So I bought a Logi M650 (Logitech) mouse.
Same laptop, orig mouse still working.
Got additional features with new Logi mouse.

BUT ... this Logi mouse will not even show up in the add bluetooth place.
I push the Logi bluetooth connect button and the light flashes but the
mouse does not appear in the laptop.

So I removed the orig mouse and tried again. No luck. Logi mouse does
not show up. I then easily installed the orig mouse. No problem.

This Logi mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver.
I want Bluetooth !

Any tricks to get it to work with bluetooth ?

I tried Logitech tech support but I have not been able to get through to
a live person.
The chat bot is useless !

Aoli wrote:

> So I bought a Logi M650 (Logitech) mouse.
> Same laptop, orig mouse still working.
> Got additional features with new Logi mouse.
>
> BUT ... this Logi mouse will not even show up in the add bluetooth place.
> I push the Logi bluetooth connect button and the light flashes but the
> mouse does not appear in the laptop.
>
> So I removed the orig mouse and tried again. No luck. Logi mouse does
> not show up. I then easily installed the orig mouse. No problem.
>
> This Logi mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver.
> I want Bluetooth !
>
> Any tricks to get it to work with bluetooth ?
>
> I tried Logitech tech support but I have not been able to get through to
> a live person.
> The chat bot is useless !

With details, like which brand and model of laptop, and which model of
Logitech mouse, no one but you knows what you are trying to get working
together. There are different versions of Bluetooth, so what the laptop
supports and what the Logitech mouse supports might not be compatible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Specifications_and_features

When you plug in the Logitech Bluetooth transceiver, do you hear the
boop-beep tone telling you the OS recognized a new USB device?

Did you install Logitech's driver for whatever model you are trying to
use?

Rather than hunt around in Device Manager looking at Bluetooth devices,
use Nirsoft's USB Device Viewer to see if the Logitech USB transceiver
is getting recognized.

Sounds obvious, but did you put batteries in the wireless mouse? Did
you try new batteries (not the ones that came with the mouse, if any)?

Instead of trying to use their online chat (which presumably is what you
meant by hitting a bot before it gets you to a real person), did you try
calling them?

https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000621393

That lists a phone number, too, for support.

On 3/15/2022 1:56 AM, Aoli wrote:
> So I bought a Logi M650 (Logitech) mouse.
> Same laptop, orig mouse still working.
> Got additional features with new Logi mouse.
>
> BUT ... this Logi mouse will not even show up in the add bluetooth place.
> I push the Logi bluetooth connect button and the light flashes but the mouse does not appear in the laptop.
>
> So I removed the orig mouse and tried again.  No luck.  Logi mouse does not show up.   I then easily installed the orig mouse.  No problem.
>
> This Logi mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver.
> I want Bluetooth !
>
> Any tricks to get it to work with bluetooth ?
>
> I tried Logitech tech support but I have not been able to get through to a live person.
> The chat bot is useless !

This is the Bolt Receiver.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/1/22651973/logitech-logi-bolt-usb-dongle-bluetooth-security-le-keyboard-mouse-accessories

"These accessories can securely connect to computers and mobile devices
via Bluetooth Low Energy — no dongle necessary.

Though the Bolt USB dongle is also based on Bluetooth, it will enable a
far more secure tether (security mode 1, level 4). Opting for Bluetooth
should make the Bolt far less prone to hacking than
Logitech’s Unifying 2.4GHz receiver, which was vulnerable to the “MouseJack” hack."

The article doesn't have the details I need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Low_Energy

"which was integrated into Bluetooth 4.0 in December 2009 as Bluetooth Low Energy"

So the Bolt Receiver is not the Unifying Receiver, but it is hard
to say without the technical details, whether it shows up as a HID
in Device Manager, or shows up as a Bluetooth master. My pure Bluetooth
plugin adapter shows up in the "Bluetooth" section of Device Manager.
Whereas the Bolt might show up somewhere else in the tree.

