The Real Bev wrote:

> Addendum: I just realized this was the Android group. It may be noted
> that Blue Mail allows a 'consolidated' inbox that includes all the
> accounts you've given it.

I think FairMail too, which is FOSS & privacy hardened and created by
Marcel Bokhorst who also created NetGuard which is the only Android FOSS
full system firewall.

https://email.faircode.eu/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.email
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/eu.faircode.email/

Note with such tools you're better off not using the Google Play Store
repository- just use your Windows computer to download & install on
Android.

https://netguard.me/
https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.netguard
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to point out a FOSS privacy free related solution.

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> I think FairMail too, which is FOSS & privacy hardened and created by
> Marcel Bokhorst who also created NetGuard which is the only Android FOSS
> full system firewall.
>
> https://email.faircode.eu/
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.email
> https://f-droid.org/en/packages/eu.faircode.email/

I just double checked to ensure FairMail does do what the Real Bev was
suggesting Blue Mail for, and it does... <https://email.faircode.eu/>

Also note that Blue Mail, while I'm sure is a quite excellent program,
so I'm not trying to deprecate TheRealBev's suggestion definitely links in
Google GSF spyware - which you have to ask yourself why since _every_ app
that "claims" to be a privacy-aware app... does not.

Given FairMail FOSS code doesn't link in Google GSF spyware, and given its
Unlimited accounts
Unlimited email addresses
Unified inbox (optionally accounts or folders)

I would suggest a person seeking to replace the GMail MUA consider first
a. FairMail (gsf free)
b. K9Mail (gsf free)
c. BlueMail (links to gsf - why?)
in that order of privacy.

Note that the instant you use the GMail app on any Android phone, it
automatically, without you even wanting it to _creates_ a system account on
your Android device (but not on your iOS device!) even if you didn't have a
system account prior (ask me how I know this).
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to clarify privacy issues while using Android MUAs.

On 01/12/2022 00:22, VanguardLH wrote:
> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Rudolph Rhein wrote:
>>
>>> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, as far as I'm concerned, for most people, using one e-mail
>>>> account with rules to organize the differing content into folders is
>>>> preferable to having multiple accounts. That's what I do.
>>>
>>> There are good reasons for wanting more even if you don't know them.
>>
>> To make it harder work when searching for things?
>
> An local e-mail client, as the consolidator, makes it easy to search
> across multiple e-mail accounts. You're using Thunderbird. Doesn't
> that you search across multiple accounts?
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1109580

Only in a rather pathetic and slow way.
In many cases it's much easier and more effective to search using the
gmail web interface.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> An local e-mail client, as the consolidator, makes it easy to search
>> across multiple e-mail accounts. You're using Thunderbird. Doesn't
>> that you search across multiple accounts?
>>
>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1109580
>
> Only in a rather pathetic and slow way. In many cases it's much easier
> and more effective to search using the gmail web interface.

Thunderbird has 2 modes of creating and maintaining a message store:
mbox or maildir. One doesn't store all messages inside a database, but
instead uses an index to point at messages where each is in a separate
file within the OS file system. I think those separate message files
are text, so you could use [Search] Everything or Agent Ransack (aka
File Locator) to search the folder where all those text message files
are stored.

mbox was the monolithic method of defining a message store: one mbox
file per folder (the ones you see in Tbird's UI). maildir is where each
message is in a separate file, and an index file tracks them. I think
the choice was defined in the mail server setup you define in Tbird.
Some info here:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/maildir-thunderbird

EML format is a text file. The article still says, and has said for a
long time, there are many bugs with maildir. Well, there are 20-year
old bugs still in Tbird, too. Might want to start another thread asking
Tbird users in the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup that opted
for maildir if they've had problems with it. Back when I last used
Tbird, I used maildir, because I wanted access to my messages which were
..eml text files rather than rely on always using Tbird as a front end.

The Real Bev wrote:

>> Now I keep them in a keepass cross platform database, so the last fifty or
>> so I probably can dig up by the domain alone, but, as you can see with all
>> things Ken Blake - his approach is different than that of Frank & TRBev.
>
> I don't trust someone else to handle passwords/phrases/magic spells. I
> like nice clear TEXT. What if they die or go out of business?

Hi TheRealBev,

I don't wish to chastise you but to help you understand better these
password encrypted databases.

You have to consider completely differently the separate (usually payware)
"services" which require a "server" (such as LastPass, afaik) and the free
services which do not require anything whatsoever other than the program
itself (such as keepass).

Keepass (which works on every platform) is just a program that will, at the
basics, maintain an encrypted file of whatever you put in it so it's all
under your control.

*What you put in it are passwords.*

My use model is the following:
a. The keepass "vipw.kdbx" passwd database is maintained on the desktop
b. That master password database is _copied_ to every computing device
c. Once in a blue moon, I bother to synchronize them all up again

If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing happens.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to clarify for others the value of keepass files.

nospam wrote:

>> Damn. Thinking about that, I could run down to my local restaurant that
>> has free WiFi and cancel my ISP and save a bunch, huh... ;)
>
> that's what directional antennas and rf amps are for... :)

I realize people are joking but I've actually tried what nospam suggests.
<https://i.postimg.cc/vT0Krpfc/laptop-nanobeam-horn.jpg> Laptop to horn

Because I care about people, and because I love to both learn and teach,
below is a detailed summary of _how_ to do what nospam is joking about.

