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computers / comp.mobile.android / Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

SubjectAuthor
* Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?sms
+* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
|`* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Carlos E.R.
| +* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?sms
| |+* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
| ||`* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Carlos E.R.
| || +* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
| || |+- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Carlos E. R.
| || |`* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?AJL
| || | `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?sms
| || |  `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
| || |   `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?AJL
| || |    +* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?sms
| || |    |+* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?AJL
| || |    ||`* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?sms
| || |    || `- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
| || |    |`- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
| || |    `- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
| || `- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?sms
| |`- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Carlos E.R.
| `- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
`* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?VanguardLH
 `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
  `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Carlos E. R.
   `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
    +- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Carlos E. R.
    `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Ken Blake
     `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?nospam
      `* Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?Ken Blake
       `- Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?AJL

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Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

<tr9epb$3f8e4$1@dont-email.me>

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 14:02:17 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: sms - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 22:02 UTC

My sister was recently in Paris with her boyfriend and his iPhone was
stolen. While he disabled the iPhone so it’s not usable by anyone else,
he’s still out the cost of a new iPhone since there was no hope of
tracking it down.

On some Android devices you can require a pass-code in order to turn off
the phone, but this appears to be limited to Samsung devices. There's an
app that purports to do the same thing but it didn't work on my Pixel 7
Pro
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.zatack.smartscreenlockprotector>.

This capability is also available for jailbroken iPhones:
<https://ios.gadgethacks.com/how-to/prevent-thieves-from-turning-off-your-iphone-0198340/>.

Wish that this was a standard Android feature and not manufacturer
dependent.

Also, considering the fact that most users will lock stolen phones, so
the IMEI can't be used on other networks, what's the value to the thief?
I suppose that there are countries where the carriers don't care about
checking for IMEIs of stolen phones.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

<300120231725372590%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 17:25:37 -0500
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 by: nospam - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 22:25 UTC

In article <tr9epb$3f8e4$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> My sister was recently in Paris with her boyfriend and his iPhone was
> stolen. While he disabled the iPhone so it¹s not usable by anyone else,
> he¹s still out the cost of a new iPhone since there was no hope of
> tracking it down.

doesn't he know how to use find my iphone?

> On some Android devices you can require a pass-code in order to turn off
> the phone, but this appears to be limited to Samsung devices.

there is no benefit for such an app.

> Also, considering the fact that most users will lock stolen phones, so
> the IMEI can't be used on other networks,

the carriers lock any imei that's reported stolen.

> what's the value to the thief?

usually parts.

> I suppose that there are countries where the carriers don't care about
> checking for IMEIs of stolen phones.

there are.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 23:54:59 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <300120231725372590%nospam@nospam.invalid>
 by: Carlos E.R. - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 22:54 UTC

On 2023-01-30 23:25, nospam wrote:
> In article <tr9epb$3f8e4$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> My sister was recently in Paris with her boyfriend and his iPhone was
>> stolen. While he disabled the iPhone so it¹s not usable by anyone else,
>> he¹s still out the cost of a new iPhone since there was no hope of
>> tracking it down.
>
> doesn't he know how to use find my iphone?
>
>> On some Android devices you can require a pass-code in order to turn off
>> the phone, but this appears to be limited to Samsung devices.
>
> there is no benefit for such an app.

The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
the phone.

>> Also, considering the fact that most users will lock stolen phones, so
>> the IMEI can't be used on other networks,
>
> the carriers lock any imei that's reported stolen.

Unfortunately, (apparently) the IMEI can be changed.

<https://drfone.wondershare.com/sim-unlock/change-imei-android.html>

>
>> what's the value to the thief?
>
> usually parts.

Here, they were sent to another country.

>
>> I suppose that there are countries where the carriers don't care about
>> checking for IMEIs of stolen phones.
>
> there are.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 15:22:48 -0800
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 by: sms - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 23:22 UTC

On 1/30/2023 2:54 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
> the phone.

That's the issue. The first thing that a thief will do is to turn off
the phone. With some Samsung phones (and perhaps some others) you can't
turn the phone off without a pass-code, and this is even on their
lower-cost phones. Of course the thief could also be carrying a Faraday
signal blocking bag but they are probably not that sophisticated.