Paul

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 at 02:04:41, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
>Aoli wrote:
>
>> So I bought a Logi M650 (Logitech) mouse.
>> Same laptop, orig mouse still working.
>> Got additional features with new Logi mouse.
>>
>> BUT ... this Logi mouse will not even show up in the add bluetooth place.
>> I push the Logi bluetooth connect button and the light flashes but the
>> mouse does not appear in the laptop.
>>
>> So I removed the orig mouse and tried again. No luck. Logi mouse does
>> not show up. I then easily installed the orig mouse. No problem.
>>
>> This Logi mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver.
>> I want Bluetooth !
>>
>> Any tricks to get it to work with bluetooth ?
>>
>> I tried Logitech tech support but I have not been able to get through to
>> a live person.
>> The chat bot is useless !
>
>With details, like which brand and model of laptop, and which model of
>Logitech mouse, no one but you knows what you are trying to get working
>together. There are different versions of Bluetooth, so what the laptop
>supports and what the Logitech mouse supports might not be compatible.

I know it's your reflex action to ask "what", and in this case you're
half right (he hasn't said what laptop) - but he did say "a Logi M650
(Logitech) mouse", which sounds to me enough description to identify the
mouse.
[]
>When you plug in the Logitech Bluetooth transceiver, do you hear the
>boop-beep tone telling you the OS recognized a new USB device?

He says "mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver." I
presume from that that he means, when working in Bluetooth, it connects
direct to the laptop's Bluetooth, with no need for a dongle. (Or is
supposed to.)
>
>Did you install Logitech's driver for whatever model you are trying to
>use?

Good question.
>
>Rather than hunt around in Device Manager looking at Bluetooth devices,
>use Nirsoft's USB Device Viewer to see if the Logitech USB transceiver
>is getting recognized.

If he's using one.
>
>Sounds obvious, but did you put batteries in the wireless mouse? Did
>you try new batteries (not the ones that came with the mouse, if any)?

He does say the light flashes when he presses the "bluetooth connect
button", though that's still a good suggestion.
>
>Instead of trying to use their online chat (which presumably is what you
>meant by hitting a bot before it gets you to a real person), did you try
>calling them?
>
>https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000621393
>
>That lists a phone number, too, for support.

Also a good suggestion.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If even one person" arguments allow the perfect to become the enemy of the
good, and thus they tend to cause more harm than good.
- Jimmy Akins quoted by Scott Adams, 2015-5-5

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> I know it's your reflex action to ask "what", and in this case you're
> half right (he hasn't said what laptop) - but he did say "a Logi M650
> (Logitech) mouse", which sounds to me enough description to identify the
> mouse.

You're right. 2 AM, and no coffee.

Logitech used to be far more organized on their site for finding
drivers. The mouse has more than 3 buttons, so it must have ancilliary
software to install. For that device, the downloads are at:

https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/4414473813015-Download-Signature-M650

Windows 7 isn't listed as supported. Maybe the Windows 10 software will
work, but maybe not. The specs say "Windows 7/8/10 or later" yet a
download for Windows 7 isn't listed. The specs, however, also say
"Support only on: Windows 10 or later". I certainly wouldn't want to be
stuck with software that has "beta" in its title.

Without the ancilliary software, the mouse should still get recognized
as a USB HID (Human Interface Device) mouse having 3 buttons and scroll
function. If their Windows 10 software won't work under Windows 7, the
OP is left with a 3-button mouse, and loses the extra buttons on the
side.

I didn't find their online manual to see how to pair the wireless mouse
with the USB transceiver. In the specs, it says:

Wireless protocol
Bluetooth Low Energy and Logi Bolt

Well, the OP will have to determine if his laptop supports BT LE. I
didn't bother to investigate what the hell is the proprietary Logi Bolt
BT protocol.

> He says "mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver."

My reading of that statement is what the Logitech mouse is supposed to
support, not that it is working in his setup. If "works" meant the BT
setup was working, the mouse would be listed in Device Manager under
"Mice and other pointing device". I don't know what is the "bluetooth
place". Since the mouse isn't showing up there, is it even showing up
in Device Manager?

Maybe he is trying to use the BT mouse with his laptop's BT radio, but
his laptop is too old to support BT LE, and Logitech's software would be
needed to support whatever is Logi Bolt. He really didn't mention if he
tried directly connecting the BT mouse to the BT radio in his laptop, if
he tried using the Logitech USB transceiver to pair with the BT mouse,
or he tried both.