You _can_ glom off of an "open" wi-fi access point miles away.
But you have to know what you're doing - and you need the right equipment.

Since Usenet is partly to learn from each other, my experience is that you
"can" obtain Internet service from an access point few miles away if you
have four things (not all of which need to be in one radio).

1. Line of sight (LOS)
2. Transmit power (usually by virtue of watts + directionality)
3. Receiver sensitivity as high as you can afford
4. Alignment
That is, you can connect for miles if both radios have high power output &
receiver sensitivity, or if one radio has very high power output & very
high receiver sensitivity (assuming your line of sight (LOS) alignment has
to set properly).

As long as you have those four things, you can connect to public Wi-Fi.
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfkHW6WG/align.jpg> Align Ubiquiti radio antenna

Assuming line of sight moving forward, the rest boils down to signal
strength & receiver sensitivity, where Android has tons of radio utils.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg> Wi-Fi & cellular utilities

For example, Android can determine what Wi-Fi access points are nearby you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/FRqR6DSq/android-wifi-analyzer.jpg> Wi-Fi analysis

But the problem with Android, as nospam will note, is it doesn't have a
high power directional radio so it can only see stuff that's close to you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg> Android sees close APs only

So you're better off using a high powered radio, which in my case, finds
something like a few hundred Wi-Fi access points line of sight I can see.

However...

While I'm successful obtaining LOS Internet service at 6 miles (10km)...
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg> Typical range is about 10 miles

That's with two directional antennas of this type pointing at each other
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqTk0q1T/ap.jpg> Cellular repeater & home Wi-Fi APs

If you want to pick up the local Barnes & Noble public Wi-Fi, the 1234
problem you have to overcome is you have no control over their radios.

Since your radio transmits up to the legal limits for your country (where
the USA seems to have pretty high limits compared to many others), you will
have no problem reaching that local Starbucks AP with sufficient strength.

The main problem you'll have is the puny Starbucks omni signal strength may
peter out well before it reaches your antenna...

Which is where that nospam said comes into play in that you'll need a
highly directional antenna (like those you see in my photo below).

And that radio will need to have extremely high receiver sensitivity
the further away you are from that public access point.

I do this stuff all the time, although for me, it's so that my puny home
router can reach my barn which is hundreds of feet away across a road
so I can't easily just string a wire to it - but this setup works fine.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gh22Sb2N/desktop.jpg> Desktop MikroTik bridge
<https://i.postimg.cc/6QJqK6Cj/desktop02.jpg> Desktop MikroTik WISP

What I find intriguing and very interesting is that the consumer routers we
all tend to buy at the box stores are "crummy" compared to the pro
transceivers we can buy at about the same price if we can suffer the setup.
<https://i.postimg.cc/DfQJq437/mikrotikrouter.jpg> WISP router transceiver
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2c2L8Wd/mikrotik-router.jpg> Parts cost ~$150 new
<https://i.postimg.cc/yx4CgWYt/mikrotik-router-config.jpg> MikroTik -40dBm

To me, in a funny way, that's the ultimate irony.

Here we are always trying to pay more for a "more powerful" router, when
all we have to do to get something vastly more powerful (in both
directions) at about the same price is look outside the box stores.

I still don't know why they don't sell this stuff in the box stores.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubiquiti>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MikroTik>

But they do sell them elsewhere, so they're very easy to find on the net.
<https://www.amazon.in/Ubiquiti-Networks-M5-High-Power-Station/dp/B00HXT8P9O>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to point out you can glom off a public WiFi AP
but that skill is more useful when you need to connect over long distances.

On 12/2/22 10:14 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> Now I keep them in a keepass cross platform database, so the last fifty or
>>> so I probably can dig up by the domain alone, but, as you can see with all
>>> things Ken Blake - his approach is different than that of Frank & TRBev.
>>
>> I don't trust someone else to handle passwords/phrases/magic spells. I
>> like nice clear TEXT. What if they die or go out of business?
>
> Hi TheRealBev,
>
> I don't wish to chastise you but to help you understand better these
> password encrypted databases.
>
> You have to consider completely differently the separate (usually payware)
> "services" which require a "server" (such as LastPass, afaik) and the free
> services which do not require anything whatsoever other than the program
> itself (such as keepass).
>
> Keepass (which works on every platform) is just a program that will, at the
> basics, maintain an encrypted file of whatever you put in it so it's all
> under your control.
>
> *What you put in it are passwords.*
>
> My use model is the following:
> a. The keepass "vipw.kdbx" passwd database is maintained on the desktop
> b. That master password database is _copied_ to every computing device
> c. Once in a blue moon, I bother to synchronize them all up again
>
> If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing happens.

I liken the whole thing to the reliability of the fingerprint-reader at
the gym -- which misfired perhaps 80% of the time. I like plain text.
I don't like databases. I'm especially annoyed because I am unable to
download my Hangouts history in a usefully-readable form.

--
Cheers, Bev
"To prove my love for you, I had these flowers killed. Put them
in water and it will prolong their slow, agonizing death."
(If John Malkovitch didn't say this, he should have.)