<snip>

> Unfortunately, (apparently) the IMEI can be changed.
> <https://drfone.wondershare.com/sim-unlock/change-imei-android.html>

I wonder how hard that is to do on iPhones since they are so
locked-down. I did see
<https://viralhax.com/change-imei-number-on-iphone-without-jailbreak/>
so perhaps it's not that hard to do and that article is less than one
year old. I know that some people change the IMEI on mobile hotspots,
using a donor phone, so the network provider thinks that it's a phone.

But in any case, blocking an IMEI doesn't do much for the person whose
phone was stolen, if they have no way to track it once the phone is off.

My wife did lose her work iPhone once and it was recovered because of
"Find My...." But the person who found it was honest. It's also another
reason to put your contact information onto your lock screen, which is
easy on Android since it's built into the operating system but a little
more complex on iPhone, see
<https://www.lifewire.com/add-contact-info-to-lock-screen-wallpaper-1701950>.

It's good that shutdown protection is available for all jailbroken
iPhones but not a lot of people jailbreak and there's any jailbreak for
iOS 16.x yet.

This would be a good feature for Apple to add as an option to iOS.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

<300120231849123456%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:49:12 -0500
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 by: nospam - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 23:49 UTC

In article <tr9jg8$3fubq$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
> > the phone.
>
> That's the issue. The first thing that a thief will do is to turn off
> the phone.

except that won't make a difference with iphones because they are
findable when off.

yet another ios capability of which you are unaware.

> My wife did lose her work iPhone once and it was recovered because of
> "Find My...." But the person who found it was honest. It's also another
> reason to put your contact information onto your lock screen,

that's a *really* bad idea for all sorts of reasons, namely stalkers.

> which is
> easy on Android since it's built into the operating system but a little
> more complex on iPhone,

even bad ideas are easy to do on an iphone, however, a much better idea
is simply activate lost mode and whatever message you want will appear
in the event it's actually lost, which might be the hotel you're at,
versus your house thousands of miles away.

> It's good that shutdown protection is available for all jailbroken
> iPhones but not a lot of people jailbreak and there's any jailbreak for
> iOS 16.x yet.

except that it doesn't do what you think it does.

all it does it make it easier to gain access to the device, especially
if it's been jailbroken, which means it's *very* easy.

> This would be a good feature for Apple to add as an option to iOS.

no it wouldn't.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

<300120231849153693%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:49:15 -0500
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 by: nospam - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 23:49 UTC

In article <3fulajxvcq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> >> On some Android devices you can require a pass-code in order to turn off
> >> the phone, but this appears to be limited to Samsung devices.
> >
> > there is no benefit for such an app.
>
> The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
> the phone.

that won't work with iphones because they are findable even when off.

another reason is turning off the phone disables biometrics and forces
using passcode, making it more difficult for someone to gain access to
its contents. it's often suggested to turn off the phone prior to an
encounter where that may be a risk.

> Unfortunately, (apparently) the IMEI can be changed.

that's fraud.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: VanguardLH - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 04:44 UTC

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> On some Android devices you can require a pass-code in order to turn
> off the phone, but this appears to be limited to Samsung devices.
> There's an app that purports to do the same thing but it didn't work
> on my Pixel 7 Pro
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.zatack.smartscreenlockprotector>.

"Note: This App works on devices having Android version up-to Oreo(8.1)"

What version of Android is on your Pixel 7 phone?

https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_7-11903.php

That says it comes with Android 13. Likely Google made changes after
Android 8.1 that interferese with this app locking out the shutdown of
the phone as probably one of Google's many "security" changes.

> This capability is also available for jailbroken iPhones:
> <https://ios.gadgethacks.com/how-to/prevent-thieves-from-turning-off-your-iphone-0198340/>.
>
> Wish that this was a standard Android feature and not manufacturer
> dependent.

Up to you if you want to use someone else's code on your phone to root
it (that's what jailbreaking means).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android)

Lots of online articles on searching "android root". Just remember that
once rooted, you can't go back.

> Also, considering the fact that most users will lock stolen phones, so
> the IMEI can't be used on other networks, what's the value to the
> thief? I suppose that there are countries where the carriers don't
> care about checking for IMEIs of stolen phones.

