The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
Someone else can find an English language link.

<https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>

Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
and video

Joshua Llorach Wednesday at 12:01

Vodafone's parent company Vodafone is pulling out of the deal that
brought RCS messaging to Spain in coordination with Movistar, Orange and
MásMóvil. The operator is progressively disconnecting customers who use
this protocol. At the same time it announces that enhanced MMS text
messaging will cease to work on its mobile network in mid-March.

End of MMS messages

Vodafone customers have been receiving SMS messages in recent days
informing them of the end of the MMS messaging service on their mobile
network. From 15 March, Vodafone's network will no longer allow this
type of evolved text message to be sent. The operator invites its users
to switch to other messaging apps such as WhatsApp, Messenger or
Telegram if they want to exchange photos, videos or files using its network.

«VF Info: We inform you that Vodafone will stop providing the
multimedia messaging service over mobile network (MMS) from 15/03/2023.
You can continue to use any other messaging application as before, such
as WhatsApp, Messenger or Telegram to send photos, videos or other files
using Vodafone's mobile network.»

The closure of Vodafone's MMS service is further evidence of how
operators have failed to make their networks' native services work in
the face of OTT (Over The Top) arrivals, despite the fact that the
latter use mobile data to carry traffic, such as VoIP calls or instant
messaging without any kind of guarantee as with network services.

MMS (Multimedia Messaging Service) is an enhanced version of SMS (Short
Message System) messages that was designed in the GSM (2G) and UMTS (3G)
mobile telephony era to expand the limited possibilities of text
messages by allowing for more length beyond the 160 characters of SMS,
as well as the inclusion of images and video. At the time, SMS was one
of the operators' most successful services and had become a huge source
of revenue, as it was the only way to communicate with other users
without making a more expensive phone call.

Operators were rubbing their hands in anticipation of what the successor
to SMS would be able to do, especially thanks to the increased speed
that 3G UMTS networks would bring to transporting their content.
However, companies' over-ambitious pricing policy with MMS, where they
charged for the data traffic needed to download it rather than a fixed
price per message, meant that the cost of this type of messaging was
high, exceeding one euro per MMS as soon as an image was added.

The end of RCS chat messaging in Vodafone subsidiaries

After the failure of MMS, came RCS (Rich Communication Services)
messaging, launched by Movistar in Spain under the name Joyn to respond
to the growing dominance of WhatsApp. The lack of compatibility between
terminals discouraged users from taking it as a serious alternative,
despite the fact that, thanks to being a native network service, the
transmission of messages was guaranteed. Google made an effort to
promote this protocol in Spain in 2020 by getting Movistar, Orange,
Vodafone and MásMóvil to agree to support it on their network so that
Android users could use it with the Chat app.

After this 3-year adventure, Vodafone is getting off the train by
ceasing to support this service in all the countries where it operates.
When consulting the conditions on the group's website, the operator
displays a message indicating that customers using this protocol are
being progressively disconnected, setting 31 March as the final date for
the closure of the service.

«SERVICE UPDATE: We regret to announce that RCS Chat will be
discontinued soon. All RCS customers will be gradually disconnected
until 31 March 2023.»

We do not know the reasons behind Vodafone's decision. We have asked the
operator and will add any further developments.

With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network, bringing its
network one step closer to the dumb pipe concept.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. quoted:

> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
> way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network

Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?

On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>
>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
>> way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>
> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?

I don't know, I am not a client of them, but of Movistar. And Movistar
use MMS themselves for their own commercials.

But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS, that's
bad. Other ISPs could do the same.

Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
each SMS again. About a dollar each.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>
>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>
>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>
> I don't know, I am not a client of them

My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
RCS. I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.

> but of Movistar. And Movistar
> use MMS themselves for their own commercials.
>
> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS, that's
> bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>
> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
> each SMS again. About a dollar each.

I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.

Andy Burns wrote:

>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
>> way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>
> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?

Hi Andy,

Isn't it a "good thing" that EMS went away?

