nospam wrote:

>> *Your iOS app may still be covertly tracking you, despite what Apple says*
>>
>> <https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/04/a-year-after-apple-enf
>> orces-app-tracking-policy-covert-ios-tracking-remains/>
>
> that's the *app* doing the tracking, not ios.

What you fail to comprehend is privacy is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT between
Android and iOS such that, in this one component of privacy, Apple
_inserted_ a unique identifier into your _apps_, nospam. Google can't.
> apple has *nothing* to do with what app developers choose to do or not
> do.

You need to understand that privacy is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT between Android
and iOS where in the case of that one article, Apple's predatory
advertising doesn't meet reality for people who actually read the news.

The iKooks like Alan Browne who've never read the news in their lives,
believe everything simply because Apple said it was so; but it's not.

My problem with Apple's brazen lies is how predatory they are to poor
innocent people like Jolly Roger and Alan Baker, and yes, even you.

> unfortunately, app tracking is self-reported, and although many app
> developers are honest about it, some are not. that's just reality.
>
> nothing new about that and it's not specific to apple either. lots of
> companies aren't completely honest, in every industry.
>
>> 2. The privacy issues are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT between the two platforms...
>
> no they aren't.

The fact that you don't understand the platforms are DIFFERENT is not even
shocking anymore, nospam, but please understand that I know your child-like
brain "thinks" you understood what I said - but you don't actually
comprehend what I said about the PLATFORMS are what's very different.

I never said that privacy needs among the phone owners is different.
I said the PLATFORMS are different in how they handle privacy.

If you deny that, then... well... then that's _why_ you're an iKook.
>> That means while Apple tracks everything you do via that mothership
>> tracking account,
>
> no they don't, nor is there a 'mothership tracking account' that could
> even be used for that purpose.

For you to brazenly deny the existence of the iCloud account is typical for
you iKooks and no longer shocking that you deny what even Apple won't deny.

Why do you think Apple inserts that _unique_ identifier into all your apps?
Google doesn't. Google can't.

>> Google can't (because that mothership tracking account
>> does not exist).
>
> almost every android user has an active google id, what you call a
> 'mothership tracking account'.

I never said otherwise. Again, your child-like brain is not comprehending
that I said, very clearly, that on Android, if you want privacy from a
mothership tracking account, you can easily get that. On iOS you can't.

> what *you* do is not typical. it is also counterproductive, except you
> don't realize that.

While you show an adult cognitive comprehension that I set up my Android
from the start without a Google Account (just as I set up my Windows from
the start without a Microsoft Account), you do not show adult comprehensive
skills when you brazenly claim it's counterproductive.

Your brain just made that up, without any basis in fact, other than it _is_
counterproductive on iOS to NOT set up a mothership tracking account
because you can't download any of the apps from the Apple app store.

Like I am trying to teach you ignorant iKooks, nospam, the two platforms
are DIFFERENT when it comes to discussing privacy.

Given I can even more easily install apps from the Google app store
repository WITHOUT a mothership tracking account, where do you get your
facts which you've assessed it to be counterproductive NOT to have a
mothership tracking account on Google?

Are you going to claim that there are no Google replacement apps?

> the only 'tracking' is that apple, google and microsoft keep a record
> of which apps someone downloads from their respective app stores, but
> that's the extent of it. they don't monitor usage of said apps, nor can
> they.

Why do you iKooks always brazenly deny what even Apple doesn't deny?

Remember a decade ago Apple was caught lying about tracking your location?
<https://www.wired.com/2011/04/apple-iphone-tracking/>

You think that Apple stopped collecting your precise location data, nospam?
<https://www.howtogeek.com/437871/how-to-find-your-location-history-on-iphone-or-ipad/>

And that's just _one_ of the many ways Apple collects your private data
partly because they can pinpoint everything you do to your unique Apple
mothership tracking account (which Google can not enforce on Android).

You need to understand, nospam, that the two platforms are COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT in many ways when it comes to how they handle your privacy.

nospam wrote:

> what you fail to understand is that not having a front plate in an area
> where it's required makes the vehicle more distinctive than it
> otherwise would have been.

First off, I didn't fail to understand that, but I did fail to _mention_
that I understood that. (BTW, badgolferman, this simple admission by me, an
adult, is fundamentally what the iKooks completely lack in character).

> what you also fail to understand is your practice of not having a
> google id makes you more distinctive for tracking, because it's *very*
> rare anyone does that.

Again, I didn't fail to comprehend what you're claiming, but I didn't
mention that I'm aware that most people do have a Google Account.

My home also has the SSID hidden, nospam, for privacy reasons.
You could argue the same thing with that too, right?
And, my phones and laptops don't broadcast my home SSIDs either, right?
And there's no Microsoft account on my Windows 10 PCs, either, right?

All those things are done for privacy reasons, which, I'll easily grant
you, most people wouldn't even understand, let alone perform. Right?

