There's a lot of spam being sent to this group now. It is unfortunate because this has been the best place for these discussions. Are people going anywhere else? I'm trying to report the spam.

Bill,

I agree. This is the best place for these discussions.

Andy mentioned a few of the alternate places, but they certainly have
their negatives for our type of technical topics.

What amazes me is that many of those who frequent the 'other' places
seem completely unaware of the Apple II specific newsgroups. Or, maybe
they are aware and just don't care for the likes of guys like me. ;-)

I'm hopeful (without cause?) that these spammers will go away like that
last batch of spammers who were hitting us in the Italian language.

It's hard to believe that any of those spammers deliver results for
whomever 'hires' them.

Hugh Hood

On 12/2/2023 8:57 AM, Bill Chatfield wrote:
> There's a lot of spam being sent to this group now. It is unfortunate
> because this has been the best place for these discussions. Are
> people going anywhere else? I'm trying to report the spam.

> There's a lot of spam being sent to this group now. It is unfortunate
> because this has been the best place for these discussions. Are people
> going anywhere else? I'm trying to report the spam.

When I use Google Groups, I receive tons of spam in both comp.sys.apple2 groups. I started using EternalSeptember and I don't see a single one. I guess EternalSeptember pulls out the spam? AstraWeb is good too, but ES is free. I personally pay ES a couple of times year (small donation) because they provide such a great service. I remember the italian-language spam that was mentioned, and reported those to Google Groups like a zillion times. All it seemingly accomplished was leaving huge gaps in the inbox. I'm now using SNAP on an AppleIIgs and couldn't be happier with it!

On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 10:55:26 PM UTC-5, TRS-90 wrote:
> When I use Google Groups, I receive tons of spam in both comp.sys.apple2 groups. I started using EternalSeptember and I don't see a single one. I guess EternalSeptember pulls out the spam? AstraWeb is good too, but ES is free. I personally pay ES a couple of times year (small donation) because they provide such a great service. I remember the italian-language spam that was mentioned, and reported those to Google Groups like a zillion times. All it seemingly accomplished was leaving huge gaps in the inbox. I'm now using SNAP on an AppleIIgs and couldn't be happier with it!
What is SNAP?

"Bill Chatfield" wrote:
What is SNAP?

SNAP is a Usenet client written by Speccie (available for free on his website) that works on an Internet-enabled Apple IIgs system.

I'm using it to post this message from a IIgs. No modern PC required.

> I think it's an attempt to game Google's search engine by putting lots
> of stuff into Google Groups.
>
> John

I agree there's some kind of difference between client access and browser access. I do not, however, have the CS backgound to understand that difference. Maybe someone with more knowledge could help with understanding?

> "Bill Chatfield" wrote:
> What is SNAP?
>
> SNAP is a Usenet client written by Speccie (available for free on his website) that works on an Internet-enabled Apple IIgs system.

Here you are, and check out all my other goodies while you are there:

https://speccie.uk/software/snap/

By the way, many people seem to think Usenet and this group has something to do with Google. That is not the case. Usenet is the grown up version of the BBS systems that started over 40 years ago now. If you post a message to one Usenet news server, it is migrated automatically to all the other news servers on the net. Google is just one method of accessing these messages. Many of us will use news clients on a computer of their choice. On the IIgs, SNAP does that, and on the Mac, I used to use Thoth, but am now using Hogwasher.

If you do not use Google to access Usenet, then you will need to either use a free news server, or one that you are subscribed to. Currently I am using Astraweb, as of the paid for servers, they are about the cheapest one out there at the moment, have good speeds, and have been reliable for me over the years.

Cheers - Speccie

On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 3:34:26 AM UTC-5, Speccie wrote:
> > "Bill Chatfield" wrote:
> > What is SNAP?
> >
> > SNAP is a Usenet client written by Speccie (available for free on his website) that works on an Internet-enabled Apple IIgs system.
> Here you are, and check out all my other goodies while you are there:
>
> https://speccie.uk/software/snap/
>
> By the way, many people seem to think Usenet and this group has something to do with Google. That is not the case. Usenet is the grown up version of the BBS systems that started over 40 years ago now. If you post a message to one Usenet news server, it is migrated automatically to all the other news servers on the net. Google is just one method of accessing these messages. Many of us will use news clients on a computer of their choice. On the IIgs, SNAP does that, and on the Mac, I used to use Thoth, but am now using Hogwasher.
>
> If you do not use Google to access Usenet, then you will need to either use a free news server, or one that you are subscribed to. Currently I am using Astraweb, as of the paid for servers, they are about the cheapest one out there at the moment, have good speeds, and have been reliable for me over the years.
>
> Cheers - Speccie
Thank you so much for the info. I understand what Usenet is. I was reading it in 1992. But for the longest time I have not been able to find a Usenet server other than just using Google Groups. They have all disappeared. My Apple IIgs is in a box in the basement. I have my Apple IIe setup, but I had to move it because my house guests' cats were using it to jump up on top of my china cabinet. I don't have room to set everything up. As soon as they leave, maybe I can get the IIgs out. I'll have to buy the Uthernet card for it. I have it already for the Apple IIe, but they use different firmware. I haven't used it though. Maybe it will be more useful on the IIgs.

