I always wondered why my iPhone Xr's GPS was not as accurate as that on
my Android devices. Now I know!

<https://medium.com/@importanttech/we-tested-mobile-gps-gnss-accuracy-and-found-some-surprising-results-b9ec35873e2e>.

Wish they would repeat this analysis on newer iPhones.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> I always wondered why my iPhone Xr's GPS was not as accurate as that on
> my Android devices. Now I know!
>
> <https://medium.com/@importanttech/we-tested-mobile-gps-gnss-accuracy-and-found-some-surprising-results-b9ec35873e2e>.
>
> Wish they would repeat this analysis on newer iPhones.

Even on my Android smartphone, I've had to reset GPS by deleting and
re-downloading the A-GPS database.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS

I use the GPS Status app by MobiWIA Kft at:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpsstatus2

I paid $2.14 USD for the Pro version to get rid of the ads and get some
additional features. Alas, when I try to go to the Google Play Store's
page for the Pro version, it's not there anymore.

https://mobiwia.com/gpsstatus/getpro/ has a Play Store link to
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpstoolbox.pro
but that reports "requested URL was not found". No idea what happened
to the Pro version.

I've not found GPS in smartphones to be very accurate. Yes, a guided
missile wouldn't care about being off 2 to 4 meters (unless it's trying
to fly through a window in a building) when it impacts and explodes, but
being off 12 meters when you return to a huge parking lot (e.g., Disney
theme parks) makes it tough to find your car, and everyone else leaving
the park at the same time using their key fobs to make their cars beep
means a lot full of beeping cars.

I've tried several "find your car" apps, and settled on ParKing
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=il.talent.parking.premium)
which uses GPS to record where you parked, and where you are to lead you
back to your car. Sometimes it shows my car within about 4 meters of
where it is, but sometimes I'm off by a row, or two, in the parking lot
using the app to find my car. I have it configured to use a Bluetooth
disconnect to know when I parked (my BT goes off when the ignition is
turned off). It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
your car.

sms wrote:

> I always wondered why my iPhone Xr's GPS was not as accurate as that on
> my Android devices. Now I know!
>
> <https://medium.com/@importanttech/we-tested-mobile-gps-gnss-accuracy-and-found-some-surprising-results-b9ec35873e2e>.
>
> Wish they would repeat this analysis on newer iPhones.

Notable conclusions...
The tested _iPhones suck at location accuracy_ when only GNSS is used.
The tested Android devices (Pixel & Galaxy) were far better in all ways.

*Often iPhones were more than an order of magnitude worse in accuracy!*
*Often iPhones are five times less accurate than Apple _claims_ they are*

Who knew Apple lied about location performance of the iPhone. (quote)
"*The iPhone XR overvalued its accuracy by 450%*"

Notable charts...
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*6M1CWsA3IZ2M1i_Hja4umg.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*psFQY8BD491lDufnmBk1jw.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*eNRIxbWP6pwMKr2-LgOJdg.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*PozyVyqG6vPEEAsxMe-R9A.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*UqRd7xBpWV92uKC-43W2CA.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*dzQUtNSHSZI2Me8yu6CZEg.webp>

I limited this summary to just a dozen key takeaways...
1. GNSS refers to a variety of satellite systems used across the globe.
These systems include GPS (US), GLONASS (Russia), Galileo (EU),
BeiDou (China), QZSS (Japan) and IRNSS (India).

2. Date: May 19th, 2020
Our next test will be in September 2020 (where is it?).

3. Why? We predict accidents with motorcyclists, cyclists & pedestrians.

4. Ultimate goal: Submeter accuracy. Not there yet.
But that's why typical achieved GNSS accuracy matters.

5. Half-inch accuracy using "Arrow Gold" Survey-Grade RTK Accuracy meter.
<https://eos-gnss.com/products/hardware/arrow-gold>

6. Five common phones were tested.
Apple iPhone XR
Apple iPhone 6 SE
Samsung Galaxy 10 Note+
Google Pixel 4
Samsung Core A2

7. All five phones were tested under two fundamental conditions (five).
a. The path taken by the phone (straight vs. curved)
b. Use case of the phone (in hand, in jacket, in pants)

8. In all cases, Apple iPhones seriously underperformed in accuracy.

9. In all cases, Apple lied about the accuracy of their iPhones.

10. Precision was 20% higher precision when moving compared to when still.

11. Accuracy was better on longer paths than on shorter paths.

12. Accuracy & precision is better with phone held stable in your hand
and a coat pocket is better than a swinging hand or pants pocket.

In summary, Apple lied like Apple _always_ lies, and the tested Android
phones outperformed the tested iPhones by an order of magnitude or more.

What else is new?
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to

sms wrote:

> I always wondered why my iPhone Xr's GPS was not as accurate as that on
> my Android devices. Now I know!
>
> <https://medium.com/@importanttech/we-tested-mobile-gps-gnss-accuracy-and-found-some-surprising-results-b9ec35873e2e>.
>
> Wish they would repeat this analysis on newer iPhones.

This thread topic is best leveraged among iPhone & satellite experts.

