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computers / comp.mobile.android / Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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* Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Androidsms
+- Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Androidnospam
+* Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus AndroCarlos E.R.
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| +- Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus AndroCarlos E.R.
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|`* Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus AndroDavid Taylor
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+* Re: Total Cost of Ownership???iPhone Versus AndroidMayayana
+* Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus AndroidJerry
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`* Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus AndroidStefan Ram

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Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

<toq5cr$13ol7$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=35841&group=comp.mobile.android#35841

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Android
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 12:17:29 -0800
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 by: sms - Sat, 31 Dec 2022 20:17 UTC

I also added this to the document
<https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> on page 2.

Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

There’s often a debate about the total cost of ownership (TCO) of
Android versus iOS phones. There are many things to consider when trying
to evaluate TCO. Some people want to compare a $200 mid-range Android
device to a $1500 flagship iPhone but of course such comparisons are
ludicrous.

● Compare Devices in the Same Market Segment. It’s important to
compare, no pun intended, apples to apples. There are no low-end
iPhones, Apple competes only in the mid-range and flagship segments. The
average selling price of Android devices will obviously be much lower
than the average selling price of iPhones because of the huge quantity
of low-end and mid-range Android devices being sold all over the world.
So when evaluating TCO you want to compare flagships to flagships and
mid-range to mid-range. Don’t compare a $100 Android device to any iPhone!

● MSRP versus Street Price. Unlocked iPhones purchased directly from
Apple are not discounted (except “friends and family” discounts). There
are no student, educator, first responder, veteran, or military discounts.

By contrast, unlocked Samsung phones purchased directly from Samsung
have a lot of discounts available, as well as referral code discounts.
They are usually at least 5% off MSRP. Samsung often runs promotions
that offer additional discounts. Hence, the initial cost of Samsung
flagship device will usually be a little less than the initial cost of a
comparable iPhone, but there is no massive price difference.

Google often offers amazing discounts, and ridiculously high trade-in
values, on their Pixel devices, which definitely brings the TCO of a
flagship Pixel device below that of a flagship iPhone. Google is heavily
subsidizing Pixel devices which sell in very low volumes. When you don’t
care about making money on the hardware you’re selling it’s easy to sell
it at a low price!

● Carrier Discounts. Carriers offer discounts, or free phones, in
exchange for de-facto contracts. You’re required to finance the phone
for x number of months and they offer a monthly discount off of the plan
cost.

● Trade in Value. Both Apple and Android manufacturers offer discounts
for trade-ins, but Android makers tend to inflate the value of trade-ins
in order to offer a discount without directly cutting the price.

● Resale Value. If you choose to resell your phone yourself, iPhones
retain much more value than Android.

● Accessory Cost. Because iPhones are sold in such huge quantities for
each model, model specific accessories like cases, screen protectors,
and camera protectors, are more widely available at lower prices.

● Longevity. The average time between replacement is longer for iPhones
so the cost per month goes down.

● Repairability. It’s a lot easier to get an iPhone repaired than it is
to get an Android phone repaired, when it comes to common repairs like
batteries and glass. If your iPhone needs a new battery or new screen
glass, you can get this done at an Apple Store. For an Android device it
likely means sending the phone into the manufacturer for repair unless
it's a very popular model that a third-party repair place is able to fix.

The bottom line is that despite the lower trade-in or resale value of a
flagship Android device, the slightly lower initial cost of a flagship
Android device makes the total cost of ownership about the same as a
flagship iPhone device, but in rare cases, like with the Google Pixel 7
Pro, because Google heavily subsidizes the purchase of Pixel devices,
the TCO of an Android device is indeed less. For those users that are
happy with a low-end device, those Android phones can be had for well
under $100 and work acceptably well for some basic functions, though
they will have low-quality cameras, low-quality screens, and slow
processors.

References
---------------
● Why iPhone has better resale value than Android
<https://www.igeeksblog.com/why-iphone-has-better-resale-value-than-android/>
● No, iPhones Aren’t More Expensive Than Android Phones
<https://www.howtogeek.com/776381/no-iphones-arent-more-expensive-than-android-phones/>
● iOS vs Android - Why NOT buying an Apple iPhone will end up costing
you
<https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1250404/Apple-iPhone-iOS-Android-trade-in-values-Samsung-LG-Sony>
● iPhones Vs. Android: Which Phones Hold Their Value Better Explained
<https://screenrant.com/iphone-vs-android-smartphones-long-term-value-comparison-explained/>
● iPhone still holds value far better than other smartphones
<https://www.applemust.com/iphone-still-holds-value-far-better-than-other-smartphones/>

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

<311220221547205764%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Android
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 15:47:20 -0500
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 by: nospam - Sat, 31 Dec 2022 20:47 UTC

In article <toq5cr$13ol7$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> There¹s often a debate about the total cost of ownership (TCO) of
> Android versus iOS phones. There are many things to consider when trying
> to evaluate TCO. Some people want to compare a $200 mid-range Android
> device to a $1500 flagship iPhone but of course such comparisons are
> ludicrous.

true, yet you do exactly that for all sorts of comparisons to suit your
narrative.

