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computers / alt.os.linux.mageia / Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system

SubjectAuthor
* Hotmail blocks mail from my systemWilliam Unruh
`* Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my systemAragorn
 +- Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my systemWilliam Unruh
 `* Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my systemTJ
  `* Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my systemWilliam Unruh
   `* Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my systemDaniel65
    `- Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my systemTJ

1
Hotmail blocks mail from my system

<sb022d$os9$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=3858&group=alt.os.linux.mageia#3858

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: unr...@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mageia
Subject: Hotmail blocks mail from my system
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:29:17 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: William Unruh - Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:29 UTC

Microsoft seems to have decided to block mail from my system, so any
domain (like hotmail) cannot get through to the people who use that
system. This keeps happening. Sometimes it goes away and thing behave
normally for a while, and than all emails to their ssytems are blocked.
They never give a reason, they refuse, so I have no idea why I am being
blocked. I have checked my mail logs and there is not unusual traffic
being sent to their systems (or any other).

How do I stop this from happening?

Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system

<20210623222215.7fc0d25c@nx-74205>

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From: thoron...@telenet.be (Aragorn)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mageia
Subject: Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 22:22:15 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Strider
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 by: Aragorn - Wed, 23 Jun 2021 20:22 UTC

On 23.06.2021 at 19:29, William Unruh scribbled:

> Microsoft seems to have decided to block mail from my system, so any
> domain (like hotmail) cannot get through to the people who use that
> system. This keeps happening. Sometimes it goes away and thing behave
> normally for a while, and than all emails to their ssytems are
> blocked. They never give a reason, they refuse, so I have no idea why
> I am being blocked. I have checked my mail logs and there is not
> unusual traffic being sent to their systems (or any other).
>
> How do I stop this from happening?

It is probably related to the domain name of your host, or the general
domain that your IP address is hosted under.

As the administrator of a forum, I often get bounced notification
emails for email addresses belonging to our members. If those members
have subscribed to notifications for a particular thread, or they are
receiving a private message, then the forum software automatically
sends out notification emails. Nothing unusual about that.

Except... Many email hosts — among which Microsoft's Hotmail, GMail and
a few others — are making use of whitelists and blacklists, commonly
compiled by yet another corporate party, and especially in North
America, and it is my experience that it takes only ONE complaint —
for instance from a busybody who doesn't know how to click
the unsubscribe link at the bottom of each notification email — to have
your IP address blacklisted as a source of spam. And once it is
blacklisted at that one corporate overseer, it'll become blacklisted at
all email domains that consult said overseer.

And then you can of course play hide and seek. Have your domain
removed from the blacklist, send out a few more emails, then discover
that somebody has reported you again and that you have been blacklisted
again, and so on.

Our domain does not and has never sent out any spam, and yet I've
already been through the above process a dozen times of having us
whitelisted again and then ending up on the blacklist again a few weeks
later, and so by now I simply don't care anymore. If it's an active
member, then I contact them and tell them that their notifications are
blocked, and if it's an account for someone who hasn't logged on at the
forum anymore in months — not to mention years — then I simply put
their accounts into retirement, which stops the forum software from
sending out any more notifications to their email address.

Welcome to the corporate technocracy.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system

<sb06n5$ojl$1@dont-email.me>

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From: unr...@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mageia
Subject: Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 20:48:37 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: William Unruh - Wed, 23 Jun 2021 20:48 UTC

On 2021-06-23, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
> On 23.06.2021 at 19:29, William Unruh scribbled:
>
>> Microsoft seems to have decided to block mail from my system, so any
>> domain (like hotmail) cannot get through to the people who use that
>> system. This keeps happening. Sometimes it goes away and thing behave
>> normally for a while, and than all emails to their ssytems are
>> blocked. They never give a reason, they refuse, so I have no idea why
>> I am being blocked. I have checked my mail logs and there is not
>> unusual traffic being sent to their systems (or any other).
>>
>> How do I stop this from happening?
>
> It is probably related to the domain name of your host, or the general
> domain that your IP address is hosted under.
>
> As the administrator of a forum, I often get bounced notification
> emails for email addresses belonging to our members. If those members
> have subscribed to notifications for a particular thread, or they are
> receiving a private message, then the forum software automatically
> sends out notification emails. Nothing unusual about that.