I admit I have no idea how things work overseas, but here, in the states,
you use SMS and MMS (which handles media) without even thinking about it.

What is this "enhanced MMS" that Carlos is talking about for Vodaphone?

Looking it up, I find this wikipedia which confuses me even more I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Messaging_Service
"(EMS) was a cross-industry collaboration between Samsung, Ericsson,
Motorola, Siemens and Alcatel among others, which provided an
application-level extension to Short Message Service (SMS)
for cellular phones available on GSM, TDMA and CDMA networks."

Assuming "Enhanced MMS" is the same as "Enhanced Messaging Service",
the Wikiepedia goes on to say it's deprecated as obsolete.
"EMS was an intermediate technology, between SMS and MMS, providing some
of the features of MMS. EMS was a technology designed to work with
existing networks, but was ultimately made obsolete by MMS."

If that's the case, then shouldn't it be good riddance to EMS?

I apologize if I'm way off the mark because I happen to do just fine with
SMS/MMS in the states so I don't see any need for anything else (even RCS).

Andy Burns wrote:

> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
> RCS. I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.

Hi Andy,

I don't understand why anyone pines for RCS so I will respond to what
you're using to say what I'm using (which is working just fine for me).
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 tax

In the USA, on T-Mobile postpaid, I get for $25/month per line a "Simple
Choice" plan (which costs more than the regular plan because it gives me
unlimited free slow data overseas) plus an additional $16 monthly tax.

For that $25/line, I get the same deal in the USA and while traveling in
Europe of unlimited SMS texts, and unlimited MMS messages (which includes
media) and free phone calls both ways in the USA (I'm not sure about Canada
and Mexico but they're often included) and free unlimited high speed data.

When I'm in Europe, what changes is the free unlimited data isn't
guaranteed to be fast (as it's always roaming) and there are new charges
for making calls of a couple of dollars a minute (none for reception).

There's an added caveat that SMS is sometimes set to switch to MMS in group
messages and for messages which are very long, but I think that's handled
by the application, where I use the last known good version of PulseSMS.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR4jYqdJ/pulsesms05.jpg> PulseSMS last good version

I don't pine for RCS even as Google seems to be desperate to get me to
care. I don't need to know when someone is typing like WhatsApp tells me.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cJFmTXqb/waprivacy01.jpg> WhatsApp contact privacy

With the fact I don't "need" anything else (as far as I know anyway), what
does RCS buy me that I want (because it seems Google wants me to have it)?

On 2023-02-17 20:27, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>>
>>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>>
>>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>>
>> I don't know, I am not a client of them
>
> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
> RCS.   I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>
>> but of Movistar. And Movistar use MMS themselves for their own
>> commercials.
>>
>> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS,
>> that's bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>>
>> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
>> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay
>> for each SMS again. About a dollar each.
>
> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.
>

Yes, I guess so. But doesn't apply to sending to USA or Canada.

I don't know if everyone has unlimited SMS, though. I know some people
who I suspect have to pay for them, because they don't answer me but
wait till they meet me to answer, or answer via wasap when they get
within WiFi coverage.

Also, I don't know if I have to pay for an SMS to another EU country (or
outside of the union).

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-02-17 20:30, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>
>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Isn't it a "good thing" that EMS went away?
>
> I admit I have no idea how things work overseas, but here, in the states,
> you use SMS and MMS (which handles media) without even thinking about it.
>
> What is this "enhanced MMS" that Carlos is talking about for Vodaphone?

Translation error by DeepL, and missed by me on checking.

The phrase "At the same time it announces that enhanced MMS text
messaging" should be "At the same time it announces that enhanced text
messaging aka MMS"

....

> I apologize if I'm way off the mark because I happen to do just fine with
> SMS/MMS in the states so I don't see any need for anything else (even RCS).

The implication is that you will not be able to send MMS to your German
friends if you or them are in the Vodafone network, nor the reverse.

