Have you ever uploaded firmware to a router using tftp?

I am having trouble with uploading firmware and logging into a Netgear
Nighthawk AC1900 Model R7000 router over Ethernet on Windows 10 using
Firefox (version 109.0.1) so I tried 'tftp' but I need to ask for help.
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/r7000.aspx

The first thing I did was press the factory reset button for 7 seconds
which is supposed to make the router go back to its initial conditions.
https://kb.netgear.com/9665/How-do-I-perform-a-factory-reset-on-my-NETGEAR-router

The second thing I did (while I was still on the Internet) was download
and extract the latest firmware which is R7000-V1.0.11.136_10.2.120.chk,
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/r7000.aspx

Given the router is 192.168.1.1, I then set Windows 10 to 192.168.1.x
via the administrator command line after looking up how to do that.
ipconfig /all (The rj45 output is "Ethernet.")
netsh interface ip show interface (The rj45 output is "Ethernet.")
netsh interface ip set address "Ethernet" static 192.168.1.10 255.255.255.0 192.168.1
https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/how-to-configure-a-static-ip-on-windows-10-or-11

I then rebooted the router, waited a minute, and pinged it from Windows.
ping 192.168.1.1

At this point I tried and failed to log into http://192.168.1.1 using
Firefox 109.0.1 so I looked up how to enable tftp on Windows 10.
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/enable-tftp-windows-10

Then I looked up the exact commands for using the Windows 10 tftp
client in the command line to upload the Netgear chk firmware.
tftp -i 192.168.1.1 put R7000-V1.0.11.136_10.2.120.chk
But after a while (couple of minutes) it reported a failure error.
https://kb.netgear.com/000059634/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-TFTP-from-the-Microsoft-Windows-Command-Prompt

There's no log information so I looked for maybe a better tftp client.
This Netgear article seems to be suggesting the free Tftpd64 client.
https://kb.netgear.com/000059633/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-a-TFTP-client-on-Microsoft-Windows

Have you ever uploaded firmware using a Windows tftp client?

Is that tftpd64 client the one that you suggest I try next?
https://pjo2.github.io/tftpd64/

On 2/3/2023 6:01 PM, Incubus wrote:
> Have you ever uploaded firmware to a router using tftp?
>
> I am having trouble with uploading firmware and logging into a Netgear
> Nighthawk AC1900 Model R7000 router over Ethernet on Windows 10 using Firefox (version 109.0.1) so I tried 'tftp' but I need to ask for help.
> https://www.netgear.com/support/product/r7000.aspx
>
> The first thing I did was press the factory reset button for 7 seconds which is supposed to make the router go back to its initial conditions.
> https://kb.netgear.com/9665/How-do-I-perform-a-factory-reset-on-my-NETGEAR-router
>
> The second thing I did (while I was still on the Internet) was download
> and extract the latest firmware which is R7000-V1.0.11.136_10.2.120.chk,
> https://www.netgear.com/support/product/r7000.aspx
>
> Given the router is 192.168.1.1, I then set Windows 10 to 192.168.1.x via the administrator command line after looking up how to do that.
> ipconfig /all (The rj45 output is "Ethernet.")
> netsh interface ip show interface (The rj45 output is "Ethernet.")
> netsh interface ip set address "Ethernet" static 192.168.1.10 255.255.255.0 192.168.1 https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/how-to-configure-a-static-ip-on-windows-10-or-11
>
> I then rebooted the router, waited a minute, and pinged it from Windows.
> ping 192.168.1.1
>
> At this point I tried and failed to log into http://192.168.1.1 using
> Firefox 109.0.1 so I looked up how to enable tftp on Windows 10.
> https://www.thewindowsclub.com/enable-tftp-windows-10
>
> Then I looked up the exact commands for using the Windows 10 tftp
> client in the command line to upload the Netgear chk firmware.
> tftp -i 192.168.1.1 put R7000-V1.0.11.136_10.2.120.chk
> But after a while (couple of minutes) it reported a failure error.
> https://kb.netgear.com/000059634/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-TFTP-from-the-Microsoft-Windows-Command-Prompt
>
> There's no log information so I looked for maybe a better tftp client.
> This Netgear article seems to be suggesting the free Tftpd64 client.
> https://kb.netgear.com/000059633/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-a-TFTP-client-on-Microsoft-Windows
>
> Have you ever uploaded firmware using a Windows tftp client?
>
> Is that tftpd64 client the one that you suggest I try next?
> https://pjo2.github.io/tftpd64/
>
>

Start : Run : Control
Programs and Features
Windows Features
Tick the "TFTP Client" box, then wait

I can see that on Windows 11 Home, and Win10 Pro.

That will download and install a tftp for you.
And, it will come from Microsoft and be trusted,
because the package will be signed with SHA2.

Paul

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 23:01:09 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Have you ever uploaded firmware to a router using tftp?

I would abandon that plan for your Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 Model R7000
and use http instead. Tftp is going to be problematic for you, while the
router's GUI makes firmware updates extremely easy.

