.

I'm not going to reply anymore until you show a modicum of decency.

>> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
>> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
>> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
>>
>>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
>>
>> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
>> accusation. Do you stand by it?

Obviously you do stand by it. Noted.

--
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
From: dbush.mo...@gmail.com (Dennis Bush)
Injection-Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 22:53:29 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Dennis Bush - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:53 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:51:42 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 5:44 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> > On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:33:29 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
> >>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
> >>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
> >>>
> >>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
> >>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
> >>>
> >>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
> >>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
> >>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
> >> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
> >> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is incorrect.
> >> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.
> >
> > So if we look at the execution trace of Ha3(N,5),
> Yet another God damned lying bastard that uses the strawman error in an
> attempt to get away with deception.

So if you believe that Ha3(N,5)==0 is either wrong or irrelevent you should have no problem explaining why without just saying "strawman".

> > where the halt criteria of Ha3 is no more than 3 steps, and N(x) runs for exactly x steps, we'll see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(N,5)==0 is correct.
> >
> > Let's also look at Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0) == 0. Here we also see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0)==0 is correct.
> >
> > If you disagree, state *in exact detail* how you would determine if each of these is correct or incorrect.
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
> >>> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
> >>> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
> >>>
> >>>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
> >>>
> >>> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
> >>> accusation. Do you stand by it?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>
> >> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >> Arthur Schopenhauer
>
>
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 22:58 UTC

On 5/20/2022 5:52 PM, Ben wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
>>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
>>>
>>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
>>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
>>>
>>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
>>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
>>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
>>
>> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
>> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is
>> incorrect.
>
> The sole purpose of your mantra, repeated again and again, is to avoid
> this key question: what is being simulated?
>
> H(P,P) has no "inputs". It has arguments. They are pointers. There is
> no such thing as a "correct simulation" of two pointers.

What a complete jackass thing to say when you already know damn well the
finite strings of machine language must be passed to functions that
operate on them as pointers in C.

> There is not
> even an incorrect simulation of two pointers. But you must repeat the
> mantra or you will have to admit one of two things: either it's P(P)
> that is being simulated, in which case H gives the wrong answer, or it
> is not P(P) that is being simulated, in which case no one cares.
>

The finite strings of machine language that are passed to H as machine
addresses are simulated correctly and you have always known this and
only denied it to play sadistic head games.

>> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.
>
> I'm not going to reply anymore until you show a modicum of decency.
>

As soon as you quit being a God damned lying bastard I will quit calling
you one, not until.

>>> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
>>> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
>>> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
>>>
>>>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
>>>
>>> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
>>> accusation. Do you stand by it?
>
> Obviously you do stand by it. Noted.
>

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
From: dbush.mo...@gmail.com (Dennis Bush)
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 by: Dennis Bush - Fri, 20 May 2022 23:02 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:59:08 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 5:52 PM, Ben wrote:
> > olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
> >
> >> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
> >>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
> >>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
> >>>
> >>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
> >>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
> >>>
> >>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
> >>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
> >>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
> >>
> >> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
> >> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is
> >> incorrect.
> >
> > The sole purpose of your mantra, repeated again and again, is to avoid
> > this key question: what is being simulated?
> >
> > H(P,P) has no "inputs". It has arguments. They are pointers. There is
> > no such thing as a "correct simulation" of two pointers.
> What a complete jackass thing to say when you already know damn well the
> finite strings of machine language must be passed to functions that
> operate on them as pointers in C.
> > There is not
> > even an incorrect simulation of two pointers. But you must repeat the
> > mantra or you will have to admit one of two things: either it's P(P)
> > that is being simulated, in which case H gives the wrong answer, or it
> > is not P(P) that is being simulated, in which case no one cares.
> >
> The finite strings of machine language that are passed to H as machine
> addresses are simulated correctly and you have always known this and
> only denied it to play sadistic head games.

If it's simulated correctly then why does P(P) halt? Because that's what the input represents. And if it doesn't, H isn't answering the right question.

> >> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.
> >
> > I'm not going to reply anymore until you show a modicum of decency.
> >
> As soon as you quit being a God damned lying bastard I will quit calling
> you one, not until.

You being unable to understand the correct explanation of others of why you are wrong doesn't make them liars.

> >>> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
> >>> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
> >>> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
> >>>
> >>>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
> >>>
> >>> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
> >>> accusation. Do you stand by it?
> >
> > Obviously you do stand by it. Noted.
> >
>
>
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 23:02 UTC

On 5/20/2022 5:53 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:51:42 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/20/2022 5:44 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:33:29 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
>>>>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
>>>>>
>>>>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
>>>>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
>>>>>
>>>>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
>>>>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
>>>>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
>>>> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
>>>> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is incorrect.
>>>> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.
>>>
>>> So if we look at the execution trace of Ha3(N,5),
>> Yet another God damned lying bastard that uses the strawman error in an
>> attempt to get away with deception.
>
> So if you believe that Ha3(N,5)==0 is either wrong or irrelevent you should have no problem explaining why without just saying "strawman".

I am talking about the correct simulation of the machine language of P
being correctly emulated by another 100% specific finite string of
machine language named H.

When you change the subject away from this you become a despicable lying
bastard.