As you pointed out to correct me, the OP mentioned the mouse brand and
model. We still don't know what brand and model of laptop the OP is
using to go hunting for specs to see if the laptop and mouse share the
same BT protocols to be compatible with each other.

VanguardLH wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> I know it's your reflex action to ask "what", and in this case you're
>> half right (he hasn't said what laptop) - but he did say "a Logi M650
>> (Logitech) mouse", which sounds to me enough description to identify the
>> mouse.
>
> You're right. 2 AM, and no coffee.
>
> Logitech used to be far more organized on their site for finding
> drivers. The mouse has more than 3 buttons, so it must have ancilliary
> software to install. For that device, the downloads are at:
>
> https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/4414473813015-Download-Signature-M650
>
> Windows 7 isn't listed as supported. Maybe the Windows 10 software will
> work, but maybe not. The specs say "Windows 7/8/10 or later" yet a
> download for Windows 7 isn't listed. The specs, however, also say
> "Support only on: Windows 10 or later". I certainly wouldn't want to be
> stuck with software that has "beta" in its title.
>
> Without the ancilliary software, the mouse should still get recognized
> as a USB HID (Human Interface Device) mouse having 3 buttons and scroll
> function. If their Windows 10 software won't work under Windows 7, the
> OP is left with a 3-button mouse, and loses the extra buttons on the
> side.
>
> I didn't find their online manual to see how to pair the wireless mouse
> with the USB transceiver. In the specs, it says:
>
> Wireless protocol
> Bluetooth Low Energy and Logi Bolt
>
> Well, the OP will have to determine if his laptop supports BT LE. I
> didn't bother to investigate what the hell is the proprietary Logi Bolt
> BT protocol.
>
>> He says "mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver."
>
> My reading of that statement is what the Logitech mouse is supposed to
> support, not that it is working in his setup. If "works" meant the BT
> setup was working, the mouse would be listed in Device Manager under
> "Mice and other pointing device". I don't know what is the "bluetooth
> place". Since the mouse isn't showing up there, is it even showing up
> in Device Manager?
>
> Maybe he is trying to use the BT mouse with his laptop's BT radio, but
> his laptop is too old to support BT LE, and Logitech's software would be
> needed to support whatever is Logi Bolt. He really didn't mention if he
> tried directly connecting the BT mouse to the BT radio in his laptop, if
> he tried using the Logitech USB transceiver to pair with the BT mouse,
> or he tried both.
>
> As you pointed out to correct me, the OP mentioned the mouse brand and
> model. We still don't know what brand and model of laptop the OP is
> using to go hunting for specs to see if the laptop and mouse share the
> same BT protocols to be compatible with each other.

In a previous thread the op mentioned that his comp is a Lenovo T430s.
The 430s came with BT 4.0.