I agree with you that I'm different in that I set up devices for privacy.
Adults have the capacity to agree with the facts, unlike you iKooks.

>> They're even in the police bodycam video having been pulled over multiple
>> times on that trip (the guys is apparently a horrible driver.
>
> the stops in indiana were very likely pretext stops.

I certainly immediately had thought about that when I read about it, but I
didn't see _any_ evidence that they were pre-planned information gathering
stops, so you have to be guessing when you say that (or you have cites,
which I doubt you have).

We'd also have to look at the timeline as to when the university metermaids
found his car and reported back to the central authority the connection.

> two stops within ten minutes is extremely unusual, especially for
> something minor such as tailgating, one of which was by a sheriff who
> normally does not patrol the interstates.

Again, it sure is indicative of something abnormal, I would agree; but
without any corroborating evidence, I'd have to lean toward Occam's Razor
which is just either bad luck or a very bad driver or good cops as they
were both in the same state, as I recall, just as he was entering it (as I
recall).

For now, I'm not going to jump to any other conclusion but that he was
doing the things which he was pulled over for (I don't recall if he was
actually cited, but I don't think so - I think he got a warning - but I
haven't re-read the documents since they were published).
>> You'd think a guy who just committed a few murders would drive below the
>> speed limit, stop at stop signs, not cross over the white lines, etc.
>
> he may have done that driving home the night of the murders, but the
> cross-country drive was a month later across multiple states nowhere
> near the crime.

I agree with any sensible statement. He was perhaps feeling quite safe, as
the police were tight lipped about the evidence, although I believe the
Elantra make and model was published by then (as I recall).

I wonder why he bothered to change his vehicle registration to another
state, as that stuff can be back tracked rather easily I would think.

>> It would be interesting to compare how many times Alex Murdaugh lied versus
>> how many times Apple lied in the same time frame as those murders took.
>
> you've gone off the deep end. seek help.

My point in bringing up Alex Murdaugh is that he was an inveterate
predatory liar, and my point in equating Apple to inveterate predatory
lying is to make a point that nobody lies like Apple lies.

"*The batteries made us do it*"... for example.
"*Think of the ecosystem*"... for another example.

Apple simply has more money to settle the criminal and civil suits.

>>> that information is not needed to make an arrest, so there's no need to
>>> disclose it at this time (assuming it does exist).
>>
>> I will agree with any logical statement you (or anyone) makes, nospam,
>> where I am not a lawyer, but I "think" they have to give the defense _all_
>> that they have at "some point" in time. I don't know when that point in
>> time is, but certainly it must be before the trial starts I would think.
>
> it's called discovery and it's happening *now*, ahead of the
> preliminary hearing in june. his lawyers need time to review it and
> build a defense.

Thanks for that information, which I appreciate, given I'm not a lawyer
but I knew there was a process where only the prosecution (not the defense)
has to provide all the related information they have on their case.
> don't expect much to be made public, as the only requirement is
> probable cause to continue with the real trial.

One minor datapoint that I'm looking to find out is the phone he owned.

You claimed Android but you didn't back up that claim, which is typical for
you since your belief system doesn't depend on facts.

I think it's more likely, since he was rather stupid, it's an iPhone (and
yes, I realize that you think people easily bamboozled by marketing
gimmickry are smart - so we're going to have to agree to disagree here).

You can't make those ungodly profit margins off an intelligent customer.

>>> this is likely his first major crime (and fortunately, his last), which
>>> is why he made a lot of mistakes that a seasoned criminal would never
>>> have done.
>>
>> I'm going to agree with you that this appears to be his first major crime,
>> as leaving the knife sheath and using the phone were simply dumb actions.
>
> it's also possible that leaving the sheath was intentional, thinking
> that it might throw off investigators to search for the 'wrong' type of
> knife, a seemingly smart move in his warped mind.

When they reported they found a knife at the home, they mentioned the type
but I noted it was NOT the type of Marine K-Bar knife that the sheath was
designed for.
> unfortunately for him, that isn't going to be particularly effective.

They never used the DNA evidence yet in the official court documents, they
just mentioned that they have them and that it's indicative, but if that
DNA evidence holds up in court, it will be particularly effective on jurors
I suspect.

Then again, the jurors believed OJ was innocent... so you never know.
> or it could have been a mistake.

I can't imagine anyone knifing four people to death not making some
mistake, e.g., there must have been blood all over his clothing.

And, as I recall, there was a "latent" shoeprint which will almost
certainly be brought into the juror's eyes if it anywhere fits his.

>>> oddly enough, it's analogous to you, who *thinks* you're hiding from
>>> google by not having a google account, while not having any idea what
>>> *other* evidence you're leaving.
>>
>> What you show no evidence of comprehending, nospam, is that the privacy
>> between Android and iOS is *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT* in myriad ways.
>
> actually, it isn't.

No. You're wrong. But I understand that you aren't thinking deeply about it
since you only believe what you see in glossy Apple marketing brochures.