>
> ? MSRP versus Street Price. Unlocked iPhones purchased directly from
> Apple are not discounted (except ³friends and family² discounts). There
> are no student, educator, first responder, veteran, or military discounts.

that's another one of your highly disingenuous claims.

most phones, android, ios or even dumbphones, are *not* sold directly
from the manufacturer. instead, they are mostly sold at carrier stores,
including carrier resellers within big box stores and carrier web
sites.

there are all sorts of discounts available for both iphones and android
phones, including for free (under contract).

discounts are often time-limited and may not always be available, such
as a holiday promo, or an introductory special. in some cases, there
are eligibility requirements, such as being a new customer to a
particular carrier, over a certain age, etc.

as for apple's friends and family discount, that's only available for
apple employees who are interested in offering it to others. it's also
not unlimited, so they are likely to be very selective as to whom they
offer it.

further, most people finance their phones, so the full price is largely
irrelevant. an extra few bucks a month gets them a fancier phone.

> By contrast, unlocked Samsung phones purchased directly from Samsung
> have a lot of discounts available, as well as referral code discounts.
....
> Google often offers amazing discounts, and ridiculously high trade-in
> values, on their Pixel devices,

only because they don't sell well on their own.

discounts are *needed* to move inventory.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

<grm68jxato.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Sat, 31 Dec 2022 21:40 UTC

On 2022-12-31 21:17, sms wrote:
> I also added this to the document
> <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> on page 2.

Please do not use shortened URLs on Usenet.

It is:

<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE/edit>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
id
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In-Reply-To: <grm68jxato.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 by: sms - Sat, 31 Dec 2022 21:49 UTC

On 12/31/2022 1:40 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-12-31 21:17, sms wrote:
>> I also added this to the document
>> <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> on page 2.
>
> Please do not use shortened URLs on Usenet.
>
> It is:
>
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE/edit>
>

Actually it's
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
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In-Reply-To: <toqaps$149ob$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Carlos E.R. - Sat, 31 Dec 2022 22:36 UTC

On 2022-12-31 22:49, sms wrote:
> On 12/31/2022 1:40 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2022-12-31 21:17, sms wrote:
>>> I also added this to the document
>>> <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> on page 2.
>>
>> Please do not use shortened URLs on Usenet.
>>
>> It is:
>>
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE/edit>
>>
>
> Actually it's
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>

Well, not according to <https://www.expandurl.net/>

There are three redirects:

3 (hide details)


<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE/>
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE/edit>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: thi...@address.is.invalid (mike)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Android
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 06:23:41 +0530
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 by: mike - Sun, 1 Jan 2023 00:53 UTC

On 31-12-2022 15:17 sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>, on page 2,
> "Cost of Ownership -- iPhone Versus Android."

I looked at that cost of ownership section which has a few problems.
You need to fix some or all of these problems to keep your believability.

The first thing you say is comparing a $200 Android TCO to that of a $1500
"flagship iPhone" is "ludicrous" but what you don't seem to say (or even to
understand) is that there are plenty of people who do buy that $200 Android
who do therefore get a total cost of ownership that's perfectly reasonable.

So it's your assumptions which are "ludicrous", particularly given you are
trying to say that total cost of ownership is less for that $1500 iPhone.

Then you repeat your ludicrous argument in your first bullet item when you
say that people who care about TCO can't consider that $200 Android phone.

What you've done in your first bullet item is exclude everyone who does
care about TCO so that you can then make your spurious case for iPhone TCO.

In your second bullet item, you talk about "MSRP" and "Street Price" but
what you don't seem to comprehend is that you need both for valid
statistics especially since very few people want the hassle of dealing with
finding, researching, and then complying with all the terms and conditions.

Without the MSRP, your calculations are incorrect for most people.

Then you go on to carrier discounts and trade ins, which complicate things
because they vary appreciably and most people just buy the phone outright.

Almost nobody but people like you bother with the trade in hassle, and most
people don't change their carrier plans just to get a complicated discount.

