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computers / comp.misc / Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

SubjectAuthor
* The Beauty of Finished SoftwareBen Collver
+- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareStefan Ram
+- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareStefan Ram
+- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareStefan Ram
+* Re: The Beauty of Finished Softwareyeti
|+* Re: The Beauty of Finished Softwarecr0c0d1le
||`* Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareJulieta Shem
|| `- Re: The Beauty of Finished Softwareyeti
|`- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareJulieta Shem
`* Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareThe Real Bev
 +- Re: The Beauty of Finished Softwareyeti
 +* Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareRetrograde
 |+* Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareBob Eager
 ||`- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareRich
 |+- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareAndreas Eder
 |`- Re: The Beauty of Finished Softwareimmibis
 `* Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareKees Nuyt
  +* Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareThe Real Bev
  |`- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareThe Real Bev
  `- Re: The Beauty of Finished SoftwareNyssa

1
The Beauty of Finished Software

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From: bencoll...@tilde.pink (Ben Collver)
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 by: Ben Collver - Mon, 1 Jan 2024 18:03 UTC

# The Beauty of Finished Software

by Jose M. Gilgado
October 31, 2023

Let me introduce you to WordStar 4.0, a popular word processor from
the early 80s.

[Screenshot]

As old as it seems, George R.R. Martin used it to write
"A Song of Ice and Fire".

Why would someone use such an old piece of software to write over
5,000 pages? I love how he puts it:

> It does everything I want a word processing program to do and it
> doesn't do anything else. I don't want any help. I hate some of
> these modern systems where you type up a lowercase letter and it
> becomes a capital. I don't want a capital, if I'd wanted a capital,
> I would have typed the capital.
> --George R.R. Martin

This program embodies the concept of finished software--a software
you can use forever with no unneeded changes.

Finished software is software that’s not expected to change, and
that’s a feature! You can rely on it to do some real work.

Once you get used to the software, once the software works for you,
you don’t need to learn anything new; the interface will exactly be
the same, and all your files will stay relevant. No migrations, no
new payments, no new changes.

This kind of software can be created intentionally, with a compromise
from the creators that they won’t bother you with things you don’t
need, and only the absolutely necessary will change, like minor
updates to make it compatible with new operating systems.

Sometimes, finished software happens accidentally; maybe the company
behind it has disappeared, or the product has been abandoned.

There are also some great examples in the UNIX world of finished
software: commands like cd (to change the current directory) or ls
(to list what’s there) won’t ever change in a significant way. You
can rely on them until the end of your career.

# The seduction of constant updates

Our expectations for software are different from other products we
use in our daily lives.

When we buy a physical product, we accept that it won’t change in its
lifetime. We’ll use it until it wears off, and we replace it. We can
rely on that product not evolving; the gas pedal in my car will
always be in the same place.

However, when it comes to software, we usually have the ingrained
expectations of perpetual updates. We believe that if software
doesn’t evolve it’ll be boring, old and unusable. If we see an app
with no updates in the last year, we think the creator might be dead.

We also expect new versions of any software will be better than the
previous ones. Once it’s released, most of our problems will be
solved! What a deceiving lie.

Sometimes, a software upgrade is a step backward: less usable, less
stable, with new bugs. Even if it’s genuinely better, there’s the
learning curve. You were efficient with the old version, but now your
most used button is on the other side of the screen under a hidden
menu.

# Finished software is a good reminder

In a world where constant change is the norm, finished software
provides a breath of fresh air. It’s a reminder that reliability,
consistency, and user satisfaction can coexist in the realm of
software development.

So the next time you find yourself yearning for the latest update,
remember that sometimes, the best software is the one that doesn’t
change at all.

# References

[1] George R.R. Martin in Conan show (2014).
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5REM-3nWHg>

From: <https://josem.co/the-beauty-of-finished-software/>

Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

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 by: Stefan Ram - Mon, 1 Jan 2024 18:35 UTC

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:
>Subject: The Beauty of Finished Software

I have so many programming /projects/. It would be nice
if I would ever finish one of those!

>> I hate some of
>>these modern systems where you type up a lowercase letter and it
>>becomes a capital.

Often, one can just go to the "Settings" dialog and turn this off.

>Finished software is software that’s not expected to change, and
>that’s a feature! You can rely on it to do some real work.

Another example would be Donald Knuth's TeX.

>In a world where constant change is the norm, finished software
>provides a breath of fresh air.

Payment models are important for software manufacturers today,
where something comes in annually from the customers who use
the software. This may be possible with constant software, but
perhaps they at least want to give customers the illusion of
constant "improvements". Internet connections are a great idea for
this, because then threats can be identified that require constant
"security patches" by the manufacturer to defend against them.
Bugs also help.

Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

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 by: Stefan Ram - Mon, 1 Jan 2024 18:47 UTC

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:
>Why would someone use such an old piece of software to write over
>5,000 pages?

