My Android camera app had an option for HEIC files and said they were
better so I set it and now I can't view the files on Windows in Irfanview.

How do you convert HEIC back to JPEG on either Android or Windows?

On 10/10/2022 11:36 PM, Zitelli wrote:
> My Android camera app had an option for HEIC files and said they were
> better so I set it and now I can't view the files on Windows in Irfanview.
>
> How do you convert HEIC back to JPEG on either Android or Windows?

https://i.postimg.cc/BZd3kBRF/cygwin-heif-convert.gif

You could do it in Win10 bash shell (even though bash shell
does not have convenient graphics by default, no graphics are
needed for this and the Terminal is sufficient).

sudo apt install libheif-examples

cd /mnt/c/users/paul/Downloads # Use a visible file system, yer Downloads...

heif-convert example.heic example.jpg

written as example-1.jpg
written as example-2.jpg

It creates a separate JPG file, for each of
multiple images stored in the .heic .

It's a stupid format, don't use it. Stick with
formats everyone can use without breaking a sweat.

HEIC is like encrypting something and then throwing
away the key. I prefer to keep the key under the mat,
with image formats that work.

You can run Cygwin in WinXP (unless they've dropped 32 bit).

*******

There are some ways to do it, that are "official windows" in
a sense. The danger with methods like this, is example-1.jpg
shows up, but you can't access example-2.jpg. That's the
problem with some of the tool flows, they don't handle the
multiple images that could be in there.

https://www.howtogeek.com/345504/how-to-open-heic-files-on-windows-or-convert-them-to-jpeg/

You could also get a recent version of GIMP, and I think that
even showed example-1 and example-2 during the conversion process,
so you could select. I use an older GIMP because I do not like
excessive usage of floating palettes on a small LCD screen. A
screen the size of Kens new screen would make this moot. But the older
GIMP doesn't have the conversion built in (my version of GIMP
was likely released before heic was invented).

Paul

On 11.10.2022 05:36, Zitelli wrote:

> My Android camera app had an option for HEIC files and said they were
> better so I set it and now I can't view the files on Windows in Irfanview.
>
> How do you convert HEIC back to JPEG on either Android or Windows?

https://www.irfanview.com/faq.htm#PAGE6

Q: How to load HEIC files in IrfanView?
A: You must install the HEVC extension/codec.
1) If you have Windows 10/11, you can install it from Microsoft Store:
You need to install 2 (!!) extensions from Microsoft Store: HEVC Video Extensions from Device Manufacturer AND HEIF Image Extensions.
or
2) Download and install the HEIC Codec, version 1.0.1 and later (Freeware, for Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11).
HEIC Codec
or
3) Search on internet for the "CopyTrans HEIC" Windows codec and install it (Free for personal use, for Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11).
CopyTrans HEIC Codec

On 10/10/22 20:36, Zitelli wrote:
> My Android camera app had an option for HEIC files and said they were
> better so I set it and now I can't view the files on Windows in Irfanview.
>
> How do you convert HEIC back to JPEG on either Android or Windows?

Try Gimp (reads them in Linux) and IrfanView.

Paul wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 00:50:19 -0400 :

> It's a stupid format, don't use it. Stick with
> formats everyone can use without breaking a sweat.
>
> HEIC is like encrypting something and then throwing
> away the key. I prefer to keep the key under the mat,
> with image formats that work.

Thanks for letting me know about this "stupid format" of HEIC.

I'm going to agree with you that it's a stupid format when even Irfanview
can't read it without going through hoops. Why does it even exist?

Even the Irfanview plugins package doesn't read the stupid format.

As much as I didn't want to install commercial ransomware, I installed the
free for personal use "CopyTrans HEIC" Windows codec that Herbert Kleebauer
listed.

I have no idea where on my system that "codec" went. What is it? Is it a
dll? An executable? A program? How does it intercept everything I'm doing
with Irfanview? It didn't ask for the Irfanview installation directory for
example and it didn't seem to change what was already in the Irfanview
plugin directory. How does that work?

Where is that "stupid codec" stored and how does it intercept everything I
do on subsequent image viewing programs?

Herbert Kleebauer wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 10:07:26 +0200 :

> A: You must install the HEVC extension/codec.
> 1) If you have Windows 10/11, you can install it from Microsoft Store:
> You need to install 2 (!!) extensions from Microsoft Store: HEVC Video Extensions from Device Manufacturer AND HEIF Image Extensions.
> or

On principle, I never install anything from the Microsoft store.
The reasons are that if everyone did it, they would stop trying to copy
Apple's & Chrome's restrictive app store environment.

