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No one wants war. -- Kirk, "Errand of Mercy", stardate 3201.7


computers / comp.os.linux.networking / Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

SubjectAuthor
* IPv6 Hardware FirewallMike Mocha
+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|+- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMike Scott
| `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
+- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
+- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
||`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|| `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
||  +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
||  |`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
||  | `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
||  |  `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
||  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
||   `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
||    `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
| `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
|   `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|    +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|    |+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|    ||`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|    || `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|    ||  `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|    |`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallJorgen Grahn
|    | +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|    | |`- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|    | `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|    |  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|    |   `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|    |    `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|    |     `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|    `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
|     `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|      +- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
|      `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|       +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|       |`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|       | +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|       | |`- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|       | `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|       |  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|       |   +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|       |   |`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallBit Twister
|       |   | `* Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewalljrg
|       |   |  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallBit Twister
|       |   |   `* Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewalljrg
|       |   |    `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallBit Twister
|       |   |     `* Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewalljrg
|       |   |      `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDavid W. Hodgins
|       |   `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|       |    `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|       |     `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|       `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|        `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|         `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|          +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|          |`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|          | `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|          |  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|          |   +- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|          |   `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|          `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|           `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|            +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
|            |`- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|            `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
|             `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
|              `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallRoger Blake
 +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
 |+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
 ||+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
 |||`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
 ||| `- Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewallmeff
 ||`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallVincent Coen
 || `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
 ||  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallVincent Coen
 ||   +- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
 ||   `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
 ||    `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
 ||     `- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallGrant Taylor
 |`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallRoger Blake
 | `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
 |  +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
 |  |+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
 |  ||`* OT Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewalljrg
 |  || `* Re: OT Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
 |  ||  `- Re: OT Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewalljrg
 |  |`- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallRoger Blake
 |  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallRoger Blake
 |   `- Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewalljrg
 `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarc Haber
  +* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMike Mocha
  |+* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
  ||+- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallRoger Blake
  ||`* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDavid Brown
  || `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallMarco Moock
  |+- Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewallmeff
  |`- Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallDan Purgert
  `* Re: IPv6 Hardware FirewallRoger Blake

Pages:1234567
Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:31:27 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Marco Moock - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:31 UTC

Am Sonntag, 13. Februar 2022, um 14:54:10 Uhr schrieb David Brown:

> NAT plays an important part in the security
> in a lot of systems because it provides a huge step at keeping out
> unwanted stuff while being of very little inconvenience to most users.
> And it does this for practically nothing - stand-alone NAT routers for
> small networks cost peanuts, and any serious router for a big network
> will do it with negligible delay or overhead. There are not many
> security measures that are so effective for so low cost.

Every SPI firewall does the same and costs the same. There is
absolutely NO security reason for NAT at all.
SPI works perfectly well and is included for IPv6 in every home router.
SPI also costs nothing but doesn't have the nasty things of NAT.

NAT wasn't intended for security, it was intended for expanding the
lifetime of IPv4.

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

<slrnt0inq7.1rfm.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

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From: grahn+n...@snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: 13 Feb 2022 19:43:03 GMT
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 by: Jorgen Grahn - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 19:43 UTC

On Thu, 2022-02-10, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 10. Februar 2022, um 12:44:56 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:
>
>> On 2/10/22 12:15 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> > Although you need neither port-forwarding nor NAT on v6...
>>
>> Maybe. Maybe not.
>>
>> It depends on the network topology and other layers of the stack,
>> including layers 8 (politics) and 9 (money) influence this.
>
> If you like to have more work (NAT is annoying if using DNS names
> inside and outside of the NAT net), then you can set up NAT for IPv6.

NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality. I'm
mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and that home
routers tend to drop the state after a while so that e.g. long-lived
TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.

