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computers / news.software.nntp / Re: Lots of refused messages

SubjectAuthor
* Lots of refused messagesNigel Reed
`* Re: Lots of refused messagesRuss Allbery
 `* Re: Lots of refused messagesNigel Reed
  `* Re: Lots of refused messagesRuss Allbery
   `* Re: Lots of refused messagesThomas Hochstein
    `* Re: Lots of refused messagesRuss Allbery
     `- Re: Lots of refused messagesJulien ÉLIE

1
Lots of refused messages

<20211126223848.3838bb5d@wibble.sysadmininc.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=346&group=news.software.nntp#346

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Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.endofthelinebbs.com!.POSTED.wibble!not-for-mail
From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Lots of refused messages
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 22:38:48 -0600
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211126223848.3838bb5d@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
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logging-data="1462513"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@wibble.sysadmininc.com"
X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.0.0git362 (GTK+ 3.24.20; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 by: Nigel Reed - Sat, 27 Nov 2021 04:38 UTC

Hi team!

I noticed this in my logs.

Nov 26 22:19:18 wibble innd: ME status seconds 68647 accepted 4000 refused 17638 rejected 79 duplicate 0 accepted size 17968880 duplicate size 0 rejected size 233431

Now, 17,638 refused messages seems like an awful lot. Is there a way to
tell what got refused any why? I'm using cleanfeed but I've not seen a
way to determine what's being blocked.

Could it be something else?

Thanks,

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Re: Lots of refused messages

<87ilwekxaj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: Lots of refused messages
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 21:00:36 -0800
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <87ilwekxaj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <20211126223848.3838bb5d@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
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 by: Russ Allbery - Sat, 27 Nov 2021 05:00 UTC

Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes:

> I noticed this in my logs.

> Nov 26 22:19:18 wibble innd: ME status seconds 68647 accepted 4000 refused 17638 rejected 79 duplicate 0 accepted size 17968880 duplicate size 0 rejected size 233431

> Now, 17,638 refused messages seems like an awful lot. Is there a way to
> tell what got refused any why? I'm using cleanfeed but I've not seen a
> way to determine what's being blocked.

> Could it be something else?

You're thinking of rejected messages, which would be things rejected by
cleanfeed. Refused messages generally mean that you have more than one
feed and happen every time a feed offers you a message that was already
received from another feed.

Refused messages are refused based on the message ID before they were ever
sent, so that is extremely fast and efficient. If you have multiple peers
that send you the same groups, you will (to a first approximation) refuse
(n - 1) * total messages where n is the number of peers, since each peer
will offer you the message but you'll accept it from only one of them.

(Peers to which you sent the message won't send it back to you, so this
isn't entirely accurate.)

tldr, large numbers of refused messages are completely normal when you
have multiple peers and are a sign of everything working like it's
supposed to.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: Lots of refused messages

<20211127170629.499063c9@wibble.sysadmininc.com>

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From: sys...@endofthelinebbs.com (Nigel Reed)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: Lots of refused messages
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 17:06:29 -0600
Organization: End Of The Line BBS
Message-ID: <20211127170629.499063c9@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
References: <20211126223848.3838bb5d@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
<87ilwekxaj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.0.0git362 (GTK+ 3.24.20; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 by: Nigel Reed - Sat, 27 Nov 2021 23:06 UTC

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 21:00:36 -0800
Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:

> You're thinking of rejected messages, which would be things rejected
> by cleanfeed. Refused messages generally mean that you have more
> than one feed and happen every time a feed offers you a message that
> was already received from another feed.

Ah ok. That makes sense. I thought that's what duplicates was so maybe
not. Good to know I'm not throwing away the majority of the newsfeed
then. Thanks for the explanation.

--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

Re: Lots of refused messages

<87h7bxjemu.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: Lots of refused messages
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 16:41:13 -0800
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <87h7bxjemu.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <20211126223848.3838bb5d@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
<87ilwekxaj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Russ Allbery - Sun, 28 Nov 2021 00:41 UTC

Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> writes:
> Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:

>> You're thinking of rejected messages, which would be things rejected by
>> cleanfeed. Refused messages generally mean that you have more than one
>> feed and happen every time a feed offers you a message that was already
>> received from another feed.