> 2) Download and install the HEIC Codec, version 1.0.1 and later (Freeware, for Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11).
> HEIC Codec

I couldn't find the link for that HEIC Codec unfortunately.

> or
> 3) Search on internet for the "CopyTrans HEIC" Windows codec and install it (Free for personal use, for Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11).
> CopyTrans HEIC Codec

I installed that commercial ransomware which they say is free for personal
use. Somehow either Irfanview talks to that codec or that codec talks to
Irfanview because the images finally came up.

To convert that hard to read HEIC format into a sane format, I put all the
HEIC files into a folder and opened one of the HEIC files in Irfanview and
hit "b" and then I had to change the default "Files of type" to "All files"
before I could press the "Add all" button. Then I selected the "Batch
conversion" circle and the "Output format" of "JPG-JPG/JPEG format" where I
was surprised how long it took per file for Irfanview to convert a day's
worth of HEIC photos to the sane JPEG format.

If someone asks me in the future, my recommendation is the same as Paul's
which is "Don't use it" but if they receive a batch of HEIC files, my
recommendation for them is to convert them to a sane commonly readable
format (as shown above) as quickly as possible.

T wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:46:07 -0700 :

> Try Gimp (reads them in Linux) and IrfanView.

We shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to view an image taken from
our phones but I have to admit this problem was self inflicted by me
because I flipped the switch to turn on that format.

I just went back to the camera app settings on my phone which say
"High efficiency pictures
Save space by capturing Photo mode pictures in high efficiency image format
(HEIF). Some apps and websites don't support HEIF pictures."

There also was an option for
"Reduce file size
Save space without sacrificing video quality. The results will be saved in
HEVC format, which some apps and websites don't support."

I turned both off.
I never should have turned them on.

I didn't take any videos that day, but if HEVC causes the same problem of
creating a non-standard file format, then I don't want HEIC or HEVC files.

Who uses them?

On 11/10/2022 15:46, Zitelli wrote:
> T wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:46:07 -0700 :
>
>> Try Gimp (reads them in Linux) and IrfanView.
>
> We shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to view an image taken from
> our phones but I have to admit this problem was self inflicted by me
> because I flipped the switch to turn on that format.
>
> I just went back to the camera app settings on my phone which say
> "High efficiency pictures
> Save space by capturing Photo mode pictures in high efficiency image format
> (HEIF). Some apps and websites don't support HEIF pictures."
>
> There also was an option for
> "Reduce file size
> Save space without sacrificing video quality. The results will be saved in
> HEVC format, which some apps and websites don't support."
>
> I turned both off.
> I never should have turned them on.
>
> I didn't take any videos that day, but if HEVC causes the same problem of
> creating a non-standard file format, then I don't want HEIC or HEVC files.
>
> Who uses them?

Apple and the users of Apple devices.

There are, literally, millions of them!

On 11.10.2022 16:30, Zitelli wrote:

>
>> 2) Download and install the HEIC Codec, version 1.0.1 and later (Freeware, for Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11).
>> HEIC Codec
>
> I couldn't find the link for that HEIC Codec unfortunately.

If you had visited the given link:

https://www.irfanview.com/faq.htm#PAGE6

then you had found the the download links for the 3 given alternatives.

> If someone asks me in the future, my recommendation is the same as Paul's
> which is "Don't use it" but if they receive a batch of HEIC files, my
> recommendation for them is to convert them to a sane commonly readable
> format (as shown above) as quickly as possible.

If you only wanted to convert the pictures the universal tool would be:

https://imagemagick.org/
https://imagemagick.org/script/command-line-processing.php

There is a portable version which doesn't require an installation:

https://imagemagick.org/archive/binaries/ImageMagick-7.1.0-portable-Q16-x64.zip

I only use the file "convert.exe" from this zip file (for example to
batch insert a date/time stamp into the pictures).

convert --help

Version: ImageMagick 7.1.0-50 Q16 x64 f032690:20221008 https://imagemagick.org
Copyright: (C) 1999 ImageMagick Studio LLC
License: https://imagemagick.org/script/license.php
Features: Cipher DPC OpenCL
Delegates (built-in): bzlib cairo freetype gslib heic jng jp2 jpeg jxl lcms lqr lzma openexr pangocairo png ps raqm raw rsvg tiff webp xml zip zlib
Compiler: Visual Studio 2022 (193331630)
Usage: convert [options ...] file [ [options ...] file ...] [options ...] file