Notable conclusions...
The tested _iPhones suck at location accuracy_ when only GNSS is used.
The tested Android devices (Pixel & Galaxy) were far better in all ways.

*Often iPhones were more than an order of magnitude worse in accuracy!*
*Often iPhones are five times less accurate than Apple _claims_ they are*

Who knew Apple lied about location performance of the iPhone. (quote)
"*The iPhone XR overvalued its accuracy by 450%*"

Notable charts...
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*6M1CWsA3IZ2M1i_Hja4umg.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*psFQY8BD491lDufnmBk1jw.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*eNRIxbWP6pwMKr2-LgOJdg.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*PozyVyqG6vPEEAsxMe-R9A.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*UqRd7xBpWV92uKC-43W2CA.webp>
<https://miro.medium.com/max/720/1*dzQUtNSHSZI2Me8yu6CZEg.webp>

I limited this summary to just a dozen key takeaways...
1. GNSS refers to a variety of satellite systems used across the globe.
These systems include GPS (US), GLONASS (Russia), Galileo (EU),
BeiDou (China), QZSS (Japan) and IRNSS (India).

2. Date: May 19th, 2020
Our next test will be in September 2020 (where is it?).

3. Why? We predict accidents with motorcyclists, cyclists & pedestrians.

4. Ultimate goal: Submeter accuracy. Not there yet.
But that's why typical achieved GNSS accuracy matters.

5. Half-inch accuracy using "Arrow Gold" Survey-Grade RTK Accuracy meter.
<https://eos-gnss.com/products/hardware/arrow-gold>

6. Five common phones were tested.
Apple iPhone XR
Apple iPhone 6 SE
Samsung Galaxy 10 Note+
Google Pixel 4
Samsung Core A2

7. All five phones were tested under two fundamental conditions (five).
a. The path taken by the phone (straight vs. curved)
b. Use case of the phone (in hand, in jacket, in pants)

8. In all cases, Apple iPhones seriously underperformed in accuracy.

9. In all cases, Apple lied about the accuracy of their iPhones.

10. Precision was 20% higher precision when moving compared to when still.

11. Accuracy was better on longer paths than on shorter paths.

12. Accuracy & precision is better with phone held stable in your hand
and a coat pocket is better than a swinging hand or pants pocket.

In summary, Apple lied like Apple _always_ lies, and the tested Android
phones outperformed the tested iPhones by an order of magnitude or more.

What else is new?
--
V yrsg gung ynfg yvar nf onvg sbe gur puvyq-yvxr vXbbxf gb srnfg hcba.

VanguardLH wrote:

>> Wish they would repeat this analysis on newer iPhones.
>
> Even on my Android smartphone, I've had to reset GPS by deleting and
> re-downloading the A-GPS database.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS

I admit, up front, I don't know a lot about GNSS and A-GPS, where folks
like nospam and Alan Browne know more than I ever will know about it
(mostly because, for me, it just works, so I don't need to do anything).

But to your specific point of manually re-loading the A-GPS database,
may I ask you "why"... or... more specifically... how do you know you need
to reload it?

What "evidence" or "telltale observation" tells you that you need to
reload the A-GPS database for a phone you've been using every day on GPS?

To be perfectly clear, I've _never_ "felt" the need to do that in all my
years with Android (and prior to that I used plenty of Garmin devices).

Even with the crappy iPads (which truly suck at radio hardware), I don't
feel the need to re-load the A-GPS database - so I wonder how you know
when you need to load it.

What observation do you use to determine you need to reload the A-GPS data?

NOTE: I repeat I know next to nothing about the A-GPS, so if the answer to
how you know you need to reload it is obvious, just state what it is for me.
> I use the GPS Status app by MobiWIA Kft at:
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpsstatus2
> I paid $2.14 USD for the Pro version to get rid of the ads and get some
> additional features. Alas, when I try to go to the Google Play Store's
> page for the Pro version, it's not there anymore.

We've discussed this app at length Vanguard, and it's fine that you love it
but I would rather use the FOSS app that I have no evidence your developer
copied, except his app looks "suspiciously" similar in very many ways.

I have an _excellent_ memory Vanguard, so I remember EVERY claim you made
that I have no proof that your developer copied from the FOSS app.

But it's similar enough for me to recommend the FOSS SatStat app to others.
<https://gitlab.com/mvglasow/satstat>
<https://f-droid.org/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/>

Please don't argue (as you did long ago and I didn't forget anything)
unless you have something _new_ to bring to the table we didn't cover.
> https://mobiwia.com/gpsstatus/getpro/ has a Play Store link to
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpstoolbox.pro
> but that reports "requested URL was not found". No idea what happened
> to the Pro version.

Agree this URL I just tested is "not found" in the Google Play Store repo.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpstoolbox.pro>

Since it's Android, and not iOS, the functionality to find and install old
apps is almost infinite (whereas iOS is crippled), so here's just one link
that purports to be the old app (best to pull it off an old phone though).
<https://www.rottlegacy.com/en/com-eclipsim-gpstoolbox-pro/>
<https://apkcombo.com/gps-status-pro-legacy-key/com.eclipsim.gpstoolbox.pro/>
<https://hola.org/access/apk/com.eclipsim.gpstoolbox.pro>
etc.