The Real Bev wrote:

>> If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing happens.
>
> I liken the whole thing to the reliability of the fingerprint-reader at
> the gym -- which misfired perhaps 80% of the time. I like plain text.
> I don't like databases.

Hi The Real Bev,

Biometrics aside (as if you know me, I eschew biometric authentication as I
feel it's a rather clever marketing gimmick, mostly foisted upon fools by
the likes of Apple et al., to differentiate commodities such as phones)...

Biometrics aside... you're welcome to dislike any form of password
"storage", especially as you probably don't likely have a whole hellovalot
of passwords to "remember" and you don't "trust" the many commercial
services.

Like you, I don't trust any of the commercial services either, but my point
was directly that keepass is NOT a commercial service which requires a
commercial server. Keepass is just a program that edits a database.

That's all it is.
If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing happens.

You can't not like it logically without having a valid objection to what it
is that you don't like about it. Otherwise it's just an emotional dislike.

For those of us who have a hellovalot of passwords to remember, it's a text
editor that stores those passwords in an encrypted result.

For that purpose, a simple password manager works perfectly.
The other purpose is to be able to _access_ those passwords at any time.

For that, I espouse a "copy" (and/or "sync") model that keeps the encrypted
file off the Internet at all times. It stays on the local device.

To make sure this post, like all my posts, are generally useful to
everyone, here are the cross platform "keepass" tools I found useful.

Windows/Linux/macOS:
<https://keepassxc.org/>
Android:
*Keepass2Android Password Safe* by Croco Apps
Free, ad free, gsf free, rated 4.5 in 32K+ reviews & 1M+ downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=keepass2android.keepass2android>

Note that KeepassXC has options for syncing multiple keepass databases,
and note that the file system of Windows & Android is the same file system
(over Wi-Fi) so syncing the keepass database just gets easier over time.

> I'm especially annoyed because I am unable to
> download my Hangouts history in a usefully-readable form.

Hangouts died, for me, years ago, but the final straw was only recently.

So I have no data on Hangouts, but I do have data in GMail where I can't
even download my GMail "takeout" history in an easily useful form.

Lord knows how bad your Hangouts takeout database looks like, so I can
empathize with your plight.

Making use of a Google takeout database should be a tutorial unto itself.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to espouse the virtue of a cross platform solution.

Windows newsgroup removed.

On 12/3/22 11:02 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing happens.
>>
>> I liken the whole thing to the reliability of the fingerprint-reader at
>> the gym -- which misfired perhaps 80% of the time. I like plain text.
>> I don't like databases.
>
> Hi The Real Bev,
>
> Biometrics aside (as if you know me, I eschew biometric authentication as I
> feel it's a rather clever marketing gimmick, mostly foisted upon fools by
> the likes of Apple et al., to differentiate commodities such as phones)...
>
> Biometrics aside... you're welcome to dislike any form of password
> "storage", especially as you probably don't likely have a whole hellovalot
> of passwords to "remember" and you don't "trust" the many commercial
> services.
>
> Like you, I don't trust any of the commercial services either, but my point
y> was directly that keepass is NOT a commercial service which requires a
> commercial server. Keepass is just a program that edits a database.
>
> That's all it is.
> If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing happens.
>
> You can't not like it logically without having a valid objection to what it
> is that you don't like about it. Otherwise it's just an emotional dislike.

Yup. I was pissed when gmail started its 2-factor security crap too.

> For those of us who have a hellovalot of passwords to remember, it's a text
> editor that stores those passwords in an encrypted result.

I have my own text editor and password file. Plain text. Searchable.
I have hundreds of the damn things, most of which I don't use often
enough to memorize.

> For that purpose, a simple password manager works perfectly.
> The other purpose is to be able to _access_ those passwords at any time.
>
> For that, I espouse a "copy" (and/or "sync") model that keeps the encrypted
> file off the Internet at all times. It stays on the local device.

Exactly.

> To make sure this post, like all my posts, are generally useful to
> everyone, here are the cross platform "keepass" tools I found useful.
>
> Windows/Linux/macOS:
> <https://keepassxc.org/>
> Android:
> *Keepass2Android Password Safe* by Croco Apps
> Free, ad free, gsf free, rated 4.5 in 32K+ reviews & 1M+ downloads
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=keepass2android.keepass2android>
>
> Note that KeepassXC has options for syncing multiple keepass databases,
> and note that the file system of Windows & Android is the same file system
> (over Wi-Fi) so syncing the keepass database just gets easier over time.
>
>> I'm especially annoyed because I am unable to
>> download my Hangouts history in a usefully-readable form.
>
> Hangouts died, for me, years ago, but the final straw was only recently.
>
> So I have no data on Hangouts, but I do have data in GMail where I can't
> even download my GMail "takeout" history in an easily useful form.

I use Thunderbird on my desktop for email, so I already have everything
I need. I regard anything on my phone or the cloud as a temporary
convenience. The IMPORTANT part of my phone is the personalization, and
that I would really regret losing. Apparently that won't happen as long
as I stick to Pixel phones, which is no problem.

> Lord knows how bad your Hangouts takeout database looks like, so I can
> empathize with your plight.
>
> Making use of a Google takeout database should be a tutorial unto itself.