Use a web browser and log into the router by visiting one of the
following destinations:

http://192.168.1.1
http://www.routerlogin.net
http://www.routerlogin.com

The user name is admin. The password is the one that you specified the
first time that you logged in. (If this is your first login after doing
a factory reset, you'll be prompted to set a new password.) The user
name and password are case-sensitive.

Next, browse to ADVANCED > Administration > Router Update, and press the
Check button. The router will look for an updated firmware and offer to
download it for you. Alternatively, if you've already downloaded the
firmware that you'd like to use, click the Browse button on that page
and navigate to the downloaded firmware. Upload the new firmware to the
router and apply it.

The R7000 User Manual and other documents are located here:
https://www.netgear.com/support/download/?model=R7000

On 2023-02-04, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> Start : Run : Control
> Programs and Features
> Windows Features
> Tick the "TFTP Client" box, then wait
>
> I can see that on Windows 11 Home, and Win10 Pro.
>
> That will download and install a tftp for you.
> And, it will come from Microsoft and be trusted,
> because the package will be signed with SHA2.

I solved it but I can't really say what specific action solved it because
almost everything made no sense because it all "should" have been working.

I had two main problems, one of which is the router stopped accepting the
login/password for reasons unknown to me and the second was that as a
result of that first problem (which had nothing to do with Firefox), I did
a (whole bunch of) factory resets to try to log into the router, but that's
when the Firefox wouldn't let me log in and wouldn't let me choose to not
worry about the lack of a bona fide certificate either.

The solution should have come to me sooner, which was to use SRWare Iron
(I didn't try any other browser than Iron so others may have worked also).

It's definitely a problem with Firefox though as there was ANOTHER problem
which only showed up with Firefox, which was that I couldn't hit the
"Apply" button whenever I changed some settings in Firfox, and yet I could
hit that same "Apply" button when I switched to SRWare Iron to do it.

It could be my Firefox settings though, but what happened was a dialog box
asking for an "OK" popped up in SRWare Iron, but not in Firefox.

I suspect it was something similar that prevented me from logging in also.
But I don't know for sure why SRWARe Iron worked with http://192.168.1.1
but Firefox would never let me log in when I used a http://192.168.1.1 url.

In the end, I was able to flash the latest firmware from what appears to be
from 12/13/1020 (R7000-V1.0.11.100_10.2.100.chk) to what is now version
R7000-V1.0.11.136_10.2.120.chk from what appears to be 7/29/2022 based on
these two reference urls I found in the Netgear download support site.
(https://kb.netgear.com/000061805/R7000-Firmware-Version-1-0-11-100)
(https://kb.netgear.com/000065079/R7000-Firmware-Version-1-0-11-136)

I tried flashing it using the Windows tftp procedure described here.
(https://kb.netgear.com/000059634/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-TFTP-from-the-Microsoft-Windows-Command-Prompt)
but what finally worked was when I switched to a different tftp client.
(https://kb.netgear.com/000059633/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-a-TFTP-client-on-Microsoft-Windows)

If you read those links, you'll see it takes a bit of delicate swearing
at just the right moment to ensure that all goes well without bricking.

The great news is that after a few hours of repeating the same steps
over and over and over (which is the definition of insanity anywhere
else other than with routers), when I switched to SRWare Iron, things
began working right because the hidden dialog boxes were popping up.

I don't blame Firefox because I'm sure I changed settings here and there
based on what was suggested in this newsgroup in the past, but what I will
do next time is switch browsers and tftp clients sooner than I did today.

On 4/2/2023 10:53 am, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 23:01:09 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Have you ever uploaded firmware to a router using tftp?
>
> I would abandon that plan for your Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 Model R7000
> and use http instead. Tftp is going to be problematic for you, while the
> router's GUI makes firmware updates extremely easy.

The firmware recovery mode of most routers uses tftp only, I believe.

On 2023-02-04, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> Use a web browser and log into the router by visiting one of the
> following destinations:
>
> http://192.168.1.1
> http://www.routerlogin.net
> http://www.routerlogin.com

The problem I was having turned out to be, I think, that Firefox was hiding
the dialog box which required an interaction from me, but SRWare Iron
showed it. Without that dialog box, I couldn't log in with Firefox.

> The user name is admin. The password is the one that you specified the
> first time that you logged in. (If this is your first login after doing
> a factory reset, you'll be prompted to set a new password.) The user
> name and password are case-sensitive.

Since the first thing I did was press the reset button for seven seconds to
factory reset, the IP, login & password should have been standardized.
IP = 192.168.1.1, Login = admin, Password = password

The problem was the lack of the "s" in http because the router insisted on
requiring a certificate but Firefox wouldn't let me say OK to anything.

> Next, browse to ADVANCED > Administration > Router Update, and press the
> Check button. The router will look for an updated firmware and offer to
> download it for you.

The advantage of tftp is that you don't need to log into the router.
So that's why I used tftp because I couldn't log into the router.

I was hoping the latest firmware would help, but I did so many things
that I'm not sure in the end analysis what exactly made it finally work.