> Ah ok. That makes sense. I thought that's what duplicates was so maybe
> not. Good to know I'm not throwing away the majority of the newsfeed
> then. Thanks for the explanation.

Duplicates (yeah, this is confusing) are when a peer sends you the whole
article and then your server realizes it already has it. They should
generally be low and should only happen when peers send articles without
checking first.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: Lots of refused messages

<nsn.20211129191518.2579@scatha.ancalagon.de>

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From: thh...@thh.name (Thomas Hochstein)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: Lots of refused messages
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 19:15:20 +0100
Message-ID: <nsn.20211129191518.2579@scatha.ancalagon.de>
References: <20211126223848.3838bb5d@wibble.sysadmininc.com> <87ilwekxaj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org> <20211127170629.499063c9@wibble.sysadmininc.com> <87h7bxjemu.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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 by: Thomas Hochstein - Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:15 UTC

Russ Allbery schrieb:

> They should generally be low and should only happen when peers send
> articles without checking first.

And when peers send the article nearly simultaneously, so the check is
negative (for both), both transmit, but just one is accepted, I think.

Re: Lots of refused messages

<8735neixmj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: Lots of refused messages
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 11:13:08 -0800
Organization: The Eyrie
Message-ID: <8735neixmj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
References: <20211126223848.3838bb5d@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
<87ilwekxaj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
<20211127170629.499063c9@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
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 by: Russ Allbery - Mon, 29 Nov 2021 19:13 UTC

Thomas Hochstein <thh@thh.name> writes:
> Russ Allbery schrieb:

>> They should generally be low and should only happen when peers send
>> articles without checking first.

> And when peers send the article nearly simultaneously, so the check is
> negative (for both), both transmit, but just one is accepted, I think.

By default, when this happens, innd will defer the article from the second
peer (using a 436 response) rather than accept it from both peers. I
forget how that's counted in the statistics (if it is at all).

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.

Re: Lots of refused messages

<sodnrv$b858$1@news.trigofacile.com>

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From: iul...@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid (Julien ÉLIE)
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: Lots of refused messages
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2021 19:32:31 +0100
Organization: Groupes francophones par TrigoFACILE
Message-ID: <sodnrv$b858$1@news.trigofacile.com>
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<87ilwekxaj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
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logging-data="368808"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@trigofacile.com"
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In-Reply-To: <8735neixmj.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: Julien ÉLIE - Fri, 3 Dec 2021 18:32 UTC

Hi Russ,

> By default, when this happens, innd will defer the article from the second
> peer (using a 436 response) rather than accept it from both peers. I
> forget how that's counted in the statistics (if it is at all).

It is shown in the innd status file:

news.gegeweb.org
ip address: 2001:41d0:2:abb2::119
seconds: 28410 duplicates: 0 max allowed cxns: 8
offered: 318 uw newsgroups: 0 active cxns: 1
accepted: 28 uw distributions: 0 sleeping cxns: 0
refused: 290 unapproved: 0 want streaming: Yes
rejected: 0 filtered: 0 is streaming: Yes
size: 55.6kb bad sites: 0 duplicate size: 0.0kb
reject size: 0.0kb
Protocol:
Ihave: 0 SendIt[335]: 0 Got[435]: 0
Deferred[436]: 0
Check: 380 SendIt[238]: 28 Got[438]: 290
Deferred[431]: 62
Takethis: 28 Ok[239]: 28 Error[439]: 0

Maybe the term "Error" for the 439 response code to TAKETHIS is
misleading. I've seen it for:

Dec 3 05:08:15.137 - feeder.eternal-september.org
<cancel.66e20458-3391-40ce-bd26-4e162cc129e0n@googlegroups.com> 439
User-issued spam cancel

Probably "Rej[439]" would be better ("Rejected" is a bit too long,
unless adding more spaces).

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Bibere humanum est, ergo bibamus. »

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