I have yet to see an explanation, or even a suggestion, about making it
usable. It's like looking at an .html file -- the info is there, but
you can't actually get at it without a lot of work that I'd rather not
learn how to do unless somebody paid me to do it. And even then I'd
hate it.

--
Cheers, Bev
While you can't fool all the people all the time, you can fool
enough of them most of the time to make the rest impotent.
-- Anonymous Democrat

On 2022-12-03 11:02, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing happens.
>>
>> I liken the whole thing to the reliability of the fingerprint-reader
>> at the gym -- which misfired perhaps 80% of the time.  I like plain
>> text. I don't like databases.
>
> Hi The Real Bev,
>
> Biometrics aside (as if you know me, I eschew biometric authentication as I
> feel it's a rather clever marketing gimmick, mostly foisted upon fools by
> the likes of Apple et al., to differentiate commodities such as phones)...

Phones which contain lots and lots of private and personal information.

Carry on.

>
> Biometrics aside... you're welcome to dislike any form of password
> "storage", especially as you probably don't likely have a whole hellovalot
> of passwords to "remember" and you don't "trust" the many commercial
> services.
>
> Like you, I don't trust any of the commercial services either, but my point
> was directly that keepass is NOT a commercial service which requires a
> commercial server. Keepass is just a program that edits a database.
>
> That's all it is. If the entity that makes keepass goes bust, nothing
> happens.
>
> You can't not like it logically without having a valid objection to what it
> is that you don't like about it. Otherwise it's just an emotional dislike.
>
> For those of us who have a hellovalot of passwords to remember, it's a text
> editor that stores those passwords in an encrypted result.
>
> For that purpose, a simple password manager works perfectly. The other
> purpose is to be able to _access_ those passwords at any time.
>
> For that, I espouse a "copy" (and/or "sync") model that keeps the encrypted
> file off the Internet at all times. It stays on the local device.

Then to what is it being '"cop[ied]"' 'and/or' '"sync[ed]"'?

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 26 Nov 2022 21:09:49 -0500, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>I'm going for lunch some place tomorrow, and to someone else next month,
>and I have two Android phones full of pictures. Both have wanted to see
>my pictures in the past.
>
>Is there any clever way with a cable to connect an Android phone to
>their PC and show them like a slidewhow. I mean software. (It will
>make the picture bigger so all can see at once.)
>
>Especially if it's already in the PC. One of them won't want to install
>more software.

Thanks for all the help. There are 90 posts in this thread and I
haven't read them at all yet, but I wanted to report what happened.

I was at lunch for 3 hours, but it didn't seem the right time to suggest
their watching the pictures, and I didn't want to stay longer either.

But I used the technique at home that MajorLanGod and Jim Dell suggested
to watch them myself before I went to lunch, for about 2 hours. And I'm
very happy to have this method.

I have Irfanview and Xnview and Faststone and another viewer that came
with my Fuji camera (though I found it online for free also) and I like
them all, especially Lossless Rotation, and they probabaly don't have
the problems that I detailed in my aswer to Jim, but I got around those
problems at home and would have at my friends' too.

I'll read all the other posts and improve my technique for times when
it's not an impromptu part of lunch.

On 12/3/2022 1:01 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> I have my own text editor and password file. Plain text.
> Searchable. I have hundreds of the damn things, most of which I don't
> use often enough to memorize.

I use a password text file also. But I use a formula to choose my
passwords. It goes something like:

$ + T + first 3 letters of organization name + my first employee number
+ last 2 letters of organization name + my second employee number + 1313

So for example my Firefox password would be $Tfir1234ox56781313

It looks complicated but is actually relatively easy for me to remember
and saves many look-ups.

Some outfits require an email address for a username which of course I
use my fake address. Otherwise I use my fake name or initials times 3
(ajlajlajl). And of course if it's a legitimate site I use my real info.

I keep my password text file for when I get a brain freeze as a
permanent Gmail draft. It's easy to update on any device and the updated
list is likewise available on any device. Hopefully my amateur encrypted
passwords will fool Google...

> I was pissed when gmail started its 2-factor security crap too.

I set mine so that I only have to use 2FA to verify a new device ONCE.
After that no more bugging. The overly paranoid can set it to verify
every time but that's way too much of a PITA for me. Either way (IMO)
the extra security is worth it over nothing...

On 12/3/22 2:51 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 12/3/2022 1:01 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I have my own text editor and password file. Plain text.
>> Searchable. I have hundreds of the damn things, most of which I don't
>> use often enough to memorize.
>
> I use a password text file also. But I use a formula to choose my
> passwords. It goes something like:
>
> $ + T + first 3 letters of organization name + my first employee number
> + last 2 letters of organization name + my second employee number + 1313
>
> So for example my Firefox password would be $Tfir1234ox56781313
>
> It looks complicated but is actually relatively easy for me to remember
> and saves many look-ups.

