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He keeps differentiating, flying off on a tangent.


devel / comp.theory / Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point ? ]

SubjectAuthor
* Category errorMr Flibble
+* Category errorolcott
|`* Category errorRichard Damon
| `* Category errorolcott
|  `* Category errorRichard Damon
|   `* Category errorolcott
|    `* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|     `* Category errorolcott
|      `* Category errorRichard Damon
|       +* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|       |`* Category errorolcott
|       | `* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|       |  +- Category errorRichard Damon
|       |  `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   +* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]André G. Isaak
|       |   |`* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   | +* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]André G. Isaak
|       |   | |`* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   | | `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]André G. Isaak
|       |   | |  `- Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   | `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   |  `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   |   `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   |    `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   |     `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   |      `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |   |       `- Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |   `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |    `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |     `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |      `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |       `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       |        `* Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]olcott
|       |         `- Category error [ --KEY_INSIGHT-- ]Richard Damon
|       `* Category errorolcott
|        +* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|        |`* Category errorolcott
|        | `* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|        |  `* Category errorolcott
|        |   +* Category errorAndré G. Isaak
|        |   |`- Category errorolcott
|        |   `* Category errorRichard Damon
|        |    `* Category errorolcott
|        |     `* Category errorRichard Damon
|        |      `* Category errorolcott
|        |       `- Category errorRichard Damon
|        `- Category errorRichard Damon
+* Category errorwij
|`* Category errorMr Flibble
| `- Category errorolcott
`* Category errorMikko
 `* Category errorolcott
  +* Category errorRichard Damon
  |`* Category errorolcott
  | `- Category errorRichard Damon
  `* Category errorBen
   +* Category errorolcott
   |+- Category errorRichard Damon
   |`- Category errorBen
   `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
    +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
    `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben
     `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
      +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Malcolm McLean
      | `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      |  +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
      |  `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Malcolm McLean
      |   `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
      |    `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
      `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben
       `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
        +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
        `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben
         `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]olcott
          +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Richard Damon
          +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)olcott
          |+- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Richard Damon
          |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Ben
          | `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)olcott
          |  +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)olcott
          |  +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Richard Damon
          |  `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (clearer words)Ben
          |   `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)olcott
          |    +- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)Richard Damon
          |    `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)Ben
          |     +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)olcott
          |     |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)Ben
          |     | `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Ben
          |     |  |+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  ||+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Richard Damon
          |     |  |||+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  ||||`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Richard Damon
          |     |  |||| `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  ||||  `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Richard Damon
          |     |  |||`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Malcolm McLean
          |     |  ||| `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  |||  `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[Richard Damon
          |     |  ||`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Ben
          |     |  |+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  |+* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  |`* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[olcott
          |     |  `- Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)[ Ben is a Liar ]Richard Damon
          |     `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ] (smart honest people would agree)olcott
          +* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Python
          `* Category error [ HEAD GAMES ]Ben

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Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point ? ]

<YqUiK.3448$PW.997@fx39.iad>

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Subject: Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point
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From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
In-Reply-To: <5fWdnSrkmPKuERb_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
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 by: Richard Damon - Mon, 23 May 2022 23:05 UTC

On 5/23/22 9:29 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/23/2022 6:55 AM, Python wrote:
>> Peter Olcott wrote:
>>> ... it is non-halting regardless of whether or not it stops running.
>>
>> This is quite a serious cognitive dissonance to be able to
>> write down such a sentence and believe it.
>>
>> Cancer is not the worse illness you have, Peter.
>>
>>
>
> computation that halts … the Turing machine will halt whenever it enters
> a final state. (Linz:1990:234)
>
> Linz, Peter 1990. An Introduction to Formal Languages and Automata.
> Lexington/Toronto: D. C. Heath and Company.
>
>

Right, and nothing you have done shows that the TURING MACHINE didn't
halt when the Turing Machine that represent your decider said it wouldnt't

All you have done with all your arguments is prove that you just don't
understand what that is saying.

A partial simulation is NOT a Turing Machine, or shows what a Turing
Machine would do.

To make your arguments, you FIRST need to define the EXACT algorithm
your H uses, and once that is fixed, it becomes clear that for whatever
algorithm you give it, it is wrong about H^/P not halting.

All your proof over "All H" does is prove that NO H, built by your
template can ever prove that this H^/P will Halt, which does NOT prove
that it is non-Halting.

You logic is FULL of inconsistencies like the above that have been
pointed out to you. Your inability to see them shows a lack of logical
processing in your brain.

Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point ? ]

<7sUiK.3449$PW.51@fx39.iad>

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From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
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 by: Richard Damon - Mon, 23 May 2022 23:06 UTC

On 5/23/22 10:33 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/23/2022 8:58 AM, Python wrote:
>> Peter Olcott, demented kook, wrote:
>>> On 5/23/2022 6:55 AM, Python wrote:
>>>> Peter Olcott wrote:
>>>>> ... it is non-halting regardless of whether or not it stops running.
>>>>
>>>> This is quite a serious cognitive dissonance to be able to
>>>> write down such a sentence and believe it.
>>>>
>>>> Cancer is not the worse illness you have, Peter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> computation that halts … the Turing machine will halt whenever it
>>> enters a final state. (Linz:1990:234)
>>>
>>> Linz, Peter 1990. An Introduction to Formal Languages and Automata.
>>> Lexington/Toronto: D. C. Heath and Company.
>>
>> This is not even remotely related to your absurd claims, come on Peter!
>>
>>
>
> Halting DOES NOT MEAN STOPS RUNNING,
> Halting means reaches its final state.
>
And the fact that H stopped running P doesn't mean that it is Non-Halting.

Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point ? ]

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Subject: Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point
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From: Rich...@Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
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 by: Richard Damon - Mon, 23 May 2022 23:25 UTC

On 5/23/22 10:38 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/23/2022 9:26 AM, Ben wrote:
>> Python <python@example.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> Peter Olcott wrote:
>>>> ... it is non-halting regardless of whether or not it stops running.
>>>
>>> This is quite a serious cognitive dissonance to be able to
>>> write down such a sentence and believe it.
>>
>> This is not a unique case.  He really thinks in this way.  For example
>>
>>    "The fact the a computation stops running does not prove that it
>>    halts."
>>
>
> Since I proved that this is correct on the basis of the Linz definition
> and you know that it is correct on this basis that makes you a
> despicable liar. What is your motive for being a despicable liar?
>
> YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS TRUE
> A computation that has been aborted stops running yet never halts.
>

A computation CAN'T be 'aborted'. The execution of an instance of it
might be, but the computation itself, which is a mathematical concept,
can't be, and ALWAYS runs to completion.

Your comment just proves you don't understand what a computation is.

Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point ? ]

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Subject: Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point
? ]
From: dbush.mo...@gmail.com (Dennis Bush)
Injection-Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 00:48:08 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Dennis Bush - Tue, 24 May 2022 00:48 UTC

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 2:51:23 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
> On 5/23/2022 1:39 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
> > On 5/23/2022 5:55 AM, Python wrote:
> >> Peter Olcott wrote:
> >>> ... it is non-halting regardless of whether or not it stops running.
> >>
> >> This is quite a serious cognitive dissonance to be able to
> >> write down such a sentence and believe it.
> >>
> >> Cancer is not the worse illness you have, Peter.
> > Insightful observation. I have been curious, since he is now a
> > pathological liar, whether he lies about cancer too. I wouldn't be
> > surprised. As to cognitive disorders, I believe he his learning
> > disabilities compounded by the attention span of a roach. I don't
> > believe that any thing said here will cure any of his observed issues.
> >
> > As a test, I speculate he will respond to this message, if at all, with
> > either many identical lines of capitol letters or yet another copy of
> > his faked up trace. Gentlemen, Place Your Bets!
> _P()
> [00001352](01) 55 push ebp
> [00001353](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> [00001355](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001358](01) 50 push eax // push P
> [00001359](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [0000135c](01) 51 push ecx // push P
> [0000135d](05) e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
> [00001362](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> [00001365](02) 85c0 test eax,eax
> [00001367](02) 7402 jz 0000136b
> [00001369](02) ebfe jmp 00001369
> [0000136b](01) 5d pop ebp
> [0000136c](01) c3 ret
> Size in bytes:(0027) [0000136c]
> People with sufficient technical competence that are not God damned
> liars can easily verify that the following trace provided for the x86
> emulated input to H(P,P) for one emulation and one nested emulation is
> correct entirely on the basis of the above x86 source code for P.
> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:212352
> ...[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55 push ebp // enter P
> ...[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec mov ebp,esp
> ...[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
> ...[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
> ...[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
> ...[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55 push ebp // enter P
> ...[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec mov ebp,esp
> ...[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> ...[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
> ...[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> ...[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
> ...[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
> --

50 Internet points for Jeff Barnett!

Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point ? ]

<t6hahs$1orq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=32959&group=comp.theory#32959

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.theory
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!CC3uK9WYEoa7s1kzH7komw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: news.dea...@darjeeling.plus.com (Mike Terry)
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point
? ]
Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 01:57:31 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t6hahs$1orq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Mike Terry - Tue, 24 May 2022 00:57 UTC

