Hi there u.c.h. Looking for input on a small form factor build. My
requirements are:

1. Will be running Linux (Debian or similar)
2. After being setup will be run headless under the stairs and
accessed mostly via SSH for maintenance.
3. Will be used to run lots of servers and daemons, example:
a. Web Server
b. SFTP Server
c. SSHD
d. VPN
e. MediaGoblin
f. Diaspora / Mastadon
g. PeerTube
h. any Fediverse thingy
4. Needs a "little" flexibility in powers for future projects
that might be:
a. Compiling C/C++ code for FOSS

I have considered CPUs with no integrated graphics but am worried about
setting it up with no monitor for backup, all over SSH. That could drop
the CPU price below 100, but again flexibility.

I have gone for 1x16Gb card rather than 2x8Gb DDR4s to leave one slot
open to expand to 32Gb in future but am wondering if that will ever be
needed on this build. Would 2x8Gb be better? If it becomes a problem I
could always swap out for 1x16Gb.

Also wondering if a SSD is needed, would a HDD suffice in this
situation. I was thinking OS and servers on SDD, data like images and
videos on the HDD?

So this is what I have so far (no cooling yet):

PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/wwZwRv

CPU: Intel Core i5-10400 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor
(£128.96 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: ASRock H510M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard
(£101.38 @ NeoComputers)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (1 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
(£39.99 @ Corsair UK)
Storage: Kingston A400 240 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
(£49.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM HDD
(£44.99 @ AWD-IT)
Case: Silverstone SG13 Mini ITX Tower Case
(£55.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 W 80+ Bronze ATX

Total: £420.78

A version with 2x8Gb, i3 and no SDD would be:

PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/x6bKW4

CPU: Intel Core i3-10100 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor
(£95.00 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: ASRock H510M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard
(£101.38 @ NeoComputers)
Memory: Crucial CT2K8G4DFS824A 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2400 CL17 Memory
(£32.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM HDD
(£44.99 @ AWD-IT)
Case: Silverstone SG13 Mini ITX Tower Case
(£55.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 W 80+ Bronze ATX

Total: £329.83

I would also consider a H410M but PCPartPicker doesn't list one. So what
do you all think, am I on the right track, any bottlenecks or bloat?

Would really appreciate your input. Many thanks.

RenMas

--
Don't be afraid of the deep...
--[ bbs.bottomlessabyss.net | https | telnet=2023 ]--
--[ /query geeknix on libera.chat | tilde.chat ]--

On 02/05/2023 00:00, Geeknix wrote:
> Hi there u.c.h. Looking for input on a small form factor build. My
> requirements are:
>
> 1. Will be running Linux (Debian or similar)
> 2. After being setup will be run headless under the stairs and
> accessed mostly via SSH for maintenance.

Why not get some type of Pi? Raspberry Pi 4 is solid. The Orange Pi 5 is
remarkably quick (Orange Pi 5 may be also be solid as a headless server,
I haven't tested, the GPU drivers are currently buggy). The idle power
on a Pi is 2-3 watts, ideal for heat in small spaces, and good for the
energy cost of an always on server.

Pancho wrote:

> Geeknix wrote:
>
>> Looking for input on a small form factor build.
>
> Why not get some type of Pi?

Or a "one-litre" system, see newer entries in the the Project
TinyMiniMicro playlist ...

<https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC53fzn9608B-MT5KvuuHct5MiUDO8IF4>