Perhaps, but far more typing than I'd be willing to do :-( I also have
trouble even READING text with a combination of letters and numbers --
looks almost as confusing as Cyr8llic. If they're happy with 8
characters then so am I, although I'd vastly prefer NOT having to hit
the shift key :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
--Revolution Books, New York, New York

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 23:36:01 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 12/3/22 2:51 PM, AJL wrote:
>> On 12/3/2022 1:01 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> I have my own text editor and password file. Plain text.
>>> Searchable. I have hundreds of the damn things, most of which I don't
>>> use often enough to memorize.
>>
>> I use a password text file also. But I use a formula to choose my
>> passwords. It goes something like:
>>
>> $ + T + first 3 letters of organization name + my first employee number
>> + last 2 letters of organization name + my second employee number + 1313
>>
>> So for example my Firefox password would be $Tfir1234ox56781313
>>
>> It looks complicated but is actually relatively easy for me to remember
>> and saves many look-ups.
>
>Perhaps, but far more typing than I'd be willing to do :-( I also have
>trouble even READING text with a combination of letters and numbers --
>looks almost as confusing as Cyr8llic. If they're happy with 8
>characters then so am I, although I'd vastly prefer NOT having to hit
>the shift key :-(

Ditto to all the above, except for Cyrillic. Although I know almost no
Russian words, I *can* read the Cyrillic alphabet.

On 12/4/2022 12:36 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/3/22 2:51 PM, AJL wrote:

>> I use a formula to choose my passwords. It goes something like:

>> $ + T + first 3 letters of organization name + my first employee
>> number + last 2 letters of organization name + my second employee
>> number + 1313

>> So for example my Firefox password would be $Tfir1234ox56781313

>> It looks complicated but is actually relatively easy for me to
>> remember and saves many look-ups.

> Perhaps, but far more typing than I'd be willing to do :-(

Fortunately many sites require you only to use the password ONCE per
device. Firefox for example. And that's just to sync my account
bookmarks. It's much easier to enter a password once when using a new
device than redo all my Firefox bookmarks. Course Firefox like many
others requires no password at all if you don't want to sync.

> I also have trouble even READING text with a combination of letters
> and numbers -- looks almost as confusing as Cyr8llic.

The above was just an example of my password system. I generally use the
minimum password requirement on non-critical sites. Likewise I get more
complicated with serious sites like bank accounts.

> I'd vastly prefer NOT having to hit the shift key :-(

Unfortunately many sites require a number, capital letter, $@&, etc, in
the password and won't let you proceed without one. It's just better
security of course. However many apps these days will let you proceed
with a fingerprint or face. My bank app will take a fingerprint. However
I still use my old system there. Old fashioned I guess...

On 03.12.2022 23:51, AJL wrote:

> I keep my password text file for when I get a brain freeze as a
> permanent Gmail draft. It's easy to update on any device and the updated
> list is likewise available on any device. Hopefully my amateur encrypted
> passwords will fool Google...

But for a password text file you really should use some sort
of strong encryption. If somebody get hold of your file, he
has all your collected login credentials. I use a simple aes
encryption program and with

aes32 mypassword <mypasswordfile|find "some search string"

the login data for one site is displayed without having
first to decrypt the whole file to a temporary file on disk.

The program is so small, that it is no problem to store it
with any copy of the password file (source and description
http://ikomi.de/pub/assembler/aes32.zip ):

@echo off
certutil -f -decode %~f0 aes32.exe>nul
goto :eof

-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE-----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-----END CERTIFICATE-----

On 12/4/2022 9:22 AM, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> On 03.12.2022 23:51, AJL wrote:

>> I keep my password text file for when I get a brain freeze as a
>> permanent Gmail draft. It's easy to update on any device and the
>> updated list is likewise available on any device. Hopefully my
>> amateur encrypted passwords will fool Google...

> But for a password text file you really should use some sort of
> strong encryption.

I do use encryption in my password text file. It's brain encryption and
the key numbers are in my brain. They are two employment numbers from my
past life and difficult to forget even with my fading memory.

For example if my password for Firefox is Tfir1234ox6789 then my
password text file would show it as (T)fir*ox*. I doubt most folks would
be able to figure that out. Damn, well except now for all you Usenet
folks...

The Real Bev wrote:

>> You can't not like it logically without having a valid objection to what it
>> is that you don't like about it. Otherwise it's just an emotional dislike.
>
> Yup. I was pissed when gmail started its 2-factor security crap too.

What Google did with 2FA a few months ago turned out to be, IMHO, only
_temporarily_ criminal (as it took ~3 months for FOSS MUAs to recover).

During that ~3month recovery period, those people who aren't as resilient
as I am, fell prey to Google's temporarily forcing them into 2FA setups.

If it hadn't been for excellently informed people like Andy Burns, I too
might have fallen pry to the fact that Google, temporarily, forced
_everyone_ on Android using a 3rd-party MUA onto 2FA /MVA/2SV/MSV.

However... I must say that anyone _intelligent_ isn't using it and, I must
say that my credibility is stellar in that I access my Google mail on
Android _without_ a Google Account on the phone and _without_ any 2FA.

*You just have to be both informed, and _intelligent_ about it.*
(We've covered this in gory detail already, so that's just my summary.)
>
>> For those of us who have a hellovalot of passwords to remember, it's a text
>> editor that stores those passwords in an encrypted result.
>
> I have my own text editor and password file. Plain text. Searchable.
> I have hundreds of the damn things, most of which I don't use often
> enough to memorize.