How do you know "most users will lock stolen phones"? That requires the
phone be configured to cooperate with an online service (Samsung,
Google, and some AVs have the feature), but it is NOT the default setup
when they get their new phones. Users are lazy. They'll use the phone
the was it was pre-configured for them.

The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
phone is gone, and go through the process of locking it. To return a
lost phone at a restaurant, I milled through its data, especially
contacts, but lots of users never enter themself as a contact. I found
a contact called Mom, called her, and her daughter just walked through
the front door after getting there to then notice she lost her phone. I
said I would leave it with the manager, and told the manager the owner
was on the way to pick up her phone (so the phone didn't mysteriously
disappear in the manager's keep). I don't know how long it was since
she lost the phone to when she got home to notice it missing, or how
long from when I found it to rummage through its data to when the girl
got home to Mom's, but it was something like half an hour, or more. A
thief could steal a lot of personal data, including cached passwords
from web browsers if the password manager in the web browser doesn't
also have a password, or the user doesn't configure a lockscreen
timeout.

If you dropped your car keys next to your car, went into the grocery
store, wandered the aisles grabbing your groceries, pay the cashier, and
get to where you car used to be, how long was that? A thief would find
the keys, try it on nearby cars (or even fewer if there's a key fob with
the brand emblazoned on it), and your car is long gone by the time you
get back to where you parked it. How long from losing your phone would
you notice it was gone? My phone is not grafted to my ear as I see it
is with lots of other phone users.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 11:22:50 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <300120231849123456%nospam@nospam.invalid>
 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 10:22 UTC

On 2023-01-31 00:49, nospam wrote:
> In article <tr9jg8$3fubq$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
>>> the phone.
>>
>> That's the issue. The first thing that a thief will do is to turn off
>> the phone.
>
> except that won't make a difference with iphones because they are
> findable when off.

How?

>
> yet another ios capability of which you are unaware.
>
>
>
>> My wife did lose her work iPhone once and it was recovered because of
>> "Find My...." But the person who found it was honest. It's also another
>> reason to put your contact information onto your lock screen,
>
> that's a *really* bad idea for all sorts of reasons, namely stalkers.

There is that.

But doctors in case of accidents do look in the phones to find relatives
and emergency contact info.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 10:20 UTC

On 2023-01-31 00:22, sms wrote:

....

> My wife did lose her work iPhone once and it was recovered because of
> "Find My...." But the person who found it was honest. It's also another
> reason to put your contact information onto your lock screen, which is
> easy on Android since it's built into the operating system but a little
> more complex on iPhone, see
> <https://www.lifewire.com/add-contact-info-to-lock-screen-wallpaper-1701950>.

A find my owner button :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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 by: nospam - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 14:16 UTC

In article <yh6fdqr7b08v$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
wrote:

>
> The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
> phone is gone,

only if they know the passcode, which is highly unlikely unless it's
easily guessable, such as 1234.

otherwise, they'll be stuck at the lock screen and the data on the
phone will be inaccessible.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: nospam - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 14:16 UTC

In article <q4rpajxpip.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>> The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
> >>> the phone.
> >>
> >> That's the issue. The first thing that a thief will do is to turn off
> >> the phone.
> >
> > except that won't make a difference with iphones because they are
> > findable when off.
>
> How?

phones (and many other devices) have soft-power which means off isn't
fully off. the cpu, display and radios are off, but other parts have
power, including checking for a press of the power button to boot the
phone.

when an iphone is off, it acts an airtag, which needs very little
power. an actual airtag lasts 1-2 years on a 2032 coin battery.

> >> My wife did lose her work iPhone once and it was recovered because of
> >> "Find My...." But the person who found it was honest. It's also another
> >> reason to put your contact information onto your lock screen,
> >
> > that's a *really* bad idea for all sorts of reasons, namely stalkers.
>
> There is that.
>
> But doctors in case of accidents do look in the phones to find relatives
> and emergency contact info.

emergency contact info is separate than putting it in the lockscreen
itself, and requires the user to take action to see it (emts know what
to do to access it), versus being visible all the time, which as i
said, is a bad idea.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E. R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 15:21:41 +0100
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 14:21 UTC

On 2023-02-01 15:16, nospam wrote:
> In article <q4rpajxpip.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
>>>>> the phone.
>>>>
>>>> That's the issue. The first thing that a thief will do is to turn off
>>>> the phone.
>>>
>>> except that won't make a difference with iphones because they are
>>> findable when off.
>>
>> How?
>
> phones (and many other devices) have soft-power which means off isn't
> fully off. the cpu, display and radios are off, but other parts have
> power, including checking for a press of the power button to boot the
> phone.

