My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
her phone calls. Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
it up. I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.

The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
thing. I can see one possible scenario. A person wearing bluetooth
enabled hearing aids while running perhaps. Other than that, I just
don't get it. Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
option is good. I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
missing something.

sticks

Am 22.02.23 um 16:51 schrieb sticks:
> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
> her phone calls. Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
> it up. I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>
> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
> thing. I can see one possible scenario. A person wearing bluetooth
> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps. Other than that, I just
> don't get it. Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
> option is good. I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
> missing something.

Automatic answering of unwanted or even spam calls? Not really!
It can be even dangerous!

IMHO you are not missing anything at all!

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:51:09 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

>My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>her phone calls.

Bluetooth on her phone somehow got turned off? That frequently happens
to me.

>Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>it up. I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>
>The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>thing. I can see one possible scenario. A person wearing bluetooth
>enabled hearing aids while running perhaps. Other than that, I just
>don't get it. Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>option is good. I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>missing something.
>
>sticks

On 2/22/2023 12:25 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:51:09 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>> her phone calls.
>
> Bluetooth on her phone somehow got turned off? That frequently happens
> to me.

As you can see below, I specifically didn't ask how to fix it.
"The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
thing."

>> Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>> it up. I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>>
>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>> thing. I can see one possible scenario. A person wearing bluetooth
>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps. Other than that, I just
>> don't get it. Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>> option is good. I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>> missing something.
>>
>> sticks

In article <tt5qfg$1iqlj$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
<wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

> >
> >> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
> >> her phone calls.
> >
> > Bluetooth on her phone somehow got turned off? That frequently happens
> > to me.
>
> As you can see below, I specifically didn't ask how to fix it.
> "The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
> thing."

dunno why it no longer works, but the reason why it exists is simple:
hands-free operation to be able to answer a call without needing to
touch the phone, which in many places is now prohibited in a vehicle
while driving.

On 2/22/2023 1:53 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <tt5qfg$1iqlj$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
> <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>>>> her phone calls.
>>>
>>> Bluetooth on her phone somehow got turned off? That frequently happens
>>> to me.
>>
>> As you can see below, I specifically didn't ask how to fix it.
>> "The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>> thing."
>
> dunno why it no longer works, but the reason why it exists is simple:
> hands-free operation to be able to answer a call without needing to
> touch the phone, which in many places is now prohibited in a vehicle
> while driving.

I know of no locales where hands free operation means you can't touch
your phone. You are not allowed to hold your phone say while on a call,
and can answer an incoming call by touching your phone that's mounted in
a legally accessible location, or the button on your steering wheel.
Show me a state where you can never touch your phone.

If this were a legal requirement and you were a person that could not
miss a call I could see where this would be needed. I don't believe it
is true you can't touch the phone, so the question still remains why
this would be a good idea other than nospam's scenario.

On 22/02/2023 15:51, sticks wrote:
> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
> her phone calls.  Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
> it up.  I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>
> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
> thing.  I can see one possible scenario.  A person wearing bluetooth
> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps.  Other than that, I just
> don't get it.  Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
> option is good.  I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
> missing something.
>
> sticks

I'm not sure that you're using the correct terminology. I'm not aware
that a car ever *answers* a call. What it *does* do, if paired with a
phone using Bluetooth, is to transfer the ringing sound and the
subsequent voice conversation to the car's infotainment system so that
you can hold a hands-free conversation while driving without braking the
law (in UK, at any rate). When a call arrives, you still have to do
something to accept or reject it - it doesn't get answered automatically.

If it no longer works for your mom, either bluetooth has been turned off
or one or other device (car or phone) has forgotten its pairing setup.
This is easy to set up again.
--
Cheers,
Roger

In article <k5nbddFfu77U1@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
<mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22/02/2023 15:51, sticks wrote:
> > My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
> > her phone calls.  Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
> > it up.  I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
> > my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.

....

>
> I'm not sure that you're using the correct terminology. I'm not aware
> that a car ever *answers* a call.

the car itself doesn't answer (well, maybe kitt might). the phone can
auto-answer, which can be activated if paired with a vehicle.