> I've not found GPS in smartphones to be very accurate. Yes, a guided
> missile wouldn't care about being off 2 to 4 meters (unless it's trying
> to fly through a window in a building) when it impacts and explodes,

My experience is different than yours, where I use GPS all the time for
backcountry hiking (e.g., Avenza Maps + USGS topographic maps) over here.

These free apps work on both my iPads and my Android phones for any map
that is a geoPDF map (which is most downloaded PDF maps nowadays).

*Avenza Maps* Offline Mapping by Avenza Systems Inc., In-app purchases
Free, ad free, 4.6 star, 72.6K reviews, 1M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Avenza>
<https://www.avenza.com/avenza-maps/>
<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id388424049>

*Paper Maps* by Abbro Inc, In-app purchases
Free, ad free, 5K+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.abbro.androidmap>
<https://www.paper-maps.com/>
<https://apps.apple.com/app/nextmap/id1147385120>

What's nice for all the 256 US Parks is this app which works offline,
but it requires you to plan ahead & download tiles to use it offline.
*OuterSpatial* by OuterSpatial
free, ad free, requires gsf, rated 3.4 out of 113 reviews @ 10K+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.trailheadlabs.outerspatial>
<https://www.outerspatial.com/>
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/outerspatial/id1254161962>

> but
> being off 12 meters when you return to a huge parking lot (e.g., Disney
> theme parks) makes it tough to find your car,
> and everyone else leaving
> the park at the same time using their key fobs to make their cars beep
> means a lot full of beeping cars.

Most people are dumb and stupid so what they would do is use Google Maps
on the Internet to find their car (it has a find-my-car feature built in).

Others are smarter and can figure out how to use the built-in find-my
parked car feature of FOSS offline maps such as the free OSMAnd~ app.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/>
<https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd>

It's free on F-Droid but not if you get the same app on Google Play Store.
*OsmAnd& Maps & GPS Offline by OsmAnd, In-app purchases
Free, ad free, 4.5 star, 153K reviews, 10M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand.plus>
The Google Play Store repo does have a free version; but I've never used it.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand>

The find-my-car feature is surprisingly useful, as it gives you
an offline map to your car and verbal directions using pathways.
For finding my car without needing maps, I've recently started using:
*GPS Waypoint Finder* by keuwlsoft
free, ad free, gsf free, 3.9 star, 1.35K reviews, 100K+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.gpswaypoints>
Which will point to your car and tell you what the distance to it is
(and it even autocorrects for how you hold the phone & declination).

> I've tried several "find your car" apps, and settled on ParKing
> (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=il.talent.parking.premium)
> which uses GPS to record where you parked, and where you are to lead you
> back to your car. Sometimes it shows my car within about 4 meters of
> where it is, but sometimes I'm off by a row, or two, in the parking lot
> using the app to find my car. I have it configured to use a Bluetooth
> disconnect to know when I parked (my BT goes off when the ignition is
> turned off). It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
> your car.

There are plenty of free find-my-parked-car apps on both platforms,
some of which (as I recall) use bluetooth to figure out when
you are parked so that you only need to use the app when looking for it.

*Parked Car* by Myroslav Kolodii
Free, ad free, requires GSF, 4.4 star, 179 reviews, 10K+Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.unagit.parkedcar>

*Car Location* by DigitalBox Studios
Free, ad free, requires GSF, not rated, not reviewed, 500+Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.carparking.location>

*Find my parked car* by Aurum App
Free, has ads, requires GSF, 4.6 star, 32.7K reviews, 1M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.carfind>

The problem I have with _all_ those apps is the sneaky move they perform.
*Do you know if there is a way to permanently disable precise location?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/ggawmi_4tAc>

In essence, any location app that employs Google GSF spyware can (& does)
make sneaky non-Android-native calls to turn on your GPS radios such as:
Google Location Accuracy = assisted_gps_enabled
Wi-Fi scanning = wifi_scan_always_enabled
Bluetooth scanning = ble_scan_always_enabled
Because they all (if they have GSF spyware linked in) seem to ask for:
android.permission.ACCESS_BACKGROUND_LOCATION
android.permission.ACCESS_COURSE_LOCATION
android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION

It would take someoen more intelligent than I am to figure out how to
automatically turn all those off, although adb should be able to do it.
C:\> adb shell pm grant <sample.package.id> android.permission.<PERMISSION_NAME>
C:\> adb shell pm revoke <sample.package.id> android.permission.<PERMISSION_NAME>

The problem isn't removing the permissions; the problem is figuring out
how to make the app work _after_ the permissions have been removed.

If anyone on this newsgroup is smart enough to do that, please say how.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to expound on the many aspects of Vanguard's post.

In article <12hejmgsk933v.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
wrote:

>
> Even on my Android smartphone, I've had to reset GPS by deleting and
> re-downloading the A-GPS database.

that happens automatically whenever it's stale.