> Alternatively, if you've already downloaded the
> firmware that you'd like to use, click the Browse button on that page
> and navigate to the downloaded firmware. Upload the new firmware to the
> router and apply it.

Two hardware questions that came up in this effort are about the USB ports
and about the lack of an Ethernet port on my thin laptop.

For the Ethernet port, is there a way to convert the USB-A or USB-C or HDMI
port into an Ethernet port so that I could have used that to log in?

And for the two USB ports on the router, one is USB 2.0 and the other is
USB 3.0 where I seem to recall a security threat on them years ago.

Is it safe nowadays to put a USB stick into one of those two router ports
so that I can access files from the Internet or is it still too dangerous?

On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 03:46:06 -0000 (UTC), in alt.comp.os.windows-10,
Incubus wrote:

[snip]

>I don't blame Firefox because I'm sure I changed settings here and there
>based on what was suggested in this newsgroup in the past, but what I will
>do next time is switch browsers and tftp clients sooner than I did today.

You can always try a fresh profile in Firefox. You can do this easily by
pulling up about:support in the URL-bar and clicking the "Refresh
Firefox..." button. After you do this, "HTTPS-only" will be off by
default, and all your other settings will be default as well.

If it doesn't help you, you can choose your old profile again by
launching Firefox with the -P switch, which is the Profile Manager.

You can also just set up a test profile from the Profile Manger as well.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On 2/3/2023 10:55 PM, Incubus wrote:

> Two hardware questions that came up in this effort are about the USB ports and about the lack of an Ethernet port on my thin laptop.
>
> For the Ethernet port, is there a way to convert the USB-A or USB-C or HDMI port into an Ethernet port so that I could have used that to log in?

A company named ASIX makes USB to Ethernet chips. There is
a USB2 version of chip and a USB3 version of chip. The USB3 version
would be the more flexible version.

Then, another company, like Trendnet, makes the plastic USB casing for
the adapter, with the ASIX chip inside. On the support web page, the
driver name may have AX88179 as part of the filename, which is the
ASIX Ethernet chip. There will be more than one company packaging up
the ASIX chip and an RJ45 connector.

https://www.trendnet.com/products/usb-adapter/usb-3.0-to-gigabit-adapter-TU3-ETG-v2

Mine has a white plastic casing. I use it, if needing to set up a
two Ethernet ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) setup. It's real handy
to just plug in the adapter and have another Ethernet to work with.

I also keep a Realtek 8139 network card here. This is reserved for
OSes which are so crusty, that's the kind of networking card they
support. Needless to say, I do not need that card too often, but
it has come in handy occasionally when other stuff just would not work.
Some OpenSolaris thing I tried, that's what I had to go get and
plug in.

>
> And for the two USB ports on the router, one is USB 2.0 and the other is USB 3.0 where I seem to recall a security threat on them years ago.
>
> Is it safe nowadays to put a USB stick into one of those two router ports
> so that I can access files from the Internet or is it still too dangerous?

There are stories about sharing from the router being exploited too.
You have to check in Google, whether your router has a known issue with
this or not.

Just about anything that opens the NAT shielding on your IPV4
router, is a bad idea. Whether it is Port Forwarding to a designated
machine inside your LAN, or it is the Port Forwarding that makes
the USB stick visible from the WAN.

Sharing your NAS outside on the WAN, is also a bad idea. With Shodan
around, snooping is practically automated, and your "secrets" don't
stay secret for very long.

Paul

On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 03:55:22 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 2023-02-04, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> Use a web browser and log into the router by visiting one of the
>> following destinations:
>>
>> http://192.168.1.1
>> http://www.routerlogin.net
>> http://www.routerlogin.com
>
>The problem I was having turned out to be, I think, that Firefox was hiding
>the dialog box which required an interaction from me, but SRWare Iron
>showed it. Without that dialog box, I couldn't log in with Firefox.

That sounds like a Firefox misconfiguration. Correcting that, or using
any other browser, should have worked.

>The problem was the lack of the "s" in http because the router insisted on
>requiring a certificate but Firefox wouldn't let me say OK to anything.

I don't think the router redirected you to https. The user manual says
nothing about https and instructs the user to use http. Grab a copy of
curl, or whatever tool you like, and see if the router is issuing an
http redirect to https. I think you'll find that it's not. Instead, it's
almost certainly a misconfigured Firefox, especially since you grabbed a
second browser and it worked.

>Two hardware questions that came up in this effort are about the USB ports
>and about the lack of an Ethernet port on my thin laptop.
>
>For the Ethernet port, is there a way to convert the USB-A or USB-C or HDMI
>port into an Ethernet port so that I could have used that to log in?

USB-C is easily adapted to Ethernet, but I'd remind you that WiFi works
just fine. Yes, I know what the manual recommends but that doesn't
change anything. You could have been using WiFi all along.

>And for the two USB ports on the router, one is USB 2.0 and the other is
>USB 3.0 where I seem to recall a security threat on them years ago.
>
>Is it safe nowadays to put a USB stick into one of those two router ports
>so that I can access files from the Internet or is it still too dangerous?