For them, their phones are probably using RCS automatically when sending
an SMS, which is of importance to them when sending to you because it is
gratis, but SMS is not.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2/17/2023 10:50 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

<snip>

> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
> each SMS again. About a dollar each.

Get someone in the U.S. to get you a Google Voice account and use it for
SMS in the U.S.. But you can't send SMS outside the U.S. (and perhaps
Canada), even for a fee.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
> Someone else can find an English language link.
>
> <https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>
>
> Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
> and video
>
> Joshua Llorach Wednesday at 12:01
>
> Vodafone's parent company Vodafone is pulling out of the deal that
> brought RCS messaging to Spain in coordination with Movistar, Orange and
> MásMóvil. The operator is progressively disconnecting customers who use
> this protocol. At the same time it announces that enhanced MMS text
> messaging will cease to work on its mobile network in mid-March.
>
> End of MMS messages
>
> Vodafone customers have been receiving SMS messages in recent days
> informing them of the end of the MMS messaging service on their mobile
> network. From 15 March, Vodafone's network will no longer allow this
> type of evolved text message to be sent. The operator invites its users
> to switch to other messaging apps such as WhatsApp, Messenger or
> Telegram if they want to exchange photos, videos or files using its network.
>
> «VF Info: We inform you that Vodafone will stop providing the
> multimedia messaging service over mobile network (MMS) from 15/03/2023.
> You can continue to use any other messaging application as before, such
> as WhatsApp, Messenger or Telegram to send photos, videos or other files
> using Vodafone's mobile network.»
>
> The closure of Vodafone's MMS service is further evidence of how
> operators have failed to make their networks' native services work in
> the face of OTT (Over The Top) arrivals, despite the fact that the
> latter use mobile data to carry traffic, such as VoIP calls or instant
> messaging without any kind of guarantee as with network services.
>
> MMS (Multimedia Messaging Service) is an enhanced version of SMS (Short
> Message System) messages that was designed in the GSM (2G) and UMTS (3G)
> mobile telephony era to expand the limited possibilities of text
> messages by allowing for more length beyond the 160 characters of SMS,
> as well as the inclusion of images and video. At the time, SMS was one
> of the operators' most successful services and had become a huge source
> of revenue, as it was the only way to communicate with other users
> without making a more expensive phone call.
>
> Operators were rubbing their hands in anticipation of what the successor
> to SMS would be able to do, especially thanks to the increased speed
> that 3G UMTS networks would bring to transporting their content.
> However, companies' over-ambitious pricing policy with MMS, where they
> charged for the data traffic needed to download it rather than a fixed
> price per message, meant that the cost of this type of messaging was
> high, exceeding one euro per MMS as soon as an image was added.
>
> The end of RCS chat messaging in Vodafone subsidiaries
>
> After the failure of MMS, came RCS (Rich Communication Services)
> messaging, launched by Movistar in Spain under the name Joyn to respond
> to the growing dominance of WhatsApp. The lack of compatibility between
> terminals discouraged users from taking it as a serious alternative,
> despite the fact that, thanks to being a native network service, the
> transmission of messages was guaranteed. Google made an effort to
> promote this protocol in Spain in 2020 by getting Movistar, Orange,
> Vodafone and MásMóvil to agree to support it on their network so that
> Android users could use it with the Chat app.
>
> After this 3-year adventure, Vodafone is getting off the train by
> ceasing to support this service in all the countries where it operates.
> When consulting the conditions on the group's website, the operator
> displays a message indicating that customers using this protocol are
> being progressively disconnected, setting 31 March as the final date for
> the closure of the service.
>
> «SERVICE UPDATE: We regret to announce that RCS Chat will be
> discontinued soon. All RCS customers will be gradually disconnected
> until 31 March 2023.»
>
> We do not know the reasons behind Vodafone's decision. We have asked the
> operator and will add any further developments.
>
> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
> way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network, bringing its
> network one step closer to the dumb pipe concept.
>
> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

MMS had vulnerability to deliver a weaponized text (aka Stagefright)
that executed code on the recipient's phone without involving the user.
It got patched in a later version of Android (which is now an old
version); however, MMS always seems to have vulnerabilities. In 2020, a
vulnerability was found in the Skia graphics library allowing another
weaponized (remote code execution without user intervention)
vulnerability.