The privacy of a person is the same overall whether or not they use an
iPhone or an Android phone, but the _way_ that the two platforms go about
it is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

For one salient example, Apple requires a mothership tracking account for
the user to download useful apps; Google doesn't per se - and Google can't.

That's different whether or not you understand that's different.
Likewise, Apple _inserts_ a unique identifier into your iOS apps, nospam.
Google doesn't. Google can't.

Again, that's DIFFERENT whether or not you understand that it's different.
>> For example, in Android I randomize my Wi-Fi MAC address per connection.
>> Can you do that with iOS by a simple toggle like you can with Android?
>
> ios does that automatically without needing to toggle anything (it's
> the default), and has done it long before android did.

I provided the URL in my other thread which shows they are DIFFERENT.
*Privacy question about randomizing the MAC address of the iPhone per each AP connection*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/4UKsKgmXLi0>

You just don't understand that they're rather different approaches.
> ios also can detect trackers and hide your ip address from them.
>
> either or both can be disabled if desired on a per-network basis.

What makes you think Android can't detect trackers, nospam?

I've covered the topic of trackers on the Android newsgroup, for example:
<https://i.postimg.cc/L5gnX3GS/linktopc07.jpg> List the app's trackers

On 05/03/2023 14:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-03-05 15:19, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 05/03/2023 13:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dangerous anti-vax fake news reported to:
>>>>      a b u s e @ t w e a k n e w s . n l
>>>
>>> Why do you make a prick of yourself "reporting" this, and making a
>>> point of saying you've "reported" it, you know they just go straight
>>> into the circular filing cabinet ...
>>
>> Why make a prick of yourself by appearing to condone someone else
>> making a prick of themselves by circulating brainless anti-vax shit?
>
> It is you who is making a fool of himself. Your report will be garbaged
> and ignored.

Possibly, but possibly not - usenet is a form of social media for
which, ultimately, the people who run the servers are responsible for
what is posted on them, and it's not in their long-term interest to
allow them to be abused by trolls posting fake news.

> And telling here about such a report is also naive and foolish.

It makes the point to the troll that he shouldn't be posting fake news
here, and that if (s)he continues to do so, there may eventually be
consequences.

> Grow up.

Follow your own advice. For myself, I am over 70 years old, and I've
seen enough to know that fake news, if it goes unanswered, becomes
widely believed simply because it's everywhere and goes unanswered, and
thus it is important to answer it.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive wrote:

> Why make a prick of yourself by appearing to condone someone else making
> a prick of themselves by circulating brainless anti-vax shit?

To Carlos, and every one who is an _adult_ on this Android newsgroup.

Andy Burns knows more about Android phones than likely the rest of us
combined, and as such, he has added tremendous _value_ to this ng, which
gives him more of a right to chastise the trolls than you have, Carlos.

Notwithstanding that Andy Burns was correct that Java Jive's post was
nothing but a troll, the topic of this thread is clearly what components of
Android and iOS can _track_ the user, such as these "trackers" for example.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L5gnX3GS/linktopc07.jpg> List app trackers

Interestingly, while I'm no fan of micky's nonsensical musings, the Covid
tracking capability of a phone, inserted at the height of the mass fear, is
probably something we should take up on this newsgroup, as that abnormal
petrifyingly insane fear most people had appears to have abated somewhat.

With respect to the idiotic "anti-vax" comments of Java Jive, I have a
degree in these things and while I got the shot, I argued rather
conclusively it doesn't even meet the CDC's own definition of a vaccine, so
by knowing this fact, does that make me "anti-vax"?

No, right?
And by disliking the inherently easily abused nature of the covid-tracking
capabilities Apple/Google inserted into my phone, does that make me
anti-vax?

My point is Java Jave was out of line, even as micky's statements were
almost nonsensical - and more importantly - Andy Burns was correct, IMHO,
to ask Java Jive to either contribute to the topic or shut up.

IMHO, Andy Burns did what adults _should_ do.

Since Usenet is water under the bridge, Java Jive can redeem himself by
responding in a manner that shows he owns adult cognitive skills, such that
he can improve the quality of our knowledge on the topic of data tracking
on either Android or iOS (as per the original post).

BTW, I've tried to find what data-collection logs Google performs too.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Fs8GDLfX/firebase01.jpg> Clear Firebase app indexes
<https://i.postimg.cc/QtfJ59LP/firebase02.jpg> Firebase indexed app data
<https://i.postimg.cc/KvCkLccr/firebase03.jpg> Firebase location tracking

If micky, Java Jive, Carlos or Andy (or anyone else who is an adult) has
more information on wiping out both "google maps location tracking" records
and wiping out the pernicious "firebase" residual location tracking from
Android, _that_ would be very useful on topic technical information indeed.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to bring the newsgroup back on topic for tracking.

Java Jive wrote:

> Possibly, but possibly not - usenet is a form of social media for
> which, ultimately, the people who run the servers are responsible for
> what is posted on them, and it's not in their long-term interest to
> allow them to be abused by trolls posting fake news.