There's nothing inherently dangerous about the router's USB ports or a
USB stick. The dangerous part is exposing your files to the Internet,
just as the dangerous part is exposing the router's admin interface to
the Internet. I wouldn't advise doing either of those things.

Incubus wrote:

> Have you ever uploaded firmware to a router using tftp?

Yes, but with the tftp server on Windows and the router as the client.

<https://pjo2.github.io/tftpd64/>

Char Jackson wrote:

> Incubus wrote:
>
>> I think, that Firefox was hiding the dialog box which required an
>> interaction from me, but SRWare Iron showed it. Without that dialog
>> box, I couldn't log in with Firefox.
>
> That sounds like a Firefox misconfiguration. Correcting that, or using
> any other browser, should have worked.

In general I agree ... if you do anything (such as adblock, disabling
javascript, changing settings like force https, etc) you have to be
alert to the possibility that if something breaks, it's you that have
broken it, and e.g. try firefox with a totally clean profile before
blaming the router.

On 2023-02-04 04:46, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-02-04, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

....

> It could be my Firefox settings though, but what happened was a dialog box
> asking for an "OK" popped up in SRWare Iron, but not in Firefox.

Maybe you had popups disabled in FF. That thing has hit me as well.

There is some other setting that will display a message bar at the top
saying that "Firefox prevented the page from opening a pop up", and also
displays a setting to change that. Like allowing popups on a certain site.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-02-04, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>> I think, that Firefox was hiding the dialog box which required an
>>> interaction from me, but SRWare Iron showed it. Without that dialog
>>> box, I couldn't log in with Firefox.
>>
>> That sounds like a Firefox misconfiguration. Correcting that, or using
>> any other browser, should have worked.
>
> In general I agree ... if you do anything (such as adblock, disabling
> javascript, changing settings like force https, etc) you have to be
> alert to the possibility that if something breaks, it's you that have
> broken it, and e.g. try firefox with a totally clean profile before
> blaming the router.

You are smarter than I am. But I regret what I just did to test you out.

In one way was just happy the ordeal was over, since the router went from
being bricked to being unable to log in to working but without popups and
then, finally, to reflashing and then working just fine outside Firefox.

I think you're all right the more I think about what happened, and, to test
you all out, I actually made another huge mistake - and then regretted it!

I reset the router back to factory defaults, and tried again, and that's
where I realized the problem was in the beginning when I noted that I could
only access the unsecured http://192.168.1.1 once, and thereafter, not.

Remember I posted this screenshot showing the original firefox login issue?
https://i.postimg.cc/Vs3wPhqC/Screenshot-48.png

Notice that screenshot was taken at 9:09 am yesterday morning.

I didn't post this in the first opening post because I didn't realize how
important this screenshot below was, which is really telling me the issue.
https://i.postimg.cc/5tNdmWVZ/Screenshot-49.png

Notice that screenshot was taken at 8:51am yesterday.

The significance didn't occur to me until I pondered what you are saying.

In actuality, the sequence of events in Firefox was 49 happens before 48.
That is, the login to http://192.168.1.1 actually works perfectly fine!

In fact, EVERY FIRST LOGIN to that unsecured IP address worked perfectly!
(It's only what happened _after_ that login, where failures occurred.)

This important observation escaped me, until I re-tested things today.
It's only slowly dawning upon me what actually transpired yesterday.

What I think happened, and I just tested it again, much to my regret,
is the login to http://192.168.1.1 works fine, but the _next_ page
(for whatever reason) requires the http(s) instead.

At that point, I suspect, some kind of Firefox protection (which I probably
instituted long ago, I'm not going to deny I mess with the settings),
prevented that _second_ page from doing whatever it wanted to do.

Only later, when the same kind of thing happened when I unchecked the
router settings to broadcast the SSID did I then realize (by using Iron)
that it was a hidden "OK" button that was preventing the next step.

All that is well and good, but what happened when I reset the router
back to factory defaults just now is that it requested a new password.

No big deal, I thought. I'll just use the same 8-character password
it took yesterday before I had upgraded the firmware with tftp clients.

Oh no! You can't do that! It _must_ now be a 10-character password,
along with a whole bunch of other upper/lower case requirements.

Notice what happened, which is a _direct_ result of me resetting to factory
defaults? Now I can't use the same password I've used on my other routers!

[1] Yesterday I set the router to factory defaults
[2] When I finally logged in with Iron, I set the same old password
[3] At some point yesterday, I flashed to the latest router firmware
[4] Many times I logged in - and the old 8-character password worked

Unbeknownst to me, the new firmware _allowed_ the old password but the new
firmware doesn't allow you to _set_ an old password after a factory reset.

So now, of all my routers, this one router has a different password.
All because I tried to test what you were nicely telling me all along.

I should have just listened to you instead of testing it out for myself.

On 2023-02-04, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> A company named ASIX makes USB to Ethernet chips. There is
> a USB2 version of chip and a USB3 version of chip. The USB3 version
> would be the more flexible version.