Paul in Houston TX wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>>> I know it's your reflex action to ask "what", and in this case you're
>>> half right (he hasn't said what laptop) - but he did say "a Logi M650
>>> (Logitech) mouse", which sounds to me enough description to identify the
>>> mouse.
>>
>> You're right. 2 AM, and no coffee.
>>
>> Logitech used to be far more organized on their site for finding
>> drivers. The mouse has more than 3 buttons, so it must have ancilliary
>> software to install. For that device, the downloads are at:
>>
>> https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/4414473813015-Download-Signature-M650
>>
>> Windows 7 isn't listed as supported. Maybe the Windows 10 software will
>> work, but maybe not. The specs say "Windows 7/8/10 or later" yet a
>> download for Windows 7 isn't listed. The specs, however, also say
>> "Support only on: Windows 10 or later". I certainly wouldn't want to be
>> stuck with software that has "beta" in its title.
>>
>> Without the ancilliary software, the mouse should still get recognized
>> as a USB HID (Human Interface Device) mouse having 3 buttons and scroll
>> function. If their Windows 10 software won't work under Windows 7, the
>> OP is left with a 3-button mouse, and loses the extra buttons on the
>> side.
>>
>> I didn't find their online manual to see how to pair the wireless mouse
>> with the USB transceiver. In the specs, it says:
>>
>> Wireless protocol
>> Bluetooth Low Energy and Logi Bolt
>>
>> Well, the OP will have to determine if his laptop supports BT LE. I
>> didn't bother to investigate what the hell is the proprietary Logi Bolt
>> BT protocol.
>>
>>> He says "mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver."
>>
>> My reading of that statement is what the Logitech mouse is supposed to
>> support, not that it is working in his setup. If "works" meant the BT
>> setup was working, the mouse would be listed in Device Manager under
>> "Mice and other pointing device". I don't know what is the "bluetooth
>> place". Since the mouse isn't showing up there, is it even showing up
>> in Device Manager?
>>
>> Maybe he is trying to use the BT mouse with his laptop's BT radio, but
>> his laptop is too old to support BT LE, and Logitech's software would be
>> needed to support whatever is Logi Bolt. He really didn't mention if he
>> tried directly connecting the BT mouse to the BT radio in his laptop, if
>> he tried using the Logitech USB transceiver to pair with the BT mouse,
>> or he tried both.
>>
>> As you pointed out to correct me, the OP mentioned the mouse brand and
>> model. We still don't know what brand and model of laptop the OP is
>> using to go hunting for specs to see if the laptop and mouse share the
>> same BT protocols to be compatible with each other.
>
> In a previous thread the op mentioned that his comp is a Lenovo T430s.
> The 430s came with BT 4.0.

The OP mentions his other BT mouse works okay, so BT is enabled on his
laptop. The specs for the Lenovo T430 says it supports BT 4.0. The
specs for the mouse says it needs BT LE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Low_Energy
"Mobile operating systems including iOS, Android, Windows Phone and
BlackBerry, as well as macOS, Linux, Windows 8, Windows 10 and Windows
11, natively support Bluetooth Low Energy."

Windows 7 is not listed as having innate BT LE support, so the OP needs
to install the driver for the mouse in his Windows 7 setup. However,
Logitech doesn't provide a Windows 7 driver for that BT LE mouse.
Windows 7 doesn't have native BT LE support, and probably why Logitech
puts the bar as Windows 10 minimum.

The OP's post doesn't mention the OP tried using the Logitech Bolt USB
transceiver dongle, or installing the Logi Bolt software. Since the
mouse he is trying to use is a Logi Bolt device, he really should
install that software and test again using the Logi Bolt USB dongle.

According to:
https://support.logi.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4414486887319-Getting-Started-Signature-M650L
"You can pair your mouse to your device using the Bluetooth® Low Energy
connection or our new Logi Bolt receiver."

I don't see the specs for that laptop say it supports BT LE, so he
cannot do a direct connect using BT between wireless mouse and his
laptop. He needs to use the Logi Bolt USB dongle, and he didn't mention
trying that. The "In the Box" list at the mouse product page only says
"USB Receiver". Well, which one? I think the Logi Bolt dongle costs
$15 from Logitech, so maybe they don't include it in the packaging for
the M650 mouse.

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/business/work-setups/logi-bolt-wireless-technology.html
"Our Logi Bolt wireless devices are Bluetooth Low Energy 5.0 or higher."

The OP moved from Windows 7 (not supported by the laptop maker) which
doesn't included BT LE support, so software from Logitech is needed.
His laptop doesn't have BT LE support (no hardware for it), so he'll
need the Logi Bolt USB dongle (if it didn't come with the mouse, he'll
have to spend another $20 to get it, $15 from Logitech's site).

His old laptop's hardware won't support BT LE. His Windows 7 didn't
come bundled with BT LE support. My guess is the Logi Bolt USB dongle,
and the software for it, patches up old incompatible setups. *BUT*

BT LE is independent of classic BT, and has no compatibility. Classic
Bluetooth (basic rate/enhanced data rate, or BR/EDR) and LE can coexist,
but they aren't the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Low_Energy
"Bluetooth Low Energy is distinct from the previous (often called
"classic") Bluetooth Basic Rate/Enhanced Data Rate (BR/EDR) protocol,
but the two protocols can both be supported by one device: the Bluetooth
4.0 specification permits devices to implement either or both of the LE
and BR/EDR systems."