>
> I've not found GPS in smartphones to be very accurate.

then you need a better smartphone.

> Yes, a guided
> missile wouldn't care about being off 2 to 4 meters (unless it's trying
> to fly through a window in a building) when it impacts and explodes, but
> being off 12 meters when you return to a huge parking lot (e.g., Disney
> theme parks) makes it tough to find your car, and everyone else leaving
> the park at the same time using their key fobs to make their cars beep
> means a lot full of beeping cars.

it should be much better than 12m, but even with that, 12m is close
enough to be able to find the correct vehicle.

nospam wrote:

>> Even on my Android smartphone, I've had to reset GPS by deleting and
>> re-downloading the A-GPS database.
>
> that happens automatically whenever it's stale.

I agree with nospam that for Vanguard to manually load the A-GPS
information, he would likely need to have a reason to do so.

>> I've not found GPS in smartphones to be very accurate.
>
> then you need a better smartphone.

I'm curious if he's using GPS every day, what might be an observation he
might make that tells him that he needs to re-download the A-GPS database?

>> Yes, a guided
>> missile wouldn't care about being off 2 to 4 meters (unless it's trying
>> to fly through a window in a building) when it impacts and explodes, but
>> being off 12 meters when you return to a huge parking lot (e.g., Disney
>> theme parks) makes it tough to find your car, and everyone else leaving
>> the park at the same time using their key fobs to make their cars beep
>> means a lot full of beeping cars.
>
> it should be much better than 12m, but even with that, 12m is close
> enough to be able to find the correct vehicle.

I agree that when you're looking for your own car, being close enough
should be good enough to find it, as your memory will be jogged even if
it's a common white Tesla Model Y hiding in the huge Costco parking lot.

Some of the free find-my-car apps I previously listed also have a
parking-meter alarm feature, which can warn you when time is almost up.

These find-my-parked-car apps are certainly enticing to most people...

But what I find disturbing is how rude & ignorant most people are who
habitually put on the Google Maps Suicide Vest - which harms everyone.
*Remember where you parked with Google Maps*
<https://blog.google/products/maps/remember-where-you-parked-google-maps/>

These rude people ignorantly trade their convenience for your privacy.

When they could have used their brains instead, by using an app
that doesn't hurt everyone around you, in addition to yourself.

In terms of the privacy of the people around you, to use Google Maps with
the default settings is to wear a suicide vest which harms everyone around
you in that it uploads _their_ private information to Google Servers
without you obtaining any permission whatsoever from those people around
you.

What gives you the right to upload their unique GPS location and unique
identifier to their home router, for example, just because you drove by?

On 1/23/23 2:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

> It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
> your car.

Walking out of an unfamiliar Costco to find your rental car, except you
can't remember its make or color :-( "I think it was kind of to the
right..."

I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.
It was willing to email coordinates or save them to a text file, but
that seems needlessly complex, especially in a pseudo-emergency.

I also tried the app that Andy suggested, which may or may not have
worked. The compass function of my phone is frequently strange both
before and after 'calibration'. North is frequently west. Or east.
Even when not near metal and with an open view to the south. It
pointed in a direction which might have been kind of right and said 13.9
miles, which I had to measure with google earth (why doesn't google maps
have that function?) and which was pretty much correct. Clearly much
more useful when closer to the actual parking place.

When I deleted that waypoint and set one at my current location, it told
me I was 7809 miles away from where I was. Does it somehow think that
I'm on the other side of the earth and that the 8,000 mile diameter we
were taught is only an approximation? I don't want to think about that...

--
Cheers, Bev
"Yahoo has released its own search engine. For more info,
type 'yahoo search engine' into Google." -D.Miller

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:14:11 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/23/23 2:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
>> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
>> your car.
>
>Walking out of an unfamiliar Costco to find your rental car, except you
>can't remember its make or color :-( "I think it was kind of to the
>right..."
>
>I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.

That actually worked for me, using my Samsung S20FE 5G. I had not used
the feature before, and it's unlikely that I'll use it regularly, but it
got me to the right row and within visual distance to my vehicle.

>It was willing to email coordinates or save them to a text file, but
>that seems needlessly complex, especially in a pseudo-emergency.
>
>I also tried the app that Andy suggested, which may or may not have
>worked. The compass function of my phone is frequently strange both
>before and after 'calibration'. North is frequently west. Or east.
>Even when not near metal and with an open view to the south. It
>pointed in a direction which might have been kind of right and said 13.9
>miles, which I had to measure with google earth (why doesn't google maps
>have that function?)

Google Maps on my phone and on my desktop both have the "Measure
Distance" feature. I use that feature frequently, mostly just out of
curiosity.

>and which was pretty much correct. Clearly much
>more useful when closer to the actual parking place.
>
>When I deleted that waypoint and set one at my current location, it told
>me I was 7809 miles away from where I was. Does it somehow think that
>I'm on the other side of the earth and that the 8,000 mile diameter we
>were taught is only an approximation? I don't want to think about that...

Sounds like your phone has some issues.