Some people are on this newsgroup merely for their own amusement.
Let's get back on topic please as there is useful info to learn here.

If people can pitch in to explain the screenshots below, that would help us
all better understand the location tracking on Android (and on iOS).
>> And telling here about such a report is also naive and foolish.
>
> It makes the point to the troll that he shouldn't be posting fake news
> here, and that if (s)he continues to do so, there may eventually be
> consequences.

Having a degree in such things, I think micky's comments were unwarranted,
but I think Java Jive could have added on topic technical value, probably
far more so than micky or Carlos ever could have.

In that manner, I believe Andy Burns was admonishing you to step up to the
challenge of contributing useful on-topic technical information to this
thread.

>> Grow up.
>
> Follow your own advice. For myself, I am over 70 years old, and I've
> seen enough to know that fake news, if it goes unanswered, becomes
> widely believed simply because it's everywhere and goes unanswered, and
> thus it is important to answer it.

I think the vast majority of the posters to this newsgroup are in
retirement ages, the point being age alone doesn't make anyone an adult.

The whole "fake news" thing should be approached simply by supplying the
facts, and in being credible when you do so, For example, I plea with you
(and other adults on this newsgroup like Andy Burns) to help me better
understand how to identify and stop trackers inside of our Android apps.
Android and iOS can _track_ the user, such as these "trackers" for example.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L5gnX3GS/linktopc07.jpg> List app trackers

In addition to helping us determine how to find the internal logs that apps
seem to keep on our location, it's also useful if someone can shed light on
how to prevent the specific Google Maps app from saving our location logs.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8cS6sYGD/mapsloctrack01.jpg> Clear Maps cache/data
<https://i.postimg.cc/vBR1SKc9/mapsloctrack02.jpg> Clear Services tracks
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhCCVxmB/mapsloctrack03.jpg> Test Firebase tracks
<https://i.postimg.cc/sDfM87Dn/mapsloctrack04.jpg> Clear Firebase tracks
<https://i.postimg.cc/28TZ8TKR/mapsloctrack05.jpg> Disable Maps tracking
<https://i.postimg.cc/Dy7GTR5P/mapsloctrack06.jpg> Stop Maps tracking

In addition to Google Maps' logs, there's also pernicious Firebase logs!
<https://i.postimg.cc/Fs8GDLfX/firebase01.jpg> Clear Firebase app indexes
<https://i.postimg.cc/QtfJ59LP/firebase02.jpg> Firebase indexed app data
<https://i.postimg.cc/KvCkLccr/firebase03.jpg> Firebase location tracking

If micky, Java Jive, Carlos or Andy (or anyone else who is an adult) has
more information on identifying & then preventing, and therefore wiping out
both "google maps location tracking" records and the pernicious "firebase"
residual location tracking from Android, _that_ would be very useful on
topic technical information indeed.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to bring the newsgroup back on topic for tracking.

Am 05.03.23 um 13:17 schrieb Java Jive:
> On 05/03/2023 02:31, micky wrote:
>>
>> OTOH, the trackers in the covid "vaccine" are inside you, so they give a
>> more precise location to those people who are tracking you.
>
> Dangerous anti-vax fake news reported to:
> a b u s e @ t w e a k n e w s . n l

Everybody knows that micky is a bit senile. He needs a problem with his
cell phone every day. Otherwise he gets severe withdrawal symptoms and
the risk increases that he dies from an overdose of frogpills.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 05/03/2023 21:29, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
> Am 05.03.23 um 13:17 schrieb Java Jive:
>>
>> On 05/03/2023 02:31, micky wrote:
>>>
>>> OTOH, the trackers in the covid "vaccine" are inside you, so they give a
>>> more precise location to those people who are tracking you.
>>
>> Dangerous anti-vax fake news reported to:
>> a b u s e @ t w e a k n e w s . n l
>
> Everybody knows that micky is a bit senile. He needs a problem with his
> cell phone every day. Otherwise he gets severe withdrawal symptoms and
> the risk increases that he dies from an overdose of frogpills.

LOL!

But it's not just no-hopers like Micky that are the problem, it's those
who might come afterwards, read a load of crap that has gone unanswered,
and might therefore think "it must be true, because I read it online,
and no-one questioned it".

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Am 06.03.23 um 00:10 schrieb Java Jive:
> On 05/03/2023 21:29, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>
>> Am 05.03.23 um 13:17 schrieb Java Jive:
>>>
>>> On 05/03/2023 02:31, micky wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, the trackers in the covid "vaccine" are inside you, so they give a
>>>> more precise location to those people who are tracking you.
>>>
>>> Dangerous anti-vax fake news reported to:
>>> a b u s e @ t w e a k n e w s . n l
>>
>> Everybody knows that micky is a bit senile. He needs a problem with his
>> cell phone every day. Otherwise he gets severe withdrawal symptoms and
>> the risk increases that he dies from an overdose of frogpills.
>
> LOL!
>
> But it's not just no-hopers like Micky that are the problem, it's those
> who might come afterwards, read a load of crap that has gone unanswered,
> and might therefore think "it must be true, because I read it online,
> and no-one questioned it".