In article <tt5sk0$1jn1u$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
<wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

> I know of no locales where hands free operation means you can't touch
> your phone. You are not allowed to hold your phone say while on a call,
> and can answer an incoming call by touching your phone that's mounted in
> a legally accessible location, or the button on your steering wheel.
> Show me a state where you can never touch your phone.

laws vary, but that doesn't actually matter since most people don't
mount their phone to the vehicle in the first place.

nevertheless:
<https://blog.greenflag.com/2020/mobile-phone-laws/>
Mobile phone laws for drivers to change making touching
devices illegal
....
Drivers can use their phones by tethering to their car using
Bluetooth or plugging into the car¹s USB socket. But they must
control their phone¹s functions without touching it. That means
using voice control, steering wheel buttons or via the dashboard
screen in their car.

auto-answer is not only for phones mounted in a vehicle. it works quite
well with a phone in a pocket, even when not driving (e.g, jogging or
other type of exercise), usually with a bluetooth headset, but possibly
also with its speaker, depending on the pocket.

police can also cite for distracted driving even if the phone is
physically mounted to the vehicle if they think it's a distraction (or
they are just looking for a reason to cite someone).

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 14:53:43 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <tt5qfg$1iqlj$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
><wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>> >> her phone calls.
>> >
>> > Bluetooth on her phone somehow got turned off? That frequently happens
>> > to me.
>>
>> As you can see below, I specifically didn't ask how to fix it.
>> "The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>> thing."
>
>dunno why it no longer works, but the reason why it exists is simple:
>hands-free operation to be able to answer a call without needing to
>touch the phone, which in many places is now prohibited in a vehicle
>while driving.

Moreover, my phone is kept in my pocket. Taking it out of my pocket
while driving would be almost impossible for me.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:46:34 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <tt5sk0$1jn1u$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
><wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> I know of no locales where hands free operation means you can't touch
>> your phone. You are not allowed to hold your phone say while on a call,
>> and can answer an incoming call by touching your phone that's mounted in
>> a legally accessible location, or the button on your steering wheel.
>> Show me a state where you can never touch your phone.
>
>laws vary, but that doesn't actually matter since most people don't
>mount their phone to the vehicle in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, mounting my phone to my car would be almost
exactly liking using bluetooth to answer calls on the car.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 20:14:36 +0000, Roger Mills
<mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 22/02/2023 15:51, sticks wrote:
>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>> her phone calls.  Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>> it up.  I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>>
>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>> thing.  I can see one possible scenario.  A person wearing bluetooth
>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps.  Other than that, I just
>> don't get it.  Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>> option is good.  I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>> missing something.
>>
>> sticks
>
>I'm not sure that you're using the correct terminology. I'm not aware
>that a car ever *answers* a call. What it *does* do, if paired with a
>phone using Bluetooth, is to transfer the ringing sound and the
>subsequent voice conversation to the car's infotainment system so that
>you can hold a hands-free conversation while driving without braking the
>law (in UK, at any rate).

I don't know about the UK, but here in the US, we brake the car, the
law. <G>

You're right, of course. The terminology of having the car answer the
car isn't correct. But from a practical standpoint that terminology is
fine, as far as I'm concerned. In effect, that's essentially what
happens.

On 2/22/2023 2:46 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <tt5sk0$1jn1u$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
> <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> I know of no locales where hands free operation means you can't touch
>> your phone. You are not allowed to hold your phone say while on a call,
>> and can answer an incoming call by touching your phone that's mounted in
>> a legally accessible location, or the button on your steering wheel.
>> Show me a state where you can never touch your phone.
>
> laws vary, but that doesn't actually matter since most people don't
> mount their phone to the vehicle in the first place.
>
> nevertheless:
> <https://blog.greenflag.com/2020/mobile-phone-laws/>
> Mobile phone laws for drivers to change making touching
> devices illegal
> ...
> Drivers can use their phones by tethering to their car using
> Bluetooth or plugging into the car¹s USB socket. But they must
> control their phone¹s functions without touching it. That means
> using voice control, steering wheel buttons or via the dashboard
> screen in their car.

I'm in the US, I see your link is for the UK. However, the next
paragraph on the page you quoted says this....

"Will drivers be able to use phones in their cradle?"

"As now, if they mount phones safely in a cradle, drivers will be able
to touch them. This lets them program sat navs, choose songs etc… But
the phone must stay mounted in the cradle."

Essentially, what I said in the OP as you quoted above.

On 2/22/2023 2:14 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 22/02/2023 15:51, sticks wrote:
>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically
>> answers her phone calls.  Honestly, I had never heard of this before
>> she brought it up.  I don't have an android phone, but it appears I
>> also have it on my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it
>> after a quick look.
>>
>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>> thing.  I can see one possible scenario.  A person wearing bluetooth
>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps.  Other than that, I just
>> don't get it.  Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>> option is good.  I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe
>> I'm missing something.
>>
>> sticks
>
> I'm not sure that you're using the correct terminology. I'm not aware
> that a car ever *answers* a call. What it *does* do, if paired with a
> phone using Bluetooth, is to transfer the ringing sound and the
> subsequent voice conversation to the car's infotainment system so that
> you can hold a hands-free conversation while driving without braking the
> law (in UK, at any rate). When a call arrives, you still have to do
> something to accept or reject it - it doesn't get answered automatically.