I like it! Thank you very much for that wonderful suggestion!
https://www.amazon.it/TRENDnet-TU3-ETG-Adattatore-USB-3-0/dp/B00FFJ0RKE/

That $22 part can give my "thin" laptop Ethernet but what I'd like to ask
you to help me understand is how USB3 will be more flexible than USB2.

I won't know ahead of time if any given USB port will be USB2 or USB3,
so if it "only" works with USB3 ports, isn't it _less_ flexible?

On the other hand, if it works with _both_ USB2 and USB3 ports when it says
in the description that it's a USB3 device, then it _is_ more flexible.

But that's why I'm confused.
Does that handy USB3-to-Ethernet device _also_ work with USB2 ports?

>> Is it safe nowadays to put a USB stick into one of those two router ports
>> so that I can access files from the Internet or is it still too dangerous?
>
> There are stories about sharing from the router being exploited too.
> You have to check in Google, whether your router has a known issue with
> this or not.

Good advice. I always take people up on any good advice they suggest.

Unfortunately, I'm "mad" at you for suggesting that advice, but only
because I found out exactly what I did NOT want to find out about it!

The router is a Netgear R7000 which uses what they call "ReadySHARE",
which is implicated in the NetUSB flaw based on this Netgear flaw page.
http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28393

Luckily, DD-WRT isn't implicated, so I could solve this problem by
flashing DD-WRT. But Netgear says their latest firmware fixes it.
10/07/2019 CVE vulnerability: CVE-2015-3036.

> Just about anything that opens the NAT shielding on your IPV4
> router, is a bad idea.

I don't remember the flaw from long ago so I googled for what it may be.

This first article I found says it's in ReadySHARE (also known as NetUSB)
which incorporates the KCodes NetUSB software which has the flaw in it.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2938477/the-netusb-router-flaw-part-2-detection-and-mitigation.html
Which says "You can't tell if a router is vulnerable from its specs."

> Whether it is Port Forwarding to a designated
> machine inside your LAN, or it is the Port Forwarding that makes
> the USB stick visible from the WAN.

Googling further, I seem to remember a WAN flaw (open to the Internet), and
not just a LAN flaw as the ReadyShare/NetUSB flaw above first seems to be.

Something like this is a LAN flaw only, but that's in an Archer router.
https://www.tenable.com/security/research/tra-2020-60
"When a USB drive is plugged into the router, several services boot up to
share the contents of the drive. By default, SMB, FTP, and DLNA all boot
up. If an attacker were to craft the USB drive contents such that it
contains symbolic links to locations on disk, these symbolic links can be
followed using the appropriate client."

Googling more, I see the Readyshare/NetUSB flaw also affects the WAN.
https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2022/01/11/home-routers-with-netusb-support-could-have-critical-kernel-hole/

> Sharing your NAS outside on the WAN, is also a bad idea. With Shodan
> around, snooping is practically automated, and your "secrets" don't
> stay secret for very long.

For now, even after Googling, I can't tell if there are known flaws
in USB implementation on a router, so I'll assume they've all been fixed.
https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/netusb-flaw-touches-26-router-makers-a-8246

Since this router has both a USB3 and USB2 port, which would you use?

On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 11:51:00 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/2/2023 10:53 am, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 23:01:09 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you ever uploaded firmware to a router using tftp?
>>
>> I would abandon that plan for your Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 Model R7000
>> and use http instead. Tftp is going to be problematic for you, while the
>> router's GUI makes firmware updates extremely easy.
>
>The firmware recovery mode of most routers uses tftp only, I believe.

Whatever it uses, I've always logged in by using https and
telling it to update using a firmware file I've previously
downloaded(and checked the SHA256).
Exactly as Char Jackson described.
Any browser I've tried (Firefox, Palemoon, even the old M$
bug-ridden offer) works.
Been doing this for well over a decade.
I don't trust the router to "update itself". It might have
been hacked and download something nasty.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021