Image Settings:
-adjoin join images into a single multi-image file
-affine matrix affine transform matrix
-alpha option activate, deactivate, reset, or set the alpha channel
-antialias remove pixel-aliasing
-authenticate password
decipher image with this password
-attenuate value lessen (or intensify) when adding noise to an image
-background color background color
-bias value add bias when convolving an image
-black-point-compensation
use black point compensation
-blue-primary point chromaticity blue primary point
-bordercolor color border color
-caption string assign a caption to an image
-clip clip along the first path from the 8BIM profile
-clip-mask filename associate a clip mask with the image
-clip-path id clip along a named path from the 8BIM profile
-colorspace type alternate image colorspace
-comment string annotate image with comment
-compose operator set image composite operator
-compress type type of pixel compression when writing the image
-define format:option
define one or more image format options
-delay value display the next image after pausing
-density geometry horizontal and vertical density of the image
-depth value image depth
-direction type render text right-to-left or left-to-right
-display server get image or font from this X server
-dispose method layer disposal method
-dither method apply error diffusion to image
-encoding type text encoding type
-endian type endianness (MSB or LSB) of the image
-family name render text with this font family
-features distance analyze image features (e.g. contrast, correlation)
-fill color color to use when filling a graphic primitive
-filter type use this filter when resizing an image
-font name render text with this font
-format "string" output formatted image characteristics
-fuzz distance colors within this distance are considered equal
-gravity type horizontal and vertical text placement
-green-primary point chromaticity green primary point
-illuminant type reference illuminant
-intensity method method to generate an intensity value from a pixel
-intent type type of rendering intent when managing the image color
-interlace type type of image interlacing scheme
-interline-spacing value
set the space between two text lines
-interpolate method pixel color interpolation method
-interword-spacing value
set the space between two words
-kerning value set the space between two letters
-label string assign a label to an image
-limit type value pixel cache resource limit
-loop iterations add Netscape loop extension to your GIF animation
-matte store matte channel if the image has one
-mattecolor color frame color
-moments report image moments
-monitor monitor progress
-orient type image orientation
-page geometry size and location of an image canvas (setting)
-ping efficiently determine image attributes
-pointsize value font point size
-precision value maximum number of significant digits to print
-preview type image preview type
-quality value JPEG/MIFF/PNG compression level
-quiet suppress all warning messages
-read-mask filename associate a read mask with the image
-red-primary point chromaticity red primary point
-regard-warnings pay attention to warning messages
-remap filename transform image colors to match this set of colors
-repage geometry size and location of an image canvas
-respect-parentheses settings remain in effect until parenthesis boundary
-sampling-factor geometry
horizontal and vertical sampling factor
-scene value image scene number
-seed value seed a new sequence of pseudo-random numbers
-size geometry width and height of image
-stretch type render text with this font stretch
-stroke color graphic primitive stroke color
-strokewidth value graphic primitive stroke width
-style type render text with this font style
-support factor resize support: > 1.0 is blurry, < 1.0 is sharp
-synchronize synchronize image to storage device
-taint declare the image as modified
-texture filename name of texture to tile onto the image background
-tile-offset geometry
tile offset
-treedepth value color tree depth
-transparent-color color
transparent color
-undercolor color annotation bounding box color
-units type the units of image resolution
-verbose print detailed information about the image
-view FlashPix viewing transforms
-virtual-pixel method
virtual pixel access method
-weight type render text with this font weight
-white-point point chromaticity white point
-write-mask filename associate a write mask with the image -word-break type sets whether line breaks appear wherever the text would otherwise overflow