On 02/05/2023 00:00, Geeknix wrote:
> Hi there u.c.h. Looking for input on a small form factor build. My
> requirements are:
>
> 1. Will be running Linux (Debian or similar)
> 2. After being setup will be run headless under the stairs and
> accessed mostly via SSH for maintenance.
> 3. Will be used to run lots of servers and daemons, example:
> a. Web Server
> b. SFTP Server
> c. SSHD
> d. VPN
> e. MediaGoblin
> f. Diaspora / Mastadon
> g. PeerTube
> h. any Fediverse thingy
> 4. Needs a "little" flexibility in powers for future projects
> that might be:
> a. Compiling C/C++ code for FOSS
>
> I have considered CPUs with no integrated graphics but am worried about
> setting it up with no monitor for backup, all over SSH. That could drop
> the CPU price below 100, but again flexibility.
>
> I have gone for 1x16Gb card rather than 2x8Gb DDR4s to leave one slot
> open to expand to 32Gb in future but am wondering if that will ever be
> needed on this build. Would 2x8Gb be better? If it becomes a problem I
> could always swap out for 1x16Gb.
>
> Also wondering if a SSD is needed, would a HDD suffice in this
> situation. I was thinking OS and servers on SDD, data like images and
> videos on the HDD?
>
> So this is what I have so far (no cooling yet):
>
> PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/wwZwRv
>
> CPU: Intel Core i5-10400 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor
> (£128.96 @ Amazon UK)
> Motherboard: ASRock H510M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard
> (£101.38 @ NeoComputers)
> Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (1 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
> (£39.99 @ Corsair UK)
> Storage: Kingston A400 240 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
> (£49.99 @ Amazon UK)
> Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM HDD
> (£44.99 @ AWD-IT)
> Case: Silverstone SG13 Mini ITX Tower Case
> (£55.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
> Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 W 80+ Bronze ATX
>
> Total: £420.78
>
>
> A version with 2x8Gb, i3 and no SDD would be:
>
> PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/x6bKW4
>
> CPU: Intel Core i3-10100 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor
> (£95.00 @ Amazon UK)
> Motherboard: ASRock H510M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard
> (£101.38 @ NeoComputers)
> Memory: Crucial CT2K8G4DFS824A 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2400 CL17 Memory
> (£32.99 @ Amazon UK)
> Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM HDD
> (£44.99 @ AWD-IT)
> Case: Silverstone SG13 Mini ITX Tower Case
> (£55.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
> Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 W 80+ Bronze ATX
>
> Total: £329.83
>
> I would also consider a H410M but PCPartPicker doesn't list one. So what
> do you all think, am I on the right track, any bottlenecks or bloat?
>
> Would really appreciate your input. Many thanks.
>
> RenMas
>
>
>
There are plenty of DELL and Lenovo SFF PC on E bay under £200.
I had few of these, lovely units, sold in days, One like this:

Dell Precision 3420 i7 7700 3.60GHz 8GB Ram 512GB NVMe SSD

Geeknix <usenet@apple.geeknix135.net> wrote:
> Hi there u.c.h. Looking for input on a small form factor build. My
> requirements are:

Assuming this is intended to be a low cost build, every watt you consume
24/7 will cost you £3 over the course of a year. So that allows you to do
the numbers on efficiency.

The CPUs you have there are 3 years old. That's not wrong per se,
especially if you want to stay on the cheap DDR4 platform, but just so you
know. Older generations are often worse on power efficiency, although the
new stuff (12/13th gen) can be run hot - effectively there's an official
overclocking mode that gets slightly better performance for a lot more power.

When I was planning such a system, my hitlist was the G-series Ryzens, which
had good CPU performance with enough integrated graphics for BIOS etc that
you need on a server without paying the power penalty of an external GPU.
eg 5750G, although that was hard to get. However now the 7000 series come
with integrated graphics so you don't have to go out of the way to get a G
series any more. The Ryzen 7000s are DDR5, which is more expensive, but are
more performant (eg for software build).

In the end I didn't order, and now have an old HP Microserver (mostly turned
off to save power) and a Pi 4 on 24/7.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Geeknix <usenet@apple.geeknix135.net> wrote:
> > Hi there u.c.h. Looking for input on a small form factor build. My
> > requirements are:
>
> Assuming this is intended to be a low cost build, every watt you consume
> 24/7 will cost you £3 over the course of a year. So that allows you to do
> the numbers on efficiency.
>
> The CPUs you have there are 3 years old. That's not wrong per se,
> especially if you want to stay on the cheap DDR4 platform, but just so you
> know. Older generations are often worse on power efficiency, although the
> new stuff (12/13th gen) can be run hot - effectively there's an official
> overclocking mode that gets slightly better performance for a lot more power.

Forgot to mention one thing about the 12/13th gen Intel CPUs - they have a
mix of Performance and Efficiency cores. The E-cores (essentially Atom
designs) can be useful for reducing your idle power - you aren't completely
idle running various background things, but it's lower power than of
spinning up the bigger P-cores (which are similar to those in previous
i3/i5/i7s). Ryzens don't have that so, while they're more power efficient
under load, the Intel E-cores are good for idle power.