Yup. Most of us do. There are zillions of text editors for Android and
zillions of ways to put passwords into them.

On Windows, what I do is type "vipw" and that opens my password file.
Win+R > vipw

On Windows, I do the same for my phone numbers:
Win+R > phone

And I do the same for my parts buying for car parts:
Win+R > car

And the same for my todolists and gift buying:
Win+R > todo
Win+R > buy
Win+R > gps

On infinitum.

That's because my registry has these user-defined keys I added long ago:
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\key.exe
Where the key is the keyword above and where the default is the file.
phone.exe @default = c:\path\to\phone.csv
car.exe @default = c:\path\to\car.txt
todo.exe @default = c:\path\to\todo.txt
buy.exe @default = c:\path\to\buy.txt
gpx.exe @default = c:\path\to\gpx.gpx
Again, as always, *you just have to be informed & _intelligent_ about it*.

>> So I have no data on Hangouts, but I do have data in GMail where I can't
>> even download my GMail "takeout" history in an easily useful form.
>
> I use Thunderbird on my desktop for email, so I already have everything
> I need. I regard anything on my phone or the cloud as a temporary
> convenience. The IMPORTANT part of my phone is the personalization, and
> that I would really regret losing. Apparently that won't happen as long
> as I stick to Pixel phones, which is no problem.

I also use Thunderbird, which, as we discussed in gory detail when Google
forced Android MUA clients to _temporarily_ use 2FA, Thunderbird already
handled that recent change without causing any issues.

It was only on Android that we had to _temporarily_ suspend usage of
3rd-party MUAs if we didn't want to enable Google's 2FA/2SV methods.

I repeat that Android 3rd-party MUA 2FA/2SV requirement was only temporary.
>> Making use of a Google takeout database should be a tutorial unto itself.
>
> I have yet to see an explanation, or even a suggestion, about making it
> usable. It's like looking at an .html file -- the info is there, but
> you can't actually get at it without a lot of work that I'd rather not
> learn how to do unless somebody paid me to do it. And even then I'd
> hate it.

I feel for you given a Hangouts takeout might be even worse than an email
takeout, which is pretty bad. I have them archived but I haven't found any
decent way to efficiently interact yet with those Google takeout results.

Your description is apropos that the information is there... but it's just
not presented in anything you'd consider usable. I empathize with you.

If, someday, I bother to decipher the Google takeout results for the email
accounts, I may try to write a tutorial - but for now I just archive them.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to agree with and empathize with The Real Bev.

On 12/4/22 6:56 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 23:36:01 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 12/3/22 2:51 PM, AJL wrote:
>>> On 12/3/2022 1:01 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have my own text editor and password file. Plain text.
>>>> Searchable. I have hundreds of the damn things, most of which I don't
>>>> use often enough to memorize.
>>>
>>> I use a password text file also. But I use a formula to choose my
>>> passwords. It goes something like:
>>>
>>> $ + T + first 3 letters of organization name + my first employee number
>>> + last 2 letters of organization name + my second employee number + 1313
>>>
>>> So for example my Firefox password would be $Tfir1234ox56781313
>>>
>>> It looks complicated but is actually relatively easy for me to remember
>>> and saves many look-ups.
>>
>>Perhaps, but far more typing than I'd be willing to do :-( I also have
>>trouble even READING text with a combination of letters and numbers --
>>looks almost as confusing as Cyr8llic. If they're happy with 8
>>characters then so am I, although I'd vastly prefer NOT having to hit
>>the shift key :-(
>
> Ditto to all the above, except for Cyrillic. Although I know almost no
> Russian words, I *can* read the Cyrillic alphabet.

I keep meaning to learn to translate it. One of these days...

BTW, the 8 in Cyrillic was a typo resulting from difficulty in finding
the cursor. I positively ITCH to change it, but upon reflection it
seems kind of appropriate.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Americans are looking for more government in their life,
not less." -- Colin Powell, former Good Guy

On 12/4/22 8:22 AM, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> On 03.12.2022 23:51, AJL wrote:
>
>> I keep my password text file for when I get a brain freeze as a
>> permanent Gmail draft. It's easy to update on any device and the updated
>> list is likewise available on any device. Hopefully my amateur encrypted
>> passwords will fool Google...
>
> But for a password text file you really should use some sort
> of strong encryption. If somebody get hold of your file, he
> has all your collected login credentials.
If some miscreant gets hold of my computer and manages to find the file,
I'm probably dead and no longer care!

--
Cheers, Bev
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's
safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs. --Unknown

The Real Bev wrote:

>> But for a password text file you really should use some sort
>> of strong encryption. If somebody get hold of your file, he
>> has all your collected login credentials.
> If some miscreant gets hold of my computer and manages to find the file,
> I'm probably dead and no longer care!

Hi TheRealBev,

*Do you feel threatened enough to put a lock on your phone?*

I have a question related to your assessment that a text file with the
passwords works just fine for you (which I completely understand).

Most people are (a) stupid, and (b) gullible, such that (c) they assess
risk however the (rather clever) marketing organizations feed them to.

Examples abound where, for example, Apple convinced _billions_ of iPhone
users their chargers were going to electrocute them if they didn't have the
Apple logo on them, or, for example, how _any_ tire company sells tires.