Yes, of course.

>
> when an iphone is off, it acts an airtag, which needs very little
> power. an actual airtag lasts 1-2 years on a 2032 coin battery.

Ah, I see.

Ok, but it would not work if the machine is isolated :-D

For an instant I thought you would say police movies are true when
saying they can power on a phone remotely. :-DD

>
>>>> My wife did lose her work iPhone once and it was recovered because of
>>>> "Find My...." But the person who found it was honest. It's also another
>>>> reason to put your contact information onto your lock screen,
>>>
>>> that's a *really* bad idea for all sorts of reasons, namely stalkers.
>>
>> There is that.
>>
>> But doctors in case of accidents do look in the phones to find relatives
>> and emergency contact info.
>
> emergency contact info is separate than putting it in the lockscreen
> itself, and requires the user to take action to see it (emts know what
> to do to access it), versus being visible all the time, which as i
> said, is a bad idea.

Ok.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 14:22 UTC

On 2023-02-01 15:16, nospam wrote:
> In article <yh6fdqr7b08v$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
>> phone is gone,
>
> only if they know the passcode, which is highly unlikely unless it's
> easily guessable, such as 1234.
>
> otherwise, they'll be stuck at the lock screen and the data on the
> phone will be inaccessible.

I know some people that have none.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: nospam - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 14:28 UTC

In article <k3vat0Fo7aaU2@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> >> The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
> >> phone is gone,
> >
> > only if they know the passcode, which is highly unlikely unless it's
> > easily guessable, such as 1234.
> >
> > otherwise, they'll be stuck at the lock screen and the data on the
> > phone will be inaccessible.
>
> I know some people that have none.

that's not common, and very foolish.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 14:44 UTC

On 2023-02-01 15:28, nospam wrote:
> In article <k3vat0Fo7aaU2@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
>>>> phone is gone,
>>>
>>> only if they know the passcode, which is highly unlikely unless it's
>>> easily guessable, such as 1234.
>>>
>>> otherwise, they'll be stuck at the lock screen and the data on the
>>> phone will be inaccessible.
>>
>> I know some people that have none.
>
> that's not common, and very foolish.

Oh, it is very common, you just don't have many non-geek, adverse to
technology, friends :-p

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: AJL - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 15:07 UTC

On 2/1/2023 7:16 AM, nospam wrote:

> emergency contact info is separate than putting it in the lockscreen
> itself, and requires the user to take action to see it (emts know
> what to do to access it),

I think EMT's will likely look in a wallet or purse for ID before
messing with a phone. That would be a last resort...

> versus being visible all the time, which as i said, is a bad idea.

Disagree. I put 'please return' and the wife's cell number on my lock
screen. Best case I forget my phone when out somewhere and the wife
nearby gets a call and I have my phone back within the hour. Worst case
the finder has her phone number which has already been in the wild for
many years.

On our last conversation about this you said somebody would look over my
shoulder and see it. That's unlikely considering the size of the print
on the lock screen and the few seconds it's visible as I punch in my
pin...

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 15:16 UTC

On Wed, 01 Feb 2023 09:28:16 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <k3vat0Fo7aaU2@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R.
><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >> The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
>> >> phone is gone,
>> >
>> > only if they know the passcode, which is highly unlikely unless it's
>> > easily guessable, such as 1234.
>> >
>> > otherwise, they'll be stuck at the lock screen and the data on the
>> > phone will be inaccessible.
>>
>> I know some people that have none.
>
>that's not common, and very foolish.