A quotations about pencil programming:

|When I wrote TeX originally in 1977 and '78, of course I
|didn't have literate programming but I did have structured
|programming. I wrote it in a big notebook in longhand, in
|pencil. Six months later, after I had gone through the whole
|project, I started typing into the computer.

, another one, about a different programmer named "André":

|He declined offers of typing help, and just kept writing away
|in pencil. He rewrote parts, copied things over, erased and
|rewrote. Finally André took his neat final pencil copy to a
|terminal and typed the whole program in (...) the VTOC
|manager worked perfectly from then on.

.

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 by: Stefan Ram - Mon, 1 Jan 2024 19:20 UTC

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:
>Why would someone use such an old piece of software to write over
>5,000 pages?

And the Web says:

|Harry Potter was written on a typewriter because Miss
|Rowling, a single mother at the time, couldn't afford
|a computer.
Web.

Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

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 by: yeti - Mon, 1 Jan 2024 19:28 UTC

In today's WordStar I'd want to have Eshell, Org/Babel and Tramp.

--
^K ^Q X

Ooops!
Wrong window!

Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

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 by: cr0c0d1le - Mon, 1 Jan 2024 19:35 UTC

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

> In today's WordStar I'd want to have Eshell, Org/Babel and Tramp.
Ah, I See You're a Man of Culture As Well.

Tramp can be a PITA sometimes, though. I shall add Gnus to your list.

Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

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From: jsh...@yaxenu.org (Julieta Shem)
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 by: Julieta Shem - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 04:05 UTC

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

> In today's WordStar I'd want to have Eshell, Org/Babel and Tramp.

I'd want scribble. The book is a program.

Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

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 by: Julieta Shem - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 04:05 UTC

cr0c0d1le <cr0c0d1le.ewlkg@8shield.net> writes:

> yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:
>
>> In today's WordStar I'd want to have Eshell, Org/Babel and Tramp.
> Ah, I See You're a Man of Culture As Well.
>
> Tramp can be a PITA sometimes, though. I shall add Gnus to your list.

With Gnus you'll never get anything done. :)

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 by: yeti - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 17:35 UTC

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

> cr0c0d1le <cr0c0d1le.ewlkg@8shield.net> writes:
>
>> yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:
>>
>>> In today's WordStar I'd want to have Eshell, Org/Babel and Tramp.
>> Ah, I See You're a Man of Culture As Well.
>>
>> Tramp can be a PITA sometimes, though. I shall add Gnus to your list.
>
> With Gnus you'll never get anything done. :)

I spend a lot of time in Org/Babel, but yes: Even more in GNUS.

--
GNUS. The final frontier. They say GNUS has more than 800 commands and
functions. Just call them SPELLs! So who needs other MUDs? Be a hero!
Survive world wide Emacs. Survive GNUS! (20231209T2338/yeti)

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 by: The Real Bev - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 03:35 UTC

On 1/1/24 10:03 AM, Ben Collver wrote:

> Why would someone use such an old piece of software to write over
> 5,000 pages? I love how he puts it:
>
>> It does everything I want a word processing program to do and it
>> doesn't do anything else. I don't want any help. I hate some of
>> these modern systems where you type up a lowercase letter and it
>> becomes a capital. I don't want a capital, if I'd wanted a capital,
>> I would have typed the capital.
>> --George R.R. Martin

Good for him! I liked WS a lot. There's a linux look-alike (can't
remember the name) which I tried and decided I didn't want to use it --
but I felt bad about it. If I have to write something pretty I'll use
LibreOffice, but I don't need to do that often enough to get really good
at it like I was with WS.

The past is a long time ago.

And Game of Thrones was better than the book.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Why put fault tolerance in the OS, when it's already built
into the User?" -- Steve Shaw, regarding Win95

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 by: yeti - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 10:19 UTC

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:

> On 1/1/24 10:03 AM, Ben Collver wrote:

> I liked WS a lot. There's a linux look-alike (can't remember the
> name) which I tried and decided I didn't want to use it

Jstar? Joe configured to mimic WS key commands.

<https://joe-editor.sourceforge.io/>

Despite having a WS history, I preferred Joe's Jmacs. Its nice to have
a choice!

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

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 by: Retrograde - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:15 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good for him! I liked WS a lot. There's a linux look-alike (can't
> remember the name) which I tried and decided I didn't want to use it --

There are several, now. I use JOE (Joe's own editor), whose jstar mode
emulates WS well-enough for me. There's also WordTsar, who aims to
replicate it exactly.
http://wordtsar.ca

Their website is a hoot: "the keyboard controls we love -- the user
interface we all know, etc." Fun to see this running on a Mac though.
I'm going to take a laptop with 32GB of RAM and run a binary whose
original version ran in, what, 16MB in DOS? What will you do with all
your extra RAM not otherwise in use?

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 by: Kees Nuyt - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 18:10 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> I liked WordStar a lot.

Yummy, WordStar on CP/M on a North Star Horizon [Z80] computer.
--
Kees Nuyt

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 by: The Real Bev - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 19:38 UTC

On 1/4/24 10:10 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I liked WordStar a lot.
>
> Yummy, WordStar on CP/M on a North Star Horizon [Z80] computer.

