Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Physician: One upon whom we set our hopes when ill and our dogs when well. -- Ambrose Bierce


computers / comp.sys.unisys / Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...Kurt Duncan
`* Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...Lewis Cole
 `* Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...Kurt Duncan
  `* Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...Lewis Cole
   `* Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...Kurt Duncan
    `- Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...Lewis Cole

1
Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...

<ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=336&group=comp.sys.unisys#336

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
X-Received: by 2002:ae9:dec3:0:b0:762:1833:c811 with SMTP id s186-20020ae9dec3000000b007621833c811mr1212210qkf.14.1687042451551;
Sat, 17 Jun 2023 15:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:8046:0:b0:bd7:545e:ab35 with SMTP id
a6-20020a258046000000b00bd7545eab35mr1730415ybn.10.1687042451216; Sat, 17 Jun
2023 15:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 15:54:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <8ed1d0d1-6dd1-41f9-b30a-097f03f103dbn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.9.238.113; posting-account=mEuitgoAAADY9v63PvAUFdA9nsy_ToEE
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.9.238.113
References: <8ed1d0d1-6dd1-41f9-b30a-097f03f103dbn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...
From: kurtadun...@gmail.com (Kurt Duncan)
Injection-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 22:54:11 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3035
 by: Kurt Duncan - Sat, 17 Jun 2023 22:54 UTC

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:12:04 PM UTC-7, Lewis Cole wrote:
> Every so often, someone will ask about whether or not they can get a copy of an old Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys OS for an 1100 or 2200 system, usually because they are thinking about/attempting to write an 1100 or 2200 system simulator/emulator.
> The usual answer (aside from "Why would you want to do such a thing as write an 1100 /2200 simulator when the Company is handing out PS2200?") is, no, you can't get there from here.
> Maybe, just maybe, there is some old 33 level Exec that is now public domain, but Good Luck on ever finding a copy of the source or anything else (like a master or boot tape).
>
> I assume that other Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 1100 or 2200 "execs" like Sigma or Mate are in the same boat, but I've never heard anyone mention anything about OTHER M-Series 2200 OSs which was NOT OS2200 ... in particular the one(s) that was/were supposedly written by Air France.
> IIRC they got a fair bit of documentation from Roseville about the M-Series architecture before the 2200/900 was released, but I never heard anything about happened afterwards.
>
> And IIRC they (Air France) supposedly cooked up an earlier version they wanted on pre-M-Series machines.
> I *THINK* a C-Series machine was the architecture they were interested in developing their own OS for.
>
> Does anyone know whether or not Air France actually cooked up their own 1100/2200 OS and if so what happened to it?
> As the old _National Enquirer_ ads used to say, "Enquiring minds want to know".
Well, it does sort of depend on your definition of old, and whether a boot tape image is sufficient. Of OS2200, I mean, not that french stuff. :-D

Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...

<fc8d9032-bbeb-4cd5-8f76-7fc133af1b48n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=338&group=comp.sys.unisys#338

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1893:b0:3fd:ec53:7a93 with SMTP id v19-20020a05622a189300b003fdec537a93mr381414qtc.9.1687061926929;
Sat, 17 Jun 2023 21:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:440c:0:b0:56c:e058:857d with SMTP id
r12-20020a81440c000000b0056ce058857dmr2762914ywa.6.1687061926675; Sat, 17 Jun
2023 21:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 21:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:602:c080:3f60:b440:e7cf:cf0d:167b;
posting-account=DycLBQoAAACVeYHALMkZoo5C926pUXDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:602:c080:3f60:b440:e7cf:cf0d:167b
References: <8ed1d0d1-6dd1-41f9-b30a-097f03f103dbn@googlegroups.com> <ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <fc8d9032-bbeb-4cd5-8f76-7fc133af1b48n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...
From: l_c...@juno.com (Lewis Cole)
Injection-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 04:18:46 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2101
 by: Lewis Cole - Sun, 18 Jun 2023 04:18 UTC

On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:54:12 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:12:04 PM UTC-7, Lewis Cole wrote:
>> Every so often, someone will ask about whether or
>> not they can get a copy of an old
>> Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys OS
>> for an 1100 or 2200 system, usually because
>> they are thinking about/attempting to write an
>> 1100 or 2200 system simulator/emulator.
< snip >
> Well, it does sort of depend on your definition of old, and
> whether a boot tape image is sufficient. Of OS2200, I mean,
> not that french stuff. :-D

If you're suggesting that you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others, I'm all ears.

Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...

<69609cc1-a69a-485a-a3f9-0f01831d0a26n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=340&group=comp.sys.unisys#340

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:450a:b0:767:4016:29df with SMTP id t10-20020a05620a450a00b00767401629dfmr2580qkp.4.1688088557050;
Thu, 29 Jun 2023 18:29:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:32cc:b0:1b8:3dfb:8395 with SMTP id
i12-20020a17090332cc00b001b83dfb8395mr599052plr.4.1688088556503; Thu, 29 Jun
2023 18:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2023 18:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <fc8d9032-bbeb-4cd5-8f76-7fc133af1b48n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=75.71.150.4; posting-account=mEuitgoAAADY9v63PvAUFdA9nsy_ToEE
NNTP-Posting-Host: 75.71.150.4
References: <8ed1d0d1-6dd1-41f9-b30a-097f03f103dbn@googlegroups.com>
<ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com> <fc8d9032-bbeb-4cd5-8f76-7fc133af1b48n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <69609cc1-a69a-485a-a3f9-0f01831d0a26n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...
From: kurtadun...@gmail.com (Kurt Duncan)
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 01:29:17 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2646
 by: Kurt Duncan - Fri, 30 Jun 2023 01:29 UTC

On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 10:18:47 PM UTC-6, Lewis Cole wrote:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:54:12 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:12:04 PM UTC-7, Lewis Cole wrote:
> >> Every so often, someone will ask about whether or
> >> not they can get a copy of an old
> >> Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys OS
> >> for an 1100 or 2200 system, usually because
> >> they are thinking about/attempting to write an
> >> 1100 or 2200 system simulator/emulator.
> < snip >
> > Well, it does sort of depend on your definition of old, and
> > whether a boot tape image is sufficient. Of OS2200, I mean,
> > not that french stuff. :-D
> If you're suggesting that you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others, I'm all ears.
The problem is that a boot tape, all by itself, is useful in some respects but not all respects.
One could spend hours upon hours *after* developing a dis-assembler, just making sense out of the initial boot code.
So much is now handed off to the SVC instruction, which is only partially documented (for the public), and so much more relies on the partition data bank, which is not at all documented (for the public)...

Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...

<f99d45cb-69f7-480f-afa6-1126ef1d19efn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=342&group=comp.sys.unisys#342

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:190f:b0:765:9f49:6b1d with SMTP id bj15-20020a05620a190f00b007659f496b1dmr3632qkb.3.1688098750310;
Thu, 29 Jun 2023 21:19:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:db01:b0:1b7:eee5:ef5c with SMTP id
m1-20020a170902db0100b001b7eee5ef5cmr825431plx.0.1688098749762; Thu, 29 Jun
2023 21:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2023 21:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <69609cc1-a69a-485a-a3f9-0f01831d0a26n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:602:c080:3f60:9839:7d7:980a:f4af;
posting-account=DycLBQoAAACVeYHALMkZoo5C926pUXDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:602:c080:3f60:9839:7d7:980a:f4af
References: <8ed1d0d1-6dd1-41f9-b30a-097f03f103dbn@googlegroups.com>
<ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com> <fc8d9032-bbeb-4cd5-8f76-7fc133af1b48n@googlegroups.com>
<69609cc1-a69a-485a-a3f9-0f01831d0a26n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f99d45cb-69f7-480f-afa6-1126ef1d19efn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...
From: l_c...@juno.com (Lewis Cole)
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 04:19:10 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4945
 by: Lewis Cole - Fri, 30 Jun 2023 04:19 UTC