To further illustrate that classic Bluetooth and Bluetooth Low Energy
are different protocols, see:

https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/01/logitech_bolt_devices_support_secure/
"Bolt devices have two modes. They can connect using standard Bluetooth
LE (Low Energy) to PCs and mobile devices, or users can plug a Bolt
receiver into a USB socket."

His old laptop and old OS don't have BT LE support, so no direct BT LE
connection from mouse to computer. Also:

"Logitech has introduced a new range of business peripherals supporting
Bolt, a secure Bluetooth Low Energy protocol - but they will not connect
to the existing "Unifying Receiver"."

The mouse needed BT LE. It cannot connect to non-LE unifying USB
dongles or to computers that only support classic BT. The OP has
outpaced the new hardware from his old setup.

Alas, with the specs for his laptop saying just "Bluetooth 4.0", no way
to know if the hardware will support the BT LE protocol.
Windows 10 added BT LE support. The OP doesn't have that. Even if he
installed Windows 10, his laptop doesn't have the hardware for BT LE.
Possibly adapting the old OS and old hardware using the Logi Bolt and
its software might make new hardware (Bolt + software) work with the old
OS and old hardware.

To check if your Windows version has BT LE support (in the OS which
should detect if your hardware also supports BT LE):

- Make sure Bluetooth is enabled.
- Run the Device Manager (devmgmt.msc).
- Go into the Bluetooth category in the tree list on the left.
- Look for a driver named "Microsoft Bluetooth LE Enumerator".
important _____^^

If not listed, your hardware+OS setup does not support BT LE. I'm just
guessing the Logi Bolt USB dongle might add BT LE to the old setup.
Considering the cost of the Logi Bolt USB dongle, I'd see if the M650
mouse could be returned for a refund or exchange, and get a Bluetooth
mouse that doesn't mention Bluetooth Low Engery; i.e., a wireless mouse
designed for pre-LE computers using classic BT.

Some info here on the Logi Bolt:
https://www.logitech.com/content/dam/logitech/en/business/pdf/logi-bolt-ebook.pdf

The software/driver for the Logi Bolt can be downloaded from:
https://download01.logi.com/web/ftp/pub/techsupport/options/Options_8.54.161.exe
Last update: 2021-06-14
(lists support starting at Windows 7, and higher)

That mouse doesn't really seem a device the OP should target for his
personal use.