All your advice assumes the person wants the terrible hassles that you do.
Another example is you talk of resale value but you don't realize almost
nobody sells their phone. Most people put it in a drawer or give it away.

Therefore the only realistic "resale value" you can possibly use is zero.
Anything else is you simply cooking the numbers to skew your final result.

Likewise for the resale value of the specific accessories like the case,
protection screen, cable and charger because nobody wants that stuff used.

Your "Accessory Cost" bullet item is just wrong. It's not even close.
You don't seem to understand even one bullet item of what you wrote.

The same goes for "Longevity". It's bull shit what you wrote.
Completely unsupported bull shit.

Again, your "Repairability" is unsupported bull shit for the next bullet.
Not a single statement you made is supported with any real numbers.

What you should do is list two phones and list their prices at the Apple
store and at the store of whatever major carrier you use for Android.

Pick the latest iPhone and the latest Samsung Galaxy & be done with it.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: chrisp...@me.com (Chris Schram)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Android
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 20:35:25 +0000
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 by: Chris Schram - Mon, 2 Jan 2023 20:35 UTC

On 2022-12-31, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Total Cost of Ownership-iPhone Versus Android

The resale value of an iPhone/Android is the same as that of a goat turd.

Most people buy a new phone on Amazon or Ebay or from Google or at a big
box store or at the carrier's store or at Costco or Target or Walmart.

Most of those outlets do not offer a trade in, and of those that do, many
strings are attached which limit greatly your choices & add terms to your
contract that almost nobody but the most frugal will endure as the hassle.

Therefore the only sensible resale value for iPhone or Android is $0.00.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: chrisp...@me.com (Chris Schram)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Android
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 20:48:24 +0000
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 by: Chris Schram - Mon, 2 Jan 2023 20:48 UTC

On 2023-01-02, Chris Schram <chrispam1@me.com> wrote:
> The resale value of an iPhone/Android is the same as that of a goat turd.
>
> Most people buy a new phone on Amazon or Ebay or from Google or at a big
> box store or at the carrier's store or at Costco or Target or Walmart.
>
> Most of those outlets do not offer a trade in, and of those that do, many
> strings are attached which limit greatly your choices & add terms to your
> contract that almost nobody but the most frugal will endure as the hassle.
>
> Therefore the only sensible resale value for iPhone or Android is $0.00.

The resale value if you sell that phone on the open market is also $0.00.

If there's someone selling their phones, the hassle is even greater than
that of a trade in as who is going to invite a dozen different strangers
into their home to look at the phone to sell it to them and then bargain on
the prices for that phone?

Nobody.

Who is going to stand all day in a parking lot with a sign in front of them
saying they're selling their old phone and does anyone want to buy it?

Nobody.

Who is going to create an account just to sell it on Amazon or Ebay or
Craigslist who only has one phone every five years to sell, and then who
has to ship it and then deal with any complaints if it doesn't work?

Nobody.

The only sensible resale value for any phone, Android or iPhone, is zero.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
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 by: David Taylor - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 07:07 UTC

On 02/01/2023 20:35, Chris Schram wrote:
> Most people buy a new phone on Amazon or Ebay or from Google or at a big
> box store or at the carrier's store or at Costco or Target or Walmart.
>
> Most of those outlets do not offer a trade in, and of those that do, many
> strings are attached which limit greatly your choices & add terms to your
> contract that almost nobody but the most frugal will endure as the hassle.

Google do offer trade-in refunds, and the system works well. No contract, no
terms.

--
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

Re: Total Cost of Ownership???iPhone Versus Android

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From: mayay...@invalid.nospam (Mayayana)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total Cost of Ownership???iPhone Versus Android
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 08:20:06 -0500
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 by: Mayayana - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 13:20 UTC

"sms" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote

|I also added this to the document
| <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> on page 2.
| | Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android
|

I agree with Carlos. I just ignore shortened URLs. Then again,
I mostly ignore Google Docs, too. I find it disturbing that people
are treating GD as the Internet. And often I can't figure out how
to get the file because it's encrusted with script. There isn't a
proper webpage with a download link. Google want you glued
into their web in order to see their page.

If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?
Extra points for matching up, especially since Apple likes to
try to break compatibility. What apps do you use? Is there a difference
on the two systems? Are you non-teechy and depend on Apple's
service to keep a copy of your system online? Do you use a cellphone
constantly? Then battery life would matter, no?

iPhones are also a fashion statement. They
tell people, "I'm a prime mating candidate who can afford to blow
thousands of dollars on a cellphone." I know people who like to
pull out their iPhone to gloat over its encyclopedia functionality,
asking Siri about the calories in potatoes vs pasta in the middle
of dinner.