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:29:18 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 10:18:47 PM UTC-6, Lewis Cole wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:54:12 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:12:04 PM UTC-7, Lewis Cole wrote:
> > >> Every so often, someone will ask about whether or
> > >> not they can get a copy of an old
> > >> Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys OS
> > >> for an 1100 or 2200 system, usually because
> > >> they are thinking about/attempting to write an
> > >> 1100 or 2200 system simulator/emulator.
> > < snip >
> > > Well, it does sort of depend on your definition of old, and
> > > whether a boot tape image is sufficient. Of OS2200, I mean,
> > > not that french stuff. :-D
> > If you're suggesting that you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others, I'm all ears.
> The problem is that a boot tape, all by itself, is
> useful in some respects but not all respects.

Ummm, okay.

But with all due respect, that really doesn't answer the question that I asked now does it?
Do you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others?

> One could spend hours upon hours *after* developing
> a dis-assembler, just making sense out of the
> initial boot code.
>

Maybe even longer.
But I think I have an advantage that many others might not have in that I used to take care of the care and feeding of the ICLP and Bootstrap code before Mercury (AKA the 2200/900) and I (re-)wrote the ICLP and Bootstrap code originally used for the Mercury.
Although I'm sure that things have changed since then, from my previous experience, I suspect one can probably make reasonably good guesses as to what the code is supposed to do ... but I might be able to make such guesses a bit quicker.

> So much is now handed off to the SVC instruction, [...]

SVC? I think you're thinking of an IBM machine.

> [...] which is only partially documented (for the
> public), [...]

Other than their existence, ELF messages aren't well document outside of HSI-002, which various Unisys documents mention only in passing.
The IMI messages for the 1100/60 aren't documented anywhere that I am aware of except for in the code.
The Good News is that many of the 2200/900 ELF messages aren't/weren't really *REQUIRED* to boot with the main exception that I recall being the console ELFs.
Evidence to support this comes in the form of the fact that FLIT use to have no problem booting simulated 2200/900 and 2200/600 systems.

All of this is stuff that I think *I* may have mentioned many moons ago when the subject of simulating a 2200 system came up so you needn't try to enlighten me about these road blocks.

> [...] and so much more relies on the partition
> data bank, which is not at all documented (for
> the public)...

Well, I don't know how well the PDB is documented these days, but for some reason, I have a general idea of how it used to be structure, which I suspect isn't all that difficult to figure out, even although that wasn't intended.

But let's get back to the question I posed before, shall we?
Do you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others?

Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...

<0994c8b5-e6b8-484e-902c-c1a62a733df0n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=344&group=comp.sys.unisys#344

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:319b:b0:767:15f4:7a81 with SMTP id bi27-20020a05620a319b00b0076715f47a81mr8589qkb.10.1688141301325;
Fri, 30 Jun 2023 09:08:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a63:d04e:0:b0:53f:32cf:bcd1 with SMTP id
s14-20020a63d04e000000b0053f32cfbcd1mr1603733pgi.5.1688141300872; Fri, 30 Jun
2023 09:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.hasname.com!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 09:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <f99d45cb-69f7-480f-afa6-1126ef1d19efn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=75.71.150.4; posting-account=mEuitgoAAADY9v63PvAUFdA9nsy_ToEE
NNTP-Posting-Host: 75.71.150.4
References: <8ed1d0d1-6dd1-41f9-b30a-097f03f103dbn@googlegroups.com>
<ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com> <fc8d9032-bbeb-4cd5-8f76-7fc133af1b48n@googlegroups.com>
<69609cc1-a69a-485a-a3f9-0f01831d0a26n@googlegroups.com> <f99d45cb-69f7-480f-afa6-1126ef1d19efn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <0994c8b5-e6b8-484e-902c-c1a62a733df0n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...
From: kurtadun...@gmail.com (Kurt Duncan)
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 16:08:21 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 5248
 by: Kurt Duncan - Fri, 30 Jun 2023 16:08 UTC