Not true.
My wife has an android and I had her check it. They give you options on
how long till it automatically answers in seconds. Essentially
beginning the opening of your mic without any interaction at all.

> If it no longer works for your mom, either bluetooth has been turned off
> or one or other device (car or phone) has forgotten its pairing setup.
> This is easy to set up again.

As I told Ken, not needing to know how to get this working again, I just
wanted to know why anybody would want to do it.

On 2/22/2023 11:58 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.02.23 um 16:51 schrieb sticks:
>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>> her phone calls. Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>> it up. I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>>
>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>> thing. I can see one possible scenario. A person wearing bluetooth
>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps. Other than that, I just
>> don't get it. Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>> option is good. I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>> missing something.
>
> Automatic answering of unwanted or even spam calls? Not really!
> It can be even dangerous!
>
> IMHO you are not missing anything at all!
>

I have no problem and understand some people might want to do this.
*NEVER* would I do this, and I doubt I will fix it for her. I actually
would prefer she put her phone in silent mode and in her purse when she
drives. But, that's another matter.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:44:10 -0600, sticks wrote:
>>>
>>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>>> thing.
> I have no problem and understand some people might want to do this.
> *NEVER* would I do this, and I doubt I will fix it for her. I actually
> would prefer she put her phone in silent mode and in her purse when she
> drives. But, that's another matter.

I believe it would be a god-send for a paralyzed person -- in bed -- in
a wheelchair -- in _most_ situations.

Jonesy

On 22/02/2023 21:00, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 20:14:36 +0000, Roger Mills
> <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 22/02/2023 15:51, sticks wrote:
>>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>>> her phone calls.  Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>>> it up.  I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>>> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>>>
>>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>>> thing.  I can see one possible scenario.  A person wearing bluetooth
>>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps.  Other than that, I just
>>> don't get it.  Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>>> option is good.  I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>>> missing something.
>>>
>>> sticks
>>
>> I'm not sure that you're using the correct terminology. I'm not aware
>> that a car ever *answers* a call. What it *does* do, if paired with a
>> phone using Bluetooth, is to transfer the ringing sound and the
>> subsequent voice conversation to the car's infotainment system so that
>> you can hold a hands-free conversation while driving without braking the
>> law (in UK, at any rate).
>
>
> I don't know about the UK, but here in the US, we brake the car, (not) the
> law. <G>
>

It's the same in the UK! I've no idea why I wrote brake instead of break
- I do know the difference!
--
Cheers,
Roger

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 22:32:44 +0000, Roger Mills
<mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 22/02/2023 21:00, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 20:14:36 +0000, Roger Mills
>> <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/02/2023 15:51, sticks wrote:
>>>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>>>> her phone calls.  Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>>>> it up.  I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>>>> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>>>>
>>>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>>>> thing.  I can see one possible scenario.  A person wearing bluetooth
>>>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps.  Other than that, I just
>>>> don't get it.  Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>>>> option is good.  I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>>>> missing something.
>>>>
>>>> sticks
>>>
>>> I'm not sure that you're using the correct terminology. I'm not aware
>>> that a car ever *answers* a call. What it *does* do, if paired with a
>>> phone using Bluetooth, is to transfer the ringing sound and the
>>> subsequent voice conversation to the car's infotainment system so that
>>> you can hold a hands-free conversation while driving without braking the
>>> law (in UK, at any rate).
>>
>>
>> I don't know about the UK, but here in the US, we brake the car, (not) the
>> law. <G>
>>
>
>It's the same in the UK! I've no idea why I wrote brake instead of break
>- I do know the difference!

I'm sure you do. Just a little joke.

I probably make more typos than you, but I usually catch and correct
them before hitting "send."

One typo I didn't catch. I left out "not."

Am 22.02.23 um 22:44 schrieb sticks:
> On 2/22/2023 11:58 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 22.02.23 um 16:51 schrieb sticks:
>>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>>> her phone calls. Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>>> it up. I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>>> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>>>
>>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>>> thing. I can see one possible scenario. A person wearing bluetooth
>>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps. Other than that, I just
>>> don't get it. Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>>> option is good. I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>>> missing something.
>>
>> Automatic answering of unwanted or even spam calls? Not really!
>> It can be even dangerous!
>>
>> IMHO you are not missing anything at all!
>>
>
> I have no problem and understand some people might want to do this.
> *NEVER* would I do this, and I doubt I will fix it for her. I actually
> would prefer she put her phone in silent mode and in her purse when she
> drives. But, that's another matter.