I don't generally use apps and mostly just keep a cellphone on-hand,
not powered up, for when I need to make a phone call away from home.
It's a portable phone booth. I got a TCL Android Tracfone for $40.
Buying service costs $20 every 3 months. It's a nice phone and very
functional if I want to go online with Firefox, which I needed to do
recently. But for a hotshot executive who's constantly texting, I
would imagine $1,500 for an iPhone, and maybe $120/month for
service (?), might seem a bargain.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: hugyb...@gmx.ch (Joerg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
id
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 by: Joerg Lorenz - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 13:54 UTC

Am 03.01.23 um 14:20 schrieb Mayayana:
> I don't generally use apps and mostly just keep a cellphone on-hand,
> not powered up, for when I need to make a phone call away from home.

It is obvious that you have no clue or concept of mobile communication.
Why the heck are you wasting then other people's time with such lengthy
nothing?

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Re: Total Cost of Ownership???iPhone Versus Android

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 by: nospam - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 14:34 UTC

In article <tp1a29$24raf$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
> also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?

that helps, since all purchased apps will work under a family plan,
thereby avoiding each person needing to buy their own copy.

> Extra points for matching up, especially since Apple likes to
> try to break compatibility.

they do not.

> What apps do you use? Is there a difference
> on the two systems?

most apps are available for both, except that they would need to be
purchased separately if one person had an iphone and the other had
android.

some apps are only available on one platform, mostly iphones, because
that's where developers focus their efforts, for a variety of reasons.

> Are you non-teechy and depend on Apple's
> service to keep a copy of your system online?

the system cannot be kept online for reasons that should be obvious.

user data is entirely on the phone. it can *also* be backed up to the
cloud, however, that is not required. it is entirely up to the user
which data, if any, is in the cloud.

there are valid reasons to do that, as there are not to do that. again,
users have a choice.

> Do you use a cellphone
> constantly? Then battery life would matter, no?

no. batteries last 1-2 days in typical use.

of course, there are extreme edge cases where it might not last a day,
in which case, a battery case works well, or recharge midday. for those
who are often in a vehicle (e.g., uber/lyft driver), get a car charger.

> iPhones are also a fashion statement. They
> tell people, "I'm a prime mating candidate who can afford to blow
> thousands of dollars on a cellphone."

except that iphones start at a fraction of that, as little as free with
various promotions.

> I know people who like to
> pull out their iPhone to gloat over its encyclopedia functionality,
> asking Siri about the calories in potatoes vs pasta in the middle
> of dinner.

apparently you know some interesting people.

> I don't generally use apps and mostly just keep a cellphone on-hand,
> not powered up, for when I need to make a phone call away from home.

then you're not in a position to comment on smartphone usage patterns.

> It's a portable phone booth. I got a TCL Android Tracfone for $40.
> Buying service costs $20 every 3 months. It's a nice phone and very
> functional if I want to go online with Firefox, which I needed to do
> recently. But for a hotshot executive who's constantly texting, I
> would imagine $1,500 for an iPhone, and maybe $120/month for
> service (?), might seem a bargain.

that's quite the imagination.

tracfone sells an iphone se for $189, which could be used with the same
service plan you currently have.

<https://www.tracfone.com/phone/apple-iphone-se-64gb-prepaid>

that's a *far* cry from the prices you seem to think apply.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone
Versus Android
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 by: Chris - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 17:05 UTC

Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "sms" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
>
> |I also added this to the document
> | <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> on page 2.
> |
> | Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android
> |
>
> I agree with Carlos. I just ignore shortened URLs. Then again,
> I mostly ignore Google Docs, too. I find it disturbing that people
> are treating GD as the Internet. And often I can't figure out how
> to get the file because it's encrusted with script. There isn't a
> proper webpage with a download link. Google want you glued
> into their web in order to see their page.
>
> If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
> also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?

Also family members. It's hard to be the only family member that isn't on
the same OS as everyone else.

> Extra points for matching up, especially since Apple likes to
> try to break compatibility. What apps do you use? Is there a difference
> on the two systems? Are you non-teechy and depend on Apple's
> service to keep a copy of your system online? Do you use a cellphone
> constantly? Then battery life would matter, no?

Valuing all those things in a TCO calculation will be difficult.

> iPhones are also a fashion statement. They
> tell people, "I'm a prime mating candidate who can afford to blow
> thousands of dollars on a cellphone."