On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 9:32:57 AM UTC-5, Bill Chatfield wrote:
> On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 3:34:26 AM UTC-5, Speccie wrote:
> > > "Bill Chatfield" wrote:
> > > What is SNAP?
> > >
> > > SNAP is a Usenet client written by Speccie (available for free on his website) that works on an Internet-enabled Apple IIgs system.
> > Here you are, and check out all my other goodies while you are there:
> >
> > https://speccie.uk/software/snap/
> >
> > By the way, many people seem to think Usenet and this group has something to do with Google. That is not the case. Usenet is the grown up version of the BBS systems that started over 40 years ago now. If you post a message to one Usenet news server, it is migrated automatically to all the other news servers on the net. Google is just one method of accessing these messages. Many of us will use news clients on a computer of their choice. On the IIgs, SNAP does that, and on the Mac, I used to use Thoth, but am now using Hogwasher.
> >
> > If you do not use Google to access Usenet, then you will need to either use a free news server, or one that you are subscribed to. Currently I am using Astraweb, as of the paid for servers, they are about the cheapest one out there at the moment, have good speeds, and have been reliable for me over the years.
> >
> > Cheers - Speccie
> Thank you so much for the info. I understand what Usenet is. I was reading it in 1992. But for the longest time I have not been able to find a Usenet server other than just using Google Groups. They have all disappeared. My Apple IIgs is in a box in the basement. I have my Apple IIe setup, but I had to move it because my house guests' cats were using it to jump up on top of my china cabinet. I don't have room to set everything up. As soon as they leave, maybe I can get the IIgs out. I'll have to buy the Uthernet card for it. I have it already for the Apple IIe, but they use different firmware. I haven't used it though. Maybe it will be more useful on the IIgs.
I guess what I was thinking is that ISPs use to provide Usenet servers, but they don't anymore. I haven't had a reason to go to Usenet until my interest was again sparked for the old Apple IIs, which my wife insisted I get rid of 20 years ago and I had to buy new ones again when I decided I didn't care what she thought anymore. She's my ex now.

Hi Bill,

> I'll have to buy the Uthernet card for it. I have it already for the
> Apple IIe, but they use different firmware. I haven't used it though.
> Maybe it will be more useful on the IIgs.

Neither the Uthernet nor the Uthernet II have any firmware at all. Both
work equally well in both a //e and a IIgs. So if you don't use your
Uthernet (II) in your //e, you can simply put it in your IIgs.

Regards,
Oliver

> Neither the Uthernet nor the Uthernet II have any firmware at all. Both
> work equally well in both a //e and a IIgs. So if you don't use your
> Uthernet (II) in your //e, you can simply put it in your IIgs.

Yes. I have swapped Uthernet II between //e and IIgs many times before just getting another one so both are enabled. It's a very good product. I do recommend, though, if you decide to retrieve the IIgs from the basement, get yourself an accelerator if you want to go online with it. I use an AppleSqueezer, and that too is a very good product that is always being updated for better performance. Regarding being told to get rid of old stuff by a certain person and then having to re-purchase the same later on, I hear you man. I really do.

> There's a lot of spam being sent to this group now. It is unfortunate because this has been the best place for these discussions. Are people going anywhere else? I'm trying to report the spam.

The worst part is one can't report them or delete them til after viewing them. This is still really poor programming on Google's part or any newsreader for that matter.

Bill,

> But for the longest time I have not been able to find a Usenet server other than just using Google Groups. They have all disappeared.

There are still loads of servers out there, from the free ones that don’t do the binary groups, and the paid for ones that have all 111,000 groups. Type “news servers” into Google, and you will be flooded with results.

Of the paid for servers, the expensive but excellent Giganews is still there:

https://giganews.com

I use the cheaper Astraweb, which does not have all the frills of Giganews, but does have all the groups:

https://www.astraweb.com
Cheers - Ewen

Rob,

> The worst part is one can't report them or delete them til after viewing them. This is still really poor programming on Google's part or any newsreader for that matter.
But that is the nature of Usenet. There are no moderators for the groups, so anybody is free to post to them. Usenet has nothing to do with Google, as they are only involved as an optional client. It is up to the user to add rules to their client app to filter out anything they don’t want. You can usually tell by the Subject line what the message is about, so do not have to read it if you don’t want to.