> I like the easy way that means no NAT at all whenever possible.
>
> Network is one of the things that last very long, so I don't like nasty
> stuff like NAT there.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:14:14 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Marco Moock - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:14 UTC

Am Sonntag, 13. Februar 2022, um 19:43:03 Uhr schrieb Jorgen Grahn:

> NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality. I'm
> mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and that home
> routers tend to drop the state after a while so that e.g. long-lived
> TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.

Full ack.
That is the reason for unnecessary "keep-alive" packages many
applications send.

Re: OT Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: jeff.g.g...@att.net (jrg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: OT Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 13:27:06 -0800
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: jrg - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:27 UTC

On 2/12/22 12:39, Marco Moock wrote:

> Regardless if you are vaccinated or not, I can decide myself if I want
> to be or not.

Of course you can but you live in a society which affords you a living
and something other than a cave to live in, though it seems you wouldn't
know the difference and you wouldn't have the internet connection, a
good thing since it would remove your ability to spew your skewed
opinion of whats good for everyone.

Fortunately, in the end, Darwin's Law prevails, though its doubtful it
could apply to IPv4/6.

P.S.

my spelchekker suggests Muck or Mooch as an alternative to Moock.
I'll leave that alone...

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: jeff.g.g...@att.net (jrg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:02:44 -0800
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: jrg - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 22:02 UTC

On 2/13/22 01:59, Bit Twister wrote:

> Frontier Fios here in Dallas Texas gives ipv4
> $ wget -qO -http://icanhazip.com
> 47.183.233.188

att gives me
2600:1700:79b1:20c0:2f4:8dff:fea6:fc3b

no clue, just in passing.

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: jeff.g.g...@att.net (jrg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:07:10 -0800
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: jrg - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 22:07 UTC

On 2/13/22 05:54, David Brown wrote:

> As long as/you/ are all right, screw the rest of the world?

sounds like an echo...

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: BitTwis...@mouse-potato.com (Bit Twister)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
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 by: Bit Twister - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 00:05 UTC

On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:02:44 -0800, jrg wrote:
> On 2/13/22 01:59, Bit Twister wrote:
>
>> Frontier Fios here in Dallas Texas gives ipv4
>> $ wget -qO -http://icanhazip.com
>> 47.183.233.188
>
> att gives me
> 2600:1700:79b1:20c0:2f4:8dff:fea6:fc3b
>
> no clue, just in passing.

All those colons instead of 4 dots, tells me your isp, ATT-SBCIS,
is giving out ipv6 addresses.

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: rogbl...@iname.invalid (Roger Blake)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:06:41 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
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 by: Roger Blake - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:06 UTC

On 2022-02-12, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> I agree, IPv4 will keep for at least 10 years, but everybody not
> implementing IPv6 ins his networks slows down the process.

It will probably be longer than that. I am quite happy to be old and in the way.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Reasons I won't be vaccinated -- https://tinyurl.com/ebty2dx3
Covid vaccines: experimental biology -- https://tinyurl.com/57mncfm5
The fraud of "Climate Change" -- https://RealClimateScience.com
There is no "climate crisis" -- https://climatedepot.com
Don't talk to cops! -- https://DontTalkToCops.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: rogbl...@iname.invalid (Roger Blake)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:12:26 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
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 by: Roger Blake - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:12 UTC

On 2022-02-12, Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
> With the vaccination, the price we pay is lifes, with IPv6, it's only
> money.

Sorry, but real-world data contradicts that statement. The safety and
effectiveness of the so-called "vaccines" (which don't actually prevent
spread of the disease) are highly over-rated. The official narrative
does not hold up under close examination.

https://www.informedchoiceaustralia.com/post/1000-peer-reviewed-studies-ques
tioning-covid-19-vaccine-safety

The only way you'll "vaccinate" me is to kill me first.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Reasons I won't be vaccinated -- https://tinyurl.com/ebty2dx3
Covid vaccines: experimental biology -- https://tinyurl.com/57mncfm5
The fraud of "Climate Change" -- https://RealClimateScience.com
There is no "climate crisis" -- https://climatedepot.com
Don't talk to cops! -- https://DontTalkToCops.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: rogbl...@iname.invalid (Roger Blake)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:15:40 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Roger Blake - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:15 UTC

On 2022-02-12, Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
> Quoting the signature for a reason. I am not surprised.
> End of discussion for me.