I have no statistics, but in my experience, it *is* very common.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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 by: nospam - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 15:49 UTC

In article <1i0lthdh0n8v75rt0vrcketh8kiaanafca@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
<Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> >> >> The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
> >> >> phone is gone,
> >> >
> >> > only if they know the passcode, which is highly unlikely unless it's
> >> > easily guessable, such as 1234.
> >> >
> >> > otherwise, they'll be stuck at the lock screen and the data on the
> >> > phone will be inaccessible.
> >>
> >> I know some people that have none.
> >
> >that's not common, and very foolish.
>
>
> I have no statistics, but in my experience, it *is* very common.

in my experience, it's the opposite. everyone i know who has a
smartphone, for both ios and android, has a passcode, along with
biometrics (fingerprint or face), which is usually what's used.

given the amount of personal data on a smartphone and the ability to
cause all sorts of problems, potentially quite serious ones, not having
a passcode is foolish, regardless of commonality.

back in the days of 'dumb' phones (flippers and candybars), it was
common for phones to always be unlocked, but those days are long gone.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2023 09:57:53 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 16:57 UTC

On Wed, 01 Feb 2023 10:49:06 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <1i0lthdh0n8v75rt0vrcketh8kiaanafca@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
><Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >> The thief can still steal your data off the phone before you notice your
>> >> >> phone is gone,
>> >> >
>> >> > only if they know the passcode, which is highly unlikely unless it's
>> >> > easily guessable, such as 1234.
>> >> >
>> >> > otherwise, they'll be stuck at the lock screen and the data on the
>> >> > phone will be inaccessible.
>> >>
>> >> I know some people that have none.
>> >
>> >that's not common, and very foolish.
>>
>>
>> I have no statistics, but in my experience, it *is* very common.
>
>in my experience, it's the opposite. everyone i know who has a
>smartphone, for both ios and android, has a passcode, along with
>biometrics (fingerprint or face), which is usually what's used.

Yes, it was fairly obvious from your previous message that that was
your experience. But the experience of either of us represents a tiny
percentage of smart phone users, so that means making the blanket
statement "it's not common" (or alternatively, "it is common") is an
inappropriate thing to do.

If you had originally said something like "in my experience, that's
not common, and very foolish" I would have had no quarrel with it

..
>given the amount of personal data on a smartphone and the ability to
>cause all sorts of problems, potentially quite serious ones, not having
>a passcode is foolish, regardless of commonality.

Yes, I agree with that, for most people. But not everyone has a lot of
personal data on his smart phone. For example, I have almost none; for
me there's too much risk of my phone being lost or stolen and someone
else who gets it breaking the passcode.

>back in the days of 'dumb' phones (flippers and candybars), it was
>common for phones to always be unlocked, but those days are long gone.

Gone for most people, but not everyone. I know a few who still use
flippers.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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From: noem...@none.com (AJL)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 10:55:28 -0700
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 by: AJL - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 17:55 UTC

On 2/1/2023 9:57 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

> not everyone has a lot of personal data on his smart phone. For
> example, I have almost none; for me there's too much risk of my
> phone being lost or stolen and someone else who gets it breaking the
> passcode.

My whole life is on my phone. If I lost all my other electronic toys I
could continue to live on my phone alone. In fact I find many sensitive
phone apps easier to use than their browser equivalents.

The only sensitive stuff that's available to a perp breaking the main
phone PIN on my phone is Google stuff. And my main PIN is 6 digits
which should hold the perp a few hours until I can change my Google
password after which the Google stuff is no longer available.

My other sensitive apps have their own user name and passwords and so is
still not available to a perp even if he successfully breaks the main PIN...

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From: scharf.s...@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 13:24:31 -0800
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 by: sms - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 21:24 UTC

On 2/1/2023 2:22 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-01-31 00:49, nospam wrote:
>> In article <tr9jg8$3fubq$1@dont-email.me>, sms
>> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The idea is that location can not be turned off and the owner can find
>>>> the phone.
>>>
>>> That's the issue. The first thing that a thief will do is to turn off
>>> the phone.
>>
>> except that won't make a difference with iphones because they are
>> findable when off.
>
> How?

When the iPhone is off, but the battery is not completely dead (still
has some reserve power), it acts like an AirTag so if there's another
Apple device nearby, with Bluetooth on, it will pick up the presence of
the iPhone.

Obviously the phone is not able to send out its GPS coordinates when
it's turned off, so it's not as useful as a feature, but it's better
than nothing, and thieves may not be aware of this feature.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 13:35:36 -0800
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 by: sms - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 21:35 UTC

On 2/1/2023 7:07 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 2/1/2023 7:16 AM, nospam wrote:
>
>> emergency contact info is separate than putting it in the lockscreen
>> itself, and requires the user to take action to see it (emts know
>> what to do to access it),
>
> I think EMT's will likely look in a wallet or purse for ID before
> messing with a phone. That would be a last resort...