I have no lists I send out on, and only one mail list I am on run by my
university. That may have hotmail/msn mail people on it.
>
> Except... Many email hosts — among which Microsoft's Hotmail, GMail and
> a few others — are making use of whitelists and blacklists, commonly
> compiled by yet another corporate party, and especially in North
> America, and it is my experience that it takes only ONE complaint —
> for instance from a busybody who doesn't know how to click

The problem is that MS does not tell you what the reason is. So it is
impossible either to fix anything or track it down.

> the unsubscribe link at the bottom of each notification email — to have
> your IP address blacklisted as a source of spam. And once it is
> blacklisted at that one corporate overseer, it'll become blacklisted at
> all email domains that consult said overseer.
>
> And then you can of course play hide and seek. Have your domain
> removed from the blacklist, send out a few more emails, then discover
> that somebody has reported you again and that you have been blacklisted
> again, and so on.

Yes, I have gone through that.

>
> Our domain does not and has never sent out any spam, and yet I've
> already been through the above process a dozen times of having us
> whitelisted again and then ending up on the blacklist again a few weeks
> later, and so by now I simply don't care anymore. If it's an active
> member, then I contact them and tell them that their notifications are
> blocked, and if it's an account for someone who hasn't logged on at the
> forum anymore in months — not to mention years — then I simply put
> their accounts into retirement, which stops the forum software from
> sending out any more notifications to their email address.
>
> Welcome to the corporate technocracy.
>

Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system

<sb1tur$ll6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: TJ...@noneofyour.business (TJ)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mageia
Subject: Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 08:30:59 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: TJ - Thu, 24 Jun 2021 12:30 UTC

On 6/23/21 4:22 PM, Aragorn wrote:
> On 23.06.2021 at 19:29, William Unruh scribbled:
>
>
> It is probably related to the domain name of your host, or the general
> domain that your IP address is hosted under.
>
> As the administrator of a forum, I often get bounced notification
> emails for email addresses belonging to our members. If those members
> have subscribed to notifications for a particular thread, or they are
> receiving a private message, then the forum software automatically
> sends out notification emails. Nothing unusual about that.
>
> Except... Many email hosts — among which Microsoft's Hotmail, GMail and
> a few others — are making use of whitelists and blacklists, commonly
> compiled by yet another corporate party, and especially in North
> America, and it is my experience that it takes only ONE complaint —
> for instance from a busybody who doesn't know how to click
> the unsubscribe link at the bottom of each notification email — to have
> your IP address blacklisted as a source of spam. And once it is
> blacklisted at that one corporate overseer, it'll become blacklisted at
> all email domains that consult said overseer.
>
In defense of the "busybody," it has long been advised to NOT click on
the "unsubscribe" link in an email that the recipient suspects is spam,
because that tells the spammer they have reached an active email
address,and it will result in even more spam. An analogy is to NEVER
"Press 2" to be removed from a telemarketer's calling list.

It is unfortunate that such affects legitimate sources that follow the
rules, but it is the reality of the situation.