Moving back to the point of password security, my assessment is people go
for biometrics because PINs are such a PITA (understandably so) but why
even bother with locking a cellphone in the first place?

Does everyone live in the slums such that they're afraid of everyone around
them snatching their phone right out of their very hands (or purse/pocket)?

Which slum do people live in that they're _that_ afraid of everyone near
them such as their own spouse and kids and friends and neighbors?

What's the _physical_ threat of someone snatching their phone from them?

My risk assessment puts that physical thread of nearly zero, so I don't
even have a pin, let alone any marketing induced biometric gimmicks.

But what about you?
*Do you feel threatened enough to put a lock on your phone?*
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to question the marketing phonelock gimmicks.

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:09 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 12/4/22 6:56 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 23:36:01 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 12/3/22 2:51 PM, AJL wrote:
>>>> On 12/3/2022 1:01 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have my own text editor and password file. Plain text.
>>>>> Searchable. I have hundreds of the damn things, most of which I don't
>>>>> use often enough to memorize.
>>>>
>>>> I use a password text file also. But I use a formula to choose my
>>>> passwords. It goes something like:
>>>>
>>>> $ + T + first 3 letters of organization name + my first employee number
>>>> + last 2 letters of organization name + my second employee number + 1313
>>>>
>>>> So for example my Firefox password would be $Tfir1234ox56781313
>>>>
>>>> It looks complicated but is actually relatively easy for me to remember
>>>> and saves many look-ups.
>>>
>>>Perhaps, but far more typing than I'd be willing to do :-( I also have
>>>trouble even READING text with a combination of letters and numbers --
>>>looks almost as confusing as Cyr8llic. If they're happy with 8
>>>characters then so am I, although I'd vastly prefer NOT having to hit
>>>the shift key :-(
>>
>> Ditto to all the above, except for Cyrillic. Although I know almost no
>> Russian words, I *can* read the Cyrillic alphabet.
>
>I keep meaning to learn to translate it. One of these days...

Back in my tournament chess playing days--50-60 years ago--I used to
get and study the Russian chess magazine Shakhmaty. The moves of
published games were easy to understand, but the name of the players,
in Cyrillic, were not. So I treated it as a cryptogram, and figured
out the letters. I still remember them

>BTW, the 8 in Cyrillic was a typo

That's what I assumed.

>resulting from difficulty in finding
>the cursor. I positively ITCH to change it, but upon reflection it
>seems kind of appropriate.

Windows group removed.

On 12/4/22 11:34 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> But for a password text file you really should use some sort
>>> of strong encryption. If somebody get hold of your file, he
>>> has all your collected login credentials.
>> If some miscreant gets hold of my computer and manages to find the file,
>> I'm probably dead and no longer care!
>
> Hi TheRealBev,
>
> *Do you feel threatened enough to put a lock on your phone?*

No, actually. I've been thinking of putting a swipe-lock on it though
-- I have the screen set to turn off after 1 minute and turn on when I
tap the power switch. I suspect (based on what happened to my Lenovo
tablet) that the switch is likelier to wear out with use than the screen...

> I have a question related to your assessment that a text file with the
> passwords works just fine for you (which I completely understand).
>
> Most people are (a) stupid, and (b) gullible, such that (c) they assess
> risk however the (rather clever) marketing organizations feed them to.
>
> Examples abound where, for example, Apple convinced _billions_ of iPhone
> users their chargers were going to electrocute them if they didn't have the
> Apple logo on them, or, for example, how _any_ tire company sells tires.

I do wonder (but not much, though) about the harm that cheap wall-warts
(or cigarette-lighter power units) and associated cheap USB cables might
do to our rechargeable devices.

My Goodyear OEM tires are 9 years old. 35K miles. Plenty of tread.
Dealer says I should replace them because of age. No. I really like
the tires (better cornering than any I've EVER had) and when I do
replace them I think I'll get the same ones.

> Moving back to the point of password security, my assessment is people go
> for biometrics because PINs are such a PITA (understandably so) but why
> even bother with locking a cellphone in the first place?

I've lost credit cards. No idea how I could do such a stupid thing, but
I have. Repeatedly. Especially the one I use most often. Accordingly,
it's not beyond the realm of possibility that I could lose my phone. I
would purely hate to have to change all my passwords, assuming I could
even remember which apps HAD passwords and/or a separate web presence.

The fingerprint reader at my old gym convinced me that such devices are
untrustworthy.

> Does everyone live in the slums such that they're afraid of everyone around
> them snatching their phone right out of their very hands (or purse/pocket)?

I worry about my purse being snatched -- the idea of losing my wallet
AND my phone is disturbing. I had a rotten kid grab my purse out of my
shopping cart a long time ago, but a Good Samaritan ran after him and
got my purse back. The kid got my cash and just left the rest and ran.
Nice neighborhood. I never left my purse in my shopping cart again.

> Which slum do people live in that they're _that_ afraid of everyone near
> them such as their own spouse and kids and friends and neighbors?

OTOH, homeless populations are increasing everywhere.

> What's the _physical_ threat of someone snatching their phone from them?

There's a photo in the local fishwrap about some organization feeding
the homeless. The woman receiving the largesse has her hand out for
whatever is being given, but she can't be bothered to get off the phone
in her other hand. I've seen seemingly-homeless people with iPhones.

