On 2/18/2023 9:11 AM, Incubus wrote:

<snip misinformation from our favorite trolls, and adding the Android
Usenet group>

> I don't see any automatic payment credit on my bill either.
> Where does it say that any carrier gives you money back for autopaying?

You can read about T-Mobile dropping the $5 per line autopay discount
for credit card payments here:
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/t-mobile-is-dropping-its-autopay-credit-card-discount-in-may/>.

It’s been in effect for so long that apparently many people have
forgotten that they’re even getting it, and many may not eve notice when
it goes away in May and their bill increases by $5 per month per line.

Verizon dropped the autopay discount for credit card payments, except
for their own credit card, several years ago, and also closed a loophole
that some people were using, see
<https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Personal-Finance/Verizon-closes-loophole-for-Auto-Pay-discount/td-p/5684026>.
There have been posts on the T-Mobile sub-reddit by subscribers that
have suggested using this loophole, but T-Mobile is certain to close it
the same way Verizon did. Personally, I still get it on my "Total by
Verizon" service for now, but it's not $5 per line, it's $5 for the
whole family plan (bringing the total from $100 for four lines to $95
for four lines).

AT&T still offers the autopay discount for credit card payments, as do
several MVNOs. Visible offers a $5 per month discount if you sign up for
autopay through Pay Pal, see <https://www.visible.com/v/paypal>. Of
course if T-Mobile is successful in eliminating the autopay discount for
credit card payments then AT&T may follow. This is a way of
surreptitiously raising prices.

Hopefully few people are naïve enough to allow any wireless carrier
direct access to their bank account. That would be an exceedingly
foolish thing to do, no matter the carrier.

One big advantage of autopay using a credit card, that several people on
the T-Mobile sub-reddit mentioned, was the accidental damage and loss
coverage that some credit cards offer. For example, see
<https://www.wellsfargo.com/credit-cards/active-cash/guide-to-benefits/?FPID=012688IDF40000&vendor_code=LS&sub_channel=AFF&siteID=SWlnSnn6x54-sKkjKobIPZ2Zo2WYyczc.Q#cell>
which explains the coverage offered on the no-annual-fee Wells Fargo
Active Cash credit card
<https://creditcards.wellsfargo.com/cards/active-cash-credit-card/>.
This free coverage eliminates the need to sign up for a carrier’s
“protection” or a manufacturer’s program like AppleCare+ or SamsungCare+
which is a significant savings. Even with the loss of the $5 per month
per line autopay discount, it’s still a better deal to not buy separate
protection.

As to the reason carriers prefer linking to a bank account instead of
billing a credit card are a) the lower fees, since they're probably
paying 1.5%-2.0% in fees depending on the type of credit card, and b)
because they know that those subscribers with credit cards that offer
accidental damage and loss coverage for cell phones are unlikely to
purchase the highly profitable coverage from the carrier.

In article <tsrcrn$48ja$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> You can read about T-Mobile dropping the $5 per line autopay discount

....

> Verizon dropped the autopay discount for credit card payments,

so t-mobile is doing the same thing . no big deal.

I also added this information to the Realistic Total Cost of
Ownership—iPhone Versus Android at
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BUZuX-i1set7ktS4lbfGBmzdiCLAoOKfqp0ZSOrZlhk>.
Even though it's not a platform issue, it does affect monthly costs and
should be factored into the cost of a plan.

I re-did the spreadsheet at
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zKPraK5-Li2vHsTG8O3K2molVV-Gwr_wsOSMSmgHi8I/>
to remove the Verizon autopay discount since they don't allow you to use
a credit card to pay your bill and still receive the autopay discount. I
didn't remove the T-Mobile autopay discount since it's still possible
that they may reconsider their proposed change before it takes effect.

This also affects the choice of a carrier since it's a de-facto price
increase for T-Mobile so if choosing a new carrier the document
"Coverage Differences Between AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon" at
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JLtqrZTpy33AxsVSJlUjSsoZHSZxSDO8l1B3fIytHlw/>
will be helpful in terms of knowing how to check coverage using the FCC
maps (as opposed to just the carriers' maps).

More on T-Mobile’s plan to eliminate the autopay discount unless you
allow them to take money directly out of your bank account.

According to a leaked internal memo
<https://i0.wp.com/tmo.report/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/autopaydoc_wm-scaled.jpg>,
the autopay discount for credit card payments will end on May 16, 2021.
The TMO article is at
<https://tmo.report/2023/02/t-mobile-is-planning-to-end-autopay-discount-for-these-customers/>.

The big lie in that memo is “This represents the majority of customers
who use AutoPay.” Really? Whether it’s for cash rebates, airline points,
or other rewards, or for the damage and loss coverage offered by many
credit cards (which eliminates the need to pay extra for AppleCare+,
SamsungCare+, or the carrier’s own damage and loss coverage) or just
because, as Clark Howard explained, it’s a terrible idea to allow a
company to take money out of your bank account, it’s highly likely that
the majority of customers on autopay use a credit card.