On my phone, I have group messaging disabled in the Messages app.
Instead of sending an MMS message when there are multiple recipients, a
message gets sent for each recipient. Been a long time since I had a
cellular plan that had a low quota, or any quota, on texting.

I don't like texting as it promotes senders to excessively abbreviate,
and use very poor grammar. While lots of users suck at structuring an
e-mail message, that communication venue does prod more cogitation in
composing a message than does texting. After all, if someone needs more
than 160 characters to use SMS, I feel they should then be using e-mail.
MMS was to enhance SMS in trying to keep cellular users tied to using
that venue instead of using e-mail to overcome the SMS size limit.

There are users, like me, that disable automatic MMS retrieval. THe
user decides if they get the oversized message, or not. This is like
with e-mail clients where you can configure them to NOT retrieve
huge-sized messages, like some boob wanting to send you their new baby
or vacation videos.

Plain text and MMS messages are considered insecure. They leak
meta-data and allow telcos to get at your data. Other messaging apps
should still work, like WhatsApp, that do end-to-end encryption on
messages.

To be honest, I bit skewed in my opinion of texting: I don't like it.
Most text senders are crappy composers.

Am 17.02.23 um 19:20 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>
> The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
> Someone else can find an English language link.
>
> <https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>
>
> Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
> and video
>
> Joshua Llorach Wednesday at 12:01

RCS is dead since its invention by Nokia 2008. It never got traction.
Google thought it would succeed against iMessage and WhatsApp. Did not
work. Google is left out in this domain of instant messaging.

The Rich Communication Suite industry initiative[11] was formed by a
group of industry promoters in 2007. In February 2008 the GSM
Association officially became the project home of RCS and an RCS
steering committee was established by the organisation.

The steering committee specified the definition, testing, and
integration of the services in the application suite known as
RCS.[12][13][14] Three years later, the RCS project released a new
specification – RCS-e (e = 'enhanced'), which included various
iterations of the original RCS specifications. The GSMA program is now
called Rich Communication Services.[15]

The GSMA published the Universal Profile in November 2016.[16] The
Universal Profile is a single GSMA specification for advanced
communications. Carriers that deploy the Universal Profile guarantee
interconnection with other carriers. 47 mobile network operators, 11
manufacturers, and 2 OS providers (Google and Microsoft) have announced
their support.[17] Google's Jibe Cloud platform is an implementation of
the RCS Universal Profile, designed to help carriers launch RCS quickly
and scale easily.[18]

Samsung is the major device original equipment manufacturer (OEM) to
support RCS. Samsung RCS capable devices have been commercially launched
in Europe since 2012 and in the United States since 2015.

Google supports RCS on Android devices with its Android SMS app
Messages. In April 2018, it was reported that Google would be
transferring the team that was working on its Google Allo messaging
service to work on a wider RCS implementation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services

> End of MMS messages

In Switzerland the providers pulled the plug a while ago. Too expensive
and almost nobody uses in a world of WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram and
iMessage.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 17.02.23 um 19:32 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>
>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
>> way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>
> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?

RCS is dead.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 17.02.23 um 20:27 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>>
>>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>>
>>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>>
>> I don't know, I am not a client of them
>
> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
> RCS. I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>
>> but of Movistar. And Movistar
>> use MMS themselves for their own commercials.
>>
>> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS, that's
>> bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>>
>> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
>> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
>> each SMS again. About a dollar each.
>
> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.

SMS is practically free everywhere.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 17.02.23 um 20:45 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-02-17 20:27, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>>>
>>>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>>>
>>>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>>>
>>> I don't know, I am not a client of them
>>
>> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
>> RCS.   I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>>
>>> but of Movistar. And Movistar use MMS themselves for their own
>>> commercials.
>>>
>>> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS,
>>> that's bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>>>
>>> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
>>> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay
>>> for each SMS again. About a dollar each.
>>
>> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.
>>
>
> Yes, I guess so. But doesn't apply to sending to USA or Canada.