You don't know how much an iphone is, do you?

> I know people who like to
> pull out their iPhone to gloat over its encyclopedia functionality,
> asking Siri about the calories in potatoes vs pasta in the middle
> of dinner.

No-one gloats with Siri. It's the worst of the personal assistants.

> I don't generally use apps and mostly just keep a cellphone on-hand,
> not powered up, for when I need to make a phone call away from home.
> It's a portable phone booth. I got a TCL Android Tracfone for $40.
> Buying service costs $20 every 3 months. It's a nice phone and very
> functional if I want to go online with Firefox, which I needed to do
> recently. But for a hotshot executive who's constantly texting, I
> would imagine $1,500 for an iPhone, and maybe $120/month for
> service (?), might seem a bargain.

Just because someone may have an expensive phone doesn't mean they need a
ridiculously expensive contract. I pay £6 pm with mine.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
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 by: Joerg Lorenz - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 17:48 UTC

Am 03.01.23 um 18:05 schrieb Chris:
> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
>> also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?
>
> Also family members. It's hard to be the only family member that isn't on
> the same OS as everyone else.

*ROTFLSTC*
Short Messages, Telegram, Signal, Threema and even WhatsApp exist.
This is no issue at all.
A family that wants to communicate can communicate irrespective of the
platform.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: hugyb...@gmx.ch (Joerg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
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 by: Joerg Lorenz - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 17:51 UTC

Am 03.01.23 um 18:05 schrieb Chris:
> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> iPhones are also a fashion statement. They
>> tell people, "I'm a prime mating candidate who can afford to blow
>> thousands of dollars on a cellphone."
>
> You don't know how much an iphone is, do you?
>
>> I know people who like to
>> pull out their iPhone to gloat over its encyclopedia functionality,
>> asking Siri about the calories in potatoes vs pasta in the middle
>> of dinner.
>
> No-one gloats with Siri. It's the worst of the personal assistants.
>
>> I don't generally use apps and mostly just keep a cellphone on-hand,
>> not powered up, for when I need to make a phone call away from home.
>> It's a portable phone booth. I got a TCL Android Tracfone for $40.
>> Buying service costs $20 every 3 months. It's a nice phone and very
>> functional if I want to go online with Firefox, which I needed to do
>> recently. But for a hotshot executive who's constantly texting, I
>> would imagine $1,500 for an iPhone, and maybe $120/month for
>> service (?), might seem a bargain.
>
> Just because someone may have an expensive phone doesn't mean they need a
> ridiculously expensive contract. I pay £6 pm with mine.

In the context of this group Mayayana is a badmouthing Troll who has no
understanding of the reality.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Re: Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

<030120231254578760%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2023 12:54:57 -0500
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 by: nospam - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 17:54 UTC

In article <tp1n8m$264t4$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> No-one gloats with Siri. It's the worst of the personal assistants.

bixby says hello.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re:
Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Andr
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 17:59 UTC

On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:48:24 +1100, Chris Schram <chrispam1@me.com> wrote:

> On 2023-01-02, Chris Schram <chrispam1@me.com> wrote:
>> The resale value of an iPhone/Android is the same as that of a goat
>> turd.
>>
>> Most people buy a new phone on Amazon or Ebay or from Google or at a big
>> box store or at the carrier's store or at Costco or Target or Walmart.
>>
>> Most of those outlets do not offer a trade in, and of those that do,
>> many
>> strings are attached which limit greatly your choices & add terms to
>> your
>> contract that almost nobody but the most frugal will endure as the
>> hassle.
>>
>> Therefore the only sensible resale value for iPhone or Android is $0.00.
>
> The resale value if you sell that phone on the open market is also $0.00.

Bullshit.

> If there's someone selling their phones, the hassle is even greater than
> that of a trade in as who is going to invite a dozen different strangers
> into their home to look at the phone to sell it to them and then bargain
> on
> the prices for that phone?

> Nobody.

Plenty flog it on a facebook buy swap sell group.

> Who is going to stand all day in a parking lot with a sign in front of
> them
> saying they're selling their old phone and does anyone want to buy it?

> Nobody.

Plenty flog it on a facebook buy swap sell group.

> Who is going to create an account just to sell it on Amazon or Ebay or
> Craigslist who only has one phone every five years to sell, and then who
> has to ship it and then deal with any complaints if it doesn't work?

> Nobody.

More bullshit.

> The only sensible resale value for any phone, Android or iPhone, is zero.