VanguardLH wrote:
> Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know it's your reflex action to ask "what", and in this case you're
>>>> half right (he hasn't said what laptop) - but he did say "a Logi M650
>>>> (Logitech) mouse", which sounds to me enough description to identify the
>>>> mouse.
>>>
>>> You're right. 2 AM, and no coffee.
>>>
>>> Logitech used to be far more organized on their site for finding
>>> drivers. The mouse has more than 3 buttons, so it must have ancilliary
>>> software to install. For that device, the downloads are at:
>>>
>>> https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/4414473813015-Download-Signature-M650
>>>
>>> Windows 7 isn't listed as supported. Maybe the Windows 10 software will
>>> work, but maybe not. The specs say "Windows 7/8/10 or later" yet a
>>> download for Windows 7 isn't listed. The specs, however, also say
>>> "Support only on: Windows 10 or later". I certainly wouldn't want to be
>>> stuck with software that has "beta" in its title.
>>>
>>> Without the ancilliary software, the mouse should still get recognized
>>> as a USB HID (Human Interface Device) mouse having 3 buttons and scroll
>>> function. If their Windows 10 software won't work under Windows 7, the
>>> OP is left with a 3-button mouse, and loses the extra buttons on the
>>> side.
>>>
>>> I didn't find their online manual to see how to pair the wireless mouse
>>> with the USB transceiver. In the specs, it says:
>>>
>>> Wireless protocol
>>> Bluetooth Low Energy and Logi Bolt
>>>
>>> Well, the OP will have to determine if his laptop supports BT LE. I
>>> didn't bother to investigate what the hell is the proprietary Logi Bolt
>>> BT protocol.
>>>
>>>> He says "mouse works with both Bluetooth and also a USB receiver."
>>>
>>> My reading of that statement is what the Logitech mouse is supposed to
>>> support, not that it is working in his setup. If "works" meant the BT
>>> setup was working, the mouse would be listed in Device Manager under
>>> "Mice and other pointing device". I don't know what is the "bluetooth
>>> place". Since the mouse isn't showing up there, is it even showing up
>>> in Device Manager?
>>>
>>> Maybe he is trying to use the BT mouse with his laptop's BT radio, but
>>> his laptop is too old to support BT LE, and Logitech's software would be
>>> needed to support whatever is Logi Bolt. He really didn't mention if he
>>> tried directly connecting the BT mouse to the BT radio in his laptop, if
>>> he tried using the Logitech USB transceiver to pair with the BT mouse,
>>> or he tried both.
>>>
>>> As you pointed out to correct me, the OP mentioned the mouse brand and
>>> model. We still don't know what brand and model of laptop the OP is
>>> using to go hunting for specs to see if the laptop and mouse share the
>>> same BT protocols to be compatible with each other.
>>
>> In a previous thread the op mentioned that his comp is a Lenovo T430s.
>> The 430s came with BT 4.0.
>
> The OP mentions his other BT mouse works okay, so BT is enabled on his
> laptop. The specs for the Lenovo T430 says it supports BT 4.0. The
> specs for the mouse says it needs BT LE.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Low_Energy
> "Mobile operating systems including iOS, Android, Windows Phone and
> BlackBerry, as well as macOS, Linux, Windows 8, Windows 10 and Windows
> 11, natively support Bluetooth Low Energy."
>
> Windows 7 is not listed as having innate BT LE support, so the OP needs
> to install the driver for the mouse in his Windows 7 setup. However,
> Logitech doesn't provide a Windows 7 driver for that BT LE mouse.
> Windows 7 doesn't have native BT LE support, and probably why Logitech
> puts the bar as Windows 10 minimum.
>
> The OP's post doesn't mention the OP tried using the Logitech Bolt USB
> transceiver dongle, or installing the Logi Bolt software. Since the
> mouse he is trying to use is a Logi Bolt device, he really should
> install that software and test again using the Logi Bolt USB dongle.
>
> According to:
> https://support.logi.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4414486887319-Getting-Started-Signature-M650L
> "You can pair your mouse to your device using the Bluetooth® Low Energy
> connection or our new Logi Bolt receiver."
>
> I don't see the specs for that laptop say it supports BT LE, so he
> cannot do a direct connect using BT between wireless mouse and his
> laptop. He needs to use the Logi Bolt USB dongle, and he didn't mention
> trying that. The "In the Box" list at the mouse product page only says
> "USB Receiver". Well, which one? I think the Logi Bolt dongle costs
> $15 from Logitech, so maybe they don't include it in the packaging for
> the M650 mouse.
>
> https://www.logitech.com/en-us/business/work-setups/logi-bolt-wireless-technology.html
> "Our Logi Bolt wireless devices are Bluetooth Low Energy 5.0 or higher."
>
> The OP moved from Windows 7 (not supported by the laptop maker) which
> doesn't included BT LE support, so software from Logitech is needed.
> His laptop doesn't have BT LE support (no hardware for it), so he'll
> need the Logi Bolt USB dongle (if it didn't come with the mouse, he'll
> have to spend another $20 to get it, $15 from Logitech's site).
>
> His old laptop's hardware won't support BT LE. His Windows 7 didn't
> come bundled with BT LE support. My guess is the Logi Bolt USB dongle,
> and the software for it, patches up old incompatible setups. *BUT*
>
> BT LE is independent of classic BT, and has no compatibility. Classic
> Bluetooth (basic rate/enhanced data rate, or BR/EDR) and LE can coexist,
> but they aren't the same.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Low_Energy
> "Bluetooth Low Energy is distinct from the previous (often called
> "classic") Bluetooth Basic Rate/Enhanced Data Rate (BR/EDR) protocol,
> but the two protocols can both be supported by one device: the Bluetooth
> 4.0 specification permits devices to implement either or both of the LE
> and BR/EDR systems."
>
> To further illustrate that classic Bluetooth and Bluetooth Low Energy
> are different protocols, see:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/01/logitech_bolt_devices_support_secure/
> "Bolt devices have two modes. They can connect using standard Bluetooth
> LE (Low Energy) to PCs and mobile devices, or users can plug a Bolt
> receiver into a USB socket."
>
> His old laptop and old OS don't have BT LE support, so no direct BT LE
> connection from mouse to computer. Also:
>
> "Logitech has introduced a new range of business peripherals supporting
> Bolt, a secure Bluetooth Low Energy protocol - but they will not connect
> to the existing "Unifying Receiver"."
>
> The mouse needed BT LE. It cannot connect to non-LE unifying USB
> dongles or to computers that only support classic BT. The OP has
> outpaced the new hardware from his old setup.
>
> Alas, with the specs for his laptop saying just "Bluetooth 4.0", no way
> to know if the hardware will support the BT LE protocol.
> Windows 10 added BT LE support. The OP doesn't have that. Even if he
> installed Windows 10, his laptop doesn't have the hardware for BT LE.
> Possibly adapting the old OS and old hardware using the Logi Bolt and
> its software might make new hardware (Bolt + software) work with the old
> OS and old hardware.
>
> To check if your Windows version has BT LE support (in the OS which
> should detect if your hardware also supports BT LE):
>
> - Make sure Bluetooth is enabled.
> - Run the Device Manager (devmgmt.msc).
> - Go into the Bluetooth category in the tree list on the left.
> - Look for a driver named "Microsoft Bluetooth LE Enumerator".
> important _____^^
>
> If not listed, your hardware+OS setup does not support BT LE. I'm just
> guessing the Logi Bolt USB dongle might add BT LE to the old setup.
> Considering the cost of the Logi Bolt USB dongle, I'd see if the M650
> mouse could be returned for a refund or exchange, and get a Bluetooth
> mouse that doesn't mention Bluetooth Low Engery; i.e., a wireless mouse
> designed for pre-LE computers using classic BT.
>
> Some info here on the Logi Bolt:
> https://www.logitech.com/content/dam/logitech/en/business/pdf/logi-bolt-ebook.pdf
>
> The software/driver for the Logi Bolt can be downloaded from:
> https://download01.logi.com/web/ftp/pub/techsupport/options/Options_8.54.161.exe
> Last update: 2021-06-14
> (lists support starting at Windows 7, and higher)
>
> That mouse doesn't really seem a device the OP should target for his
> personal use.