> My risk assessment puts that physical thread of nearly zero, so I don't
> even have a pin, let alone any marketing induced biometric gimmicks.
>
> But what about you?
> *Do you feel threatened enough to put a lock on your phone?*

Maybe tomorrow...

--
Cheers, Bev
If you're ever about to be mugged by a couple
of clowns, don't hesitate - go for the juggler.

The Real Bev wrote:

> I do wonder (but not much, though) about the harm that cheap wall-warts
> (or cigarette-lighter power units) and associated cheap USB cables might
> do to our rechargeable devices.

Dunno your version of Android but mine (Android 12, Samsung) has an option
to limit battery charging to 85% to preserve long term battery life.

> My Goodyear OEM tires are 9 years old. 35K miles. Plenty of tread.
> Dealer says I should replace them because of age. No. I really like
> the tires (better cornering than any I've EVER had) and when I do
> replace them I think I'll get the same ones.

The dealer will always sow fear to get you to replace tires, although six
years is generally the oft-stated limit due to oxidation of the rubber.

It all depends on your risk assessment, and of course on an inspection of
the tires to see if there are any cracks. I have seen passenger tires which
failed concentrically due to age but often it's also due to flat spotting.

Me? I mount and balance my own tires at home, which I suspect is something
one in a million car owners do, so I'm not worried about wearing them down
to the belts if I feel like it. I also adjust my own alignment, again, one
in a million car owners probably do that, where both tasks, like almost all
automotive maintenance tasks, just get easier and cheaper to do over time.

Note: Those people who claim that car maintenance gets harder and more
expensive over time are almost always the people who never did it.

>> Moving back to the point of password security, my assessment is people go
>> for biometrics because PINs are such a PITA (understandably so) but why
>> even bother with locking a cellphone in the first place?
>
> I've lost credit cards. No idea how I could do such a stupid thing, but
> I have. Repeatedly. Especially the one I use most often. Accordingly,
> it's not beyond the realm of possibility that I could lose my phone. I
> would purely hate to have to change all my passwords, assuming I could
> even remember which apps HAD passwords and/or a separate web presence.
>
> The fingerprint reader at my old gym convinced me that such devices are
> untrustworthy.

I agree with you that the biometrics are not necessary, and, in the end, if
you manage your phone properly, losing it loses nothing you can't easily
replace (except for maybe a few recent photos that weren't backed up yet).

There's nothing on a phone of any value if it's well managed anyway.

>> Does everyone live in the slums such that they're afraid of everyone around
>> them snatching their phone right out of their very hands (or purse/pocket)?
>
> I worry about my purse being snatched -- the idea of losing my wallet
> AND my phone is disturbing. I had a rotten kid grab my purse out of my
> shopping cart a long time ago, but a Good Samaritan ran after him and
> got my purse back. The kid got my cash and just left the rest and ran.
> Nice neighborhood. I never left my purse in my shopping cart again.

I was robbed in Munich, and that was a pita - but you get over it when it
happens, just like you get over when a phone is dropped or you brick it.

>
>> Which slum do people live in that they're _that_ afraid of everyone near
>> them such as their own spouse and kids and friends and neighbors?
>
> OTOH, homeless populations are increasing everywhere.

My main point of the slum is people are _proud_ that they fall for the
trick of biometrics where I'm trying to bring home the absurdity of what
(rather clever) marketing people are telling them is a dire threat.

If people really _need_ biometrics, then they must fear that everyone
around them is trying to snatch their phone out of their hands, which means
they must live in a slum.

I just want to know which slum they live in that they feel they must use
those biometrics marketing gimmicks all day, every day of their lives.

Marketing is designed to make fools live in fear.

>> What's the _physical_ threat of someone snatching their phone from them?
>
> There's a photo in the local fishwrap about some organization feeding
> the homeless. The woman receiving the largesse has her hand out for
> whatever is being given, but she can't be bothered to get off the phone
> in her other hand. I've seen seemingly-homeless people with iPhones.

My point about the slums isn't meant to be taken literally.

My point is that marketing makes fools feel afraid that everyone around
them will be stealing their phone at every opportunity.

Those fools fall for these biometric marketing gimmicks.

>
>> My risk assessment puts that physical thread of nearly zero, so I don't
>> even have a pin, let alone any marketing induced biometric gimmicks.
>>
>> But what about you?
>> *Do you feel threatened enough to put a lock on your phone?*
>
> Maybe tomorrow...

I didn't actually think you felt threatened, since putting a lock on a
phone is absurd in terms of ameliorating risk unless people live in the
slums where the risk of someone snatching away their phone at every second
is greater than if they live in a normal location.

What's really happening is...
a. (Clever) marketing makes people feel threatened by everyone around them
b. Then that (clever) marketing tells them biometrics are the answer
c. Because biometrics are easier than a pin

And yet, the real threat, unless we live in the slums, is NOT our spouses,
our kids, our family, our friends and neighbors...

Only a fool thinks that it is (or a person who lives in the slums).
Hence, it's absurd to lock your phone to protect against a threat that
doesn't exist (unless you live in the slums - and then it does exist).

Biometrics is for people who live in the slums.

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