Calm down! Everything is conspiracy crap ...
And everybody knows.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 06/03/2023 06:55, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
> Everything is conspiracy crap ...
> And everybody knows.

No, sadly, they don't.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 5 Mar 2023 12:17:10 +0000, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

>On 05/03/2023 02:31, micky wrote:
>>
>> OTOH, the trackers in the covid "vaccine" are inside you, so they give a
>> more precise location to those people who are tracking you.
>
>Dangerous anti-vax fake news reported to:
> a b u s e @ t w e a k n e w s . n l

I guess I should have labeled it as sarcasm, but I thought that was
clear and I've found doing that ruins the humor.

If you really did write to the newsserver, maybe they'll know it was
sarcasm.

On 06/03/2023 13:23, micky wrote:
>
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 5 Mar 2023 12:17:10 +0000, Java Jive
> <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Dangerous anti-vax fake news reported to:
>> a b u s e @ t w e a k n e w s . n l
>
> I guess I should have labeled it as sarcasm, but I thought that was
> clear and I've found doing that ruins the humor.

Then use a smiley, that's what they're for.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <tu2ht0$38p2e$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
<nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> First off, I didn't fail to understand that, but I did fail to _mention_
> that I understood that.

that's not supported by evidence

> My home also has the SSID hidden, nospam, for privacy reasons.

it's trivial to determine what a hidden ssid is.

it has no effect on those who know how to hack wifi, potentially making
them more interested in why it's hidden.

> And, my phones and laptops don't broadcast my home SSIDs either, right?

further proving how little you understand about wifi, privacy and
security.

>
> > two stops within ten minutes is extremely unusual, especially for
> > something minor such as tailgating, one of which was by a sheriff who
> > normally does not patrol the interstates.
>
> Again, it sure is indicative of something abnormal, I would agree; but
> without any corroborating evidence, I'd have to lean toward Occam's Razor
> which is just either bad luck or a very bad driver or good cops as they
> were both in the same state, as I recall, just as he was entering it (as I
> recall).

he was under surveillance for the entire cross-country drive, using
assets on both the ground and in the air.

the two stops in quick succession reek of a pretext stop, versus bad
driving.

no citations were issued and they didn't even run his license in
*either* instance. it was just a couple minutes of chit chat and that
was it.

> I wonder why he bothered to change his vehicle registration to another
> state, as that stuff can be back tracked rather easily I would think.

he had to because his existing pennsylvania plates were about to expire.

> >> I will agree with any logical statement you (or anyone) makes, nospam,
> >> where I am not a lawyer, but I "think" they have to give the defense _all_
> >> that they have at "some point" in time. I don't know when that point in
> >> time is, but certainly it must be before the trial starts I would think.
> >
> > it's called discovery and it's happening *now*, ahead of the
> > preliminary hearing in june. his lawyers need time to review it and
> > build a defense.
>
> Thanks for that information, which I appreciate, given I'm not a lawyer
> but I knew there was a process where only the prosecution (not the defense)
> has to provide all the related information they have on their case.

discovery works both ways.

> > don't expect much to be made public, as the only requirement is
> > probable cause to continue with the real trial.
>
> One minor datapoint that I'm looking to find out is the phone he owned.
>
> You claimed Android but you didn't back up that claim, which is typical for
> you since your belief system doesn't depend on facts.

i've been following the case and i saw it mentioned at some point,
probably on reddit, but it's irrelevant to the case and not worth
finding again.

In article <tu2e7p$38bl3$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
<nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> >> *Your iOS app may still be covertly tracking you, despite what Apple says*
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/04/a-year-after-apple-
> >> enf
> >> orces-app-tracking-policy-covert-ios-tracking-remains/>
> >
> > that's the *app* doing the tracking, not ios.
>
> What you fail to comprehend is privacy is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT between
> Android and iOS such that, in this one component of privacy, Apple
> _inserted_ a unique identifier into your _apps_, nospam. Google can't.

they can, but that is completely irrelevant since it's not used for
what you think it is.

further, the above link is about *apps* collecting data and lying about
it, to both apple and to users.

it is *not* about apple or google doing any sort of tracking.

try reading it first before spewing your usual bullshit, and you don't
even need to get very far. the *headline* is clear:

Your iOS app may still be covertly tracking you, despite what Apple
says

>
> Remember a decade ago Apple was caught lying about tracking your location?

they weren't caught lying about anything.

what happened was that someone saw location data on their phone and
immediately assumed it was for a nefarious purpose.

it turned out to be nothing more than a wifi geolocation cache, because
using a cache is *much* faster than a network query.

that's what happens when people who don't know what they're looking at
make baseless assumptions about things they do not understand.

meanwhile, google street view cars were caught collecting wifi data as
they drove around:
<https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/may/15/google-admits-storin
g-private-data>
German request for data audit reveals the web giant 'accidentally'
stored payload information from open networks

the word 'accidentally' is doing a lot of work there.