Oh what a tangled web.

The laptop is a "new" refurbished Lenovo T430S Win 7 Pro laptop.
Win 7 Pro Came preinstalled and I immediately Macrium Reflect Imaged it.
No issues that I know of. Even the media port had the adapter for a SD
card and I am using a 256G Endurance SD for storage.

The M650 mouse has the USB dongle plug inside it.
So I did pop it out and try the USB interface and it works correctly.
No additional driver for the basics.

Yes, I was fooled by the description saying it is Win 7 compatible.
A big lie apparently.

I really want to use bluetooth so as not to have to have a USB3 hub to
carry around and mess my working area when traveling. I have other must
use USB devices using the available ports. Also the USB2 back port on
the laptop seems not to work. The left side USB3 port does work.

The orig bluetooth mouse I have been using with the laptop for several
days, many hours, without problems.

However, today while mousing around (working), a Bluetooth logo popped
up on the screen and the mouse shuttered. Then again the logo popped up
and the mouse quit. This is supposed to be a two year battery mouse.

I went into the laptop devices and my mouse icon was gone. I tried to
reinstall it but now this mouse will not show up at all during device
add. Even the sys tray bluetooth icon is gone. What is happening ?

Drats !

So for the immediate moment I am using the M650 via the USB dongle.
Must be a USB3 dongle ? what is the dongle difference or is it a driver
issue ? I should test the USB back port I guess.

I plan to return this mouse to Amazon as soon as I can. False
advertising for the Win 7 compatibility will get me the refund.

Glad I have some smart fellow to turn to here.
Anything additional will be most welcome.

