Francis S wrote:

> it seems that K9Mail is going to become the new
> Thunderbird for Android:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/email-client-k-9-mail-will-become-thunderbird-for-android/

This is _great_ information which seems to indicate that the Thunderbird
team has acquired the K-9 source and will essentially port Thunderbird to
Android via that K-9 source code and key personnel.
--
Anyone who has a google account on their phone doesn't care about privacy.

On 21/06/2022 05:21, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Francis S wrote:
>
>> it seems that K9Mail is going to become the new
>> Thunderbird for Android:
>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/email-client-k-9-mail-will-become-thunderbird-for-android/
>>
>
> This is _great_ information which seems to indicate that the Thunderbird
> team has acquired the K-9 source and will essentially port Thunderbird to
> Android via that K-9 source code and key personnel.

Does that mean that the Thunderbird newsreader will be available on Android?
--
Cheers,
Roger

Roger Mills wrote:

> Does that mean that the Thunderbird newsreader will be available on Android?

Initially it seems K9 will get some work to synchronise settings with desktop
Thunderbird and then be renamed to Thunderbird for Android ...

Andy Burns wrote:

> Roger Mills wrote:
>
>> Does that mean that the Thunderbird newsreader will be available on Android?
>
> Initially it seems K9 will get some work to synchronise settings with desktop
> Thunderbird and then be renamed to Thunderbird for Android ...

Thanks for that response where there's an FAQ on the subject but it's light
on facts, as is the published roadmap (at least the roadmap that I found).

Roadmap:
<https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/revealed-thunderbird-on-android-plans-k9/>

FAQ:
<https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-and-k-9-mail/>

The reason I pine for something like this is simply that Thunderbird
handles OAuth2 which Google requires if you're not excited about 2FA/2SV.

I'd be happy if K-9 Mail had OAuth2 as I am being forced to switch _off_ of
K9 because (as far as I know) it doesn't currently support OAuth2 which is
the only thing left after June 30th for me (given I'm not using 2FA/2SV).

Meanwhile, I will likely switch from K9 to something like FairMail because
Google is requiring OAuth2 support for those who won't switch to 2FA/2SV.
<https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-content-faq111>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> The reason I pine for something like this is simply that Thunderbird handles
> OAuth2 which Google requires if you're not excited about 2FA/2SV.

From you posts in other groups, it seems google might be starting to be dicks
about oauth2, people may think they made a bit of a hash over turning-off plain
passwords for gmail, but I think most people got there in the end.

But if they have to "bless" android apps to use oAuth, what's the point? Surely
the it's up to the server to ask for creds, see what it's given and then let you
in, or turf you out? If they require auditing the source of the client, it ll
seems to be on its head ...

Am 21.06.22 um 15:35 schrieb Roger Mills:
> On 21/06/2022 05:21, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Francis S wrote:
>>
>>> it seems that K9Mail is going to become the new
>>> Thunderbird for Android:
>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/email-client-k-9-mail-will-become-thunderbird-for-android/
>>>
>>
>> This is _great_ information which seems to indicate that the Thunderbird
>> team has acquired the K-9 source and will essentially port Thunderbird to
>> Android via that K-9 source code and key personnel.
>
> Does that mean that the Thunderbird newsreader will be available on Android?

No.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Meanwhile, I will likely switch from K9 to something like FairMail because
> Google is requiring OAuth2 support for those who won't switch to 2FA/2SV.

Drat.

Google is a privacy bastard in almost every way possible with their change
as of June 30th to no longer allow basic privacy of an account & password.

In my tests just now switching from K9 mail (which doesn't support OAuth2)
to FairMail (which does support OAuth2), the sleazy process ended up
_CREATING_ that account for Google in the operating system!

I _never_ want my phone to be set to _any_ account.
Not Samsung. Not Google. Not anyone.

It's a basic privacy thing, since the instant you create an account on an
Android phone, your privacy is toast.

I suspect it will be the same with the Thunderbird port of K9 mail even as
K9 mail _never_ needed to _create_ an account in the operating system.
--
If you have any account set up on your phone, you don't care about privacy.