Only for fools like you.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
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Subject: Re:
Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Andr
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 18:07 UTC

On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 04:05:26 +1100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "sms" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
>>
>> |I also added this to the document
>> | <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> on page 2.
>> |
>> | Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android
>> |
>>
>> I agree with Carlos. I just ignore shortened URLs. Then again,
>> I mostly ignore Google Docs, too. I find it disturbing that people
>> are treating GD as the Internet. And often I can't figure out how
>> to get the file because it's encrusted with script. There isn't a
>> proper webpage with a download link. Google want you glued
>> into their web in order to see their page.
>>
>> If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
>> also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?

> Also family members. It's hard to be the only family member that isn't on
> the same OS as everyone else.

Bullshit.

>> Extra points for matching up, especially since Apple likes to
>> try to break compatibility. What apps do you use? Is there a difference
>> on the two systems? Are you non-teechy and depend on Apple's
>> service to keep a copy of your system online? Do you use a cellphone
>> constantly? Then battery life would matter, no?
>
> Valuing all those things in a TCO calculation will be difficult.
>
>> iPhones are also a fashion statement. They
>> tell people, "I'm a prime mating candidate who can afford to blow
>> thousands of dollars on a cellphone."
>
> You don't know how much an iphone is, do you?
>
>> I know people who like to
>> pull out their iPhone to gloat over its encyclopedia functionality,
>> asking Siri about the calories in potatoes vs pasta in the middle
>> of dinner.
>
> No-one gloats with Siri. It's the worst of the personal assistants.

Bullshit. It tells you the temperature of the Hue movement sensors,
none of the others do that.

Siri is also much more accurate with the external temperature
because the other two lag considerably when its changing fast.

Alexa stupidly decides that you are being silly when you say 'Alexa date'

>> I don't generally use apps and mostly just keep a cellphone on-hand,
>> not powered up, for when I need to make a phone call away from home.
>> It's a portable phone booth. I got a TCL Android Tracfone for $40.
>> Buying service costs $20 every 3 months. It's a nice phone and very
>> functional if I want to go online with Firefox, which I needed to do
>> recently. But for a hotshot executive who's constantly texting, I
>> would imagine $1,500 for an iPhone, and maybe $120/month for
>> service (?), might seem a bargain.
>
> Just because someone may have an expensive phone doesn't mean they need a
> ridiculously expensive contract. I pay £6 pm with mine.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: chrisp...@me.com (Chris Schram)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Android
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 18:59:00 +0000
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 by: Chris Schram - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 18:59 UTC

On 2023-01-03, David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Google do offer trade-in refunds, and the system works well. No contract, no
> terms.

The whole concept is bogus and as a result, it has no meaning at all.

At the lower end of prices, the iPhone doesn't even try to participate.

People at that lower end buy based on price which is what you're intimating
here in that low end people let the price determine what phone they buy.

When you try to get a "good deal", that "good deal" determines which phone
you purchase, which is what people on the low end do - not the high end.

People at the higher end generally let the phone determine what they buy.
Not the price.

Then if the original poster limits himself to only the top tier of both
categories, the one thing that top tier still does NOT care about is TCO.

Even if one or two people who buy in the top tier like he claims they do
did care about TCO, in order to obtain any one discount like that you
mention, you have to let the discount determine what phone you will buy.

That's NOT how people buy phones in the top tier.

Not only are people who buy phones in the top tier going to let some
complicated discount process determine the expensive phone they will own
for the next few years, but they're not going to go through the bother.

Likewise, they're not going to stand out on a street corner with a sign
around their neck frantically trying to sell the old phone at high prices.

Everything is wrong about the concept the original poster is laying out.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - Phone Versus Android

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From: chrisp...@me.com (Chris Schram)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total Cost of Ownership - Phone Versus Android
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:24:26 +0000
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 by: Chris Schram - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:24 UTC

On 2023-01-03, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
>> also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?
>
> that helps, since all purchased apps will work under a family plan,
> thereby avoiding each person needing to buy their own copy.

If the concept is total cost of ownership, you can't assume that the only
way that you can get a good value is to be forced into signing up for a
family plan, nor that you have to use Google Fi or change your carrier and
then drop the contract the moment you can or that you let the "best deal"
you can find determine the phone you are buying if you're in the high end.

>
>> Extra points for matching up, especially since Apple likes to
>> try to break compatibility.
>
> they do not.

If the TCO is going to work out, the math has to work out on a single phone
bought at the manufacturer's price at the manufacturer's store (if that
exists) or on the Internet without all these special terms and conditions.