Image Operators:
-adaptive-blur geometry
adaptively blur pixels; decrease effect near edges
-adaptive-resize geometry
adaptively resize image using 'mesh' interpolation
-adaptive-sharpen geometry
adaptively sharpen pixels; increase effect near edges
-alpha option on, activate, off, deactivate, set, opaque, copy
transparent, extract, background, or shape
-annotate geometry text
annotate the image with text
-auto-gamma automagically adjust gamma level of image
-auto-level automagically adjust color levels of image
-auto-orient automagically orient (rotate) image
-auto-threshold method
automatically perform image thresholding
-bench iterations measure performance
-bilateral-blur geometry
non-linear, edge-preserving, and noise-reducing smoothing filter
-black-threshold value
force all pixels below the threshold into black
-blue-shift factor simulate a scene at nighttime in the moonlight
-blur geometry reduce image noise and reduce detail levels
-border geometry surround image with a border of color
-bordercolor color border color
-brightness-contrast geometry
improve brightness / contrast of the image
-canny geometry detect edges in the image
-cdl filename color correct with a color decision list
-channel mask set the image channel mask
-charcoal radius simulate a charcoal drawing
-chop geometry remove pixels from the image interior
-clahe geometry contrast limited adaptive histogram equalization
-clamp keep pixel values in range (0-QuantumRange)
-colorize value colorize the image with the fill color
-color-matrix matrix apply color correction to the image
-colors value preferred number of colors in the image
-connected-components connectivity
connected-components uniquely labeled
-contrast enhance or reduce the image contrast
-contrast-stretch geometry
improve contrast by 'stretching' the intensity range
-convolve coefficients
apply a convolution kernel to the image
-cycle amount cycle the image colormap
-decipher filename convert cipher pixels to plain pixels
-deskew threshold straighten an image
-despeckle reduce the speckles within an image
-distort method args
distort images according to given method and args
-draw string annotate the image with a graphic primitive
-edge radius apply a filter to detect edges in the image
-encipher filename convert plain pixels to cipher pixels
-emboss radius emboss an image
-enhance apply a digital filter to enhance a noisy image
-equalize perform histogram equalization to an image
-evaluate operator value
evaluate an arithmetic, relational, or logical expression
-extent geometry set the image size
-extract geometry extract area from image
-fft implements the discrete Fourier transform (DFT)
-flip flip image vertically
-floodfill geometry color
floodfill the image with color
-flop flop image horizontally
-frame geometry surround image with an ornamental border
-function name parameters
apply function over image values
-gamma value level of gamma correction
-gaussian-blur geometry
reduce image noise and reduce detail levels
-geometry geometry preferred size or location of the image
-grayscale method convert image to grayscale
-hough-lines geometry
identify lines in the image
-identify identify the format and characteristics of the image
-ift implements the inverse discrete Fourier transform (DFT)
-implode amount implode image pixels about the center
-integral calculate the sum of values (pixel values) in the image
-interpolative-resize geometry
resize image using interpolation
-kmeans geometry K means color reduction
-kuwahara geometry edge preserving noise reduction filter
-lat geometry local adaptive thresholding
-level value adjust the level of image contrast
-level-colors color,color
level image with the given colors
-linear-stretch geometry
improve contrast by 'stretching with saturation'
-liquid-rescale geometry
rescale image with seam-carving
-local-contrast geometry
enhance local contrast
-mean-shift geometry delineate arbitrarily shaped clusters in the image
-median geometry apply a median filter to the image
-mode geometry make each pixel the 'predominant color' of the
neighborhood
-modulate value vary the brightness, saturation, and hue
-monochrome transform image to black and white
-morphology method kernel
apply a morphology method to the image
-motion-blur geometry
simulate motion blur
-negate replace every pixel with its complementary color
-noise geometry add or reduce noise in an image
-normalize transform image to span the full range of colors
-opaque color change this color to the fill color
-ordered-dither NxN
add a noise pattern to the image with specific
amplitudes
-paint radius simulate an oil painting
-perceptible epsilon
pixel value less than |epsilon| become epsilon or
-epsilon
-polaroid angle simulate a Polaroid picture
-posterize levels reduce the image to a limited number of color levels
-profile filename add, delete, or apply an image profile
-quantize colorspace reduce colors in this colorspace
-raise value lighten/darken image edges to create a 3-D effect
-random-threshold low,high
random threshold the image
-range-threshold values
perform either hard or soft thresholding within some range of values in an image
-region geometry apply options to a portion of the image
-render render vector graphics
-resample geometry change the resolution of an image
-resize geometry resize the image
-roll geometry roll an image vertically or horizontally
-rotate degrees apply Paeth rotation to the image
-rotational-blur angle
rotational blur the image
-sample geometry scale image with pixel sampling
-scale geometry scale the image
-segment values segment an image
-selective-blur geometry
selectively blur pixels within a contrast threshold
-sepia-tone threshold
simulate a sepia-toned photo
-set property value set an image property
-shade degrees shade the image using a distant light source
-shadow geometry simulate an image shadow
-sharpen geometry sharpen the image
-shave geometry shave pixels from the image edges
-shear geometry slide one edge of the image along the X or Y axis
-sigmoidal-contrast geometry
increase the contrast without saturating highlights or
shadows
-sketch geometry simulate a pencil sketch
-solarize threshold negate all pixels above the threshold level
-sort-pixels sort each scanline in ascending order of intensity
-sparse-color method args
fill in a image based on a few color points
-splice geometry splice the background color into the image
-spread radius displace image pixels by a random amount
-statistic type geometry
replace each pixel with corresponding statistic from the
neighborhood
-strip strip image of all profiles and comments
-swirl degrees swirl image pixels about the center
-threshold value threshold the image
-thumbnail geometry create a thumbnail of the image
-tile filename tile image when filling a graphic primitive
-tint value tint the image with the fill color
-transform affine transform image
-transparent color make this color transparent within the image
-transpose flip image vertically and rotate 90 degrees
-transverse flop image horizontally and rotate 270 degrees
-trim trim image edges
-type type image type
-unique-colors discard all but one of any pixel color
-unsharp geometry sharpen the image
-vignette geometry soften the edges of the image in vignette style
-wave geometry alter an image along a sine wave
-wavelet-denoise threshold
removes noise from the image using a wavelet transform
-white-balance automagically adjust white balance of image
-white-threshold value
force all pixels above the threshold into white