On 21/06/2022 16:11, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile, I will likely switch from K9 to something like FairMail because
>> Google is requiring OAuth2 support for those who won't switch to 2FA/2SV.
>
> Drat.
>
> Google is a privacy bastard in almost every way possible with their change
> as of June 30th to no longer allow basic privacy of an account & password.

Everything after the fifth word is superfluous. :-))

> In my tests just now switching from K9 mail (which doesn't support OAuth2)
> to FairMail (which does support OAuth2), the sleazy process ended up
> _CREATING_ that account for Google in the operating system!
>
> I _never_ want my phone to be set to _any_ account.
> Not Samsung. Not Google. Not anyone.

Well, at least you /know/ about that account!

> It's a basic privacy thing, since the instant you create an account on an
> Android phone, your privacy is toast.

It's further back than that. The minute you start using your android
phone your privacy is toast. As Google owns the OS, we have no idea what
it does a lot of the time. Just what are all those system apps for?
/What/ do they do? How many other "secret" codes are there that only
Google knows about? How many codes that the manufacturer knows
about?(<https://www.unlockphone.codes/android-secret-codes-hidden-menu-dialler-codes//>).
Android might be open-source, but nobody outside of Google can know what
all that 10GB+ does.

Users should always remember that if they're not paying for it (and a
lot of the time if they are paying for it!) *their* data is the product.

> I suspect it will be the same with the Thunderbird port of K9 mail even as
> K9 mail _never_ needed to _create_ an account in the operating system.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 21/06/2022 16:11, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> > Andy Burnelli wrote:
> >
> >> Meanwhile, I will likely switch from K9 to something like FairMail because
> >> Google is requiring OAuth2 support for those who won't switch to 2FA/2SV.
> >
> > Drat.
> >
> > Google is a privacy bastard in almost every way possible with their change
> > as of June 30th to no longer allow basic privacy of an account & password.
>
> Everything after the fifth word is superfluous. :-))

Let me see what we've got here!? User hates Google, but wants to use a
Gmail account in an email app, never mind that he wants to use it on an
Android device!

What's wrong with this picture!?

On 21/06/2022 15:54, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Roger Mills wrote:
>>
>>> Does that mean that the Thunderbird newsreader will be available on
>>> Android?
>>
>> Initially it seems K9 will get some work to synchronise settings with
>> desktop Thunderbird and then be renamed to Thunderbird for Android ...
>
> Thanks for that response where there's an FAQ on the subject but it's
> light on facts, as is the published roadmap (at least the roadmap that I
> found).
>
> Roadmap:
> <https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/revealed-thunderbird-on-android-plans-k9/>
>
>
> FAQ:
> <https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-and-k-9-mail/>
>

Thanks. Sounds like a definite maybe to me!

> The reason I pine for something like this is simply that Thunderbird
> handles OAuth2 which Google requires if you're not excited about 2FA/2SV.
>
> I'd be happy if K-9 Mail had OAuth2 as I am being forced to switch _off_
> of K9 because (as far as I know) it doesn't currently support OAuth2
> which is the only thing left after June 30th for me (given I'm not using
> 2FA/2SV).
>

I've got a few gmail accounts - which I don't use very much, and very
rarely *send* emails from them. But I *receive* quite a lot of emails
addressed to them. My solution is to automatically forward the incoming
emails to a non-gmail account, and then delete the originals. That way,
I never need to access the gmail accounts directly, but can receive the
emails in K-9.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 21 Jun 2022 19:23:05 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Let me see what we've got here!? User hates Google, but wants to use a
> Gmail account in an email app, never mind that he wants to use it on an
> Android device!
>
> What's wrong with this picture!?

Contradictio in terminis? (-:

--
s|b

Jeff Layman wrote:

> It's further back than that. The minute you start using your android
> phone your privacy is toast.

It's worse on iOS since you can't _not_ have a mothership account on iOS.