On 1/23/23 9:21 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:14:11 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 1/23/23 2:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
>>> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
>>> your car.
>>
>>Walking out of an unfamiliar Costco to find your rental car, except you
>>can't remember its make or color :-( "I think it was kind of to the
>>right..."
>>
>>I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.
>
> That actually worked for me, using my Samsung S20FE 5G. I had not used
> the feature before, and it's unlikely that I'll use it regularly, but it
> got me to the right row and within visual distance to my vehicle.
>
>>It was willing to email coordinates or save them to a text file, but
>>that seems needlessly complex, especially in a pseudo-emergency.
>>
>>I also tried the app that Andy suggested, which may or may not have
>>worked. The compass function of my phone is frequently strange both
>>before and after 'calibration'. North is frequently west. Or east.
>>Even when not near metal and with an open view to the south. It
>>pointed in a direction which might have been kind of right and said 13.9
>>miles, which I had to measure with google earth (why doesn't google maps
>>have that function?)
>
> Google Maps on my phone and on my desktop both have the "Measure
> Distance" feature. I use that feature frequently, mostly just out of
> curiosity.

Who knew there was a right click with useful functions? And why is
there no search box for the Help function? When we ask for help we
hardly ever want to see a list of random subjects...

>>and which was pretty much correct. Clearly much
>>more useful when closer to the actual parking place.
>>
>>When I deleted that waypoint and set one at my current location, it told
>>me I was 7809 miles away from where I was. Does it somehow think that
>>I'm on the other side of the earth and that the 8,000 mile diameter we
>>were taught is only an approximation? I don't want to think about that...
>
> Sounds like your phone has some issues.

Could be, but if it shows coordinates properly would it not know which
way is north? And if it knows which way is north, perhaps it's those
two apps that have issues.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Screw the end users. If they want good software,
let them write it themselves." -- Anon.

On 1/23/23 9:54 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/23/23 9:21 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:14:11 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/23/23 2:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
>>>> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
>>>> your car.
>>>
>>>Walking out of an unfamiliar Costco to find your rental car, except you
>>>can't remember its make or color :-( "I think it was kind of to the
>>>right..."
>>>
>>>I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.
>>
>> That actually worked for me, using my Samsung S20FE 5G. I had not used
>> the feature before, and it's unlikely that I'll use it regularly, but it
>> got me to the right row and within visual distance to my vehicle.
>>
>>>It was willing to email coordinates or save them to a text file, but
>>>that seems needlessly complex, especially in a pseudo-emergency.
>>>
>>>I also tried the app that Andy suggested, which may or may not have
>>>worked. The compass function of my phone is frequently strange both
>>>before and after 'calibration'. North is frequently west. Or east.
>>>Even when not near metal and with an open view to the south. It
>>>pointed in a direction which might have been kind of right and said 13.9
>>>miles, which I had to measure with google earth (why doesn't google maps
>>>have that function?)
>>
>> Google Maps on my phone and on my desktop both have the "Measure
>> Distance" feature. I use that feature frequently, mostly just out of
>> curiosity.
>
> Who knew there was a right click with useful functions? And why is
> there no search box for the Help function? When we ask for help we
> hardly ever want to see a list of random subjects...

OK, if we approach Help from a different direction we get a search box,
but it's of little more use. BUT if you do a regular google search for
google maps measure distance the instructions pop right up.

>>>and which was pretty much correct. Clearly much
>>>more useful when closer to the actual parking place.
>>>
>>>When I deleted that waypoint and set one at my current location, it told
>>>me I was 7809 miles away from where I was. Does it somehow think that
>>>I'm on the other side of the earth and that the 8,000 mile diameter we
>>>were taught is only an approximation? I don't want to think about that...
>>
>> Sounds like your phone has some issues.
>
> Could be, but if it shows coordinates properly would it not know which
> way is north? And if it knows which way is north, perhaps it's those
> two apps that have issues.

--
Cheers, Bev
"The almost universal access to higher education here in the US has
ruined a lot of potentially good manual laborers." -- Bob Hunt

On 1/23/2023 2:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

<snip>

> I've tried several "find your car" apps, and settled on ParKing
> (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=il.talent.parking.premium)
> which uses GPS to record where you parked, and where you are to lead you
> back to your car. Sometimes it shows my car within about 4 meters of
> where it is, but sometimes I'm off by a row, or two, in the parking lot
> using the app to find my car. I have it configured to use a Bluetooth
> disconnect to know when I parked (my BT goes off when the ignition is
> turned off). It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
> your car.

I have a sister-in-law who reported her car as stolen when she could not
find it at the mall. After the mall closed, and most of the other cars
were gone, her husband went over to the mall and of course her car was
there.

It may vary by Android device and by Android version, but my Android
phone records where I parked without me having to do anything when I
park, and I have no extra app installed. It is the same for my iPhone.

I'm about to install GPS trackers in our vehicles using some old Android
phones and a carrier that provides free minimal service. The tracker app
uses only SMS. You send an SMS to the target phone and it returns the
GPS coordinates and shows you the location on a map.