>
>> What apps do you use? Is there a difference
>> on the two systems?
>
> most apps are available for both, except that they would need to be
> purchased separately if one person had an iphone and the other had
> android.

It's likely that for high end users who care more about their time than
finding a cheaper app that the total cost of iPhone apps are greater than
the total cost of Android apps at the high end customer's perspective.

>
> some apps are only available on one platform, mostly iphones, because
> that's where developers focus their efforts, for a variety of reasons.

There is no doubt in anyone's mind the whales are mostly iPhone owners.

>
>> Are you non-teechy and depend on Apple's
>> service to keep a copy of your system online?
>
> the system cannot be kept online for reasons that should be obvious.
>
> user data is entirely on the phone. it can *also* be backed up to the
> cloud, however, that is not required. it is entirely up to the user
> which data, if any, is in the cloud.
>
> there are valid reasons to do that, as there are not to do that. again,
> users have a choice.

What does backing up user data have to do with total cost of ownership?

>
>> Do you use a cellphone
>> constantly? Then battery life would matter, no?
>
> no. batteries last 1-2 days in typical use.

More expensive phones tend to be larger and larger more expensive phones
tend to have larger batteries but iPhones tend to have smaller batteries
than equivalently sized and priced Android phones (almost always actually).

>
> of course, there are extreme edge cases where it might not last a day,
> in which case, a battery case works well, or recharge midday. for those
> who are often in a vehicle (e.g., uber/lyft driver), get a car charger.

This total cost of ownership calculation should include the cost of the
appropriate charger and cables and all common accessories purchased at the
manufacturer's store in order to have any merit as a general statement.

>
>> iPhones are also a fashion statement. They
>> tell people, "I'm a prime mating candidate who can afford to blow
>> thousands of dollars on a cellphone."
>
> except that iphones start at a fraction of that, as little as free with
> various promotions.

Is this discussion limited to high end phones or does it cover all phones?
If this TCO discussion covers all phones then the iPhone loses instantly.

At the lower end, people tend to let the "as little as free with various
promotions" dictate their choice of personal phone for the next few years.

But at the higher end, people tend to make the merits of the phone dictate
what phone they will own for the next few years - not an awkward discount.

>
>> I know people who like to
>> pull out their iPhone to gloat over its encyclopedia functionality,
>> asking Siri about the calories in potatoes vs pasta in the middle
>> of dinner.
>
> apparently you know some interesting people.

It's funny to watch the Galaxy advertisements making fun of the teens
standing outside the Apple store who only care about the iPhone style.

>
>> I don't generally use apps and mostly just keep a cellphone on-hand,
>> not powered up, for when I need to make a phone call away from home.
>
> then you're not in a position to comment on smartphone usage patterns.

If the discussion is about TCO and if the apps play a role then it has to
be first established how much the Android apps cost versus iPhone apps.

Nobody established that so any TCO discussion without that data is bogus.

>
>> It's a portable phone booth. I got a TCL Android Tracfone for $40.
>> Buying service costs $20 every 3 months. It's a nice phone and very
>> functional if I want to go online with Firefox, which I needed to do
>> recently. But for a hotshot executive who's constantly texting, I
>> would imagine $1,500 for an iPhone, and maybe $120/month for
>> service (?), might seem a bargain.
>
> that's quite the imagination.
>
> tracfone sells an iphone se for $189, which could be used with the same
> service plan you currently have.
>
> <https://www.tracfone.com/phone/apple-iphone-se-64gb-prepaid>
>
> that's a *far* cry from the prices you seem to think apply.

If you are comparing TCO for a $190 phone to a $1500 phone, then the whole
concept of the TCO of iPhone versus Android is bogus for too many reasons.

Everything is wrong about the concept the original poster is laying out.

The original poster has to limit the entire discussion to only the highest
price phones to even give the iPhone any chance at all as Apple doesn't
even try to sell phones in the competitive ranges that most people buy.

Even limited to the highest price phones, the original poster hasn't
established that TCO is even one of the slightest concerns of the buyer.

The argument of the original poster is that he can find a great deal on
some unspecified phone if he complies with all sorts of temporary one-time
terms and conditions, and if he compares that phone to some other phone
where he doesn't even attempt to get a great deal, then the resale value of
the first phone (if he sold it to the highest bidder) is greater than the
resale value of the second phone (if he just dumped it on the market).

The entire concept is bogus as everyone knows the iPhone is the much more
expensive phone if you average the costs for all phones out there using
realistic numbers that are openly on the manufacturers' own web sites.