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:19:11 PM UTC-6, Lewis Cole wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:29:18 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 10:18:47 PM UTC-6, Lewis Cole wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:54:12 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:12:04 PM UTC-7, Lewis Cole wrote:
> > > >> Every so often, someone will ask about whether or
> > > >> not they can get a copy of an old
> > > >> Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys OS
> > > >> for an 1100 or 2200 system, usually because
> > > >> they are thinking about/attempting to write an
> > > >> 1100 or 2200 system simulator/emulator.
> > > < snip >
> > > > Well, it does sort of depend on your definition of old, and
> > > > whether a boot tape image is sufficient. Of OS2200, I mean,
> > > > not that french stuff. :-D
> > > If you're suggesting that you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others, I'm all ears.
> > The problem is that a boot tape, all by itself, is
> > useful in some respects but not all respects.
> Ummm, okay.
>
> But with all due respect, that really doesn't answer the question that I asked now does it?
> Do you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others?
> > One could spend hours upon hours *after* developing
> > a dis-assembler, just making sense out of the
> > initial boot code.
> >
> Maybe even longer.
> But I think I have an advantage that many others might not have in that I used to take care of the care and feeding of the ICLP and Bootstrap code before Mercury (AKA the 2200/900) and I (re-)wrote the ICLP and Bootstrap code originally used for the Mercury.
> Although I'm sure that things have changed since then, from my previous experience, I suspect one can probably make reasonably good guesses as to what the code is supposed to do ... but I might be able to make such guesses a bit quicker.
>
> > So much is now handed off to the SVC instruction, [...]
>
> SVC? I think you're thinking of an IBM machine.
>
> > [...] which is only partially documented (for the
> > public), [...]
>
> Other than their existence, ELF messages aren't well document outside of HSI-002, which various Unisys documents mention only in passing.
> The IMI messages for the 1100/60 aren't documented anywhere that I am aware of except for in the code.
> The Good News is that many of the 2200/900 ELF messages aren't/weren't really *REQUIRED* to boot with the main exception that I recall being the console ELFs.
> Evidence to support this comes in the form of the fact that FLIT use to have no problem booting simulated 2200/900 and 2200/600 systems.
>
> All of this is stuff that I think *I* may have mentioned many moons ago when the subject of simulating a 2200 system came up so you needn't try to enlighten me about these road blocks.
>
> > [...] and so much more relies on the partition
> > data bank, which is not at all documented (for
> > the public)...
> Well, I don't know how well the PDB is documented these days, but for some reason, I have a general idea of how it used to be structure, which I suspect isn't all that difficult to figure out, even although that wasn't intended.
>
> But let's get back to the question I posed before, shall we?
> Do you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others?

See my github account, kduncan99 and look for Kalehla

Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...

<db2d8a89-8d1c-4a9c-b8ed-d644330187fen@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=348&group=comp.sys.unisys#348