Char Jackson wrote:

>>I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.
>
> That actually worked for me, using my Samsung S20FE 5G. I had not used
> the feature before, and it's unlikely that I'll use it regularly, but it
> got me to the right row and within visual distance to my vehicle.

What I would love to know, and which would be useful for all of us to know,
is whether that Google Maps find-my-parked-car feature works with offline
maps that are previously downloaded when you were online.

Does it?

The Real Bev wrote:

>> Sounds like your phone has some issues.
>
> Could be, but if it shows coordinates properly would it not know which
> way is north? And if it knows which way is north, perhaps it's those
> two apps that have issues.

I would think the GPS input to the app is _different_ than the compass.

In fact, it even says so in the info that it adjusts the compass for how
you hold the phone using your other sensors, and your declination.

The beauty of the gps waypoint finder it that it doesn't need the Internet.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yd90NgQD/gpswaypointfinder01.jpg> Bearing & distance
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjDLPXyF/gpswaypointfinder02.jpg> From GPS right now
<https://i.postimg.cc/6qXn4WgY/gpswaypointfinder03.jpg> Simple use model

This KISS simplicity is what I like about this developer's 40 Android apps.
<http://www.keuwl.com/apps.html>

However, it's apparently a small shop, so sometimes you get this error:
"This app was built for an older version of Android and may not
work properly. Try checking for updates or contact the developer."

For me, the app saves the current location when I press the "New Waypoint"
button and then I press the "From GPS" button to get my current location.
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjDLPXyF/gpswaypointfinder02.jpg> From GPS right now

Then, when I want to find my car, I just open the app since that last
parking spot is the current waypoint that it will be trying to find.

The arrow changes color with distance and both my current GPS location
and the GPS location to the waypoint is clearly marked in big letters.

But, given it's an app that almost nobody but us knows about, I wouldn't be
surprised if it has bugs in it that The Real Bev is running into.

One way to resolve that issue is to ask if anyone else on the team knows of
_another_ free adfree gsffree GPS waypoint finder app which doesn't use the
Internet to save a current waypoint and then point back to it later.

I'm always looking for _better_ apps than any that I may have right now.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.gpswaypoints>

What other waypoint finder do the folks on the Android team recommend?

On 1/24/23 12:27 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Char Jackson wrote:
>
>>>I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.
>>
>> That actually worked for me, using my Samsung S20FE 5G. I had not used
>> the feature before, and it's unlikely that I'll use it regularly, but it
>> got me to the right row and within visual distance to my vehicle.
>
> What I would love to know, and which would be useful for all of us to know,
> is whether that Google Maps find-my-parked-car feature works with offline
> maps that are previously downloaded when you were online.
>
> Does it?

Nope. The curious thing: if it knows where you are, why can't it save
a point conveniently?

--
Cheers, Bev
Rule 18: Always tip your hat before striking a lady.

On 1/23/2023 9:21 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:14:11 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/23/23 2:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
>>> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
>>> your car.
>>
>> Walking out of an unfamiliar Costco to find your rental car, except you
>> can't remember its make or color :-( "I think it was kind of to the
>> right..."
>>
>> I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.
>
> That actually worked for me, using my Samsung S20FE 5G. I had not used
> the feature before, and it's unlikely that I'll use it regularly, but it
> got me to the right row and within visual distance to my vehicle.
>
>> It was willing to email coordinates or save them to a text file, but
>> that seems needlessly complex, especially in a pseudo-emergency.
>>
>> I also tried the app that Andy suggested, which may or may not have
>> worked. The compass function of my phone is frequently strange both
>> before and after 'calibration'. North is frequently west. Or east.
>> Even when not near metal and with an open view to the south. It
>> pointed in a direction which might have been kind of right and said 13.9
>> miles, which I had to measure with google earth (why doesn't google maps
>> have that function?)
>
> Google Maps on my phone and on my desktop both have the "Measure
> Distance" feature. I use that feature frequently, mostly just out of
> curiosity.
>
>> and which was pretty much correct. Clearly much
>> more useful when closer to the actual parking place.
>>
>> When I deleted that waypoint and set one at my current location, it told
>> me I was 7809 miles away from where I was. Does it somehow think that
>> I'm on the other side of the earth and that the 8,000 mile diameter we
>> were taught is only an approximation? I don't want to think about that...
>
> Sounds like your phone has some issues.
>

Google has a special short cut.

On 1/24/2023 7:55 AM, sms wrote:

>
> I'm about to install GPS trackers in our vehicles using some old Android
> phones and a carrier that provides free minimal service. The tracker app
> uses only SMS. You send an SMS to the target phone and it returns the
> GPS coordinates and shows you the location on a map.

What carrier is that?