On 2/4/2023 2:40 PM, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-02-04, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> A company named ASIX makes USB to Ethernet chips. There is
>> a USB2 version of chip and a USB3 version of chip. The USB3 version
>> would be the more flexible version.
>
> I like it! Thank you very much for that wonderful suggestion!
> https://www.amazon.it/TRENDnet-TU3-ETG-Adattatore-USB-3-0/dp/B00FFJ0RKE/
>
> That $22 part can give my "thin" laptop Ethernet but what I'd like to ask
> you to help me understand is how USB3 will be more flexible than USB2.
>
> I won't know ahead of time if any given USB port will be USB2 or USB3, so if it "only" works with USB3 ports, isn't it _less_ flexible?
>
> On the other hand, if it works with _both_ USB2 and USB3 ports when it says
> in the description that it's a USB3 device, then it _is_ more flexible.
>
> But that's why I'm confused.
> Does that handy USB3-to-Ethernet device _also_ work with USB2 ports?
>
>>> Is it safe nowadays to put a USB stick into one of those two router ports
>>> so that I can access files from the Internet or is it still too dangerous?
>>
>> There are stories about sharing from the router being exploited too.
>> You have to check in Google, whether your router has a known issue with
>> this or not.
>
> Good advice. I always take people up on any good advice they suggest.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm "mad" at you for suggesting that advice, but only
> because I found out exactly what I did NOT want to find out about it!
>
> The router is a Netgear R7000 which uses what they call "ReadySHARE", which is implicated in the NetUSB flaw based on this Netgear flaw page.
> http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28393
>
> Luckily, DD-WRT isn't implicated, so I could solve this problem by flashing DD-WRT. But Netgear says their latest firmware fixes it.
> 10/07/2019 CVE vulnerability: CVE-2015-3036.
>
>> Just about anything that opens the NAT shielding on your IPV4
>> router, is a bad idea.
>
> I don't remember the flaw from long ago so I googled for what it may be.
>
> This first article I found says it's in ReadySHARE (also known as NetUSB)
> which incorporates the KCodes NetUSB software which has the flaw in it.
>
> https://www.computerworld.com/article/2938477/the-netusb-router-flaw-part-2-detection-and-mitigation.html
> Which says "You can't tell if a router is vulnerable from its specs."
>
>> Whether it is Port Forwarding to a designated
>> machine inside your LAN, or it is the Port Forwarding that makes
>> the USB stick visible from the WAN.
>
> Googling further, I seem to remember a WAN flaw (open to the Internet), and
> not just a LAN flaw as the ReadyShare/NetUSB flaw above first seems to be.
>
> Something like this is a LAN flaw only, but that's in an Archer router.
> https://www.tenable.com/security/research/tra-2020-60
> "When a USB drive is plugged into the router, several services boot up to
> share the contents of the drive. By default, SMB, FTP, and DLNA all boot
> up. If an attacker were to craft the USB drive contents such that it
> contains symbolic links to locations on disk, these symbolic links can be
> followed using the appropriate client."
>
> Googling more, I see the Readyshare/NetUSB flaw also affects the WAN.
> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2022/01/11/home-routers-with-netusb-support-could-have-critical-kernel-hole/
>
>> Sharing your NAS outside on the WAN, is also a bad idea. With Shodan
>> around, snooping is practically automated, and your "secrets" don't
>> stay secret for very long.
>
> For now, even after Googling, I can't tell if there are known flaws
> in USB implementation on a router, so I'll assume they've all been fixed.
> https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/netusb-flaw-touches-26-router-makers-a-8246
>
> Since this router has both a USB3 and USB2 port, which would you use?

USB3 ports on computers, have nine pins, and work in USB2 mode
or USB3 mode.

Peripherals have nine pins as well. The TrendNet plugged into a USB2 port
still works. It can run at GbE rate... but the USB2 connector makes a
35MB/sec limitation and you won't get 112MB/sec file transfers. The USB3
network device then, works with both USB2 and USB3 ports. Via the properties
of the device, you may be able to switch it to 10/100BT, but I haven't tried.
Using a four wire Ethernet cable, will also force the connection to 10/100BT.
If just 1,2,3,6 are wired up on an RJ45, that is 10/100BT mode.

USB2 ASIX chip = 10/100BT mode, no GbE (12MB/sec ethernet, 35MB/sec max phy)
USB3 ASIX chip = GbE or less, (112MB/sec GbE, 35MB/sec GbE on USB2, 12MB/sec 10/100BT mode)

I would have to check the R7000 manual, to figure out what the difference
is between the two USB connectors. They could be special purpose or general purpose.

On this web page, the USB stick goes in the front (USB3) port.

https://kb.netgear.com/24060/How-do-I-connect-a-USB-drive-to-my-Nighthawk-router

Paul

On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 16:55:40 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

>On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 11:51:00 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
><toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 4/2/2023 10:53 am, Char Jackson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 23:01:09 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you ever uploaded firmware to a router using tftp?
>>>
>>> I would abandon that plan for your Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 Model R7000
>>> and use http instead. Tftp is going to be problematic for you, while the
>>> router's GUI makes firmware updates extremely easy.
>>
>>The firmware recovery mode of most routers uses tftp only, I believe.
>
> Whatever it uses, I've always logged in by using https and
>telling it to update using a firmware file I've previously
>downloaded(and checked the SHA256).
> Exactly as Char Jackson described.
> Any browser I've tried (Firefox, Palemoon, even the old M$
>bug-ridden offer) works.
> Been doing this for well over a decade.
> I don't trust the router to "update itself". It might have
>been hacked and download something nasty.
> []'s

Hey buddy, good to see you still posting.

On 2023-02-05, <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

> Afaics(or know)...not a single one of the 4 browsers I have(Edge, Chrome,
> Firefox and SeaMonkey - all latest version) support using https to logon
> to my Netgear Nighthawk AC 1900 Model 7000 router.

Thank you for looking. I didn't know anything about this until this week.

I think this whole https thing is a Netgear-only encumbrance which Netgear
seems to have inserted into the initial login process that occurs only once
- which is the first login after you perform the 7-second factory reset.

If that assumption is correct, it was the inserted Netgear software that
was trying to get to an http(s) server in order to set these options.
https://i.postimg.cc/5tNdmWVZ/Screenshot-49.png

I think you only get that page once which happens at your first login after
a factory reset, so you wouldn't normally see this page in normal logins.