+1

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:51:09 -0600, sticks wrote:

> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
> her phone calls. Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
> it up. I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>
> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
> thing. I can see one possible scenario. A person wearing bluetooth
> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps. Other than that, I just
> don't get it. Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
> option is good. I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
> missing something.
>
> sticks

People with disabilities that make it hard to use traditional
methods of answering.

People in a work situation where it's more like an intercom/walkie talkie.

Fumbling with your phone while driving isn't a good idea.

People that need to communicate while doing other things such
as running like you mentioned, driving, operating machines, etc.

My question is how you end such a call if the other end doesn't
hangup?

On 22/02/2023 22:49, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 22:32:44 +0000, Roger Mills
> <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 22/02/2023 21:00, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 20:14:36 +0000, Roger Mills
>>> <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 22/02/2023 15:51, sticks wrote:
>>>>> My mom asked me to check on why her car no longer automatically answers
>>>>> her phone calls.  Honestly, I had never heard of this before she brought
>>>>> it up.  I don't have an android phone, but it appears I also have it on
>>>>> my I-phone, though I couldn't find the setting for it after a quick look.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason for this post is to try and understand why this is a good
>>>>> thing.  I can see one possible scenario.  A person wearing bluetooth
>>>>> enabled hearing aids while running perhaps.  Other than that, I just
>>>>> don't get it.  Anybody use this and have a reasonable reason why this
>>>>> option is good.  I would never use this, but mom is older and maybe I'm
>>>>> missing something.
>>>>>
>>>>> sticks
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure that you're using the correct terminology. I'm not aware
>>>> that a car ever *answers* a call. What it *does* do, if paired with a
>>>> phone using Bluetooth, is to transfer the ringing sound and the
>>>> subsequent voice conversation to the car's infotainment system so that
>>>> you can hold a hands-free conversation while driving without braking the
>>>> law (in UK, at any rate).
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know about the UK, but here in the US, we brake the car, (not) the
>>> law. <G>
>>>
>>
>> It's the same in the UK! I've no idea why I wrote brake instead of break
>> - I do know the difference!
>
>
> I'm sure you do. Just a little joke.
>
> I probably make more typos than you, but I usually catch and correct
> them before hitting "send."
>
> One typo I didn't catch. I left out "not."

I know - I added it for you!
--
Cheers,
Roger

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 22 Feb 2023 13:55:59 -0700, Ken Blake
<Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:46:34 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <tt5sk0$1jn1u$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
>><wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I know of no locales where hands free operation means you can't touch
>>> your phone. You are not allowed to hold your phone say while on a call,
>>> and can answer an incoming call by touching your phone that's mounted in
>>> a legally accessible location, or the button on your steering wheel.
>>> Show me a state where you can never touch your phone.
>>
>>laws vary, but that doesn't actually matter since most people don't
>>mount their phone to the vehicle in the first place.

Lots of people who are using google or another map mount their phones.

One way to tell is by looking at the hundred kinds of phone mounts for
sale, designed to attach in any way to any part of the car one can think
of.
>
>As far as I'm concerned, mounting my phone to my car would be almost
>exactly liking using bluetooth to answer calls on the car.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 17:01:22 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 22 Feb 2023 13:55:59 -0700, Ken Blake
><Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:46:34 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <tt5sk0$1jn1u$1@dont-email.me>, sticks
>>><wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know of no locales where hands free operation means you can't touch
>>>> your phone. You are not allowed to hold your phone say while on a call,
>>>> and can answer an incoming call by touching your phone that's mounted in
>>>> a legally accessible location, or the button on your steering wheel.
>>>> Show me a state where you can never touch your phone.
>>>
>>>laws vary, but that doesn't actually matter since most people don't
>>>mount their phone to the vehicle in the first place.
>
>Lots of people who are using google or another map mount their phones.

Lots, yes. Most, no.

>
>One way to tell is by looking at the hundred kinds of phone mounts for
>sale, designed to attach in any way to any part of the car one can think
>of.
>>
>>As far as I'm concerned, mounting my phone to my car would be almost
>>exactly liking using bluetooth to answer calls on the car.

Am 26.02.23 um 00:48 schrieb Ken Blake:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 17:01:22 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
> wrote:
>> Lots of people who are using google or another map mount their phones.
>
>
> Lots, yes. Most, no.

I don't. I just use the oral guidance.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)