How come? Here it does but nowadays people agree on a messenger and have
much more options. And better privacy if the right one is used.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 18.02.23 um 08:12 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
> Am 17.02.23 um 20:45 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2023-02-17 20:27, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>>>>
>>>>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>>>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>>>>
>>>>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know, I am not a client of them
>>>
>>> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
>>> RCS.   I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>>>
>>>> but of Movistar. And Movistar use MMS themselves for their own
>>>> commercials.
>>>>
>>>> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS,
>>>> that's bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>>>>
>>>> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
>>>> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay
>>>> for each SMS again. About a dollar each.
>>>
>>> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I guess so. But doesn't apply to sending to USA or Canada.
>
> How come? Here it does but nowadays people agree on a messenger and have
> much more options. And better privacy if the right one is used.

BTW a lot of friends and relatives live in North America. Usually
iMessage is used.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 18.02.23 um 02:35 schrieb sms:
> On 2/17/2023 10:50 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
>> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
>> each SMS again. About a dollar each.
>
> Get someone in the U.S. to get you a Google Voice account and use it for
> SMS in the U.S.. But you can't send SMS outside the U.S. (and perhaps
> Canada), even for a fee.

North America is lagging Asia and Europe by 5-10 years in mobile
telecommunication.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 17.02.23 um 19:20 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> >
> > The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
> > Someone else can find an English language link.
> >
> > <https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>
> >
> > Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
> > and video
> >
> > Joshua Llorach Wednesday at 12:01
>
> RCS is dead since its invention by Nokia 2008. It never got traction.
> Google thought it would succeed against iMessage and WhatsApp. Did not
> work. Google is left out in this domain of instant messaging.

Google has burned their credibility with their complete inability to have a
messaging strategy:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-of-instability-the-history-of-google-messaging-apps/

The problem being that RCS depends on carriers, and carriers are frequently
not interested. Which is how they can 'withdraw' support for it, for
something that should only need an internet connection. And it's tied to
phone numbers, which means you can't share access between your phone and
tablet, or phone and smartwatch, without expensive carrier awkwardness (LTE
hardware and special number-sharing plans).

Had Google had a (single, not 22 of them) plausible iMessage competitor that
had an iOS app, then maybe that would have succeeded. Leaving it down to
carriers is a recipe for patchy and half-baked adoption.

Theo

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.

I don't get unlimited SMS (it's 2p each on my PAYG tariff), and I suspect
many other people on PAYG across Europe don't either. It's only when you go
on the monthly-bundle plans that it starts showing up as included.

I've never seen MMS on a tariff I would actually want to use - seen rates
like 50p/MMS which are just ridiculous. So not surprising that nobody used
it.

Theo

On 2023-02-18 08:15, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 18.02.23 um 08:12 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
>> Am 17.02.23 um 20:45 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>> On 2023-02-17 20:27, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>>>>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know, I am not a client of them
>>>>
>>>> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
>>>> RCS.   I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>>>>
>>>>> but of Movistar. And Movistar use MMS themselves for their own
>>>>> commercials.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS,
>>>>> that's bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
>>>>> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay
>>>>> for each SMS again. About a dollar each.
>>>>
>>>> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I guess so. But doesn't apply to sending to USA or Canada.
>>
>> How come? Here it does but nowadays people agree on a messenger and have
>> much more options. And better privacy if the right one is used.
>
> BTW a lot of friends and relatives live in North America. Usually
> iMessage is used.
>

If your folk agree on using a messenger, then all is fine. But if they
don't, I have to send SMS, and pay for it, unless they also have RCS,
and then it is free.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 18.02.23 um 12:24 schrieb Theo:
> Google has burned their credibility with their complete inability to have a
> messaging strategy:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-of-instability-the-history-of-google-messaging-apps/
>
> The problem being that RCS depends on carriers, and carriers are frequently
> not interested. Which is how they can 'withdraw' support for it, for
> something that should only need an internet connection. And it's tied to
> phone numbers, which means you can't share access between your phone and
> tablet, or phone and smartwatch, without expensive carrier awkwardness (LTE
> hardware and special number-sharing plans).
>
> Had Google had a (single, not 22 of them) plausible iMessage competitor that
> had an iOS app, then maybe that would have succeeded. Leaving it down to
> carriers is a recipe for patchy and half-baked adoption.