On 1/28/23 1:51 PM, Bob F wrote:
> On 1/23/2023 9:21 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:14:11 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/23/23 2:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's better than walking out the wrong side of the Mall of
>>>> America to an entirely wrong lot, and then wondering where the hell is
>>>> your car.
>>>
>>> Walking out of an unfamiliar Costco to find your rental car, except you
>>> can't remember its make or color :-( "I think it was kind of to the
>>> right..."
>>>
>>> I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing.
>>
>> That actually worked for me, using my Samsung S20FE 5G. I had not used
>> the feature before, and it's unlikely that I'll use it regularly, but it
>> got me to the right row and within visual distance to my vehicle.
>>
>>> It was willing to email coordinates or save them to a text file, but
>>> that seems needlessly complex, especially in a pseudo-emergency.
>>>
>>> I also tried the app that Andy suggested, which may or may not have
>>> worked. The compass function of my phone is frequently strange both
>>> before and after 'calibration'. North is frequently west. Or east.
>>> Even when not near metal and with an open view to the south. It
>>> pointed in a direction which might have been kind of right and said 13.9
>>> miles, which I had to measure with google earth (why doesn't google maps
>>> have that function?)
>>
>> Google Maps on my phone and on my desktop both have the "Measure
>> Distance" feature. I use that feature frequently, mostly just out of
>> curiosity.
>>
>>> and which was pretty much correct. Clearly much
>>> more useful when closer to the actual parking place.
>>>
>>> When I deleted that waypoint and set one at my current location, it told
>>> me I was 7809 miles away from where I was. Does it somehow think that
>>> I'm on the other side of the earth and that the 8,000 mile diameter we
>>> were taught is only an approximation? I don't want to think about that...
>>
>> Sounds like your phone has some issues.
>
> Google has a special short cut.

I suspected that. The China Syndrome got it just a bit wrong.

I set a waypoint yesterday using the app recommended by Andy, which
actually worked the other day. When I looked at it from home it knew
how far away it was, but flatly refused to do anything about showing the
direction even though I walked back and forth for a block. I wish I'd
also tried the one with the big buttons :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
'Politics' comes from an ancient Greek word meaning
'many blood-sucking leeches.' -- Mark Russell

"Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:tqn6bn$10ob$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>>> Wish they would repeat this analysis on newer iPhones.
>>
>> Even on my Android smartphone, I've had to reset GPS by deleting and
>> re-downloading the A-GPS database.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS
>
> I admit, up front, I don't know a lot about GNSS and A-GPS, where folks
> like nospam and Alan Browne know more than I ever will know about it
> (mostly because, for me, it just works, so I don't need to do anything).
>
> But to your specific point of manually re-loading the A-GPS database, may
> I ask you "why"... or... more specifically... how do you know you need
> to reload it?
>
> What "evidence" or "telltale observation" tells you that you need to
> reload the A-GPS database for a phone you've been using every day on GPS?

There are various parameters that can affect GPS accuracy:

- how often a reading is taken or recorded: some apps which record to GPX
file (or whatever) can be set to read a new point from the GPS device in the
phone at one of several intervals - eg one reading per second, one reading
every 5 seconds, 10 seconds etc (the more often you read a point, the
quicker the battery loses charge); some apps don't record a new point to
file (even if they poll more frequently) if you have moved less than a
configurable distance since the last reading

- A-GPS can make a difference: I tend to reload if a) the phone is taking a
long time to get its first reading after GPS has previously been turned off
and the phone has moved a significant distance since the last reading, b) if
the track is displaced sideways from the road that you are following (note
that some map overlays are not always perfectly correct, so it may be that
the phone is right and the map is wrong!)

- location of phone: in a pocket or bag, or inside a train (or other
mostly-metal vehicle) can give much less accurate readings - maybe no
readings at all on some trains :-(

I use OutdoorActive (the successor to the much better ViewRanger which was
bought up and then killed off) and/or Outdoor Map Navigator, on Android 8
phone, having bought the (UK) Ordnance Survey maps at 1:50,000 and 1:25,000
scale. OMN is good because the maps are all stored on the phone, whereas
OutdoorActive only caches maps close to where the phone is currently, so if
you lose mobile internet you may find that the maps don't download as you
are travelling on a journey.

I've got them configured to take a reading every second, and to take a
reading every foot or metre (I forget which). Viewranger had a useful
"units" setting which used miles and mph for distances and speeds, but used
metres for heights above sea level (since OS maps have contours and spot
heights in metres). A nice bit of mixed-units for the half-and-half people
in the UK ;-)

I've also used a small app called SpeedView speedometer which is mainly a
way of displaying your speed, but it does have the ability to log your
position periodically (seems to be fixed at one reading every two seconds)
and it records your true GPS speed each time, which is less "noisy" than
calculating your speed from (distance moved since last reading) / (time
since last reading), because using the "delta" method any error in location
reading will translate to an error in speed so you get a lot of spikes and
bizarre readings.

My wife has an iPad and its results tend to be more variable: sometimes it
follows roads better than my Android phone, and sometimes it is terrible or
loses GPS altogether (freezes) at critical times like approaching a junction
where it's useful to know "how far till I reach the junction?". She bought a
new iPad when the old one started to run slow and wouldn't allow more than
one web page to be open at once in its browser. Sadly we didn't realise than
Apple are sneaky: unless you pay extra for the version that has mobile phone
connectivity (which we wouldn't need) they don't give you a GPS receiver, so
we're investigating getting an external GPS receiver that connects by
Bluetooth for times when we would use the new iPad (larger screen) for
navigating in the car. I wouldn't have guessed that no 3G receiver would
also mean no GPS receiver: we were not best pleased that a horrendously
expensive device (compared with an Android equivalent) would be lacking a
"must-have" device like GPS.