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:5609:b0:635:e24b:d5c7 with SMTP id mg9-20020a056214560900b00635e24bd5c7mr14406qvb.1.1688185958172;
Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:32:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:b92:b0:66b:f900:c9cc with SMTP id
g18-20020a056a000b9200b0066bf900c9ccmr5493811pfj.5.1688185957590; Fri, 30 Jun
2023 21:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.sys.unisys
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <0994c8b5-e6b8-484e-902c-c1a62a733df0n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:602:c080:3f60:9cbb:10d6:47a6:d6e8;
posting-account=DycLBQoAAACVeYHALMkZoo5C926pUXDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:602:c080:3f60:9cbb:10d6:47a6:d6e8
References: <8ed1d0d1-6dd1-41f9-b30a-097f03f103dbn@googlegroups.com>
<ab55dea7-fbc8-41d1-b5a1-bf8074357719n@googlegroups.com> <fc8d9032-bbeb-4cd5-8f76-7fc133af1b48n@googlegroups.com>
<69609cc1-a69a-485a-a3f9-0f01831d0a26n@googlegroups.com> <f99d45cb-69f7-480f-afa6-1126ef1d19efn@googlegroups.com>
<0994c8b5-e6b8-484e-902c-c1a62a733df0n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <db2d8a89-8d1c-4a9c-b8ed-d644330187fen@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of old non-Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys 2200 OSs ...
From: l_c...@juno.com (Lewis Cole)
Injection-Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 04:32:38 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: Lewis Cole - Sat, 1 Jul 2023 04:32 UTC

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:19:11 PM UTC-6, Lewis Cole wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:29:18 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 10:18:47 PM UTC-6, Lewis Cole wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 3:54:12 PM UTC-7, Kurt Duncan wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:12:04 PM UTC-7, Lewis Cole wrote:
> > > > >> Every so often, someone will ask about whether or
> > > > >> not they can get a copy of an old
> > > > >> Univac/Sperry Univac/Sperry/Unisys OS
> > > > >> for an 1100 or 2200 system, usually because
> > > > >> they are thinking about/attempting to write an
> > > > >> 1100 or 2200 system simulator/emulator.
> > > > < snip >
> > > > > Well, it does sort of depend on your definition of old, and
> > > > > whether a boot tape image is sufficient. Of OS2200, I mean,
> > > > > not that french stuff. :-D
> > > > If you're suggesting that you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others, I'm all ears.
> > > The problem is that a boot tape, all by itself, is
> > > useful in some respects but not all respects.
> > Ummm, okay.
> >
> > But with all due respect, that really doesn't answer the question that I asked now does it?
> > Do you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others?
> > > One could spend hours upon hours *after* developing
> > > a dis-assembler, just making sense out of the
> > > initial boot code.
> > >
> > Maybe even longer.
> > But I think I have an advantage that many others might not have in that I used to take care of the care and feeding of the ICLP and Bootstrap code before Mercury (AKA the 2200/900) and I (re-)wrote the ICLP and Bootstrap code originally used for the Mercury.
> > Although I'm sure that things have changed since then, from my previous experience, I suspect one can probably make reasonably good guesses as to what the code is supposed to do ... but I might be able to make such guesses a bit quicker.
> >
> > > So much is now handed off to the SVC instruction, [...]
> >
> > SVC? I think you're thinking of an IBM machine.
> >
> > > [...] which is only partially documented (for the
> > > public), [...]
> >
> > Other than their existence, ELF messages aren't well document outside of HSI-002, which various Unisys documents mention only in passing.
> > The IMI messages for the 1100/60 aren't documented anywhere that I am aware of except for in the code.
> > The Good News is that many of the 2200/900 ELF messages aren't/weren't really *REQUIRED* to boot with the main exception that I recall being the console ELFs.
> > Evidence to support this comes in the form of the fact that FLIT use to have no problem booting simulated 2200/900 and 2200/600 systems.
> >
> > All of this is stuff that I think *I* may have mentioned many moons ago when the subject of simulating a 2200 system came up so you needn't try to enlighten me about these road blocks.
> >
> > > [...] and so much more relies on the partition
> > > data bank, which is not at all documented (for
> > > the public)...
> > Well, I don't know how well the PDB is documented these days, but for some reason, I have a general idea of how it used to be structure, which I suspect isn't all that difficult to figure out, even although that wasn't intended.
> >
> > But let's get back to the question I posed before, shall we?
> > Do you have access to a boot tape image of just about any version of OS1100/2200 that you can pass along to others?
> See my github account, kduncan99 and look for Kalehla

Ummm, okay.

So if I understand things correctly, the word you are looking for to respond to my question is "no".

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor