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computers / comp.mobile.android / Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

SubjectAuthor
* Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSNewsKrawler
`* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purposesms
 `* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSnospam
  `* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSNewsKrawler
   +* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSnospam
   |`* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSNewsKrawler
   | `* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSnospam
   |  `* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSNewsKrawler
   |   +* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSnospam
   |   |`- Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSNewsKrawler
   |   `- Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purposesms
   `* Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purposesms
    +- Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSNewsKrawler
    `- Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMSnospam

1
Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpd1p7$25p5m$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: newskr...@krawl.org (NewsKrawler)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2023 00:12:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: NewsKrawler - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 00:12 UTC

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/qualcomm-says-it-built-a-better-satellite-messaging-system-than-apple/
Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

Qualcomm packs Iridium satellite compatibility into a normal phone.
The connection uses the Iridium protocol, just like a real satellite phone.

Unlike on the iPhone, this is real, two-way, SMS-style texting that you'll
supposedly be able to use for more casual conversations instead of the
iPhone's highly compressed, emergency-only, one-way questionnaire system
that discourages composing a message.

The iPhone is on a different Globalstar constellation with different
characteristics. That Globalstar constellation has only 24 satellites
covering the world, which is not good enough for continuous 24/7 coverage.
These satellites are moving around, so there's a regular up-and-down
cadence to the Globalstar service that lasts for minutes at a time for any
given location. With 66 satellites in the Iridium constellation, you should
always have service, and you might not even need to do that "hold your
phone up" dance to get a connection.

Qualcomm's solution will run on the Iridium satellite constellation-this is
the 25-year-old, 66-satellite network that powers traditional,
purpose-built satellite phones with giant external antennas. Qualcomm says
this is now going to work with normal-sized smartphones and with normal,
internal-only antennas. Qualcomm said "in most cases" you won't even need a
new antenna. Iridium runs in the 1-2 GHz L Band, the same as GPS and some
mid-band cellular services, so your phone already has an antenna for this.

Just like with the iPhone, skipping out on the normal big, external antenna
means dealing with a specific set of compromises. Unlike an always-on
cellular connection, you'll fire up some targeting app and might be asked
to point your phone at a location in the sky and wait for a connection.

Qualcomm's performance promises here seem good compared to Apple's
solution. Grilli says you'll be able to send a "full-size SMS in less than
10 seconds, and on average, it takes three seconds." That's faster than the
iPhone's 15 seconds for an emergency SOS, which is a highly compressed
questionnaire message and not a full SMS.

Presumably, you'll have to pay someone to access the satellite network.
Qualcomm is a chip provider and didn't want to get into ISP or messaging
app details. Texts to 911 (or your local equivalent) will be free, without
any kind of plan, just like how cellular works (this is a law).

If you're paying for a premium plan, Qualcomm's proprietary setup allows
for whatever messaging standard you want to use, either bog-standard SMS
with your normal phone number or some over-the-top service (i.e.,
WhatsApp), but operators will need to figure that out. Some existing
standard would be great since only one person would need to pay for the
satellite service and could talk to the outside world.

Qualcomm says the service will be available in phones in the second half of
the year for phones launched in North America and Europe. Hardware support
technically starts in the Qualcomm Snapdragon Gen 2 SoC, which already has
a few announced devices, but it sounds like satellite compatibility will be
an add-on feature manufacturers need to plan for.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpenik$3sdap$1@dont-email.me>

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose
satellite SMS
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2023 07:30:27 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: sms - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 15:30 UTC

On 1/7/2023 4:12 PM, NewsKrawler wrote:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/qualcomm-says-it-built-a-better-satellite-messaging-system-than-apple/
> Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
>
> Qualcomm packs Iridium satellite compatibility into a normal phone.
> The connection uses the Iridium protocol, just like a real satellite phone.
>
> Unlike on the iPhone, this is real, two-way, SMS-style texting that you'll
> supposedly be able to use for more casual conversations instead of the
> iPhone's highly compressed, emergency-only, one-way questionnaire system
> that discourages composing a message.

It's likely that the iPhone 16 will have a Qualcomm modem with this
capability (unless it's only on modems that are integrated into the
Snapdragon SOC), and that Apple is designing this feature into their own
modem.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<080120231037072874%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2023 10:37:07 -0500
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 by: nospam - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 15:37 UTC

In article <tpenik$3sdap$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Unlike on the iPhone, this is real, two-way, SMS-style texting that you'll
> > supposedly be able to use for more casual conversations instead of the
> > iPhone's highly compressed, emergency-only, one-way questionnaire system
> > that discourages composing a message.
>
> It's likely that the iPhone 16 will have a Qualcomm modem with this
> capability (unless it's only on modems that are integrated into the
> Snapdragon SOC), and that Apple is designing this feature into their own
> modem.

it's likely that you're wrong again.

further, millions of people sending sms via satellite would easily
overwhelm a highly limited resource, so it's almost certainly not
what's being rumoured.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpepre$2b3s1$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: newskr...@krawl.org (NewsKrawler)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:09:19 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: NewsKrawler - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:09 UTC

On 2023-01-08, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> It's likely that the iPhone 16 will have a Qualcomm modem with this
>> capability (unless it's only on modems that are integrated into the
>> Snapdragon SOC), and that Apple is designing this feature into their own
>> modem.
>
> it's likely that you're wrong again.

You know more than Kuo?

https://www.trendradars.com/article-782220-kuo-iphone-se-4-canceled-iphone-16-to-use-qualcomms-5g-modem
Kuo: iPhone 16 to use Qualcomm's 5G modem

> further, millions of people sending sms via satellite would easily
> overwhelm a highly limited resource, so it's almost certainly not
> what's being rumoured.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/qualcomm-says-it-built-a-better-satellite-messaging-system-than-apple/
Hardware support technically starts in the Qualcomm Snapdragon Gen 2 SoC.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/snapdragon-connect
Snapdragon Satellite will provide global connectivity using mobile
messaging from around the world starting with devices based on the flagship
Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 Mobile Platform.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2023/01/qualcomm-introduces-snapdragon-satellite--the-world-s-first-sate
Qualcomm Introduces Snapdragon Satellite, The World's First Satellite-Based
Solution Capable of Supporting Two-Way Messaging for Premium Smartphones
and Beyond

Qualcomm and Iridium entered into an agreement to bring satellite-based
connectivity to next-generation premium Android smartphones; Garmin looks
forward to collaborating with support for emergency messaging.

Snapdragon� Satellite offers truly global coverage from pole to pole and
can support two-way messaging for emergency use, SMS texting, and other
messaging applications - for a variety of purposes such as emergencies or
recreation in remote, rural and offshore locations.

This industry leading solution also provides the opportunity to expand
emergency and two-way satellite messaging beyond smartphones to other
devices needing global messaging capabilities.

https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-assets/documents/snapdragon-connect-requirements-chart.pdf
Snapdragon Connect Requirements Chart

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<080120231121021026%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2023 11:21:02 -0500
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 by: nospam - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:21 UTC

In article <tpepre$2b3s1$1@paganini.bofh.team>, NewsKrawler
<newskrawl@krawl.org> wrote:

>
> You know more than Kuo?

kuo sometimes gets things wrong.

sending ordinary sms messages via satellite, assuming it does happen,
is at best, going to be greatly limited and with a cost per message due
to the highly limited nature of the technology. this should be obvious.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpeqss$3sdap$3@dont-email.me>

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose
satellite SMS
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2023 08:27:06 -0800
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 by: sms - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:27 UTC

On 1/8/2023 8:09 AM, NewsKrawler wrote:

<snip>

> https://www.trendradars.com/article-782220-kuo-iphone-se-4-canceled-iphone-16-to-use-qualcomms-5g-modem
> Kuo: iPhone 16 to use Qualcomm's 5G modem

Qualcomm could make a modem for iPhone that lacks the Iridium
capability, just as they made a modem solely for the iPhone SE3 that
lacks mmWave 5G (X57). Qualcomm will put in, or leave out, whatever
features and functions that Apple wants. Having worked for multiple
semiconductor companies, we did high-volume custom chips all the time,
typically a slightly different version of a standard part, leaving out
unneeded functions to reduce the cost.

What obviously can't happen is for the iPhone to use a Qualcomm modem
with Iridium functionality, for the iPhone to use that functionality,
and then not have that capability present in Apple's own upcoming 5G modem.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpertf$2b9od$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: newskr...@krawl.org (NewsKrawler)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
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 by: NewsKrawler - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:44 UTC

On 2023-01-08, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Qualcomm could make a modem for iPhone that lacks the Iridium
> capability, just as they made a modem solely for the iPhone SE3 that
> lacks mmWave 5G (X57). Qualcomm will put in, or leave out, whatever
> features and functions that Apple wants. Having worked for multiple
> semiconductor companies, we did high-volume custom chips all the time,
> typically a slightly different version of a standard part, leaving out
> unneeded functions to reduce the cost.
>
> What obviously can't happen is for the iPhone to use a Qualcomm modem
> with Iridium functionality, for the iPhone to use that functionality,
> and then not have that capability present in Apple's own upcoming 5G modem.

Initial roll outs are hyped but in two or three years what would say for a
fundamental capabilities comparison of the globalstar versus the iridium
satellite communication systems in terms of what matters to a stricken
Android or iPhone traveler caught in need in a far off remote location?

Same/different features?