In other words you cannot support your position(s). I am not surprised.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Reasons I won't be vaccinated -- https://tinyurl.com/ebty2dx3
Covid vaccines: experimental biology -- https://tinyurl.com/57mncfm5
The fraud of "Climate Change" -- https://RealClimateScience.com
There is no "climate crisis" -- https://climatedepot.com
Don't talk to cops! -- https://DontTalkToCops.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: mh+usene...@zugschl.us (Marc Haber)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 08:47:35 +0100
Organization: private site, see http://www.zugschlus.de/ for details
Message-ID: <sud1en$h6kr$1@news1.tnib.de>
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 by: Marc Haber - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 07:47 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>Am Sonntag, 13. Februar 2022, um 19:43:03 Uhr schrieb Jorgen Grahn:
>
>> NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality. I'm
>> mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and that home
>> routers tend to drop the state after a while so that e.g. long-lived
>> TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.
>
>Full ack.
>That is the reason for unnecessary "keep-alive" packages many
>applications send.

And then there are the application that need constant pampering and
additional crutches to work through nat, and probably still lose
significant parts of their functionality even if all crutches are
properly in place.

Those are such unimportant protocols like ftp and SIP/RTP. Heck, who
wants telephony anyway?!?

Greetings
Marc, currently cursed with an unreliable telephone because of NAT
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: mh+usene...@zugschl.us (Marc Haber)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 08:52:18 +0100
Organization: private site, see http://www.zugschlus.de/ for details
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 by: Marc Haber - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 07:52 UTC

Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
>On 2022-02-12, Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>> Quoting the signature for a reason. I am not surprised.
>> End of discussion for me.
>
>In other words you cannot support your position(s).

I don't want to. I have more important things to do than to argue with
idiots.

--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: jeff.g.g...@att.net (jrg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 09:13:54 -0800
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: jrg - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:13 UTC

On 2/13/22 16:05, Bit Twister wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:02:44 -0800, jrg wrote:
>> On 2/13/22 01:59, Bit Twister wrote:
>>
>>> Frontier Fios here in Dallas Texas gives ipv4
>>> $ wget -qO -http://icanhazip.com
>>> 47.183.233.188
>>
>> att gives me
>> 2600:1700:79b1:20c0:2f4:8dff:fea6:fc3b
>>
>> no clue, just in passing.
>
> All those colons instead of 4 dots, tells me your isp, ATT-SBCIS,
> is giving out ipv6 addresses.

Thanks, that much I figured but am surprised you don't get ip6 in
Dallas. I had never seen icanhazip before, don't know why, haven't been
living under a rock...

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: jeff.g.g...@att.net (jrg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 09:14:55 -0800
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: jrg - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:14 UTC

On 2/13/22 18:06, Roger Blake wrote:

> old and in the way

great album, that

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: jeff.g.g...@att.net (jrg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 09:16:37 -0800
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: jrg - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:16 UTC

On 2/13/22 23:52, Marc Haber wrote:
> Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-02-12, Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>>> Quoting the signature for a reason. I am not surprised.
>>> End of discussion for me.
>>
>> In other words you cannot support your position(s).
>
> I don't want to. I have more important things to do than to argue with
> idiots.
>
+1

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: BitTwis...@mouse-potato.com (Bit Twister)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:36:47 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bit Twister - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:36 UTC

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 09:13:54 -0800, jrg wrote:
> On 2/13/22 16:05, Bit Twister wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:02:44 -0800, jrg wrote:
>>> On 2/13/22 01:59, Bit Twister wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frontier Fios here in Dallas Texas gives ipv4
>>>> $ wget -qO -http://icanhazip.com
>>>> 47.183.233.188
>>>
>>> att gives me
>>> 2600:1700:79b1:20c0:2f4:8dff:fea6:fc3b
>>>
>>> no clue, just in passing.
>>
>> All those colons instead of 4 dots, tells me your isp, ATT-SBCIS,
>> is giving out ipv6 addresses.
>
> Thanks, that much I figured but am surprised you don't get ip6 in
> Dallas.