TJ

Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system

<sb20bs$39n$1@dont-email.me>

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From: unr...@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mageia
Subject: Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 13:12:28 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: William Unruh - Thu, 24 Jun 2021 13:12 UTC

On 2021-06-24, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:
> On 6/23/21 4:22 PM, Aragorn wrote:
>> On 23.06.2021 at 19:29, William Unruh scribbled:
>>
>>
>> It is probably related to the domain name of your host, or the general
>> domain that your IP address is hosted under.
>>
>> As the administrator of a forum, I often get bounced notification
>> emails for email addresses belonging to our members. If those members
>> have subscribed to notifications for a particular thread, or they are
>> receiving a private message, then the forum software automatically
>> sends out notification emails. Nothing unusual about that.
>>
>> Except... Many email hosts — among which Microsoft's Hotmail, GMail and
>> a few others — are making use of whitelists and blacklists, commonly
>> compiled by yet another corporate party, and especially in North
>> America, and it is my experience that it takes only ONE complaint —
>> for instance from a busybody who doesn't know how to click
>> the unsubscribe link at the bottom of each notification email — to have
>> your IP address blacklisted as a source of spam. And once it is
>> blacklisted at that one corporate overseer, it'll become blacklisted at
>> all email domains that consult said overseer.
>>
> In defense of the "busybody," it has long been advised to NOT click on
> the "unsubscribe" link in an email that the recipient suspects is spam,
> because that tells the spammer they have reached an active email
> address,and it will result in even more spam. An analogy is to NEVER
> "Press 2" to be removed from a telemarketer's calling list.
>
> It is unfortunate that such affects legitimate sources that follow the
> rules, but it is the reality of the situation.

I agree it is not really the busybody who is at fault, but Microsoft,
who has instituted a system which is overly sensitive, and highly prone
to abuse (Denial of Service attacks) by single individuals.
a) They should NOT be cutting off access because of a single complaint
from a single source.
b) They should be willing to state why access has been cut off, so that
the source can fix whatever the problem was-- perhaps not in detail but
in general at the very least.
c) They shoul make the process of restoration of service easier.
>
> TJ

Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system

<sb4927$sa2$1@dont-email.me>

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From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mageia
Subject: Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:53:10 +1000
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 by: Daniel65 - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:53 UTC

William Unruh wrote on 24/6/21 11:12 pm:
> On 2021-06-24, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:

<Snip>

>> It is unfortunate that such affects legitimate sources that follow the
>> rules, but it is the reality of the situation.
>
> I agree it is not really the busybody who is at fault, but Microsoft,
> who has instituted a system which is overly sensitive, and highly prone
> to abuse (Denial of Service attacks) by single individuals.
> a) They should NOT be cutting off access because of a single complaint
> from a single source.
> b) They should be willing to state why access has been cut off, so that
> the source can fix whatever the problem was-- perhaps not in detail but
> in general at the very least.
> c) They shoul make the process of restoration of service easier.

How come 'they' will close legitimate addresses/accounts for little
reason but seem powerless to stop the SPAM accounts??
--
Daniel

Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system

<sb4m0l$ij3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: TJ...@noneofyour.business (TJ)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mageia
Subject: Re: Hotmail blocks mail from my system
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:34:10 -0400
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 by: TJ - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:34 UTC

On 6/25/21 5:53 AM, Daniel65 wrote:
> William Unruh wrote on 24/6/21 11:12 pm:
>> On 2021-06-24, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:
>
> <Snip>
>
>>> It is unfortunate that such affects legitimate sources that follow the
>>> rules, but it is the reality of the situation.
>>
>> I agree it is not really the busybody who is at fault, but Microsoft,
>> who has instituted a system which is overly sensitive, and highly prone
>> to abuse (Denial of Service attacks) by single individuals.
>> a) They should NOT be cutting off access because of a single complaint
>> from a single source.
>> b) They should be willing to state why access has been cut off, so that
>> the source can fix whatever the problem was-- perhaps not in detail but
>> in general at the very least.
>> c) They shoul make the process of restoration of service easier.
>
> How come 'they' will close legitimate addresses/accounts for little
> reason but seem powerless to stop the SPAM accounts??

But they aren't closing anything, they are being blocked. The receiving
service doesn't have the power to close another's accounts, they can
only block them.

And it isn't just single accounts/addresses, it's everything from the
entire domain. That doesn't stop spammers, because all they have to do
is switch to another domain.

TJ

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