"Zitelli" <joezitelli@areyoucrazy.spam.com> wrote

| I'm going to agree with you that it's a stupid format when even Irfanview
| can't read it without going through hoops. Why does it even exist?
|

It compresses much better than JPG. Now Apple have made
it default and iPhones default to saving as HEIF. I recently
looked for a way to convert them on XP but had to give up.
Anything new enought to recognize HEIF doesn't support XP.

Your only option is to ask peopl on iPhones to please switch
their default format to JPG. (Good luck with that.)

It may be a sensible format in the longter, but for now it's
not sufficiently supported to replace JPG. (It's not even supported
in any browser.)

Zitelli wrote:
> My Android camera app had an option for HEIC files and said they were
> better so I set it and now I can't view the files on Windows in Irfanview.
>
> How do you convert HEIC back to JPEG on either Android or Windows?

MSFT Store app for Windows 10/11
HEIF Image Extensions
The HEIF Image Extension enables Windows 10 devices to read and write
files that use the High Efficiency Image File (HEIF) format. Such files
can have a .heic or .heif file extension.

but...(and unfortunate),the above App Store information is not entirely
accurate. That note is followed by this information
Images that are stored in HEIF files that have the .heic file extension
are compressed using the HEVC format. Such files require the HEVC Video
Extensions package to be installed as well. If the HEVC Video Extensions
package is not installed, the HEIF Image Extension will not be able to
read or write .heic files.
The HEVC is not free - 99 cents purchase via MSFT Store (Microsoft
Account Required)

i.e. one needs both.
The HEIF and HEVC

Multiple machines - only need to purchase once for the same MSA logon on
different machines)

Alternative, find a third party app that supports the file type in
Windows and its program.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 10/11/2022 10:46 AM, Zitelli wrote:
> T wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:46:07 -0700 :
>
>> Try Gimp (reads them in Linux) and IrfanView.
>
> We shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to view an image taken from
> our phones but I have to admit this problem was self inflicted by me
> because I flipped the switch to turn on that format.
>
> I just went back to the camera app settings on my phone which say
> "High efficiency pictures
> Save space by capturing Photo mode pictures in high efficiency image format
> (HEIF). Some apps and websites don't support HEIF pictures."
>
> There also was an option for
> "Reduce file size
> Save space without sacrificing video quality. The results will be saved in
> HEVC format, which some apps and websites don't support."
>
> I turned both off.
> I never should have turned them on.
>
> I didn't take any videos that day, but if HEVC causes the same problem of
> creating a non-standard file format, then I don't want HEIC or HEVC files.
>
> Who uses them?

Sniff. Sniff. Follow the money.

https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/heif-image-extensions/9PMMSR1CGPWG?hl=en-us&gl=us

HEIF Image Extensions <=== App in Microsoft Store

"It works, but... You have to have
the $0.99 HEVC codec installed for this to work."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#Patent_licensing

"When containing images and image sequences encoded in a particular format
(e.g. HEVC or AVC) its use becomes subject to the licensing of patents on
the coding format."

So Microsoft in effect, charges for it, for patent overhang reasons.
They're afraid of being sued.