Still, there are _plenty_ of things you can do to protect your privacy on
Android, such as not using typical Google apps like Chrome (use Ungoogle
Chromium instead) and not giving away your location (e.g., spoof the
location full time unless you actually need it now) and not having
advertising IDs (you can now replace the AD ID by all zeros), etc.

I don't give up as easily as some people do, but the _first_ thing I do for
privacy is _not_ set up a Google Account on Android (same with Windows 10).
--
The instant you set up a mothership account on a device, your privacy is
toast; luckily there shouldn't be any need to set up a mothership account.

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Let me see what we've got here!? User hates Google, but wants to use a
> Gmail account in an email app, never mind that he wants to use it on an
> Android device!
>
> What's wrong with this picture!?

Frank,

You just _whooshed_ on what the problem set truly is, as far as I can tell.

What's wrong with _your_ picture is two things about _you_ (not me!).
1. You have no intention (nor capability) to answer the questions posed.
2. You are completely _ignorant_ of the facts of the matter in this case.

Despite your utter ignorance, I'll re-state the _obvious_ facts for you:
A. K9 mail on Android worked fine _without_ a mothership account
B. K9 Mail on Android does _not_ create a Google Account on the device.

In fact, even with OAuth2, Thunderbird on Windows also did not create a
mothership account on Windows (why would it?).

Windows TB opened a browser to Google Mail the _first_ time it was set up.
Why can't FairMail do the same thing as Windows Thunderbird did for OAuth2?
--
Note: I realize Frank has no intention on being helpful but that's a
perfectly logically sensible and reasonable expectation on my part.

s|b wrote:

> Contradictio in terminis? (-:

Frank's troll is only hilarious to those who have no intention on actually
being helpful when they post, since we're trying to solve a problem here.

Please stop congratulating the trolls since Frank is ignorant but I never
expected you to be as incredibly ignorant as Frank is about OAuth2, s|b.

The fact is Thunderbird has no problem authenticating the user _without_
resorting to creation of an account on the Windows device.

Why can't FairMail do the same browser authentication that TB does?

When Thunderbird is first set up for OAuth2 with Google servers, it simply
pops up the default web browser to authenticate the account the first time.

Why wouldn't you expect Android mail user agents to do the same thing?
--
Note: I will ask the developer but please don't congratulate ignorant trols
like Frank Slootweg just proved to be. He actually "can" help. He won't.

Andy Burns wrote:

> From you posts in other groups, it seems google might be starting to be dicks
> about oauth2, people may think they made a bit of a hash over turning-off plain
> passwords for gmail, but I think most people got there in the end.
>
> But if they have to "bless" android apps to use oAuth, what's the point? Surely
> the it's up to the server to ask for creds, see what it's given and then let you
> in, or turf you out? If they require auditing the source of the client, it ll
> seems to be on its head ...

Hi Andy,
You're the only person on this newsgroup who understands the problem set.

I think I can solve it, but first I have to check with the developer to
find out why he took the shortcut to create the Google Account on the
phone.

There's no need to create that Google Account and yet the developer is
conscientious; so I assume "google made him do it" as you noted above.

I didn't read the entire XDA Developers thread on this topic as it's almost
2000 posts, but I will try to ask there why Thunderbird has no problem
authenticating OAuth2 for the first time with Google using the default web
browser and yet FairMail did not.

My question at the moment is why not.

And then, it will be how to make FairMail authenticate Google OAuth2 over
the default web browser just like Thunderbird does & has always done.

The trolls don't understand that bit of complexity; but you do.
Thanks for being intelligent.
--
The few intelligent people on this newsgroup are what make it worthwhile.

In article <t8teea$k9p$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> It's worse on iOS since you can't _not_ have a mothership account on iOS.

false, and you've been told this before.

Roger Mills wrote:

> My solution is to automatically forward the incoming
> emails to a non-gmail account, and then delete the originals.

That's always my backup plan.
But I'm hoping to solve the problem w/o needing that backup plan.

My plan up to June 30th is...
a. Android: Use password authentication in K9 mail.
b. Windows: Use OAuth2 in Thunderbird (which authenticated on a browser).

