Carlos E.R. wrote:

> The wording ".libre" points to the difference he mentioned «(F-Droid
> version doesn't use Google tools, so most notably, the map functionality
> is hobbled)

Hi Carlos,
Yes. I noticed the _package name_ was different so that's why I said we
should be cautious in concluding anything just yet, especially as I had
never even heard of that app so I can't say anything with any experience.

> And they document it (somewhere).
<https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Inclusion_Policy/>

> Well, you mention in another post that all apps in F-droid have to be
> free. This means that they may have to remove some features or implement
> them differently.

F-Droid calls their rules "FLOSS" (which is where the "Libre" comes in).
"All applications in the repository must be Free, Libre and Open Source
Software (FLOSS) – for example, released under a GPL or Apache license."

Surprisingly, I see they "can" do ads but they have to be done in a certain
way according to a blurb a bit further down in that inclusion document.
"We cannot build apps using proprietary ad libraries.
We have nothing against advertisments (see Anti-Features),
<https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Anti-Features/>
but they must be provided by a FLOSS-compatible way."

These are the 30 apps on F-Droid that have ads in them done that way.
<https://monitor.f-droid.org/anti-feature/Ads>
Half of which are from the same company so it's really only about a dozen.

> For example, I have a rain radar app, which can show the map using the
> google map, or the openstreet map. If the app is in F-droid it will
> probably not use the google map (rain alarm, Michael Diener - Software
> e.K.). Trying to locate the canonical name and failing... I have done
> this in the past, now I can't.

The F-Droid inclusion document says they will not build an app that has
what I'll refer to as "google spyware" incorporated in it, including:
We cannot build apps using Google’s proprietary Play Services
We cannot build apps using proprietary tracking/analytic dependencies
(such as Crashlytics and Firebase)
We cannot build apps using proprietary ad libraries
We cannot build apps requiring Non-Free build tools
(including Oracle’s JDK or some pre-release toolchains)

Although we should note that GSF is allowed, apparently.

In addition:
Source code must be publicly accessible & must be maintained
The app must not download additional executable binaries
without explicit user consent
Those include addons & auto-updates where consent must be opt-in
(where it must not be harder to decline than to accept)
(and it can't be presented in a way users may click w/o reading)
The package_name must be honestly yours
If a fork, it must have a new name
etc.

>> Personally, I don't see how a gallery app can charge given every Android
>> phone comes with one, where we've covered gallery apps in c.m.a before.
>> *Photo gallery app suggestion?* by Carlos on Jul 18, 2018,
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/C3wUHA_CDjs/>
>
> Well, Motorola phones do not have a gallery app.

That's a bummer. My Samsung comes with one but I have never used it.
I just use the one you use from Simple Mobile Tools (from F-Droid).

> I can open the camera, and inside the camera tap bottom-right and it
> will display existing photos. That's the gallery equivalent, but it is
> not a separate app, and functionality is quite limited.

Understood.

You can check if a gallery exists under a motorola name using this:
*App Manager* - Android package manager by Muntashir Akon
A full-featured open source package manager for android.
<https://f-droid.org/packages/io.github.muntashirakon.AppManager/>
<https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager>
<https://muntashirakon.github.io/AppManager/en/>

Just search for "motorola" in that app manager and it will find what may
be hidden (as an app drawer search isn't always foolproof).

That app manager, by the way, is one of the best apps on Android, IMHO.

>> I've never felt the need to purchase any app on Android or on iOS in my
>> life but I'm good at researching apps & I know how to test software.
>
> I have bought some. For instance, OSMand+, I wanted the improvement and
> I feel they do a good job.

Nothing wrong with donating to the OSMAnd+ team, as long as you knew at the
time that OSMAND+ is free if you get it from F-Droid (but not Google Play).

I think you get support for the "paid payware" on Google Play whereas I
don't know if you get support for the OSMAnd+ "free payware" on F-Droid.

Note: Same package name but slightly different icon name OSMAnd~===OSMAnd+
which we covered in gory detail in the past so consider that a summary.

> I remember I also paid for "TPE", a tool to calculate where to put the
> camera so that a mountain opposite is just where the sun or the moon is.
> Very specific software. Saves days of exploration and experimenting. I
> only used it very few times, but it worked.

I couldn't find it on Google Play; but I only looked briefly for it.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=tpe&c=apps>
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=tpe%20camera&c=apps>
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=tpe%20photo&c=apps>
etc.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully add technical value to the topic.

On 2023-03-20 16:17, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> The wording ".libre" points to the difference he mentioned «(F-Droid
>> version doesn't use Google tools, so most notably, the map
>> functionality is hobbled)
>
> Hi Carlos,
> Yes. I noticed the _package name_ was different so that's why I said we
> should be cautious in concluding anything just yet, especially as I had
> never even heard of that app so I can't say anything with any experience.
>
>> And they document it (somewhere).
> <https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Inclusion_Policy/>
>
>> Well, you mention in another post that all apps in F-droid have to be
>> free. This means that they may have to remove some features or
>> implement them differently.
>
> F-Droid calls their rules "FLOSS" (which is where the "Libre" comes in).
> "All applications in the repository must be Free, Libre and Open Source
>  Software (FLOSS) – for example, released under a GPL or Apache license."
>
> Surprisingly, I see they "can" do ads but they have to be done in a certain
> way according to a blurb a bit further down in that inclusion document.
> "We cannot build apps using proprietary ad libraries.  We have nothing
> against advertisments (see Anti-Features),
>  <https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Anti-Features/>
>  but they must be provided by a FLOSS-compatible way."

