On 4/20/2024 10:11 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 19:03:49 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 4/20/2024 6:37 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:17:18 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> No. [WSL] is for developers.
>>>
>>> It may be now, but how long do you think it will stay that way? It
>>> seems very likely that, at some point, WSL will become a mandatory part
>>> of a Windows install.
>>
>> Not likely.
>
> Think of how difficult and expensive it is for Microsoft to continue
> developing Windows as a stand-alone OS. Clearly the profit isn’t there any
> more,

Windows is still a cash cow for MS.

Windows maintenance cost must be like 1% of Windows revenue.

Arne

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 22:29:26 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> Windows is still a cash cow for MS.

If it was, you would think their ongoing investment would be commensurate
with that.

> Windows maintenance cost must be like 1% of Windows revenue.

Then why have they had to cut back on QA so much? Windows users
increasingly feel like they are beta testers for Microsoft, and they even
have to pay for the privilege.

On 19/04/2024 9:05 am, Dan Cross wrote:

> ARM is ready right now. But that's irrelevant;
> we'll be dealing with x86 for the next 20 to
> 30 years, at least. It may loss it's position
> as #1 in 10, but it's not going away any time
> soon.

ARM64 and X86-64 are both going to be around for decades. ARM is
becoming more interesting in the server space, but is a pretty fractured
ecosystem that requires a lot of coding-to-the-hardware; that said you
can go to AWS or Azure and spin up a nice ARM machine for cheap right
now. It's definitely worth investigating a port; I'm not sure if OpenVMS
is self-hosting enough to cross-compile yet but I suspect there's a lot
of hard-coded C in there.

On the other side, x86s and FRED are worth some serious investigation.

> - Dan C.

--
motk

On 21/04/2024 8:37 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 10:08 +0100 (BST), John Dallman wrote:
>
>> Ah, I thought you meant getting VMS running in VMs on Windows desktops.
>> That might actually be useful ...
>
> We can already do that with SIMH.

Sadly, not without grooming the internet for pakgen or whatever.

--
motk

In article <v046kp$hqa7$2@dont-email.me>, motk <meh@meh.meh> wrote:
>On 19/04/2024 9:05 am, Dan Cross wrote:
>
>> ARM is ready right now. But that's irrelevant;
>> we'll be dealing with x86 for the next 20 to
>> 30 years, at least. It may loss it's position
>> as #1 in 10, but it's not going away any time
>> soon.
>
>ARM64 and X86-64 are both going to be around for decades. ARM is
>becoming more interesting in the server space, but is a pretty fractured
>ecosystem that requires a lot of coding-to-the-hardware; that said you
>can go to AWS or Azure and spin up a nice ARM machine for cheap right
>now. It's definitely worth investigating a port; I'm not sure if OpenVMS
>is self-hosting enough to cross-compile yet but I suspect there's a lot
>of hard-coded C in there.
>
>On the other side, x86s and FRED are worth some serious investigation.

To be clear: I was not suggesting that VSI port VMS to ARM at
this time. I was merely correcting Arne's mistatements.

- Dan C.

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 10:20:14 +1000, motk wrote:

> On 21/04/2024 8:37 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> We can already do that with SIMH.
>
> Sadly, not without grooming the internet for pakgen or whatever.

That’s easy to find. I also did a cleaned-up version of the C code, and a
Python version with some extra capabilities.

I keep wondering if I shouldn’t post them somewhere ...

On 2024-04-18, motk <yep@yep.yep> wrote:
> On 18/4/24 22:23, Simon Clubley wrote:
>
>> I wonder what has driven this sudden change and if this will be more
>> permanent than it was the last time around ?
>
> It's odd it's not there. Corporate insurance for 'cyber' issues,
> absolutely vital in any banking or finance environment. You need to be
> able to demonstrate you have clear standards for managing CVE issues
> that Qualys or Tenable throw at you, or else.

Tell me about it. :-(

When I dealt with VSI over my DCL findings, the engineers were great but
the management were useless (apart from the excellent guy who they brought
in to advise them and who quit ~3 months later). You would have thought
that VSI management would have learnt lessons in the aftermath of that.

My guess is that enough customers have finally forced VSI management to
comply with the expected industry standards.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.