"The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tqnbd5$3rmkk$1@dont-email.me...
> Walking out of an unfamiliar Costco to find your rental car, except you
> can't remember its make or color :-( "I think it was kind of to the
> right..."
>
> I tried to set a find-my-car point with GPS-only google maps. Nothing. It
> was willing to email coordinates or save them to a text file, but that
> seems needlessly complex, especially in a pseudo-emergency.

If I ever rent a car, the first thing I do is photograph it (showing its
registration plate). When I park in a large car park I make a mental note
(or take a photo) of a location sign (Bay 5B, etc). My own car (Peugeot) has
a useful "find it" device: if you press the "lock" button on the key, the
hazard lights flash a few times. Sadly my wife's Honda doesn't have that
useful feature, so you actually have to unlock it and re-lock it quickly to
trigger the "I'm here" hazard lights.

Am 31.01.23 um 10:48 schrieb NY:
> If I ever rent a car, the first thing I do is photograph it (showing its
> registration plate). When I park in a large car park I make a mental note
> (or take a photo) of a location sign (Bay 5B, etc). My own car (Peugeot) has
> a useful "find it" device: if you press the "lock" button on the key, the
> hazard lights flash a few times. Sadly my wife's Honda doesn't have that
> useful feature, so you actually have to unlock it and re-lock it quickly to
> trigger the "I'm here" hazard lights.

Fool proof but very very old style.
Not really useful in a big city.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

"Joerg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote in message
news:tratro$9tqe$1@solani.org...
> Am 31.01.23 um 10:48 schrieb NY:
>> If I ever rent a car, the first thing I do is photograph it (showing its
>> registration plate). When I park in a large car park I make a mental note
>> (or take a photo) of a location sign (Bay 5B, etc). My own car (Peugeot)
>> has
>> a useful "find it" device: if you press the "lock" button on the key, the
>> hazard lights flash a few times. Sadly my wife's Honda doesn't have that
>> useful feature, so you actually have to unlock it and re-lock it quickly
>> to
>> trigger the "I'm here" hazard lights.
>
> Fool proof but very very old style.
> Not really useful in a big city.

Agreed, but GPS can only get you so close. Once you narrow down the area to
a radius of maybe 20 metres (which may be all you can know without
differential GPS) you still need to know which of those cars is the one you
hired. Not always easy since most cars these days are silver (or "metallic
grey", as I think of it!) and hire cars tend to be the more popular makes
such as Ford Focus or Vauxhall/Opel Astra.

I use a combination of both photo (or car and car park *), and "point of
interest" on a map.

(*) I once forgot which of several car parks I'd parked in - I felt a right
idiot ;-) I had to find the entrance of each and see which looked familiar
from when I'd driven in, and then trawl the levels for my car.

In article <trb13r$3qblf$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid>
wrote:

>
> Agreed, but GPS can only get you so close.

close enough to find a vehicle.

> Once you narrow down the area to
> a radius of maybe 20 metres (which may be all you can know without
> differential GPS)

gps is accurate to ~2m.

Am 31.01.23 um 13:44 schrieb nospam:
> In article <trb13r$3qblf$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Agreed, but GPS can only get you so close.
>
> close enough to find a vehicle.
>
>> Once you narrow down the area to
>> a radius of maybe 20 metres (which may be all you can know without
>> differential GPS)
>
> gps is accurate to ~2m.

AFAIK only for the US military forces. For others 10m. But even that
would be sufficient.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

"Joerg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote in message
news:trb3cj$9h5h$1@solani.org...
> Am 31.01.23 um 13:44 schrieb nospam:
>> In article <trb13r$3qblf$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Agreed, but GPS can only get you so close.
>>
>> close enough to find a vehicle.
>>
>>> Once you narrow down the area to
>>> a radius of maybe 20 metres (which may be all you can know without
>>> differential GPS)
>>
>> gps is accurate to ~2m.
>
> AFAIK only for the US military forces. For others 10m. But even that
> would be sufficient.

I was thinking of the accuracy of GPS indoors, and also thinking of the
problem "how do you know when you've precisely hit the spot?". The photo
and/or reg number needs to take over when you've got within eyeball range.

GPS can be *very* accurate - as used for surveying - but it requires
differential GPS and maybe some relaxation of any random element that may be
added to non-military GPS (do they still denature the signal all for
non-military?)

I've just taken a GPS reading (indoors, by a window, 21 satellites
"visible") and the error quoted by GPS Status app is 6 m. I presume that
means a circle of *radius* 6 m - so +/- 6 m in north-south and east-west
coordinates.

Sometimes the problem is a systematic error: the line follows the twists and
turns of road very accurately, with very little random jitter, but it is
displaced maybe 20-30 metres in one direction or the other. Of course, it
may be that the GPS is correct and the map is not, but the giveaway is if
the line normally follows the road closely and then suddenly the track
shifts.