On 2023-03-06 14:23, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 5 Mar 2023 12:17:10 +0000, Java Jive
> <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2023 02:31, micky wrote:
>>>
>>> OTOH, the trackers in the covid "vaccine" are inside you, so they give a
>>> more precise location to those people who are tracking you.
>>
>> Dangerous anti-vax fake news reported to:
>> a b u s e @ t w e a k n e w s . n l
>
> I guess I should have labeled it as sarcasm, but I thought that was
> clear and I've found doing that ruins the humor.
>
> If you really did write to the newsserver, maybe they'll know it was
> sarcasm.

They will just garbage the letter.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

nospam wrote:

>> What you fail to comprehend is privacy is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT between
>> Android and iOS such that, in this one component of privacy, Apple
>> _inserted_ a unique identifier into your _apps_, nospam. Google can't.
>
> they can, but that is completely irrelevant since it's not used for
> what you think it is.

Hi nospam,
I'm going to try a dialog with you as if you own the mind of an adult, ok?

An example of an adult mind working properly is the case of the Tor browser
on iOS, where any normal adult would notice it's conspicuously missing from
iOS - and then they'd ask why.

Once you ask _why_, you realize that the reason is webkit; but until you
ask why, you will never understand why iOS lacks the Tor browser privacy
that _every_ other common consumer operating system enjoys, including
macOS.

Same _adult_ thinking concept here, nospam, where adults notice Apple does
something verrrrrrrrrrry _different_ with iOS than is done for all other
normal consumer operating systems, nospam (we can ignore macOS for this).

Apple _inserts_ a unique id into _every_ app you install on iOS, nospam.
Google doesn't.

As an adult, you have to ask why.

> meanwhile, google street view cars were caught collecting wifi data as
> they drove around:

It's no longer shocking that you constantly claim Google made Apple do it.
You can't blame Google constantly, nospam, for Apple mothership tracking.

The fact is Google does not put a unique identifier into each of your apps.
Apple does.

The adult question to ask is why.

nospam wrote:

>> My home also has the SSID hidden, nospam, for privacy reasons.
>
> it's trivial to determine what a hidden ssid is.

Jesus Christ nospam. Every time you say something _that_ incredibly stupid,
I have to wonder if your brain is permanently stuck as that of a five year
old.

I'd expect _that_ kind of ignorance to be from the mouth of Alan Browne,
not you, nospam.

You're _supposed_ to know something about privacy.
Yet you don't know the most basic of the most fundamental things.

Sheesh. This is how I know your IQ is far lower than normal, nospam.

> it has no effect on those who know how to hack wifi, potentially making
> them more interested in why it's hidden.

I'm not even going to explain to you why that thought process is that of a
five year old, nospam, in light of the fact I've put entire tutorials out
there for the steps required _after_ you stop broadcasting your SSID.

You're literally not an adult, nospam, because you can't comprehend a topic
that is insanely simple and yet you only believe what Alan Baker would.

>> And, my phones and laptops don't broadcast my home SSIDs either, right?
>
> further proving how little you understand about wifi, privacy and
> security.

You're incredibly ignorant, nospam, because you _think_ I'm not
broadcasting the SSID for _security_ (which is NOT why I'm doing it).

You have no concept of why not broadcasting the SSID is for _privacy_ and
the reason is that you're incapable of understanding nuance in detail.

You're not an adult nospam, if you can't comprehend this simple topic.
It's not for _security_ (as anyone can find the SSID in the packets).

It's for privacy.
The problem with uneducated low-IQ people like you, nospam, which we see in
Alan Browne and Alan Baker and Jolly Roger too, is you jump to conclusions
based on what you _think_ you know about the subject.

What you know is what _everyone_ knows, nospam, which is that not
broadcasting your SSID has almost no impact on your _security_.

What you don't know is what the impact is on privacy.
If I may be blunt, you're actully too stupid to learn.

Because you think you know it all.
And yet, every statement from you above shows you have no idea.

It whooshed over your head _why_ and _how_ not broadcasting the SSID helps
privacy, and, worse, you don't know the following steps you should also do
given you have to _also_ tell the phone not to auto-reconnect.

I could go into gory detail but I wrote entire tutorials on this.

And they're in the XDA Developers site too (in addition to Usenet) so I
already know you'll say they're wrong but the fact is they're NOT wrong.

What's wrong is your brain is that of a five year old child nospam.
You can't conceive of any other use of hiding the SSID other than security.

All you iKooks suffer from the same character flaws.
1. You "think" you're smart (but you're actually uneducated ignorant kooks)
2. You "jump to conclusions" based on _zero_ evidence
3. And, you're too stupid to check your work against the facts.