+1

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-02-18 12:53, Theo wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.
>
> I don't get unlimited SMS (it's 2p each on my PAYG tariff), and I suspect
> many other people on PAYG across Europe don't either. It's only when you go
> on the monthly-bundle plans that it starts showing up as included.
>
> I've never seen MMS on a tariff I would actually want to use - seen rates
> like 50p/MMS which are just ridiculous. So not surprising that nobody used
> it.

Correct.

I have bundled SMS, but not MMS, which get a ridiculous price similar to
yours. And I know people which have to pay for each SMS they send. Heck,
now that I think, I have a router on a data SIM which could send SMS
initially till the provider locked them out. Not included in the tariff.
Meaning I can not have the router tell me by SMS that the data cap is
near the monthly limit.

The thing is, if you have RCS (both ends), you get the same
functionality as MMS, for free. And plain SMS for free, of course.

Problem is, the indicator when going to send an SMS that is RCS is quite
subtle. In my phone, SMS/MMS is light blue, RCS is dark blue. I can long
tap on a message, then tap on the three dots menu, select details, and
the information says it clearly.

When start typing an RCS, I see that the send arrow has a keylock. If it
is an SMS, the send arrow says "SMS" below it. I haven't tried to
initiate an MMS; but I suppose I'll get the MMS text instead.

Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text -
but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
harder, so that is good :-D.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In article <i8h7cjx5jk.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text -
> but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
> harder, so that is good :-D.

rcs encryption is optional. google uses its own for their messaging
app, which is not the same as others.

On 2023-02-18 19:30, nospam wrote:
> In article <i8h7cjx5jk.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text -
>> but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
>> harder, so that is good :-D.
>
> rcs encryption is optional. google uses its own for their messaging
> app, which is not the same as others.

Mmm.

Well, the sample I tested my end is a Motorola, and the other end is a
Samsung. I see the keylock, so encryption is happening.

Then, on somecases the padlock might not show.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2/18/2023 10:16 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text -
> but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
> harder, so that is good :-D.

Ironically, it's the U.S. where MMS is still heavily used. iPhone users
use iMessage but Android users are more likely to use SMS and MMS. I
recently set up a Mac Mini with the AirMessage server so I can send and
receive iMessages, and do FaceTime, from my Android devices.

WhatsApp is gaining popularity in the U.S., but it's nowhere like its
level of use in Europe and India. China uses WeChat (some stores in my
area even take WeChat Pay, and not just Asian markets). Taiwan and Japan
use Line. South Korea uses KakaoTalk. It's just too late for RCS to make
much of an impact, which is too bad since it should be the universal
replacement for SMS and MMS.

I use WhatsApp a lot because my daughter rents an in-law unit in the Bay
Area where her cellular coverage is not great but she has fast Wi-Fi.
Her phone (Moto X4) doesn't support Wi-Fi calling but she likes her
phone because of its small size and the headphone jack. I may get her a
Pixel 6a or 7 and tell her that her old phone won't work anymore on
Verizon and that she'll just have to live without a headphone jack.

On 2/18/2023 1:50 PM, sms wrote:

> I may get her [daughter] a Pixel 6a or 7 and tell her that her old
> phone won't work anymore on Verizon and that she'll just have to
> live without a headphone jack.

My Galaxy S10+ works using a USB-C to headphone jack adapter. Perhaps
the Pixel will work with an adapter too and she won't have to give up
her headphone jack...