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<080120231147225882%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
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 by: nospam - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:47 UTC

In article <tpeqss$3sdap$3@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> What obviously can't happen is for the iPhone to use a Qualcomm modem
> with Iridium functionality, for the iPhone to use that functionality,
> and then not have that capability present in Apple's own upcoming 5G modem.

different models can (and do) have different capabilities.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpetos$2bfj6$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: newskr...@krawl.org (NewsKrawler)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
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 by: NewsKrawler - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 17:16 UTC

On 2023-01-08, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>>> It's likely that the iPhone 16 will have a Qualcomm modem
>>> it's likely that you're wrong
>> You know more than Kuo?
>
> kuo sometimes gets things wrong.

Research the meaning of 'likely' vs 'sometimes' in light of Kuo's accuracy.

>
> sending ordinary sms messages via satellite, assuming it does happen,
> is at best, going to be greatly limited and with a cost per message due
> to the highly limited nature of the technology. this should be obvious.

Why aren't you happy instead of acting like a sore defeatist wet blanket?

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<080120231319114871%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2023 13:19:11 -0500
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 by: nospam - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 18:19 UTC

In article <tpetos$2bfj6$1@paganini.bofh.team>, NewsKrawler
<newskrawl@krawl.org> wrote:

> > sending ordinary sms messages via satellite, assuming it does happen,
> > is at best, going to be greatly limited and with a cost per message due
> > to the highly limited nature of the technology. this should be obvious.
>
> Why aren't you happy instead of acting like a sore defeatist wet blanket?

who said i wasn't happy? i'm simply pointing out the limitations of the
existing technology, unlike those who are deliberately trying to
mislead people.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpf7ta$2ceog$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
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 by: NewsKrawler - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 20:09 UTC

On 2023-01-08, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>> sending ordinary sms messages via satellite, assuming it does happen,
>>> is at best, going to be greatly limited and with a cost per message due
>>> to the highly limited nature of the technology. this should be obvious.
>>
>> Why aren't you happy instead of acting like a sore defeatist wet blanket?
>
> who said i wasn't happy? i'm simply pointing out the limitations of the
> existing technology, unlike those who are deliberately trying to
> mislead people.

Most press releases do not point out the limitations (Apple or Qualcomm).

However Qualcomm's announcement went out of their way to underscore why
the Android iridium setup is less limited than the iPhone globalstar setup.

Now you say the iridium setup is more limited than the globalstar setup.
Who is correct?

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<080120231518455268%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
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 by: nospam - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 20:18 UTC

In article <tpf7ta$2ceog$1@paganini.bofh.team>, NewsKrawler
<newskrawl@krawl.org> wrote:

> However Qualcomm's announcement went out of their way to underscore why
> the Android iridium setup is less limited than the iPhone globalstar setup.

nothing unusual about that. successive iterations add features,
especially from a competitor.

> Now you say the iridium setup is more limited than the globalstar setup.

i didn't say anything of the sort.

what i said was that using a satellite for sms is a limited resource
versus ordinary cell towers, which means using it will be restricted,
likely with a per-message fee and/or a higher tier service plan. it's
not going to be for teenagers to text back and forth all day long.

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpf957$2cicu$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS
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 by: NewsKrawler - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 20:30 UTC

On 2023-01-08, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> it's
> not going to be for teenagers to text back and forth all day long.

Who said it was?

Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose satellite SMS

<tpfbng$3ub90$1@dont-email.me>

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Android one-ups Apple's satellite SOS with general-purpose
satellite SMS
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 by: sms - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 21:14 UTC

On 1/8/2023 12:09 PM, NewsKrawler wrote:
> On 2023-01-08, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> sending ordinary sms messages via satellite, assuming it does happen,
>>>> is at best, going to be greatly limited and with a cost per message due
>>>> to the highly limited nature of the technology. this should be obvious.
>>>
>>> Why aren't you happy instead of acting like a sore defeatist wet blanket?
>>
>> who said i wasn't happy? i'm simply pointing out the limitations of the
>> existing technology, unlike those who are deliberately trying to
>> mislead people.
>
> Most press releases do not point out the limitations (Apple or Qualcomm).
>
> However Qualcomm's announcement went out of their way to underscore why
> the Android iridium setup is less limited than the iPhone globalstar setup.
>
> Now you say the iridium setup is more limited than the globalstar setup.
> Who is correct?

Iridium is much more capable.

The question is how much will it cost to use the Iridium functionality.
Will it be a monthly cost or will people pay per use. The need for the
Iridium or Globalstar functionality is only in extreme circumstances.

If you recall, Iridium went bankrupt, and was almost shut down, because
of a lack of paying customers. It was rescued by the U.S. government
<https://www.spacedaily.com/news/iridium-00g.html>.

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