My plan after June 30th is...
a. Android: Find a MUA that works with OAuth2 and a Google mail account.
b. Windows: Continue to use Oauth2 in Thunderbird (which works fine).

What surprised me here was this _difference_ in the two MUAs:
a. Windows Thunderbird authenticated with Google OAuth2 via the web.
b. Android FairMail authenticated with Google by _creating_ an account.

Now I know why the developer was so upset at Google.
But I'm hoping there is a workaround.

Because the solution is simple (as far as I know at the moment).
Solution: Find a MUA that does exactly what Thunderbird does.

nospam wrote:

>> It's worse on iOS since you can't _not_ have a mothership account on iOS.
>
> false, and you've been told this before.

Look nospam, you and I both know that Apple _requires_ a mothership account
for iOS and for you to claim otherwise is a brazen lie on your part.

Why do you iKooks always lie about Apple facts?
I don't know why.

I suspect it's simply because you hate that fact about Apple products.
It's not something that fits into what Apple claims its all about.

And yet, the fact remains a fact whether or not you lie about that fact.

You are a despicable person who will lie every time there's a fact about
Apple that you happen to _hate_ (and yet, it's _still_ a fact about Apple).

The people on this newsgroup aren't aware that we've discussed this many
times, where there are horrendous 2-day or 3-day kludges where you "can"
install an app from the iOS app store for three days (roughly) before it
fails on you but that's just the classic clusterfuck that you iKooks
promote as a "solution".

There's also jailbreaking which is also a horrendous task on iOS simply
because Apple nullifies every jailbreak that it can (which isn't all of
them, interestingly enough, because Apple's QA is historically atrocious).

But we're not talking about jailbreaking or two-day apps in this case.

In addition, one can set up an iOS device without an account and _never_
download any apps from the app store (which is essentially what my iPads
are set up as at the moment, interestingly enough), but that makes the iPad
virtually useless.

Hence, the only "solutions" are clusterfucks that you and the iKooks
promote such as 3-day apps, jailbreaking, or an app-free iOS device.

Meanwhile, Android works perfectly fine, as does Windows 10, without
setting up the operating system to the mothership tracking servers.

It just does.
--
The instant you log into a mothership account on a mobile device, your
privacy is toast, and iOS _requires_ that mothership tracking account.

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> It's worse on iOS since you can't _not_ have a mothership account on iOS.
>>
>> false, and you've been told this before.
>
> Look nospam, you and I both know that Apple _requires_ a mothership account
> for iOS and for you to claim otherwise is a brazen lie on your part.
>
> Why do you iKooks always lie about Apple facts?
> I don't know why.
>
> I suspect it's simply because you hate that fact about Apple products.
> It's not something that fits into what Apple claims its all about.
>
> And yet, the fact remains a fact whether or not you lie about that fact.
>
> You are a despicable person who will lie every time there's a fact about
> Apple that you happen to _hate_ (and yet, it's _still_ a fact about Apple).
>
> The people on this newsgroup aren't aware that we've discussed this many
> times, where there are horrendous 2-day or 3-day kludges where you "can"
> install an app from the iOS app store for three days (roughly) before it
> fails on you but that's just the classic clusterfuck that you iKooks
> promote as a "solution".
>
> There's also jailbreaking which is also a horrendous task on iOS simply
> because Apple nullifies every jailbreak that it can (which isn't all of
> them, interestingly enough, because Apple's QA is historically atrocious).
>
> But we're not talking about jailbreaking or two-day apps in this case.
>
> In addition, one can set up an iOS device without an account and _never_
> download any apps from the app store (which is essentially what my iPads
> are set up as at the moment, interestingly enough), but that makes the iPad
> virtually useless.
>
> Hence, the only "solutions" are clusterfucks that you and the iKooks
> promote such as 3-day apps, jailbreaking, or an app-free iOS device.
>
> Meanwhile, Android works perfectly fine, as does Windows 10, without
> setting up the operating system to the mothership tracking servers.
>
> It just does.