<https://clark.com/cell-phones/t-mobile-autopay-discount-for-credit-cards/>
“You never want to give a company the right to draft from your checking
account. The reason why is: They can mess up! That money can disappear
from your account and it can be very difficult to get it back.” Clark
goes on to recommend setting up AutoPay accounts with a credit card
instead. While you can still use a credit card with T-Mobile’s AutoPay
program, you won’t get the $5 monthly discount per line.

AT&T has not announced any plan to end the autopay discount for credit
cards. Verizon ended that discount several years ago.

In article <tstcdn$dqb0$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> the autopay discount for credit card payments will end on May 16, 2021.
> The TMO article is at

> The big lie in that memo is ³This represents the majority of customers
> who use AutoPay.² Really?

it's not a lie, and yes really, because most people use a debit card
for autopay.

On 2/19/2023 7:40 AM, sms wrote:

> <https://clark.com/cell-phones/t-mobile-autopay-discount-for-credit-cards/>

> “You never want to give a company the right to draft from your
>checking account."

Unfortunately my utilities (electricity, gas, water, sewer) give me 2
choices: mail in a check every month or draft checking. I of course use
draft checking because the mail thing is such a PITA. In the 23 years
I've been in my current house there has never been a problem (knocks on
wood).

> "The reason why is: They can mess up! That money can disappear from
> your account and it can be very difficult to get it back.”

Using my bank phone app it is very easy to keep the checking account
balance just above my outstanding bank drafts so any BIG unauthorized
withdrawal mistake would bounce since I have my overdraft protection
turned off. Again, never a problem (knocks on wood twice).

> Clark goes on to recommend setting up AutoPay accounts with a credit
> card instead.

Good advice if allowed (My CC also gives cashback). But some tack on a
fee (my HOA = 3%) for using a card and so makes that a bad choice too...

In article <tstefo$e38b$1@dont-email.me>, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

> > ³You never want to give a company the right to draft from your
> >checking account."
>
> Unfortunately my utilities (electricity, gas, water, sewer) give me 2
> choices: mail in a check every month or draft checking. I of course use
> draft checking because the mail thing is such a PITA. In the 23 years
> I've been in my current house there has never been a problem (knocks on
> wood).

use your bank's bill pay to push a payment.

On 2/19/2023 8:39 AM, nospam wrote:
> AJL wrote:

>> my utilities (electricity, gas, water, sewer) give me 2 choices:
>> mail in a check every month or draft checking. I of course use
>> draft checking because the mail thing is such a PITA.

> use your bank's bill pay to push a payment.

Suppose I could. But my current utility bank draft payment system has
worked without a flaw for 23 years. Why change now? And BTW my credit
cards have had ONE bad charge in the 50+ years I've used them so the
checking account is actually (currently) ahead in the safety game...

On 2/19/2023 8:30 AM, AJL wrote:

<snip>

> Suppose I could. But my current utility bank draft payment system has
> worked without a flaw for 23 years. Why change now? And BTW my credit
> cards have had ONE bad charge in the 50+ years I've used them so the
> checking account is actually (currently) ahead in the safety game...

Pushing out a payment via a bank's bill pay service is fine but it
doesn't qualify for the auto-pay discount from any of the carriers in
the U.S.. You have to let them pull the payment out of your account to
get that autopay discount, and that's not advisable, especially given
all the data breaches that the carriers have experienced.

My garbage company and my electric/gas company both take credit cards.
So I get the 2% cashback. In the U.S., utilities are charged a flat
$0.75 fee per credit card transaction. No idea what wireless carriers
are charged, but since the chance of fraud on these transactions is very
low, they probably also pay a low rate.

My wireless bill, on a Verizon prepaid service (Total Wireless) offers a
5% discount for auto-payment, regardless of how the auto-payment is
made. I thought it was a flat $5 because my bill for four lines is $100
so it's a $5 discount, but now I see that it's 5%. They take credit
cards or debit cards for auto-payment but they don't have any provision
for linking directly to a checking account. Unfortunately Verizon
recently greatly worsened the available plans for new Total Wireless
subscribers, but existing subscribers are grandfathered in until
November 2024. Actually, there are now some other choices that are about
the same net cost but that still offer the superior coverage of Verizon.
In my area of the country, if you're on T-Mobile you give up a great
deal of geographic coverage. See "Coverage Differences Between AT&T,
T-Mobile, and Verizon" at <tinyurl.com/ATVCoverageComparisons> or
<docs.google.com/document/d/1JLtqrZTpy33AxsVSJlUjSsoZHSZxSDO8l1B3fIytHlw>.

In article <tstuln$fsm7$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> In the U.S., utilities are charged a flat
> $0.75 fee per credit card transaction.

that depends on the specific utility. they're not all the same.