That's nice.

>
> These are the 30 apps on F-Droid that have ads in them done that way.
> <https://monitor.f-droid.org/anti-feature/Ads>
> Half of which are from the same company so it's really only about a dozen.
>
>> For example, I have a rain radar app, which can show the map using the
>> google map, or the openstreet map. If the app is in F-droid it will
>> probably not use the google map (rain alarm, Michael Diener - Software
>> e.K.). Trying to locate the canonical name and failing... I have done
>> this in the past, now I can't.
>
> The F-Droid inclusion document says they will not build an app that has
> what I'll refer to as "google spyware" incorporated in it, including:
> We cannot build apps using Google’s proprietary Play Services
> We cannot build apps using proprietary tracking/analytic dependencies
>  (such as Crashlytics and Firebase)
> We cannot build apps using proprietary ad libraries
> We cannot build apps requiring Non-Free build tools  (including Oracle’s
> JDK or some pre-release toolchains)
>
> Although we should note that GSF is allowed, apparently.

They are consistent. The problem is that they are proprietary, ie,
closed source, not that they spy or want money.

>
> In addition:
> Source code must be publicly accessible & must be maintained
> The app must not download additional executable binaries   without
> explicit user consent
> Those include addons & auto-updates where consent must be opt-in
>  (where it must not be harder to decline than to accept)
>  (and it can't be presented in a way users may click w/o reading)
> The package_name must be honestly yours If a fork, it must have a new name
> etc.

All fair.

>
>>> Personally, I don't see how a gallery app can charge given every Android
>>> phone comes with one, where we've covered gallery apps in c.m.a before.
>>> *Photo gallery app suggestion?* by Carlos on Jul 18, 2018,
>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/C3wUHA_CDjs/>
>>
>> Well, Motorola phones do not have a gallery app.
>
> That's a bummer. My Samsung comes with one but I have never used it.
> I just use the one you use from Simple Mobile Tools (from F-Droid).

Well, I don't know if Google Photos or Files come preinstalled, because
the automatism to clone the old phone kicked in too early to check.

>> I can open the camera, and inside the camera tap bottom-right and it
>> will display existing photos. That's the gallery equivalent, but it is
>> not a separate app, and functionality is quite limited.
>
> Understood.
> You can check if a gallery exists under a motorola name using this:
> *App Manager* - Android package manager by Muntashir Akon
>  A full-featured open source package manager for android.
> <https://f-droid.org/packages/io.github.muntashirakon.AppManager/>
> <https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager>
> <https://muntashirakon.github.io/AppManager/en/>
>
> Just search for "motorola" in that app manager and it will find what may
> be hidden (as an app drawer search isn't always foolproof).

It doesn't matter, as long as the user doesn't have a tool to see photos
easily.

I know that an older Motorola phone I had (X-play?) definitely did have
a Motorola Gallery app (I can see it in the list of "not installed apps"
in Google Play (marked as "not available for this device).

>
> That app manager, by the way, is one of the best apps on Android, IMHO.
>
>>> I've never felt the need to purchase any app on Android or on iOS in my
>>> life but I'm good at researching apps & I know how to test software.
>>
>> I have bought some. For instance, OSMand+, I wanted the improvement
>> and I feel they do a good job.
>
> Nothing wrong with donating to the OSMAnd+ team, as long as you knew at the
> time that OSMAND+ is free if you get it from F-Droid (but not Google Play).

I didn't, but they didn't piss me :-)

>
> I think you get support for the "paid payware" on Google Play whereas I
> don't know if you get support for the OSMAnd+ "free payware" on F-Droid.
>
> Note: Same package name but slightly different icon name OSMAnd~===OSMAnd+
> which we covered in gory detail in the past so consider that a summary.
>
>> I remember I also paid for "TPE", a tool to calculate where to put the
>> camera so that a mountain opposite is just where the sun or the moon
>> is. Very specific software. Saves days of exploration and
>> experimenting. I only used it very few times, but it worked.
>
> I couldn't find it on Google Play; but I only looked briefly for it.
> <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=tpe&c=apps>
> <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=tpe%20camera&c=apps>
> <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=tpe%20photo&c=apps>
> etc.

Full name "The Photographer's Ephemeris" by "Crookneck Consulting LLC"

https://photoephemeris.com

I don't see the app itself. I suspect that now it is Apple only, there
is a download icon at the bottom. But I certainly have the app in Google
Play.

On Google Play it says:

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crookneckconsulting.tpeandroid>

but then it says "link not found".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In comp.mobile.android, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-03-20 04:10, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> I was (and still am) confused by the description Eli the Bearded gave.
> The wording ".libre" points to the difference he mentioned «(F-Droid
> version doesn't use Google tools, so most notably, the map functionality
> is hobbled)»
>
> And they document it (somewhere).

There are multiple versions with differences documented on Github:

https://github.com/deckerst/aves/wiki/App-Versions

For my purposes, I only care about Play and F-Droid versions.

Elijah
------
open street maps would be nice to have, but non-essential