On 3/18/2022 1:04 PM, Aoli wrote:
> Oh what a tangled web.
>
> The laptop is a "new" refurbished Lenovo T430S Win 7 Pro laptop.
> Win 7 Pro Came preinstalled and I immediately Macrium Reflect Imaged it.
> No issues that I know of.  Even the media port had the adapter for a SD card and I am using a 256G Endurance SD for storage.
>
> The M650 mouse has the USB dongle plug inside it.
> So I did pop it out and try the USB interface and it works correctly.
> No additional driver for the basics.
>
> Yes, I was fooled by the description saying it is Win 7 compatible.
> A big lie apparently.
>
> I really want to use bluetooth so as not to have to have a USB3 hub to carry around and mess my working area when traveling.  I have other must use USB devices using the available ports.  Also the USB2 back port on the laptop seems not to work.  The left side USB3 port does work.
>
> The orig bluetooth mouse I have been using with the laptop for several days, many hours, without problems.
>
> However, today while mousing around (working), a Bluetooth logo popped up on the screen and the mouse shuttered.  Then again the logo popped up and the mouse quit.  This is supposed to be a two year battery mouse.
>
> I went into the laptop devices and my mouse icon was gone.  I tried to reinstall it but now this mouse will not show up at all during device add.  Even the sys tray bluetooth icon is gone.  What is happening ?
>
> Drats !
>
> So for the immediate moment I am using the M650 via the USB dongle.
> Must be a USB3 dongle ?  what is the dongle difference or is it a driver issue ?  I should test the USB back port I guess.
>
>
> I plan to return this mouse to Amazon as soon as I can.  False advertising for the Win 7 compatibility will get me the refund.
>
> Glad I have some smart fellow to turn to here.
> Anything additional will be most welcome.

Yours might be QM77.

This article includes Z77 (desktop chipset, likely a PCH or Southbridge
basically). PCH chips have USB ports on them (except in cases where
an "add-on" chip like an Asmedia is used).

https://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/5771?cPage=2&all=False&sort=0&page=5&slug=the-intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-review

It uses an XHCI driver, something for USB3 that Windows 7 does not
have on the installer DVD.

https://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/IvyBridge/review/usb3.jpg

But that driver may also be used to make the USB2 ports work,
and the reason that happens is the hub with USB2 and USB3 connected
to it, needs that driver to make the hub work, so that USB2 can
be selected. There's some tie-in like that. They didn't always make
Southbridges that way, and they didn't always have a hub as the
last stage before the I/O pads. At the time, I couldn't understand
why Intel did that... but it is what it is and we're stuck with it.

*******

But that's just interesting fluff, and does not answer
the question why your mouse just up and disappeared.
Maybe it is the battery, but I suppose you'll know
when the mouse is recharged or the battery is changed.

If your BT was BT4, then it was supposed to work with the
M650, and BT4 is "low energy", and the protocol might be
slightly better on battery life. Than say, a more ancient and
crusty version of BT.

My BT dongles are both BT4, but that was not because of
some clever selection method on my part. It was whatever
they were selling at the computer store that day. Not a lot
of selection, and I got whatever was on a nail on a peg board.

Just like years ago, I bought a network card for $10 out
of a "barrel of network cards", it's an RTL8139, and it's
surprising just how many times I've used that in computers
here (because it has... drivers, all over the place). It's
weird that a shitty card, gets so much use, just because
it had drivers.

I was using some AV scanner, and it could not initialize my
Intel NIC, so I had to slap in the RTL8139, and sure enough,
the CD picked up the thing right away.

Paul

I probably do not understand but the M650 does not use a dongle for
bluetooth only for USB, this based on what I read. What I do not
understand is how the mouse knows it is supposed to use bluetooth or USB ?

I may have time today to try other things with this M460 mouse but if no
success it is bound for a return trip for money back.

On 2022-03-19 9:42 a.m., Aoli wrote:
> I probably do not understand but the M650 does not use a dongle for
> bluetooth only for USB, this based on what I read.  What I do not
> understand is how the mouse knows it is supposed to use bluetooth or USB ?
>
> I may have time today to try other things with this M460 mouse but if no
> success it is bound for a return trip for money back.
>

You are writing about the Logitech M650 mouse, now I see M460, I do not
find an M460 logitech am I missing something or is this just a typo?

Rene

Logi M650

Sorry, old fingers.