This seems like a perfectly fine design... why wouldn't we want an
encoding scheme with patent. Yum. <tucks in bib for hearty meal>

*******

The other problem with the format, is the lack of one-to-one
correspondence between encoded and translated images. Here,
GIMP adds an extra step, where it has a palette with the
two images in "example.heic". You can select one of the images
from the palette for further work (such as Save or Export). Other
tools with a plugin architecture, may not have provisions for
an extra step like this.

[Picture] (from the last time this topic came up)

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRWpTL1q/GIMP-opens-Apple-formats.gif

*******

innoextract on "CopyTransHEICforWindowsv2.000.exe" package.

Mostly FOSS code, with CopyTransHEICforWindows.dll for glue.

The Acknowledgements mentions FFMPEG.

$ tree -s
..
├── [ 7838192] CopyTransHEICforWindowsv2.000.exe
├── [ 512] app
│   ├── [ 3132304] CopyTransHEICforWindows.dll <== AX linkage in here ???
│   ├── [ 47894] acknowledgments.html
│   ├── [ 3495936] avcodec-57.dll
│   ├── [ 606208] avdevice-57.dll
│   ├── [ 742912] avfilter-6.dll
│   ├── [ 1053184] avformat-57.dll
│   ├── [ 1396224] avutil-55.dll
│   ├── [ 285478] cth-home.ico
│   ├── [ 726016] swresample-2.dll
│   └── [ 1225728] swscale-4.dll
├── [ 512] c
│   └── [ 512] ProgramData
│   └── [ 512] WindSolutions
│   └── [ 512] CopyTransHEICforWindows
│   └── [ 512] Logs
└── [ 512] commonpf32
└── [ 512] CopyTrans HEIC for Windows
├── [ 2963344] CopyTransHEICforWindows.dll
├── [ 47894] acknowledgments.html
├── [ 2308608] avcodec-57.dll
├── [ 463872] avdevice-57.dll
├── [ 570880] avfilter-6.dll
├── [ 815104] avformat-57.dll
├── [ 1153536] avutil-55.dll
├── [ 573440] swresample-2.dll
└── [ 1004032] swscale-4.dll

8 directories, 20 files

Presumably, running GSPOT and having it dump the CODEC
list, would show this offering in the activated state.

Paul

On 10/11/2022 10:30 AM, Zitelli wrote:
> Herbert Kleebauer wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 10:07:26 +0200 :
>
>> A: You must install the HEVC extension/codec.
>>       1) If you have Windows 10/11, you can install it from Microsoft Store:
>>       You need to install 2 (!!) extensions from Microsoft Store: HEVC Video Extensions from Device Manufacturer  AND  HEIF Image Extensions.
>>       or
>
> On principle, I never install anything from the Microsoft store.
> The reasons are that if everyone did it, they would stop trying to copy
> Apple's & Chrome's restrictive app store environment.
>
>>       2) Download and install the HEIC Codec, version 1.0.1 and later (Freeware, for Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11).
>>       HEIC Codec
>
> I couldn't find the link for that HEIC Codec unfortunately.
>
>>       or
>>       3) Search on internet for the "CopyTrans HEIC" Windows codec and install it (Free for personal use, for Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11).
>>       CopyTrans HEIC Codec
>
> I installed that commercial ransomware which they say is free for personal
> use. Somehow either Irfanview talks to that codec or that codec talks to
> Irfanview because the images finally came up.
>
> To convert that hard to read HEIC format into a sane format, I put all the
> HEIC files into a folder and opened one of the HEIC files in Irfanview and
> hit "b" and then I had to change the default "Files of type" to "All files"
> before I could press the "Add all" button. Then I selected the "Batch
> conversion" circle and the "Output format" of "JPG-JPG/JPEG format" where I
> was surprised how long it took per file for Irfanview to convert a day's
> worth of HEIC photos to the sane JPEG format.
>
> If someone asks me in the future, my recommendation is the same as Paul's
> which is "Don't use it" but if they receive a batch of HEIC files, my
> recommendation for them is to convert them to a sane commonly readable
> format (as shown above) as quickly as possible.

I would not do a victory lap quite yet.

For any converter, you need to verify whether it gives
all the images within each container.

heif-convert example.heic example.jpg

written as example-1.jpg
written as example-2.jpg

The first method I tried, only offered example-1.jpg
and the method was blinded to the second image.

Part of your testing for a given method, is whether
example.heic causes two images to be produced.