Anyway, the fact you _think_ not hiding the SSID was for _security_ is how
I know, nospam, you don't own the normal mental acuity of an adult.

On 07/03/2023 08:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> They will just garbage the letter.

Not necessarily IME, I have received human written replies in the past.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| They will just garbage the letter.
|

Which is what others should do. I see 11 posts
criticizing people who should be filtered out in the
first place. Why would anyone not block nospam?
He's a compulsive arguer and Apple groupie. Micky
just likes to gab. Andy (Dave?) never says anything
relevant. Joerg, ditto.

I posted a simple, concise list of security/privacy
risks. There must be 20+ posts under that, most of which
I can't see. All of them are just arguing.

Maybe it's me. Maybe I should
just be hanging out with 80-year-olds at the local
donut shop instead of coming to usenet. At least I'd
hear about the latest sales at the supermarket, along
with the complaining. And maybe I'll run into Micky there. :)

Newyana2 wrote:

> Which is what others should do. I see 11 posts
> criticizing people who should be filtered out in the
> first place.

Hi Newyana2,
I originally thought you were an apple/micky troll, but I've seen the work
you do on the Windows newsgroup especially and I now very much respect you.

However... had I filtered you out from the start, I'd never have learned
that respect of your useful technical acumen (e.g., in firefox settings).

I'm guessing perhaps (based on your use of "Andy/Dave" (how'd you know my
real name?), that you filter me out too - which would be your loss.

A _lot_ of people filter me out, for example, like Steve, for example, but
then Steve says a _lot_ of things that are ignorant as a result (e.g., he
recently claimed a whole bunch of ignorance on battery health meters on
iOS, which weren't discussed here but which I had tested in gory detail).
<https://i.postimg.cc/bNGJbphn/battery02.jpg> 3utools battery info

By blocking me, Steve will _remain_ ignorant, which is the danger.
You too (if that's what you do).

So be it.
My goals on this Android newsgroup are always the same because they're
based on my morals and conviction of trying to learn from & help people.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully try to expound on the filter concept.

Am 07.03.23 um 15:07 schrieb Newyana2:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | They will just garbage the letter.
> |
>
> Which is what others should do. I see 11 posts
> criticizing people who should be filtered out in the
> first place. Why would anyone not block nospam?
> He's a compulsive arguer and Apple groupie. Micky
> just likes to gab. Andy (Dave?) never says anything
> relevant. Joerg, ditto.

*You* are the motorist driving against the traffic on the interstate.
You are simply lacking the knowledge to discuss these issues.

> I posted a simple, concise list of security/privacy
> risks. There must be 20+ posts under that, most of which
> I can't see. All of them are just arguing.
>
> Maybe it's me. Maybe I should
> just be hanging out with 80-year-olds at the local
> donut shop instead of coming to usenet.

Yes please, Mayayana. *You* are the motorist driving against the traffic
on the interstate.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-03-07 13:01, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> My home also has the SSID hidden, nospam, for privacy reasons.
>>
>> it's trivial to determine what a hidden ssid is.
>
> Jesus Christ nospam. Every time you say something _that_ incredibly stupid,
> I have to wonder if your brain is permanently stuck as that of a five year
> old.
>
> I'd expect _that_ kind of ignorance to be from the mouth of Alan Browne,
> not you, nospam.
>
> You're _supposed_ to know something about privacy. Yet you don't know
> the most basic of the most fundamental things.
>
> Sheesh. This is how I know your IQ is far lower than normal, nospam.

<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=How+to+scan+hidden+SSID+WIFI%3F&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVkcOsvMr9AhVJTaQEHXr5BeYQ3rMBegQIJhAC&biw=1113&bih=721>

Is there an app to find hidden Wi-Fi networks?
Use a WiFi scanner app: There are a number of WiFi scanner apps
available on the Google Play Store, like WiFi Analyzer and Network
Scanner. Once you've installed one of these apps, open it and scan for
networks. The app will show you a list of all the WiFi networks in the
area, including hidden ones.Nov 2, 2022

How To See Hidden Wifi Networks On Android?
Androidphonesoft
https://www.androidphonesoft.com › blog › how-to-se...

<https://www.androidphonesoft.com/blog/how-to-see-hidden-wifi-networks-on-android/>

How do I unhide wireless networks on Android?

There are a few different ways to unhide wireless networks on Android:

1. Use the Settings app to unhide networks.
2. Use a third-party app to unhide networks.
3. Use a custom ROM that includes the ability to unhide networks.

....

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Is there an app to find hidden Wi-Fi networks?

Hi Carlos,

*Do you think appending "_nomap" to your SSID stops it from being*
*uploaded by most phones to Google mothership tracking servers?*

I won't lash into you like I did with nospam, because of two reasons.
1. I think you were trying to be helpful (while nospam was not), and,
2. I know SSID privacy is a hard concept for most people (even adults).

There's so much I know about SSID privacy that most of you, save for
perhaps one or two of the knowledgeable Android folks, don't know.