An EMT would know where to look, though this assumes that the phone
owner has entered that information (which is unlikely). The issue is
more when you lose your phone somewhere and an honest person finds it
but doesn't know how to contact you.

On Android you can easily put contact information like an e-mail address
or a different phone number, on the lock screen. On iOS this feature has
not yet been implemented.

I cover this in 118a on page 58 of the document:
48 iOS & iPhone Features Which [some] Android Users Wish they Had
210 Android & Android Phone Features Which [some] iOS Users Wish they Had
<tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features> or
<docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>

There's also an article at
<https://www.lifewire.com/add-contact-info-to-lock-screen-wallpaper-1701950>
that explains how to do it. It's possible that Google has a patent on
this since it's something that Apple would obviously implement if they
could.

Shortly after I added my contact information to my iPhone, I was at a
family event and my niece saw my phone and asked how to do it. Suddenly
everyone wanted to do it!

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: nospam - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 22:08 UTC

In article <trelv9$glhv$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > I think EMT's will likely look in a wallet or purse for ID before
> > messing with a phone. That would be a last resort...
>
> An EMT would know where to look, though this assumes that the phone
> owner has entered that information (which is unlikely).

doing that is more likely than someone putting their contact
information on the lock screen.

> The issue is
> more when you lose your phone somewhere and an honest person finds it
> but doesn't know how to contact you.

there is no issue.

simply activate lost mode and have it display any message you want,
which is much better than contact information that is not valid, such
as when you're at a hotel instead of at home, or for corporate issued
phones, the employer's info and not that of the employee.

> On Android you can easily put contact information like an e-mail address
> or a different phone number, on the lock screen. On iOS this feature has
> not yet been implemented.

that's because a much better and more flexible solution exists, for
both platforms.

> It's possible that Google has a patent on
> this

there is no patent on putting contact information in the lock screen,
nor could there be.

any time you try to claim a missing feature, you blindly blame it on
patents.

> since it's something that Apple would obviously implement if they
> could.

as noted above, what they have is a much better solution.

> Shortly after I added my contact information to my iPhone, I was at a
> family event and my niece saw my phone and asked how to do it. Suddenly
> everyone wanted to do it!

assuming that story is even remotely true, you're confirming just how
easy it is to stalk someone.

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 16:51:53 -0700
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 by: AJL - Wed, 1 Feb 2023 23:51 UTC

On 2/1/2023 3:08 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <trelv9$glhv$2@dont-email.me>, sms

>> The issue is more when you lose your phone somewhere and an honest
>> person finds it but doesn't know how to contact you.

> there is no issue. simply activate lost mode and have it display any
> message you want,

Easier and quicker (at least for me) just to leave a contact number on
the lock screen. As I said earlier that might get my phone back in
minutes. Putting stuff remotely on the screen later eliminates that
possibility...

> which is much better than contact information that is not valid,
> such as when you're at a hotel instead of at home, or for corporate
> issued phones, the employer's info and not that of the employee.

And of course I can still activate 'Find My Device' when I get home to
find the phone's location and/or put any updated info on the lockscreen.
But that would be for a good guy finder. For a stolen phone the nuclear
option (remote erasure) might be a better choice (if still online)...

Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?

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Subject: Re: Require Passcode to Turn off Phone?
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 by: sms - Thu, 2 Feb 2023 01:24 UTC

On 2/1/2023 3:51 PM, AJL wrote:

<snip>

> Easier and quicker (at least for me) just to leave a contact number on
> the lock screen. As I said earlier that might get my phone back in
> minutes. Putting stuff remotely on the screen later eliminates that
> possibility...

Yes, "Lost Mode" is pretty ridiculous. You have to find another device
to activate Lost Mode and hope that you remember your AppleID and password.

It's a far better idea to just have some contact information on the lock
screen. Put an e-mail address there, or a Google Voice phone number, and
you're all set. It would be nice if Apple followed Google's lead and
just made this feature part of the operating system so you don't have to
go through the rigamarole described in
<https://www.lifewire.com/add-contact-info-to-lock-screen-wallpaper-1701950>.

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