If the original poster could have made a case, he would have made it.
And he did not.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - iPhone Versus Android

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From: chrisp...@me.com (Chris Schram)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Total Cost of Ownership - iPhone Versus Android
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:24:53 +0000
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 by: Chris Schram - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:24 UTC

On 2023-01-03, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Extra points for matching up, especially since Apple likes to
>> try to break compatibility. What apps do you use? Is there a difference
>> on the two systems? Are you non-teechy and depend on Apple's
>> service to keep a copy of your system online? Do you use a cellphone
>> constantly? Then battery life would matter, no?
>
> Valuing all those things in a TCO calculation will be difficult.

The whole concept that only people in the highest priced market care to
choose their phone and their plan by the TCO is bogus & unsupported.

What the original poster should do is REMOVE this bullet item from his doc.
It's completely bogus in every way you look at it.

Only if the original poster severely constrains the data does it work out.

Re: Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

<tp1vql$15tg$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: chrisp...@me.com (Chris Schram)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:31:42 +0000
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 by: Chris Schram - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:31 UTC

On 2023-01-03, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> No-one gloats with Siri. It's the worst of the personal assistants.
>
> bixby says hello.

How does Siri or Bixby play any role in a total cost of ownership
calculation between any given high end iPhone & similar Android?

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - Phone Versus Android

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 by: nospam - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 20:11 UTC

In article <tp1vd1$vhe$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Chris Schram
<chrispam1@me.com> wrote:

> >> If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
> >> also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?
> >
> > that helps, since all purchased apps will work under a family plan,
> > thereby avoiding each person needing to buy their own copy.
>
> If the concept is total cost of ownership, you can't assume that the only
> way that you can get a good value is to be forced into signing up for a
> family plan,

there is no signup for a family plan.

once again, you demonstrate your ignorance about how things work.

> >> Are you non-teechy and depend on Apple's
> >> service to keep a copy of your system online?
> >
> > the system cannot be kept online for reasons that should be obvious.
> >
> > user data is entirely on the phone. it can *also* be backed up to the
> > cloud, however, that is not required. it is entirely up to the user
> > which data, if any, is in the cloud.
> >
> > there are valid reasons to do that, as there are not to do that. again,
> > users have a choice.
>
> What does backing up user data have to do with total cost of ownership?

the claim was that people must 'depend on apple's service to keep a
copy of your system online', which is easily debunked and doesn't even
make sense. everything is local. the cloud is an optional extra.

> >> Do you use a cellphone
> >> constantly? Then battery life would matter, no?
> >
> > no. batteries last 1-2 days in typical use.
>
> More expensive phones tend to be larger and larger more expensive phones
> tend to have larger batteries but iPhones tend to have smaller batteries
> than equivalently sized and priced Android phones (almost always actually).

yet iphones generally have the longest run times, which is what
matters, not the size of the battery.

> > of course, there are extreme edge cases where it might not last a day,
> > in which case, a battery case works well, or recharge midday. for those
> > who are often in a vehicle (e.g., uber/lyft driver), get a car charger.
>
> This total cost of ownership calculation should include the cost of the
> appropriate charger and cables and all common accessories purchased at the
> manufacturer's store in order to have any merit as a general statement.

almost everyone has chargers and cables from previous phones and other
devices, however, if you insist on adding a charger to the total price,
they're about $10-20. you claim to have bought one for $9.

that's almost nothing over a typical 3-4 year ownership.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone
Versus Android
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 by: Chris - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 20:51 UTC

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 03.01.23 um 18:05 schrieb Chris:
>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>> If you're going to compare TCO then wouldn't usage factors
>>> also come into play? Does you spouse/lover have the same phone?
>>
>> Also family members. It's hard to be the only family member that isn't on
>> the same OS as everyone else.
>
> *ROTFLSTC*
> Short Messages, Telegram, Signal, Threema and even WhatsApp exist.
> This is no issue at all.
> A family that wants to communicate can communicate irrespective of the
> platform.

There's more to it than chatting.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android

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Subject: Re:_Total_Cost_of_Ownership—iPhone_Versus_Andro
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 by: Joerg Lorenz - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 20:56 UTC

Am 03.01.23 um 21:51 schrieb Chris:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> Short Messages, Telegram, Signal, Threema and even WhatsApp exist.
>> This is no issue at all.
>> A family that wants to communicate can communicate irrespective of the
>> platform.
>
> There's more to it than chatting.

E-Mail? Phone calls? Everything platform-agnostic.
Tell us a little more we don't know yet.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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