>
>>> where the halt criteria of Ha3 is no more than 3 steps, and N(x) runs for exactly x steps, we'll see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(N,5)==0 is correct.
>>>
>>> Let's also look at Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0) == 0. Here we also see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0)==0 is correct.
>>>
>>> If you disagree, state *in exact detail* how you would determine if each of these is correct or incorrect.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
>>>>> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
>>>>> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
>>>>> accusation. Do you stand by it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>
>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>
>>
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 23:05 UTC

On 5/20/2022 6:02 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:59:08 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/20/2022 5:52 PM, Ben wrote:
>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
>>>>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
>>>>>
>>>>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
>>>>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
>>>>>
>>>>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
>>>>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
>>>>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
>>>>
>>>> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
>>>> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is
>>>> incorrect.
>>>
>>> The sole purpose of your mantra, repeated again and again, is to avoid
>>> this key question: what is being simulated?
>>>
>>> H(P,P) has no "inputs". It has arguments. They are pointers. There is
>>> no such thing as a "correct simulation" of two pointers.
>> What a complete jackass thing to say when you already know damn well the
>> finite strings of machine language must be passed to functions that
>> operate on them as pointers in C.
>>> There is not
>>> even an incorrect simulation of two pointers. But you must repeat the
>>> mantra or you will have to admit one of two things: either it's P(P)
>>> that is being simulated, in which case H gives the wrong answer, or it
>>> is not P(P) that is being simulated, in which case no one cares.
>>>
>> The finite strings of machine language that are passed to H as machine
>> addresses are simulated correctly and you have always known this and
>> only denied it to play sadistic head games.
>
> If it's simulated correctly then why does P(P) halt? Because that's what the input represents. And if it doesn't, H isn't answering the right question.

I have explained this to you dozens of times because you are a
despicable lying bastard you pretend to not know what I said.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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Subject: Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[
Ben is a Liar ]
From: dbush.mo...@gmail.com (Dennis Bush)
Injection-Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 23:11:35 +0000
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 by: Dennis Bush - Fri, 20 May 2022 23:11 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:02:24 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2022 5:53 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> > On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:51:42 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >> On 5/20/2022 5:44 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> >>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:33:29 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> >>>> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
> >>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
> >>>>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
> >>>>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
> >>>>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
> >>>>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
> >>>> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
> >>>> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is incorrect.
> >>>> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.
> >>>
> >>> So if we look at the execution trace of Ha3(N,5),
> >> Yet another God damned lying bastard that uses the strawman error in an
> >> attempt to get away with deception.
> >
> > So if you believe that Ha3(N,5)==0 is either wrong or irrelevent you should have no problem explaining why without just saying "strawman".
> I am talking about the correct simulation of the machine language of P
> being correctly emulated by another 100% specific finite string of
> machine language named H.

And by the criteria you use to show that H(P,P)==0 is correct, that exact same criteria shows that Ha3(N,5)==0 is correct. So if you believe the latter result is bogus, that means your criteria for determining the correctness of H(P,P)==0 is invalid

>
> When you change the subject away from this you become a despicable lying
> bastard.

Not if it shows errors in the logic you use to make your conclusion.

> >
> >>> where the halt criteria of Ha3 is no more than 3 steps, and N(x) runs for exactly x steps, we'll see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(N,5)==0 is correct.
> >>>
> >>> Let's also look at Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0) == 0. Here we also see that no lines of code are simulated incorrectly. Therefore, according to you, this is a correct simulation and Ha3(InfiniteLoop,0)==0 is correct.
> >>>
> >>> If you disagree, state *in exact detail* how you would determine if each of these is correct or incorrect.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These are the cases that matter. Whatever it is you mean by your latest
> >>>>> "correct simulation" mantra is of no interest to anyone but you. That H
> >>>>> is "correct" to do whatever it is that it does is simply unassailable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> and you only deny this to play sadistic head games.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you think about it for more than a second, that's a very nasty
> >>>>> accusation. Do you stand by it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>>>
> >>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
> >>
> >> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> >> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> >> Arthur Schopenhauer
>
>
> --
> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>
> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
> Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]

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Ben is a Liar ]
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From: NoO...@NoWhere.com (olcott)
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 by: olcott - Fri, 20 May 2022 23:13 UTC

On 5/20/2022 6:11 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:02:24 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/20/2022 5:53 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:51:42 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/20/2022 5:44 PM, Dennis Bush wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:33:29 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 5:25 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have known that the input to H(P,P) is simulated correctly proving
>>>>>>>> that H(P,P)==0 is correct for the whole six months
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If H is intended to be a halt decider (even if only for the one case you
>>>>>>> claim to care about) then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong, because P(P) halts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If a "correct simulation of the input to H(P,P)" is a simulation of the
>>>>>>> function call P(P), then H(P,P) == 0 is wrong because both P(P) and a
>>>>>>> correct simulation of P(P) halt.
>>>>>> So in other words even though there are no lines of code that are
>>>>>> simulated incorrectly you still claim that the simulation is incorrect.
>>>>>> THAT IS WHAT A DAMNED LYING BASTARD WOULD SAY.
>>>>>
>>>>> So if we look at the execution trace of Ha3(N,5),
>>>> Yet another God damned lying bastard that uses the strawman error in an
>>>> attempt to get away with deception.
>>>
>>> So if you believe that Ha3(N,5)==0 is either wrong or irrelevent you should have no problem explaining why without just saying "strawman".
>> I am talking about the correct simulation of the machine language of P
>> being correctly emulated by another 100% specific finite string of
>> machine language named H.
>
> And by the criteria you use to show that H(P,P)==0 is correct,
More than that.
I prove that the criteria that I use is correct and I prove the
H(P,P)==0 is correct on the basis of that criteria.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

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