Cheers - Speccie

On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 7:08:32 PM UTC-8, I am Rob wrote:
> The worst part is one can't report them or delete them til after viewing them. This is still really poor programming on Google's part or any newsreader for that matter.

In Google Groups on the web, when reading a group, you see a list of subject lines. At the left of each message is the posting account's icon. If you move your mouse over that, it turns into a checkbox. You can check all of the offending messages, then use the "report spam" at the top of the screen to report them all at once without opening them.

I don't know if it actually "reports" the spam or just semi-hides them, but it's nice to have them out of the way.

On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 3:12:30 AM UTC-5, Speccie wrote:
> Bill,
> > But for the longest time I have not been able to find a Usenet server other than just using Google Groups. They have all disappeared.
> There are still loads of servers out there, from the free ones that don’t do the binary groups, and the paid for ones that have all 111,000 groups. Type “news servers” into Google, and you will be flooded with results.
>
> Of the paid for servers, the expensive but excellent Giganews is still there:
>
> https://giganews.com
>
> I use the cheaper Astraweb, which does not have all the frills of Giganews, but does have all the groups:
>
> https://www.astraweb.com
> Cheers - Ewen
I found http://www.eternal-september.org yesterday. It is free and seems to work pretty well. I don't like either of the programs I've tried in Linux to access it though: Evolution and Thunderbird. Evolution is slow and the setup is way more complicated than it needs to be. Thunderbird's UI is terrible. I would like to try slrn, but I haven't figured out how to set it up yet. There is also Claws Mail, but I haven't figured out how to set that up either. I just have to get the IIgs out I guess. :-)

Bill Chatfield <billchatfield1@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 3:12:30 AM UTC-5, Speccie wrote:
>> Bill,
>> > But for the longest time I have not been able to find a Usenet server other than just
>> using Google Groups. They have all disappeared.
>> There are still loads of servers out there, from the free ones that don’t do the binary
>> groups, and the paid for ones that have all 111,000 groups. Type “news servers” into
>> Google, and you will be flooded with results.
>>
>> Of the paid for servers, the expensive but excellent Giganews is still there:
>>
>> https://giganews.com
>>
>> I use the cheaper Astraweb, which does not have all the frills of Giganews, but does
>> have all the groups:
>>
>> https://www.astraweb.com
>> Cheers - Ewen
> I found http://www.eternal-september.org yesterday. It is free and seems to work pretty
> well. I don't like either of the programs I've tried in Linux to access it though:
> Evolution and Thunderbird. Evolution is slow and the setup is way more complicated than it
> needs to be. Thunderbird's UI is terrible. I would like to try slrn, but I haven't figured
> out how to set it up yet. There is also Claws Mail, but I haven't figured out how to set
> that up either. I just have to get the IIgs out I guess. :-)

Well, don't give up on finding a client to read usenet with. There are
more out there.

The one I use on Linux probably ain't much of a suggestion for you,
because unless you already use `emacs`, you're unlikely to want to learn
it just to read newsgroups. I've been using its builtin `gnus` news
reader for years. In the past, I used `rn` (80s) and `nn` later on. I
might have used `tin`, which I see is still available for installation
on my Linux Mint system. It might be worth a shot?

--
Jerry jerry+a2 at jpen.ca

On 2023-12-04 14:32:55 +0000, Bill Chatfield said:

> On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 3:34:26 AM UTC-5, Speccie wrote:
>>> "Bill Chatfield" wrote:> > What is SNAP?> >> > SNAP is a Usenet client
>>> written by Speccie (available for free on his website) that works on an
>>> Internet-enabled Apple IIgs system.
>> Here you are, and check out all my other goodies while you are there:>>
>> https://speccie.uk/software/snap/>> By the way, many people seem to
>> think Usenet and this group has something to do with Google. That is
>> not the case. Usenet is the grown up version of the BBS systems that
>> started over 40 years ago now. If you post a message to one Usenet news
>> server, it is migrated automatically to all the other news servers on
>> the net. Google is just one method of accessing these messages. Many of
>> us will use news clients on a computer of their choice. On the IIgs,
>> SNAP does that, and on the Mac, I used to use Thoth, but am now using
>> Hogwasher.>> If you do not use Google to access Usenet, then you will
>> need to either use a free news server, or one that you are subscribed
>> to. Currently I am using Astraweb, as of the paid for servers, they are
>> about the cheapest one out there at the moment, have good speeds, and
>> have been reliable for me over the years.>> Cheers - Speccie
> Thank you so much for the info. I understand what Usenet is. I was
> reading it in 1992. But for the longest time I have not been able to
> find a Usenet server other than just using Google Groups. They have all
> disappeared. My Apple IIgs is in a box in the basement. I have my Apple
> IIe setup, but I had to move it because my house guests' cats were
> using it to jump up on top of my china cabinet. I don't have room to
> set everything up. As soon as they leave, maybe I can get the IIgs out.
> I'll have to buy the Uthernet card for it. I have it already for the
> Apple IIe, but they use different firmware. I haven't used it though.
> Maybe it will be more useful on the IIgs.