Theo

On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 9:38:54 AM UTC+1, Raj Kundra wrote:
> On 02/05/2023 00:00, Geeknix wrote:
> > Hi there u.c.h. Looking for input on a small form factor build. My
> > requirements are:
> >
> > 1. Will be running Linux (Debian or similar)
> > 2. After being setup will be run headless under the stairs and
> > accessed mostly via SSH for maintenance.
> > 3. Will be used to run lots of servers and daemons, example:
> > a. Web Server
> > b. SFTP Server
> > c. SSHD
> > d. VPN
> > e. MediaGoblin
> > f. Diaspora / Mastadon
> > g. PeerTube
> > h. any Fediverse thingy
> > 4. Needs a "little" flexibility in powers for future projects
> > that might be:
> > a. Compiling C/C++ code for FOSS
> >
> > I have considered CPUs with no integrated graphics but am worried about
> > setting it up with no monitor for backup, all over SSH. That could drop
> > the CPU price below 100, but again flexibility.
> >
> > I have gone for 1x16Gb card rather than 2x8Gb DDR4s to leave one slot
> > open to expand to 32Gb in future but am wondering if that will ever be
> > needed on this build. Would 2x8Gb be better? If it becomes a problem I
> > could always swap out for 1x16Gb.
> >
> > Also wondering if a SSD is needed, would a HDD suffice in this
> > situation. I was thinking OS and servers on SDD, data like images and
> > videos on the HDD?
> >
> > So this is what I have so far (no cooling yet):
> >
> > PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/wwZwRv
> >
> > CPU: Intel Core i5-10400 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor
> > (£128.96 @ Amazon UK)
> > Motherboard: ASRock H510M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard
> > (£101.38 @ NeoComputers)
> > Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (1 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
> > (£39.99 @ Corsair UK)
> > Storage: Kingston A400 240 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
> > (£49.99 @ Amazon UK)
> > Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM HDD
> > (£44.99 @ AWD-IT)
> > Case: Silverstone SG13 Mini ITX Tower Case
> > (£55.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
> > Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 W 80+ Bronze ATX
> >
> > Total: £420.78
> >
> >
> > A version with 2x8Gb, i3 and no SDD would be:
> >
> > PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/x6bKW4
> >
> > CPU: Intel Core i3-10100 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor
> > (£95.00 @ Amazon UK)
> > Motherboard: ASRock H510M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1200 Motherboard
> > (£101.38 @ NeoComputers)
> > Memory: Crucial CT2K8G4DFS824A 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2400 CL17 Memory
> > (£32.99 @ Amazon UK)
> > Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM HDD
> > (£44.99 @ AWD-IT)
> > Case: Silverstone SG13 Mini ITX Tower Case
> > (£55.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
> > Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 W 80+ Bronze ATX
> >
> > Total: £329.83
> >
> > I would also consider a H410M but PCPartPicker doesn't list one. So what
> > do you all think, am I on the right track, any bottlenecks or bloat?
> >
> > Would really appreciate your input. Many thanks.
> >
> > RenMas
> >
> >
> >
> There are plenty of DELL and Lenovo SFF PC on E bay under £200.
> I had few of these, lovely units, sold in days, One like this:
>
> Dell Precision 3420 i7 7700 3.60GHz 8GB Ram 512GB NVMe SSD

Yes, I have a couple of the Lenovo Tiny USFF units, and like them a lot
for this sort of thing. Agreed that you could probably get a better with
the power consumption on a more modern unit, but you'd have to pay
more up front.

J^n

On 02/05/2023 09:38, Raj Kundra wrote:
> On 02/05/2023 00:00, Geeknix wrote:
>> Hi there u.c.h. Looking for input on a small form factor build. My
>> requirements are:
>>

<snip>

>>
>>
> There are plenty of DELL and Lenovo SFF PC on E bay under £200.
> I had few of these, lovely units, sold in days, One like this:
>
> Dell Precision 3420 i7 7700 3.60GHz 8GB Ram 512GB NVMe SSD
>

+1

Also...

Lenovo ThinkStation M910s Desktop PC Computer i7-6700 8GB 250GB SSD
WINDOWS 10

Bought off eBay for £99 which was a bit of a steal for me, though I use
it as a desktop.

Flies, uses DDR4 and runs Debian perfectly. There are 1 Litre versions
of these, but if looking to save power probably more beneficial to look
at your choice of CPU than the internal volume of the unit.

For the OP's use case, I'd just install Proxmox VE on it, and then
virtual machines on top for the roles - or go down the running container
route.

Plenty of tutorials on YouTube. Suggest the "Techno Tim" channel as a
starter.

--
Adrian C