So I must patiently explain to you the hiding of the SSID is for privacy
from Google, and not privacy from some hacker that wants to know your SSID.

It's not just you, by the way, so I'm _not_ attacking you in the least.
It's not even only nospam. He just doesn't know what he "thinks" he knows.

With that caveat having been openly stated, allow me to ask one question.
(The answer to that question is a yes or no, and it tells me a lot.)

*Do you think appending "_nomap" to your SSID stops it from being*
*uploaded by most phones to Google mothership tracking servers?*

a. Yes?
b. No"
You must pick one.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully help people understand SSID privacy.

In article <tu8395$496b$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
<nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

> *Do you think appending "_nomap" to your SSID stops it from being*
> *uploaded by most phones to Google mothership tracking servers?*

it's uploaded no matter what you call it.

all that does is flag it to not be publicly indexed, and only for
google. other aggregators ignore it entirely.

>
> There's so much I don't know about SSID privacy

ftfy

On 2023-03-07 20:28, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Is there an app to find hidden Wi-Fi networks?
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> *Do you think appending "_nomap" to your SSID stops it from being*
> *uploaded by most phones to Google mothership tracking servers?*

Probably, but that may happen regardless of it being hidden or not.

Unless you are saying that Google (and others) do not map hidden WiFis,
which is not what you said previously. I have no idea what they do in
this case.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> *Do you think appending "_nomap" to your SSID stops it from being*
>> *uploaded by most phones to Google mothership tracking servers?*
>
> Probably, but that may happen regardless of it being hidden or not.
>
> Unless you are saying that Google (and others) do not map hidden WiFis,
> which is not what you said previously. I have no idea what they do in
> this case.

Hi Carlos,

Thank you for answering. I will not chastise you, as I think your intent
was purposefully helpful (unlike nospam's almost sociopathic intent).

I also apologize for having to put you on the spot because I am well aware
almost all people do NOT understand what I understand about hidden SSIDs.

I just wanted you to _learn_ from what I had to teach you. That's all.
I want _everyone_ to learn from what I can teach them, in fact.

And... I want to learn from you!
But, quite unfortunately, the sad fact is that most people are stupid.

For example, every time someone mentions hiding their SSID, people who
don't have a clue what hiding the SSID accomplishes, confuse its purpose.

This is, an example of that happening on the Wigle wardriving group.
<https://wigle.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1983>

It's why I had to say "Jesus Christ" to nospam, whom I had simply assumed
wasn't an idiot when he's so very confident that he knows so much about it.

That's because most people are stupid - like nospam was - because they
assume there's no other reason to hide the SSID other than for security.
*Hiding your SSID is _not_ for security*
*Hiding your SSID is for privacy*

Privacy from whom you may ask...
*Privacy from Google public databases*
*Privacy from Mozilla public databases*
*Privacy from Wigle Wifi Wardriving public databases*
*Privacy from NetStumbler public databases*
*Privacy from Kismac public databases*
*Privacy from Kismet public databases*
*Privacy from DStumbler public databases*
*Privacy from G-Mon public databases*
*Privacy from inSSIDer public databases*
*Privacy from MacStumbler public databases*
*Privacy from NetStumbler public databases*
*Privacy from Pocket Warrior public databases*
*Privacy from Wardrive-Android public databases*
*Privacy from WiFiFoFum public databases*
*Privacy from WiFi-Where public databases*
etc.

So thank you for answering the question instead of trying to evade it.
The answer to the question shows _why_ I hide my SSID on my home APs.

Understanding the nuance of detail takes adult cognitive skills that many
people lack but which I'm patiently attempting to explain to adults here.

A bit of added detail is that it's not only the SSID that I'm trying to
prevent from being uploaded to Google & Mozilla servers, but four things:
1. The SSID
2. The BSSID (unique)
3. The GPS location (extremely unique!)
4. The signal strength

Each of those privacy holes (and more, but those are the big privacy hits)
are uploaded to Google servers whenever someone rude drives by your home.

So how do you stop rude people from giving Google your privacy?
1. The _nomap does NOT prevent the upload by rude Android owners, but,
2. Google & Mozilla are on record for NOT UPLOADING if the SSID is hidden!

Note that we discussed this in gory detail in the past, so I'm not even
going to provide the cites unless you feel that it's not factually correct.

The problem, of course, is that it's not only Google & Mozilla, but Wigle
and NetStumbler, and Wireshark and others "can" upload to _their_ servers.

This _unofficial" discussion implies hiding the SSID works for Wigle too.
<https://wigle.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1655>

This says NetStumbler will also miss all hidden access points:
<https://wigle.net/wiki/index.cgi?Cardinal_Rules_Of_Wardriving_FAQ>

I don't know about passive scanners such as Kismac/Kismet but that implies
same reference implies that they obtain the SSID (which isn't surprising).

The question is whether they _upload_ the SSID to the respective servers.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to patiently explain vast nuance in SSID detail.