Hubby wrote software for the Horizon. A lot of cross-assemblers and
some other stuff. I still have the masters for the documentation and
I'm sure he still has the software. Somewhere, in a safe place...

--
Cheers, Bev
I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the
same manner that fish follow migrating caribou.
-- Paul Tomblin

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 by: Bob Eager - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 20:24 UTC

On Thu, 04 Jan 2024 12:15:05 -0500, Retrograde wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800 The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Good for him! I liked WS a lot. There's a linux look-alike (can't
>> remember the name) which I tried and decided I didn't want to use it --
>
> There are several, now. I use JOE (Joe's own editor), whose jstar mode
> emulates WS well-enough for me. There's also WordTsar, who aims to
> replicate it exactly.
> http://wordtsar.ca
>
> Their website is a hoot: "the keyboard controls we love -- the user
> interface we all know, etc." Fun to see this running on a Mac though.
> I'm going to take a laptop with 32GB of RAM and run a binary whose
> original version ran in, what, 16MB in DOS? What will you do with all
> your extra RAM not otherwise in use?

Did you mean to say 16MB?

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Re: The Beauty of Finished Software

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 by: Nyssa - Thu, 4 Jan 2024 21:08 UTC

Kees Nuyt wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I liked WordStar a lot.
>
> Yummy, WordStar on CP/M on a North Star Horizon [Z80]
> computer.

WordStar on a MicroBrain (Z80) on CP/M for me.

I non-document mode for writing programs. :)

Nyssa, who used WS for years until she discovered AmiPro

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 by: The Real Bev - Fri, 5 Jan 2024 05:14 UTC

On 1/4/24 11:38 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/4/24 10:10 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800, The Real Bev
>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I liked WordStar a lot.
>>
>> Yummy, WordStar on CP/M on a North Star Horizon [Z80] computer.
>
> Hubby wrote software for the Horizon. A lot of cross-assemblers and
> some other stuff. I still have the masters for the documentation and
> I'm sure he still has the software. Somewhere, in a safe place...

The first thing was PDS (Program Development System). Everything you
need to write assembly language programs to do whatever you want.

--
Cheers, Bev
Organized people will never know the sheer joyous ecstasy of finding
something that was believed to have been irretrievably lost.
-- D. Stern

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 by: Andreas Eder - Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:21 UTC

On Do 04 Jan 2024 at 12:15, Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Good for him! I liked WS a lot. There's a linux look-alike (can't
>> remember the name) which I tried and decided I didn't want to use it --
>
> There are several, now. I use JOE (Joe's own editor), whose jstar mode
> emulates WS well-enough for me. There's also WordTsar, who aims to
> replicate it exactly.
> http://wordtsar.ca
>
> Their website is a hoot: "the keyboard controls we love -- the user
> interface we all know, etc." Fun to see this running on a Mac though.
> I'm going to take a laptop with 32GB of RAM and run a binary whose
> original version ran in, what, 16MB in DOS? What will you do with all
> your extra RAM not otherwise in use?

On my Osborne I on CP/M I had Wordstar run in 64K. Imagine that!

'Andreas

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 by: Rich - Sat, 6 Jan 2024 16:47 UTC

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Jan 2024 12:15:05 -0500, Retrograde wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35:26 -0800 The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good for him! I liked WS a lot. There's a linux look-alike (can't
>>> remember the name) which I tried and decided I didn't want to use it --
>>
>> There are several, now. I use JOE (Joe's own editor), whose jstar mode
>> emulates WS well-enough for me. There's also WordTsar, who aims to
>> replicate it exactly.
>> http://wordtsar.ca
>>
>> Their website is a hoot: "the keyboard controls we love -- the user
>> interface we all know, etc." Fun to see this running on a Mac though.
>> I'm going to take a laptop with 32GB of RAM and run a binary whose
>> original version ran in, what, 16MB in DOS? What will you do with all
>> your extra RAM not otherwise in use?
>
> Did you mean to say 16MB?

Less than that, by four times, at least.

I ran WordStar 7.0d, under DesqView on top of MSDOS, with a copy of
Qmodem 7 and two command.com windows also running at the same time, on
a 33mhz i386 with 4MB of RAM (yes, 4 MegaByte). It (WS 7.0d) ran just
fine. This was 1991 to somewhere about 1994.

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Subject: Re: The Beauty of Finished Software
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 05:09:58 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: immibis - Sun, 7 Jan 2024 04:09 UTC

On 1/4/24 18:15, Retrograde wrote:
> Their website is a hoot: "the keyboard controls we love -- the user
> interface we all know, etc." Fun to see this running on a Mac though.
> I'm going to take a laptop with 32GB of RAM and run a binary whose
> original version ran in, what, 16MB in DOS? What will you do with all
> your extra RAM not otherwise in use?

Don't worry - your web browser will use the other 31.984GB.

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