Paul

On 10/11/2022 12:43 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Zitelli" <joezitelli@areyoucrazy.spam.com> wrote
>
> | I'm going to agree with you that it's a stupid format when even Irfanview
> | can't read it without going through hoops. Why does it even exist?
> |
>
> It compresses much better than JPG. Now Apple have made
> it default and iPhones default to saving as HEIF. I recently
> looked for a way to convert them on XP but had to give up.
> Anything new enought to recognize HEIF doesn't support XP.
>
> Your only option is to ask peopl on iPhones to please switch
> their default format to JPG. (Good luck with that.)
>
> It may be a sensible format in the longter, but for now it's
> not sufficiently supported to replace JPG. (It's not even supported
> in any browser.)
>
>

If Cygwin works for you in WinXP, I'd use the converter in there.

You do not need to maintain a Cygwin tree, to use the code.
It is not "an OS", merely a package translation method of sorts,
requiring coding changes by the Cygwin team. The namespace for
disks is different, for example.

Since the last time I checked, Cygwin had changed radically. At one time,
you grab a Cygwin some.exe file for the thing you wanted to do,
plus the two Cygwin runtime DLLs. Now, there's a lot more DLLs
for some reason. Totally unnecessary. It used to be tidy enough,
you were only dropping three files into your work folder.

Paul

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

| If Cygwin works for you in WinXP, I'd use the converter in there.
|

Thanks, but I can't be bothered to go to that much trouble.
I'll know the apocalype is nigh if I ever get to where I'm trying
to run Linux on Windows. :)

I was willing to find a program, to accommodate iPhone fans
who don't understand file formats. But now if I get a HEIF
I'll just tell them I can't open it. Surprisingly, that's only
happened once so far. Maybe iPhone users are getting the
message quickly that their photo settings need to be adjusted.
A quick trip to the Apple Church to see a Genius, and they're
back in business. :)

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote

| The other problem with the format, is the lack of one-to-one
| correspondence between encoded and translated images. Here,
| GIMP adds an extra step, where it has a palette with the
| two images in "example.heic". You can select one of the images
| from the palette for further work (such as Save or Export). Other
| tools with a plugin architecture, may not have provisions for
| an extra step like this.
| | [Picture] (from the last time this topic came up)
| | https://i.postimg.cc/ZRWpTL1q/GIMP-opens-Apple-formats.gif
|

I'd forgeotten about this. I remember noww that you
posted those pictures. The houses were distorted, showing
crooked and squashed pixel patterns. So they achieve
twice the compression of JPG by butchering the data?
That doesn't sound like an especially sensible trade-off.

Maybe if people are only ever looking at postage-stamp
sized images on iPhones, shrunk down from 2,400 pixels, the
gain in compression would be worth the damage. Though it
seems more sensible to just shrink the default image save size.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 10/11/2022 10:46 AM, Zitelli wrote:
>> T wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:46:07 -0700 :
>>
>>> Try Gimp (reads them in Linux) and IrfanView.
>>
>> We shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to view an image taken from
>> our phones but I have to admit this problem was self inflicted by me
>> because I flipped the switch to turn on that format.
>>
>> I just went back to the camera app settings on my phone which say
>> "High efficiency pictures
>> Save space by capturing Photo mode pictures in high efficiency image format
>> (HEIF). Some apps and websites don't support HEIF pictures."
>>
>> There also was an option for
>> "Reduce file size
>> Save space without sacrificing video quality. The results will be saved in
>> HEVC format, which some apps and websites don't support."
>>
>> I turned both off.
>> I never should have turned them on.
>>
>> I didn't take any videos that day, but if HEVC causes the same problem of
>> creating a non-standard file format, then I don't want HEIC or HEVC files.
>>
>> Who uses them?
>
> Sniff. Sniff. Follow the money.
>
> https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/heif-image-extensions/9PMMSR1CGPWG?hl=en-us&gl=us
>
> HEIF Image Extensions <=== App in Microsoft Store
>
> "It works, but... You have to have
> the $0.99 HEVC codec installed for this to work."
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#Patent_licensing
>
> "When containing images and image sequences encoded in a particular format
> (e.g. HEVC or AVC) its use becomes subject to the licensing of patents on
> the coding format."
>
> So Microsoft in effect, charges for it, for patent overhang reasons.
> They're afraid of being sued.

It's only the video container HEVC that is subject to this. The OP can get
the HEIF/HEIC image extension for free from the Store as there are no
patent restrictions.