On 24/05/2022 01:48, Dennis Bush wrote:
> On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 2:51:23 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/23/2022 1:39 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>> On 5/23/2022 5:55 AM, Python wrote:
>>>> Peter Olcott wrote:
>>>>> ... it is non-halting regardless of whether or not it stops running.
>>>>
>>>> This is quite a serious cognitive dissonance to be able to
>>>> write down such a sentence and believe it.
>>>>
>>>> Cancer is not the worse illness you have, Peter.
>>> Insightful observation. I have been curious, since he is now a
>>> pathological liar, whether he lies about cancer too. I wouldn't be
>>> surprised. As to cognitive disorders, I believe he his learning
>>> disabilities compounded by the attention span of a roach. I don't
>>> believe that any thing said here will cure any of his observed issues.
>>>
>>> As a test, I speculate he will respond to this message, if at all, with
>>> either many identical lines of capitol letters or yet another copy of
>>> his faked up trace. Gentlemen, Place Your Bets!
>> _P()
>> [00001352](01) 55 push ebp
>> [00001353](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> [00001355](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> [00001358](01) 50 push eax // push P
>> [00001359](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> [0000135c](01) 51 push ecx // push P
>> [0000135d](05) e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>> [00001362](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>> [00001365](02) 85c0 test eax,eax
>> [00001367](02) 7402 jz 0000136b
>> [00001369](02) ebfe jmp 00001369
>> [0000136b](01) 5d pop ebp
>> [0000136c](01) c3 ret
>> Size in bytes:(0027) [0000136c]
>> People with sufficient technical competence that are not God damned
>> liars can easily verify that the following trace provided for the x86
>> emulated input to H(P,P) for one emulation and one nested emulation is
>> correct entirely on the basis of the above x86 source code for P.
>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:212352
>> ...[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55 push ebp // enter P
>> ...[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> ...[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> ...[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
>> ...[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> ...[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
>> ...[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>> ...[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55 push ebp // enter P
>> ...[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> ...[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> ...[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
>> ...[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> ...[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
>> ...[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>> --
>
> 50 Internet points for Jeff Barnett!
>

But he might be sharing them 25:25 with PO. :)

Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point ? ]

<t6hnul$ccu$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=33002&group=comp.theory#33002

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.theory
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jbb...@notatt.com (Jeff Barnett)
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Are my reviewers incompetent or dishonest? [ closure on one point
? ]
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 22:46:08 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jeff Barnett - Tue, 24 May 2022 04:46 UTC

On 5/23/2022 6:57 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
> On 24/05/2022 01:48, Dennis Bush wrote:
>> On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 2:51:23 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/23/2022 1:39 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>>> On 5/23/2022 5:55 AM, Python wrote:
>>>>> Peter Olcott wrote:
>>>>>> ... it is non-halting regardless of whether or not it stops running.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is quite a serious cognitive dissonance to be able to
>>>>> write down such a sentence and believe it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cancer is not the worse illness you have, Peter.
>>>> Insightful observation. I have been curious, since he is now a
>>>> pathological liar, whether he lies about cancer too. I wouldn't be
>>>> surprised. As to cognitive disorders, I believe he his learning
>>>> disabilities compounded by the attention span of a roach. I don't
>>>> believe that any thing said here will cure any of his observed issues.
>>>>
>>>> As a test, I speculate he will respond to this message, if at all, with
>>>> either many identical lines of capitol letters or yet another copy of
>>>> his faked up trace. Gentlemen, Place Your Bets!
>>> _P()
>>> [00001352](01) 55 push ebp
>>> [00001353](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> [00001355](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> [00001358](01) 50 push eax // push P
>>> [00001359](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> [0000135c](01) 51 push ecx // push P
>>> [0000135d](05) e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>> [00001362](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>>> [00001365](02) 85c0 test eax,eax
>>> [00001367](02) 7402 jz 0000136b
>>> [00001369](02) ebfe jmp 00001369
>>> [0000136b](01) 5d pop ebp
>>> [0000136c](01) c3 ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0027) [0000136c]
>>> People with sufficient technical competence that are not God damned
>>> liars can easily verify that the following trace provided for the x86
>>> emulated input to H(P,P) for one emulation and one nested emulation is
>>> correct entirely on the basis of the above x86 source code for P.
>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:212352
>>> ...[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55 push ebp // enter P
>>> ...[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> ...[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
>>> ...[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
>>> ...[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>> ...[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55 push ebp // enter P
>>> ...[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> ...[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
>>> ...[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
>>> ...[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>> --
>>
>> 50 Internet points for Jeff Barnett!
>>
>
> But he might be sharing them 25:25 with PO.  :)
Parish the thought! PO, like so many others with personality disorders,
does what he does with no inner control on his behaviors. He quit
reading what I had wrote and was heading for his copy and paste gun
before he even glanced at my last paragraph. His attention span is so
tiny that he can absorb nothing by reading; there is no thread of
argument so short that he can read til the end.
--
Jeff Barnett

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