Spectrum Cable is also giving ipv4 to customers.

> I had never seen icanhazip before, don't know why, haven't been
> living under a rock...

Other options of getting your Internet ip address.

curl http://icanhazip.com
curl http://ident.me
curl whatismyip.akamai.com
curl https://ipecho.net/plain
wget -qO - http://icanhazip.com
wget -qO - http://ident.me/
wget -qO - http://smxi.org/opt/ip.php
wget -qO - https://ipecho.net/plain
wget -qO - http://myip.dnsomatic.com/

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:48:30 -0700
Organization: TNet Consulting
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 by: Grant Taylor - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 18:48 UTC

On 2/13/22 12:43 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality.
> I'm mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and
> that home routers tend to drop the state after a while so that
> e.g. long-lived TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.

That's /stateful/ NAT. There is also the older /stateless/ NAT that
does not have this problem.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:50:18 -0700
Organization: TNet Consulting
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 by: Grant Taylor - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 18:50 UTC

On 2/13/22 5:52 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> Thankfully, in technologically advanced countries dual stack or dual
> stack lite Internet Access is commodity and easily bought on the
> market, even with competetive pricing.

There have been MANY technologies to more easily provide IPv6 access
than going dual-stack from end-to-end. Sadly, many ISPs aren't
utilizing them.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:53:39 -0700
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <sugsr5$rmf$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
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 by: Grant Taylor - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 18:53 UTC

On 2/13/22 5:58 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> You're fantasizing.

No I'm not.

I've worked on many servers that have (at least) the following per
interface:

- link-local
- old GUA
- current GUA
- new GUA

With at least three interfaces. 3 x 4 = 12

That all assumes a single IPv6 address per prefix. Many systems that
I've worked on have had multiple IPv6 addresses per prefix as part of
how they offer services:

- management IP
- web service VIP
- mail service VIP

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:56:37 -0700
Organization: TNet Consulting
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 by: Grant Taylor - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 18:56 UTC

On 2/13/22 6:05 AM, Marco Moock wrote:
> site-local is deprecated since years.

Agreed.

Though I still think there are uses for it. E.g. the local SMTP relay
server at this site. Road warriors don't need to reconfigure anything
as they go office to office.

> if they like to use a site-local-scope address range the should use
> ULA and should randomize the bits from bit to to bit 48 to ensure
> they have an unique prefix. If they then want to bring together 2
> links with IPv6 ULA it works fine without changing one address.

That is contrary to the intention behind site-local / anycasted addresses.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
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 by: Marco Moock - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:08 UTC

Am Dienstag, 15. Februar 2022, um 11:48:30 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:

> That's /stateful/ NAT. There is also the older /stateless/ NAT that
> does not have this problem.

I know and stateless NAT64 is a nice feature to make servers reachable
via IPv6 without configuring the entire network, e.g. when implementing
IPv6 is difficult in the current network infrastructure.

It think it will also be used in future for making IPv6-only servers
reachable via IPv4.

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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 by: Marco Moock - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:09 UTC

Am Dienstag, 15. Februar 2022, um 11:50:18 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:

> There have been MANY technologies to more easily provide IPv6 access
> than going dual-stack from end-to-end. Sadly, many ISPs aren't
> utilizing them.

I know, it is really sad.
Especially customers behind CG-NAT aren't able to use SIT to get IPv6
connectivity.