Zitelli <joezitelli@areyoucrazy.spam.com> wrote:
> T wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:46:07 -0700 :
>
>> Try Gimp (reads them in Linux) and IrfanView.
>
> We shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to view an image taken from
> our phones but I have to admit this problem was self inflicted by me
> because I flipped the switch to turn on that format.
>
> I just went back to the camera app settings on my phone which say
> "High efficiency pictures
> Save space by capturing Photo mode pictures in high efficiency image format
> (HEIF). Some apps and websites don't support HEIF pictures."
>
> There also was an option for
> "Reduce file size
> Save space without sacrificing video quality. The results will be saved in
> HEVC format, which some apps and websites don't support."
>
> I turned both off.
> I never should have turned them on.
>
> I didn't take any videos that day, but if HEVC causes the same problem of
> creating a non-standard file format, then I don't want HEIC or HEVC files.
>
> Who uses them?

They're the default Apple devices which is fine as all Apple OSs cope fine
with them.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 19:39:38 -0400, Paul wrote:

> On 10/11/2022 10:30 AM, Zitelli wrote:
>> Herbert Kleebauer wrote at Tue, 11 Oct 2022 10:07:26 +0200 :

....

>> I installed that commercial ransomware which they say is free for personal
>> use. Somehow either Irfanview talks to that codec or that codec talks to
>> Irfanview because the images finally came up.
>>
>> To convert that hard to read HEIC format into a sane format, I put all the
>> HEIC files into a folder and opened one of the HEIC files in Irfanview and
>> hit "b" and then I had to change the default "Files of type" to "All files"
>> before I could press the "Add all" button. Then I selected the "Batch
>> conversion" circle and the "Output format" of "JPG-JPG/JPEG format" where I
>> was surprised how long it took per file for Irfanview to convert a day's
>> worth of HEIC photos to the sane JPEG format.
>>
>> If someone asks me in the future, my recommendation is the same as Paul's
>> which is "Don't use it" but if they receive a batch of HEIC files, my
>> recommendation for them is to convert them to a sane commonly readable
>> format (as shown above) as quickly as possible.
>
> I would not do a victory lap quite yet.
>
> For any converter, you need to verify whether it gives
> all the images within each container.

There is another twist.

JPEG is a lossy format. I assume that HEIC is also lossy (it has to be, impossible to compress that lot without being lossy). And I guess there is an extra loss in the format conversion.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| There is another twist.
| | JPEG is a lossy format. I assume that HEIC is also lossy (it has to be,
impossible to compress that lot without being lossy). And I guess there is
an extra loss in the format conversion.
|

Did you look at Paul's image link? In an earlier
discussion he posted samples of the rowhouse picture.
The HEIF version was notably distorted, but it wasn't
so noticeable at a casual glance, It was as though some
of the houses had been partially crushed. There seems
to be some kind of calculation to decide what data
can be skipped, similar to how JPG calculates what color
detail can be skipped without losing the image.

It's an interesting way of looking at priorities: It doesn't
much matter what the image is, so long as the viewer gets
a general idea. The implication is that people are usually
only looking at images for cues to preconceptions, so we
really just need a kind of icon image. For example,
if a JPG is clear enough to see that it's Joe Biden standing
with Putin, we consider the image adequate so
long as it communicates merely that data. Typically, if
you zoom in just slightly on such an image it will degrade
to a color grid of rectangles.

12 Ekim 2022 Çarşamba tarihinde saat 15:13:06 UTC+3 itibarıyla Mayayana şunları yazdı:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
> | There is another twist.
> |
> | JPEG is a lossy format. I assume that HEIC is also lossy (it has to be,
> impossible to compress that lot without being lossy). And I guess there is
> an extra loss in the format conversion.
> |
> Did you look at Paul's image link? In an earlier
> discussion he posted samples of the rowhouse picture.
> The HEIF version was notably distorted, but it wasn't
> so noticeable at a casual glance, It was as though some
> of the houses had been partially crushed. There seems
> to be some kind of calculation to decide what data
> can be skipped, similar to how JPG calculates what color
> detail can be skipped without losing the image.
>
> It's an interesting way of looking at priorities: It doesn't
> much matter what the image is, so long as the viewer gets
> a general idea. The implication is that people are usually
> only looking at images for cues to preconceptions, so we
> really just need a kind of icon image. For example,
> if a JPG is clear enough to see that it's Joe Biden standing
> with Putin, we consider the image adequate so
> long as it communicates merely that data. Typically, if
> you zoom in just slightly on such an image it will degrade
> to a color grid of rectangles.

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