On 2/19/2023 7:16 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 2/19/2023 7:40 AM, sms wrote:
>
>> <https://clark.com/cell-phones/t-mobile-autopay-discount-for-credit-cards/>
>
> > “You never want to give a company the right to draft from your
> >checking account."
>
> Unfortunately my utilities (electricity, gas, water, sewer) give me 2
> choices: mail in a check every month or draft checking. I of course use
> draft checking because the mail thing is such a PITA. In the 23 years
> I've been in my current house there has never been a problem (knocks on
> wood).

My water provider is stuck in the last century so I have to push out a
payment through my bank's bill pay, but for electricity/gas and garbage,
they have their act together.

What I wish is that the county tax assessor would allow mobile wallet
payments when paying in person with a credit card since I get 3% back on
one credit card and they charge a 2.25% fee. I may sign up for the
Alliant Cashback Visa® Signature Credit Card which gives 2.5% cash back
on everything.

In article <tsuabi$gv2c$4@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> I get 3% back on
> one credit card and they charge a 2.25% fee. I may sign up for the
> Alliant Cashback Visa® Signature Credit Card which gives 2.5% cash back
> on everything.

$10k limit, then 1.5%.

On 2/19/23 3:11 PM, sms wrote:
> On 2/19/2023 7:16 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 2/19/2023 7:40 AM, sms wrote:
>>
>>> <https://clark.com/cell-phones/t-mobile-autopay-discount-for-credit-cards/>
>>
>> > “You never want to give a company the right to draft from your
>> >checking account."
>>
>> Unfortunately my utilities (electricity, gas, water, sewer) give me 2
>> choices: mail in a check every month or draft checking. I of course use
>> draft checking because the mail thing is such a PITA. In the 23 years
>> I've been in my current house there has never been a problem (knocks on
>> wood).
>
> My water provider is stuck in the last century so I have to push out a
> payment through my bank's bill pay, but for electricity/gas and garbage,
> they have their act together.

Mine accepts CC payments at the website. USBank has a card with 5% back
on utilities. SCORE, especially since the last one was nearly $1K for 2
months (includes water and trash).

It's all free money. Don't you pick up pennies?

> What I wish is that the county tax assessor would allow mobile wallet
> payments when paying in person with a credit card since I get 3% back on
> one credit card and they charge a 2.25% fee. I may sign up for the
> Alliant Cashback Visa® Signature Credit Card which gives 2.5% cash back
> on everything.

Now we have to figure in the cost of the stamps, which is significant at
times.

--
Cheers, Bev
All the toilets were stolen out of the police station.
The police have nothing to go on.

In article <tsufbo$hnv4$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Now we have to figure in the cost of the stamps, which is significant at
> times.

what stamps? bill pay will send the funds electronically via ach (next
day) or mail a check if needed (a few days) and cover any late fees if
something goes wrong as long as it was scheduled before the due date.

On 2/19/2023 4:37 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 2/19/23 3:11 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 2/19/2023 7:16 AM, AJL wrote:
>>> On 2/19/2023 7:40 AM, sms wrote:
>>>
>>>> <https://clark.com/cell-phones/t-mobile-autopay-discount-for-credit-cards/>
>>>
>>>  > “You never want to give a company the right to draft from your
>>>  >checking account."
>>>
>>> Unfortunately my utilities (electricity, gas, water, sewer) give me 2
>>> choices: mail in a check every month or draft checking. I of course use
>>> draft checking because the mail thing is such a PITA. In the 23 years
>>> I've been in my current house there has never been a problem (knocks on
>>> wood).
>>
>> My water provider is stuck in the last century so I have to push out a
>> payment through my bank's bill pay, but for electricity/gas and garbage,
>> they have their act together.
>
> Mine accepts CC payments at the website.  USBank has a card with 5% back
> on utilities.  SCORE, especially since the last one was nearly $1K for 2
> months (includes water and trash).

Yes, that's a good card to have for utility payments. I see that PG&E is
included as a 5% category. Right now I get only 2%.

The major cell phone providers are also 5% but that card doesn't provide
the accidental damage and loss.

nospam wrote:

> so t-mobile is doing the same thing . no big deal.

I thank Steve for letting us all know about this removal of $5 discount.

I called T-Mobile on this, and they tell me I never received any discount
for auto paying by credit card my T-Mobile bill of $100/month for six lines
(two of which are free for life) plus about $16 in stuff like taxes & fees.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

That's $60/month for Simple Choice + $40/month for the Simple Global option
(which is what gives me the 25c/minute and free sms/mms & data in Europe).

The service personnel said it won't go up in May and that I probably didn't
get the discount because I probably set up the autopayment from the start.

And yes, it's to my Costco Visa which is a credit card, not a debit card.
Bummer that I didn't get that $600 discount for the past ten years though.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to explain how my T-Mobile billing seems to work.