Why isn’t Thunderbird on iOS? That just seems weird. On Linux and Windows
it had a usenet functionality. Hmmm…

22 Haziran 2022 Çarşamba tarihinde saat 05:38:33 UTC+3 itibarıyla *Hemidactylus* şunları yazdı:
> Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > nospam wrote:
> >
> >>> It's worse on iOS since you can't _not_ have a mothership account on iOS.
> >>
> >> false, and you've been told this before.
> >
> > Look nospam, you and I both know that Apple _requires_ a mothership account
> > for iOS and for you to claim otherwise is a brazen lie on your part.
> >
> > Why do you iKooks always lie about Apple facts?
> > I don't know why.
> >
> > I suspect it's simply because you hate that fact about Apple products.
> > It's not something that fits into what Apple claims its all about.
> >
> > And yet, the fact remains a fact whether or not you lie about that fact..
> >
> > You are a despicable person who will lie every time there's a fact about
> > Apple that you happen to _hate_ (and yet, it's _still_ a fact about Apple).
> >
> > The people on this newsgroup aren't aware that we've discussed this many
> > times, where there are horrendous 2-day or 3-day kludges where you "can"
> > install an app from the iOS app store for three days (roughly) before it
> > fails on you but that's just the classic clusterfuck that you iKooks
> > promote as a "solution".
> >
> > There's also jailbreaking which is also a horrendous task on iOS simply
> > because Apple nullifies every jailbreak that it can (which isn't all of
> > them, interestingly enough, because Apple's QA is historically atrocious).
> >
> > But we're not talking about jailbreaking or two-day apps in this case.
> >
> > In addition, one can set up an iOS device without an account and _never_
> > download any apps from the app store (which is essentially what my iPads
> > are set up as at the moment, interestingly enough), but that makes the iPad
> > virtually useless.
> >
> > Hence, the only "solutions" are clusterfucks that you and the iKooks
> > promote such as 3-day apps, jailbreaking, or an app-free iOS device.
> >
> > Meanwhile, Android works perfectly fine, as does Windows 10, without
> > setting up the operating system to the mothership tracking servers.
> >
> > It just does.
> Why isn’t Thunderbird on iOS? That just seems weird. On Linux and Windows
> it had a usenet functionality. Hmmm…

https://prismatattoos.com/

Am 21.06.22 um 22:22 schrieb Roger Mills:
> On 21/06/2022 15:54, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Roger Mills wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does that mean that the Thunderbird newsreader will be available on
>>>> Android?
>>>
>>> Initially it seems K9 will get some work to synchronise settings with
>>> desktop Thunderbird and then be renamed to Thunderbird for Android ...
>>
>> Thanks for that response where there's an FAQ on the subject but it's
>> light on facts, as is the published roadmap (at least the roadmap that I
>> found).
>>
>> Roadmap:
>> <https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/revealed-thunderbird-on-android-plans-k9/>
>>
>>
>> FAQ:
>> <https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-and-k-9-mail/>
>>
>
> Thanks. Sounds like a definite maybe to me!

Not to me and given the limited resources and the very very limited
market the newsreader will probably have *zero priority*.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

In article <2MqdnRB-sc45HS__nZ2dnUU7-QHNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
*Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

>
> Why isn¹t Thunderbird on iOS?

because the developers chose not to.

they refuse to fix longstanding bugs on existing versions, so why would
they embark on a version for an entirely new platform?

Am 22.06.22 um 13:28 schrieb nospam:
> In article <2MqdnRB-sc45HS__nZ2dnUU7-QHNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> *Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> Why isn¹t Thunderbird on iOS?
>
> because the developers chose not to.

False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
Difficult to accept for fanboys like you.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
> >
> > because the developers chose not to.
>
> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.

apple did no such thing.

nothing prevents them from writing an ios version, they simply chose
not to, and sine it's open source, someone else could do it if they
thought it was worth their time (it's not).

nospam wrote:

>In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz
><hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> >> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>> >
>> > because the developers chose not to.
>>
>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>
>apple did no such thing.
>
>nothing prevents them from writing an ios version, they simply chose
>not to, and sine it's open source, someone else could do it if they
>thought it was worth their time (it's not).

It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.