I didn't think Uthernet cards had specific firmware for IIe or IIGS.
I've only used an Uthernet II though, so my knowledge of Uthernet I is
more limited.

Alex

On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 5:38:48 PM UTC-5, Jerry Penner wrote:
> Bill Chatfield <billcha...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 3:12:30 AM UTC-5, Speccie wrote:
> >> Bill,
> >> > But for the longest time I have not been able to find a Usenet server other than just
> >> using Google Groups. They have all disappeared.
> >> There are still loads of servers out there, from the free ones that don’t do the binary
> >> groups, and the paid for ones that have all 111,000 groups. Type “news servers” into
> >> Google, and you will be flooded with results.
> >>
> >> Of the paid for servers, the expensive but excellent Giganews is still there:
> >>
> >> https://giganews.com
> >>
> >> I use the cheaper Astraweb, which does not have all the frills of Giganews, but does
> >> have all the groups:
> >>
> >> https://www.astraweb.com
> >> Cheers - Ewen
> > I found http://www.eternal-september.org yesterday. It is free and seems to work pretty
> > well. I don't like either of the programs I've tried in Linux to access it though:
> > Evolution and Thunderbird. Evolution is slow and the setup is way more complicated than it
> > needs to be. Thunderbird's UI is terrible. I would like to try slrn, but I haven't figured
> > out how to set it up yet. There is also Claws Mail, but I haven't figured out how to set
> > that up either. I just have to get the IIgs out I guess. :-)
> Well, don't give up on finding a client to read usenet with. There are
> more out there.
>
> The one I use on Linux probably ain't much of a suggestion for you,
> because unless you already use `emacs`, you're unlikely to want to learn
> it just to read newsgroups. I've been using its builtin `gnus` news
> reader for years. In the past, I used `rn` (80s) and `nn` later on. I
> might have used `tin`, which I see is still available for installation
> on my Linux Mint system. It might be worth a shot?
>
> --
> Jerry jerry+a2 at jpen.ca
I use to use emacs, but the companies I worked for (a long time ago) wouldn't install it, so I had to learn vi. I used tin for a while, a long time ago also.

On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 08:17:32 +0000
Speccie <someone@somewhere.com> wrote:

> Rob,
>
> > The worst part is one can't report them or delete them til after
> > viewing them. This is still really poor programming on Google's
> > part or any newsreader for that matter.
> But that is the nature of Usenet. There are no moderators for the
> groups, so anybody is free to post to them. Usenet has nothing to do
> with Google, as they are only involved as an optional client. It is
> up to the user to add rules to their client app to filter out
> anything they don’t want. You can usually tell by the Subject line
> what the message is about, so do not have to read it if you don’t
> want to.
>
> Cheers - Speccie
>

You have to click through multiple pages of junk to find the real
messages. Every newsreader I've tried besides google has filtered them
out, even when those newsreaders are broken in many other ways.

Bill Chatfield wrote:
>
> Every newsreader I've tried besides google has filtered them
> out, even when those newsreaders are broken in many other ways.

All of man's creations are necessarily broken in some way, and neither does
nature show us any worldly examples of perfection.

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-6, D Finnigan wrote:
> Bill Chatfield wrote:
> >
> > Every newsreader I've tried besides google has filtered them
> > out, even when those newsreaders are broken in many other ways.
> All of man's creations are necessarily broken in some way, and neither does
> nature show us any worldly examples of perfection.

That's only because man broke nature and natue cleans it up by sending hurricanes and tornadoes. :)

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 22:59:23 -0000 (UTC)
D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:

> All of man's creations are necessarily broken in some way, and
> neither does nature show us any worldly examples of perfection.

You apparently haven't read MY code yet. And when my cat curls his tail
it is a Fibonacci spiral. Haha

But, seriously, I guess that's a good point

On Sat, 2 Dec 2023 08:21:26 -0800 (PST)
fadden <fadden@fadden.com> wrote:

> https://www.reddit.com/r/apple2/ is one possibility, though it's more

I don't like reddit that much either. I don't understand why it is so
popular.

Which facebook groups are you guys on? I'm on these:

Apple II Software Enthusiasts
8-Bit Programming & Engineering
BASIC Programming Language
Apple II - GameZone!
Apple II Enthusiasts
Apple IIe Enthusiasts

I don't think any of these are as good as this Usenet group. You guys
are the best! :-)

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 09:58:37 -0500
Bill Chatfield <bill_chatfield@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Which facebook groups are you guys on? I'm on these:

I also highly recommend the Facebook group "Redheads". Haha :-) :-) :-)