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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 by: Marco Moock - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:11 UTC

Am Dienstag, 15. Februar 2022, um 11:56:37 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:

> > if they like to use a site-local-scope address range the should use
> > ULA and should randomize the bits from bit to to bit 48 to ensure
> > they have an unique prefix. If they then want to bring together 2
> > links with IPv6 ULA it works fine without changing one address.
>
> That is contrary to the intention behind site-local / anycasted
> addresses.

It is, but it makes sure that address conflicts are very seldom if you
need to interconnect such ULA prefixes from to sites.

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:15:00 -0700
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <sugu35$ia2$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
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 by: Grant Taylor - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:15 UTC

On 2/13/22 5:51 AM, Marco Moock wrote:
> They scale very well if you have enough addresses available.

I believe that David was referring to the security implications related
to trust rather than the addressing of the underlying protocol.

If nothing else, based on population size of connected devices.

> Why do we need a hierarchical system here? If we want addresses for
> local-only services we can use ULA. also more than enough addresses
> available for all your needs.

Site-local vs link-local immediately comes to mind.

> That is what big companies and providers tells us. Everybody that
> wants to use VoIP without any problems needs to be reachable from
> the outside.

I've used VoIP without any problem without globally routed addresses.

There is a difference in something being simpler / more pristine vs less
simple / less pristine and still working perfectly fine. The latter
tends to negate the former as arguments for must have global reach ability.

> Then they can operate an SPI firewall. Windows has one enabled by
> default, most home routers have one enabled.

I think that it's important to keep time & context in mind. Windows has
an SPI firewall enabled by default /now/. It did not 20 years ago.

> If you have a good operating system, no server software runs on the
> public addresses. Then there is also no problem at all without NAT
> or an SPI fw.

I will not bet my security on "good operating system" nor "no server
software runs on the public address" /alone/. Does "belt and
suspenders" or "layers of security" mean anything?

> Because of proxy servers and NAT companies like Facebook and Google
> created other methods of tracking. They use User Agents, Cookies,
> Browser storage to identify a user, they don't need an unique IP
> address.

I'm fairly certain that the User-Agent and Cookies headers pre-date wide
adoption of NAT. The definitely pre-date Facebook and Google.

Also, trusting the IP address alone is insufficient. IPs used to be far
more dynamic than they are today. Thus you couldn't rely on them for
identification in the vast majority of situations.

> NAT first creates a flexibility and then you see how bad it is. Think
> about DNS with servers that have private addresses and should have
> a host name. You then need NAT hairpinning and other nasty stuff.

I guess setting up an internal zone to resolve the name to the LAN IP is
"other nasty stuff".

> The main problem of that is that Windows has enabled server software
> like NetBIOS over IP and SMB. This is the problem and NAT/SPI should
> now solve the biggest security problem that MS was able to create?
> Personally, I don't care anymore about windows machines because they
> are insecure by design.
>
> Then do it if you like a really bad network infrastructure. What I
> wanna is that I can switch off IPv4 at all at my side without having
> problems to connect to other's servers.

Currently (2022) you will have better connectivity with IPv4+IPv6 with
NAT than you will with IPv6 only. Sadly, the Internet isn't even close
to parity between IPv4 and IPv6 from a service availability standpoint.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall

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From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:17:47 -0700
Organization: TNet Consulting
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Injection-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:17:33 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Grant Taylor - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:17 UTC

On 2/15/22 12:11 PM, Marco Moock wrote:
> It is, but it makes sure that address conflicts are very seldom if you
> need to interconnect such ULA prefixes from to sites.

I have a problem with going through extra effort on the minuscule off
hand chance that I will want to interconnect with another business
entity that I've never even heard of. Especially if there are other
technologies that allow me to do what I want and not have to worry about
/potential/ conflict.

I can either do the simple thing now and get immediate benefit from all
of the LANs that I administer or I can go through more work now in the
hopes to save some work for an unlikely event in the future.

I'm all for pay-it-forward, but I feel like this is taking it too far.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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