Pressing any button on that initial one-time-only page above is what brings
you to an https link of https://www.routerlogin.net/genie_index.htm
https://i.postimg.cc/Vs3wPhqC/Screenshot-48.png

I don't think that https page pops up at any other time, but since I had
just reset the router and since I was logging into the router firmware to
set it up, I was stopped cold at that web page when I first posted this.

> Note: There are some business branded Netgear router's that have a option
> to 'Always use HTTPS to access router'
> - A KB article indicates that the KB does(may?) apply to AC 1900 R7000
> but....no such setting to 'always use https to access router' exists in
> this(my) Nighthawk.

Thank you for clarifying that no such https setting exists in your R7000.

I've seen similar "web server" settings in some routers but as you said,
it's usually the better non consumer routers that have web server setups.

Here's a user guide for one of those. Look on page 49 in "Chapter 7
Services" showing a graphic with a "Secure Server Port" default of "443"
and an "Enabled" check box for "Secure Connection HTTPS" on by default.
https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airOS/airOS_UG.pdf

> A quick look at R7000 1900 manuals - all indicate as you noted - http or
> ip address - is the correct route - no mention of those same urls for
> using https.

Thank you for looking into the Netgear R7000 manual, which I had also read
at the time I was trying to log in and it said nothing about this problem.

I had initially searched the Netgear KB before asking here for help.

I learned a lot but what I learned about tftp was that almost all my
initial assumptions about tftp were wrong, I think in that I didn't realize
that you can't actually "log in" using tftp. I think.

When I posted this thread, my plan was to log into the R7000 with tftp
because I couldn't log into the router with http://192.168.1.1 because
that one-time-only login referenced that https page, which Firefox wouldn't
bring up the OK boxes to get past that Netgear inserted encumbrance.

But now that I've used tftp once, I think tftp does NOT log into the
router. It just pushes new firmware to the router WITHOUT a log in.

Is that correct that tftp only moves files but can't log into the router?
(Isn't that a potential security hole if somehow someone has tftp access?)

On 2023-02-05 17:11, Incubus wrote:
> When I posted this thread, my plan was to log into the R7000 with tftp
> because I couldn't log into the router with http://192.168.1.1 because
> that one-time-only login referenced that https page, which Firefox wouldn't
> bring up the OK boxes to get past that Netgear inserted encumbrance.
>
> But now that I've used tftp once, I think tftp does NOT log into the
> router. It just pushes new firmware to the router WITHOUT a log in.

tftp doesn't push. It sits there, waiting. It is the client, ie, the
router, who asks to download something from a tftp server (typically any
one in the LAN).

AFAIK there is no login/pass in the protocol. Insecure.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2/5/2023 2:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-05 17:11, Incubus wrote:
>> When I posted this thread, my plan was to log into the R7000 with tftp
>> because I couldn't log into the router with http://192.168.1.1 because
>> that one-time-only login referenced that https page, which Firefox wouldn't
>> bring up the OK boxes to get past that Netgear inserted encumbrance.
>>
>> But now that I've used tftp once, I think tftp does NOT log into the
>> router. It just pushes new firmware to the router WITHOUT a log in.
>
> tftp doesn't push. It sits there, waiting. It is the client, ie, the router, who asks to download something from a tftp server (typically any one in the LAN).
>
> AFAIK there is no login/pass in the protocol. Insecure.
>

https://kb.netgear.com/000059633/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-a-TFTP-client-on-Microsoft-Windows

"Turn your router back on.

Wait for the Power LED to light orange and start flashing.

When the Power LED is flashing, click Put in Tftpd64 to initiate the firmware upload.
^^^
The upload might take a few minutes.

If the firmware upload is successful, a dialog box appears to confirm the
blocks transferred, with a 0 block retransmitted message and a MD5 checksum.
If the firmware upload fails, repeat steps 8-11.
"

This means the router has a TFTP daemon that runs during boot up.
If an incoming TFTP connection is detected, the router knows
you are attempting to "put" a file to it. That file, as long
as certain details of it check out, will then be accepted.

Using the client tftp program which is part of Windows,
would do the same thing.

*******

The thing that threw me off, is TFTPD64 is actually a dual mode program.
It contains a server daemon, as well as a TFTP client. Normally, you
only name daemons with the letter D and my assumption was that the program
was purely a TFTP server (a TFTPD).

It is running in client mode, as described in the procedure.

Paul

On 2023-02-05 21:13, Paul wrote:
> On 2/5/2023 2:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-02-05 17:11, Incubus wrote:
>>> When I posted this thread, my plan was to log into the R7000 with tftp
>>> because I couldn't log into the router with http://192.168.1.1 because
>>> that one-time-only login referenced that https page, which Firefox
>>> wouldn't
>>> bring up the OK boxes to get past that Netgear inserted encumbrance.
>>>
>>> But now that I've used tftp once, I think tftp does NOT log into the
>>> router. It just pushes new firmware to the router WITHOUT a log in.
>>
>> tftp doesn't push. It sits there, waiting. It is the client, ie, the
>> router, who asks to download something from a tftp server (typically
>> any one in the LAN).
>>
>> AFAIK there is no login/pass in the protocol. Insecure.
>>
>
> https://kb.netgear.com/000059633/How-do-I-upload-firmware-to-my-NETGEAR-router-using-a-TFTP-client-on-Microsoft-Windows
>
>     "Turn your router back on.
>
>      Wait for the Power LED to light orange and start flashing.
>
>      When the Power LED is flashing, click Put in Tftpd64 to initiate
> the firmware upload.
>                                            ^^^
>      The upload might take a few minutes.
>
>      If the firmware upload is successful, a dialog box appears to
> confirm the
>      blocks transferred, with a 0 block retransmitted message and a MD5
> checksum.
>      If the firmware upload fails, repeat steps 8-11.
>     "
>
> This means the router has a TFTP daemon that runs during boot up.
> If an incoming TFTP connection is detected, the router knows
> you are attempting to "put" a file to it. That file, as long
> as certain details of it check out, will then be accepted.

Ok.

Yes, the client can "put" a file on the tftp server, or get a file. The
server doesn't initiate anything.

>
> Using the client tftp program which is part of Windows,
> would do the same thing.
>
> *******
>
> The thing that threw me off, is TFTPD64 is actually a dual mode program.
> It contains a server daemon, as well as a TFTP client. Normally, you
> only name daemons with the letter D and my assumption was that the program
> was purely a TFTP server (a TFTPD).
>
> It is running in client mode, as described in the procedure.
>
>    Paul

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 16:11:27 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I think this whole https thing is a Netgear-only encumbrance which Netgear
>seems to have inserted into the initial login process that occurs only once
>- which is the first login after you perform the 7-second factory reset.

If one browser wants to use https, against your wishes, and other
browsers work fine with http, then logically it's that one browser.

If all browsers try to switch to https after you've tried to use http,
then it might be the router itself, but that seems unlikely. Doing so
would require an HTTP Redirect, probably a 301 or 302 response code.

Browsers normally follow redirects transparently, which is why I
suggested using curl to see what's happening. By default, curl does not
follow redirects. It simply reports them to you and then it stops.

Here's what I get when I try to access my home router. The text below
consists of 3 main parts:

1. the command that I'm entering at the command prompt
curl -v http://192.168.11.1

2. the command that curl is sending to the router
* Rebuilt URL to: http://192.168.11.1/
* Trying 192.168.11.1...
* TCP_NODELAY set
* Connected to 192.168.11.1 (192.168.11.1) port 80 (#0)
> GET / HTTP/1.1
> Host: 192.168.11.1
> User-Agent: curl/7.55.1
> Accept: */*

3. The response from the router
* HTTP 1.0, assume close after body
< HTTP/1.0 302 Found
< Location: /cgi-bin/home.ha
< Set-Cookie: SessionID=15793102602ad2397daec0c738cae4aa; Version=1;
Discard; HttpOnly; Path=/
< Pragma: no-cache
< Cache-Control: no-cache, no-store, must-revalidate
< Expires: 0
< X-Frame-Options: deny
< X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff
< X-XSS-Protection: 1; mode=block
< Content-Type: text/html
<
<html><meta http-equiv=Refresh content=0;url=/cgi-bin/home.ha>
<body></body></html>

As you can see, the router issued a 302 Redirect back to curl. In this
case, it's not a redirect to https, but rather a redirect to a specific
URL. Curl doesn't follow redirects by default, but if I access the
router with a browser the redirect happens automatically and
transparently.

So in your case, it would be cool to see which device is responsible for
trying to get you to use https. If it's the router, it would affect
every browser unless you managed to configure a browser to ignore it.

The relevant lines from the response are these two:
< HTTP/1.0 302 Found
< Location: /cgi-bin/home.ha

If the router is redirecting you to use https, the HTTP Response code
will be the first clue, the Location header will give the updated URL,
and the HTML body will/may duplicate what the Location header said. If
you see a Response code of 200, there is no redirect happening.

On 04/02/2023 07:01, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 03:55:22 -0000 (UTC), Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-04, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>>> Use a web browser and log into the router by visiting one of the
>>> following destinations:
>>>
>>> http://192.168.1.1
>>> http://www.routerlogin.net
>>> http://www.routerlogin.com
>>
>> The problem I was having turned out to be, I think, that Firefox was hiding
>> the dialog box which required an interaction from me, but SRWare Iron
>> showed it. Without that dialog box, I couldn't log in with Firefox.
>
> That sounds like a Firefox misconfiguration. Correcting that, or using
> any other browser, should have worked.
>
> snip <
>

Thank you.
That explains the problems getting a log in page to my TP-Link AC1200
(Archer VR 400) router with Pale Moon.
Sometimes the log in page won't show & other times it takes several minutes.
Other browsers work fine.

--
Regards
wasbit

On 5/2/2023 3:55 am, Shadow wrote:
> --
> Don't be evil - Google 2004
> We have a new policy - Google 2012
> Google Fuchsia - 2021

Well... ;)